John Kerry: "I never thought I would be reliving that question again"

[sabra]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-kerry_zuckmanjul23,1,3288818.story

<snip>

On the Senate floor recently, Kerry recalled his famous question before the Foreign Relations Committee in 1971.

"I never thought I would be reliving that question again. I never thought I would have parents of young Americans killed in Iraq look me in the eye and tell me: Senator, my son died in vain," said Kerry, quickly adding that no death is in vain when it is in service of the country.

...

Not infrequently, John Kerry says, he and a fellow Massachusetts Democrat, Sen. Edward Kennedy, drive to Arlington National Cemetery to attend a military funeral for a service member killed in war. Kerry says:

"You can see the precise military honor given to each of those soldiers, the flags draping the coffin rippling in the breeze. You can see the honor guard folding that flag meticulously into that sharp triangle of blue and white stars and then handing it to the loved ones, the wife, the mother, husband, father. Then hear those words -- 'On behalf of a grateful nation' -- and watch people crumble."

[freesqueeze]

1. Those who don't learn from history.....

blah blah blah...

I hate it when the cliche's come home to roost.

[wisteria]

2. Oh, how very sad.

This is one of the better articles I have read regarding Senator Kerry.

edited to add comment above.

[madokie]

3. John Kerry is one of our American Statesmens

[Bluerthanblue]

8. agreed. n/t

[Botany]

4. Damn

"You can see the precise military honor given to each of those soldiers, the flags draping the coffin
rippling in the breeze. You can see the honor guard folding that flag meticulously into that sharp
triangle of blue and white stars and then handing it to the loved ones, the wife, the mother, husband,
father. Then hear those words -- 'On behalf of a grateful nation' -- and watch people crumble."

[gratuitous]

6. That's en-ter-tain-men-n-nt!

Our country is so drunk on fairy tales of military power and honor, it's astonishing that we even notice the dead and the wounded. We're so enamored of our national religion of redemptive violence, that the casualties are swept away, and even when a guy who's been there talks about men and women dying in vain, he has to quickly qualify his comment because the True Believers will mark him as a Heretic and start preparing stakes and kindling.

Sometimes I despair that our country will never grow up.

[Raksha]

25. "Our national religion of redemptive violence..."

You came up with a stunningly accurate description in those words. I always like to compliment people for effective turns of phrase like that, because it helps to make the concept part of our consciousness. By accurately NAMING it, we begin to limit its power over us. This is an old magical precept, BTW, and I've seen it hold true in many contexts.

our national religion of redemptive violence

There's a lot to think about in those few words.

[bdamomma]

14. "a grateful nation?"

that is enough to make me do this :puke:

[Solly Mack]

5. you can keep that flag, thanks

[GOTV]

7. No death is in vain when when it is in service of the country, but ...

... although these soldiers are serving their country, what they were asked to do does not serve the country's interests.

So, regardless of their individual motivations, didn't they die in vain?

[Ghost in the Machine]

9. No, they didn't die in vain. They didn't choose their mission.

I take it you've never been in the service??

[madokie]

10. plus a large percent of them enlisted when it wasn't yet bush*/cheney's*

perpetual war.

[Botany]

11. Many joined after 9/11 and were sold the lie.

"They" did not die in vain ... they were with their friends around them and so
their death had meaning.

The mission is what is in vain.

[GOTV]

13. That seems like a distinction without a difference. Their sacrifice was squandered by Bush...

... how that is not a death in vain, I don't get.

[Botany]

15. Because .....

.... they will live on in the souls of their friends who were around them when they died
or when their body was found. 10, 20, 30, 40, & 50 years from now a comrade will
remember them in one way or another.

[GOTV]

16. So a death is not in vain if the person is remembered? Again, not my understanding of the word....

... To me a death is not in vain if the goal was one worthy of their life. That is, it would be better to have the goal than the life. If Bush sent them to invade Canada, some would die, and those would have been wasted lives because defeating Canada does not further our interests.

Given your definition, is it even possible to "die in vain"? Or is it a meaningless phrase that has no application in the whole of humanity.

Can you name one person who has "died in vain"? I suppose you cannot because you'd have to remember the person to name them.

[GOTV]

12. Maybe we have different definitions of the word vain....

... but whether they had a choice seems immaterial. No soldier chooses their mission right? But a soldiers effort can still be squandered can't it? Isn't that a death in vain?

[Ghost in the Machine]

17. No, you are wrong. Completely wrong. The *mission* may be in vain,

but a soldiers death in combat is NEVER in vain, and I will not put up with you dishonoring our troops, my brothers and sisters, like that.

And you never did answer the question: Have you ever been in the service??

[GOTV]

18. Wow, GOP strawman arguments right here on DU...

... I don't think I am dishonoring the troops. I believe they served with all the honor and dignity of any soldier. But if you need to run the argument into the weeds so you can build a straw man, there's nothing I can do about that.

In world war 2 soldiers also died and their deaths were a horrible tragedy for their families as well as the nation. However, we can all look at what they were sent to do and agree that what they died for was worth dying for.

Is what Bush sent our soldiers to do worth dying for?

I don't know how someone who has any respect for the sacrifice of our soldiers can claim "but a soldiers death in combat is NEVER in vain". I think there are things they should NOT die for.

[Ghost in the Machine]

19. LMAO! You're a fucking fool... which also rhymes with tool..

you want to call me a right winger?? Get back over to freeperville, asshole.

And you STILL haven't answered if you have ever been in the service before. I suspect not. I suspect you're a coward and a chickenhawk

[GOTV]

20. But I know what words mean, and I know that "Support the troops" is a GOP favorite...

... for shutting down discussion as you're trying to do. Don't want to be mistaken for a freeper? Don't talk like one.

I still ask, what does it mean to die, or not die, in vain? If you can't or won't answer it, fine. But if you want to turn this into some kind of purity test to avoid the question, I'm not playing along.

I'm pretty sure the definition does not depend on my veteran status.

[Raksha]

26. How is it "dishonoring" them by saying they were 1000 times better

than the alleged "cause" they died for? How is it dishonoring them to say their lives, every single one of their lives...was worth at least 1000 times more than the fraudulent "cause" they died for?

[MNDemNY]

24. What then of military officers...

who have the right, no, obligation to resign their commissions rather then head an unconstitutional order.As some have done this, are they "chicken hawks"?

[glitch]

23. Not if their deaths are waking up Americans to the very real threat of Corporate Rule.

Not what they think they are dying for, but that is one possibly redeeming effect of their deaths.

[Spike89]

27. Ends and means not so simple

First, I never served, yet I do have an opinion. Soldiers that die in the line of duty never die in vain. They've died for a cause and an ideal...protecting their country. This doesn't depend on the country being right, worthy of that honor, or ultimately victorious. The war is a huge mistake, but it is a political mistake. The politicians have wasted lives, sacrifice, and tons of treasure, but those that serve never die in vain, they are a reminder that people can be idealists and there are ideals that can inspire people to sacrifice their very lives.

[Major Hogwash]

21. So, who will ask that question now?

Why won't they realize that while those men are dieing in Iraq, we're dieing in America with them.

Every time one of them is killed a little part of us goes with them.

We are becoming desensitized to death and war.
The Iraq War has been reduced to political slogans, yet no progress is made.

Bush has made the ultimate mistake of a President - he started a war we cannot win.

[GOTV]

22. I suspect we could have won the war, the real crime is that it was the wrong war....

... had we not conducted the war incompetently, had we sent people in in sufficient numbers with the proper equipment, had we not started rounding up innocent Iraqis and torturing them, had we put Iraqi's to work rather than American corporations, if we handn't run into Iraq acting like Yosemite Sam....

We might have won.

But that still wouldn't change the fact that it was the wrong war to be fighting in the first place.

To me that's the ultimate mistake, to take lives without reason.