My nephew is thinking about joining the military

[Mojorabbit]

My sis and her husband have asked me to speak with him about it. He is almost eighteen. If they say anything they know he will do the opposite as rebellion. I don't know how to approach this. Do you have any links or anything that will help me? I plan on taking him out for lunch somewhere and broach the subject then. Thanks.

[Maat]

1. Oh, there's a film that he needs to see.

It's through Church of the Brethren, I believe. I will look for it.

[Decruiter]

30. www.beforeyouenlist.org

www.beforeyouenlist.org \

Thanks to the AFPS .

Peace.

[Maat]

31. Thanks. That's very helpful.

Like I said, my daughter saw "The Ground Truth," and was shocked. It hits you that, if you enlist, the focus will be on learning to KILL the "enemy." Kids need to know that - and what you listed tells them that.

I'm bookmarking this thread - lots of helpful information. I believe that I might be facing this problem with MY nephew in the future.

[TahitiNut]

2. Visit a VA hospital. If all else fails: the Coast Guard.

:shrug:

[Bozita]

11. My buddy kept baiting his parents with joining the Marines.

Friends (me included) and family worked on him for a month.

Result:

He joined the Coast Guard.

Coast Guard, just one more way to avoid that ominous draft.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Show him this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18QOjXgLM_E

[Mojorabbit]

15. Thanks

this is good. I just am not sure how a suburban kid can relate. I guess I am looking at it from an age of 51. It seems to me he was just a toddler yesterday. He is so empathetic. I think Iraq would destroy him emotionally.

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. Why does he want to join?

Would be easier to consider avenues of advice once being able to consider his reasons first.

[Mojorabbit]

7. I am under the impression

recruiters got to him at school. He has no idea of what he wants to do in life yet. He is a real immature seventeen year old, will be eighteen in Nov...or I would not be so worried nor his parents.

[Whoa_Nelly]

24. Then ask him point-black why he wants to join

And listen. It may take a couple of lunch dates in a row to know how to approach him.

Use the first chat to listen more than anything. Let him tell you where you need to go on this with him to convince him to not join up.

[Whoa_Nelly]

34. Oops! Meant point-BLANK

Typo...sorry...

And am kicking this thread :kick:

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. In the end it's his decision.

If he is still unaware of the potential dangers involved or doesn't care, what's ;eft to say?

[TomInTib]

9. When you think about it...

The kid is almost 18.

This thing has been cooking since he was maybe 13.

And those recruiters have been striking the primal chord.

Way too young to suss it out.

Trust me.

I know.

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. When I was 18 I had a pretty good idea that Vietnam wasn't going to

work for me. It had been going on since I was about 7 or 8, and that was at a time where there wasn't the kind of easy flow of information that we have now. If that person is actually considering it in light of all of this, it'll be choice.

[Hissyspit]

6. You could get him this book:

http://www.10reasonsbook.com

http://www.imgred.com/

THE 10 REASONS

You May Be Killed

You May Kill Others Who Do Not Deserve to Die

You May Be Injured

You May Not Receive Proper Medical Care

You May Suffer Long-term Health Problems

You May Be Lied To

You May Face Discrimination

You May Be Asked to Do Things Against Your Beliefs

You May Find It Difficult to Leave the Military

You Have Other Choices

[EFerrari]

8. Ask him to go with you to the nearest VA hospital. And when he says no,

ask him how he'd cope with living there.

[TomInTib]

10. The kid is not quite 18.

He is fucking immortal.

Just ask him.

Trust me on this.

I was there, once.

[EFerrari]

14. Someday you have to meet my kids, Batman and the Boy Wonder.

lol

[AndyTiedye]

29. I Wasn't Ever There, It Seems

I never felt the least bit immortal, even when I was 18.
I knew that if I were sent to Vietnam I would come home in a box.

[Hissyspit]

12. "What The Recruiter Never Told You" ...

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/recruiter1.htm

Before you join, recognize the fact that a stint in the military is not civilian employment. It's not just like having a regular job. You can't just up and quit anytime you want to (See article, Getting Out of the Military).

You can go to jail just for being late for work. (Granted, it's unlikely that a commander would impose nonjudicial punishment, or court-martial action the first time you are late for work, but it would be entirely legal for him/her to do so -- See Article 86 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).) No matter how high your rank, no matter which service you join, there will always be someone telling you what to do, and when to do it. Many times you won't like or agree with your orders, but you take a solemn oath to "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the lawful orders of those appointed over you." Disobeying those orders can have serious consequences. If you can't live with this simple fact, save yourself and the government some valuable time and money, and don't enlist.

In a civilian job, if you don't like your boss, or don't like the job, you can simply quit. Not so, in the military. I get email all the time from recruits who just graduated basic training and/or technical school (job training), asking how they can "quit" the military. The short answer is that you can't -- unless it is for a valid hardship reason (i.e., someone in your immediate family is terminally ill, and your presence is required). The military can throw you out for several reasons, but you can't simply quit because you don't like it. If the military decides to throw you out (discharge you), the consequences of the discharge (depending on the type of discharge you're granted) can follow you the rest of your life.

If you like to smoke a joint once in a while, don't join. The military uses random, no-notice urinalysises, and -- if you're found positive, you may very well go to jail (as well as being discharged). The DOD urinalysis test can find THC in your urine for three weeks after you've smoked
a joint.

If you're homosexual, or bisexual, understand up front that you may not engage in homosexual activity while in the service (on or off duty), and you may not tell anyone of your homosexuality. To do so will result in an immediate discharge. While the military will not ask about your sexual preferences, neither are you allowed to tell anyone else that you are homosexual or bi-sexual while you are in the military. This is the infamous "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

MORE

[Mojorabbit]

22. Thanks

I can use some of this. I just don't know how far ahead he can think. He has never had a job. Just a regular kid. Plays video games, goes to the movies. Got his driver's liscense late ..only a year ago...

[Alcibiades]

13. Does he like his genitals?

One doctor in Iraq said he had to perform 1-2 surgeries a DAY to remove the mutilated genitals of soldiers. That's several thousand vets walking around today with no penis and no testicles, more than have been killed by the enemy. IED's can blow off arms and legs and rip through vehicles. They certainly can, and do, wipe a man's pubis clean of anything resembling external genitalia.

To an 18 year-old boy, death is so abstract, and dying a "hero's death" may even be somewhat romantic. But having your genitals blown off is something no boy of that age would want to risk, and the chance of that happening is not so remote in Iraq.

If all else fails, reccomend the Air Force or Navy. The Army and Marines are for folks unafraid of getting their balls blown off. I wouldn't even reccomend a so-called "non-combat" MOS in either the Marines or Army, as the casualty rate for support troops in Iraq is much higher than for other wars.

[Mojorabbit]

17. Thanks

I'll add this to my mental list. My side of the family is air force. My sis is a trauma nurse who did afghanistan and has issues from that but my nephew's dad was army in vietnam. He still cannot speak about that time to anyone to this day. You get a glimpse when he has had too much to drink but he is closed tight. He is scared to death his son will go to Iraq.

[Alcibiades]

25. My family's been Army since the revolution

a couple of sailors in there, too. Even if you get out of war unscathed physically, there are the dead friends, the slaughter, all that. My grandfather (bronze star and a whole bunch of other medals, WWII for the duration and Korea) never talks about his combat experiences. My dad was an Army aviator in Vietnam, and does tell his stories on occasion--that war destroyed my parents' marriage, because he wasn't the same man after his last tour.

I've brought up the issue of genital wounds on DU before. It's the one missing limb soldiers don't talk much about. It's sad that it's not a joke, it's all too real for these men and their families. I became interested (if that's the word) because of an event in my wife's family. One of her great aunts married a vet in the 1950's. She asked her priest after a year of marriage why she wasn't pregnant. After some questioning, the priest figured out they were not having sex because the veteran was incapable due to his war wounds. Incredibly, my wife's great aunt (Catholic, naturally) didn't really know the facts of human reproduction. To add insult to injury, the church wouldn't annul the marriage. They never said why, but I imagine they thought it was wrong, in the patriotic 1950's, to annul a vet's marriage because his wounds left him incapable of consummating it. My wife's aunt got a civil divorce and had to leave the church. I know it probably sounds apocryphal, but that's the tale I was told (including the vagueness about the extent of the vet's wounds in this case--it was reported only that he had only partial use of one of his legs and had to use a cane).

Good luck with your nephew. I cannot say in a blanket way that I would never recommend military service to any of my students. For many folks, it's a rewarding way of life, and it's put bread on my family's table for generations. With the endless tours, the redeployments, and the messed up character of this particular war, however, I would say that this is a bad time to be a soldier, marine or reservist.

[TomInTib]

19. They don't want to talk about this shit at all.

Like 'Betties' in our little dust-up.

Don't think about it.

Don't talk about it.

Just roll out that tube, brother.

They used to give 'em maybe an hour thing telling them how many problems they had avoided by not having a functioning penis.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Too late now for just a quick talk or movie recommendation...

the recruiters and others have had his ear for too long and he will just tune everything you say out if you try to change his mind.

However, you might be able to nudge him away from the Army or Marines and into the Navy. He will have been told many times by now that Real Men go into the Marines, but he may be convinced that a lot of Real Men go into the Navy, too. Like the Navy SEALs.

Being a Quaker and anti-military and all, I do find it difficult to recommend alternative military service, but reality is reality, and it looks like he's made up his mind. There are never any guarantees with this crew in the White House, but I would say that pushing him toward the Navy would be the best way to go for now.

If he does go for the Delayed Enlistment program, you all have a year to convince him of the error of his ways and he can get out of it very easily. Someone posted about this recently, but all the details are at www.objector.org.

[Mojorabbit]

20. Thanks!

This helps alot. I feel a lot of weight being asked to do this.

[Maat]

18. Please rent the DVD "The Ground Truth."

My ten-year-old saw it, and now understands that you are taught to kill. She also understands something about PTSD, and the lack of support for our injured veterans, thanks to the long narratives of the injured military personnel in the film.

That kid needs to see it, including being taught how to dehumanize an entire population (e.g. calling them 'ragheads' in drills). I wonder if he really wants to be a part of that. My kid didn't after seeing it.

[Mojorabbit]

21. Thanks

I'll add that to my list. I appreciate it.

[Maat]

26. Take care!

It was one of the most powerful films that I have ever seen.

Hey, Wiki has some info on the film: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_Truth_(film) .

[LibDemAlways]

27. I think a trip to the local VA hospital followed by

one to the nearest cemetery containing the grave of an Iraq war teenage statistic ought to get the point across that perhaps he ought to think about community college, trade school, or an entry-level job. The Bush Crime Family is only interested in turning young men like your nephew into cannon fodder. If you ultimately can't persuade him, at least you can take the suggestions here and know you did the best you could to get the truth across.

[Captain Angry]

28. My brother joined the Army after 9/11.

He assumed that he'd be going after the people that hit us.

5 years later, an extension, two tours in Iraq, an earned (but not fucking given) Purple Heart, other medals, etc., he is almost done. He's been guarding convoys recently.

It's hard to tell how he's doing since he only calls his wife once in a while, and won't call any of the family.

I'm truly worried that he was part of something over there that he's ashamed of. He called his wife a few weeks ago, and out of the blue said that he wants to move to another state as soon as he gets out. His friends, and family are all here. He doesn't know anybody in the state that he mentioned.

I'm worried. Tell your nephew to think about what he wants to be, and what reasons he has for wanting to join. If he wants to join for the right reasons, then you should support him. If he is hoping they will pay his way into something better, then he's greatly mistaken.

I met a kid here about that age a while back. He wanted to join up to go shoot Arabs. Period. I tried the normal logic questions, and none of them even glanced the surface. Your nephew should know that he will be around some wonderful people. But he'll also be around a lot of bad elements. For instance, the white supremacists that have been joining up for the bonus money, the free training, and the chance to shoot non-whites.

Good luck to both you, and your nephew, no matter what he chooses.

[annabanana]

37. Prayers for your Brother. .

I hope he gets (and takes) the kind of help he needs when he gets back.
:hug:

[mentalsolstice]

32. Best of luck to you

My husband's great-nephew has enlisted with the Marines and will be reporting next July after he finishes high school. I have a real bad feeling about the whole thing. This kid has been bounced around since he was born when his mother was sixteen. She has abandoned him numerous times. Then my SiL had guardianship of him for about 10 years, but she abandoned him when her husband said he had "raised his own two sons, and he wasn't interested in raising another one."

So he got bounced around some more until he ended up back with his mom and her new neocon husband. He got into JROTC at his new HS, and that combined with a home environment where all brown-skinned people are thought to be evil...He says he wants to go into infantry...wants to train as a sharp-shooter. And my in-laws are cheering him on, with the exception of my husband and myself. He's always been a troubled kid, so I'm hoping further psychological testing will show him to be unfit for duty...if the Marines are even worried about that sort of thing these days.

[NeedleCast]

33. Honestly, I think most of the suggestions in

this thread is going to get you dick-all in response. It's a bunch of hyperbole to an 18 year old. Instead of telling him much life is going to suck in the military, why not take a positive approach and extol the virtues of going to college? As a person who did both (military and college) if I had to pick one or the other, I'd pick college hands down. Not to say I didn't have a good time in the military, but there wasn't a war going on during the vast majority of my enlistment.

I'm not a parent, but I know plenty of people with kids who are nearing or have just turned 18. I know that you really couldn't communicate much to me when *I* was 18. The whole "OMG YOU ARE GOING TO GET YOUR NUTS BLOWN OFF!" argument would have rung very hollow with me.

Having been to Afghanistan, having seen villages full of scattered body parts after being cluster bombed, having had to shoot at people, after having been shot at...I have a whole file of mental images I'd rather not have. That being said it is *REALLY* hard to impart on someone who has not seen it live and in person how awful it is. In most cases I don't think it will be successful.

Like I said, personally, I'd try talking up the good options that are out there instead of telling how bad he's going to have it in the military.

[maggiegault]

35. Have him read this from the bottom upwards.

http://lauralinger.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html

And if he has any questions, he can email me privately at [e-mail]

[aikoaiko]

36. I think if he doesn't really want to go, then just about anything direct and sincere will work

But if he really wants to go, then scare tactics and politics won't do much.

All these people saying bring to VA hospital, pics of injured soldiers, or talk of nuts being shredded don't get that young men often join as a chance to show they are "men". Confronting them with scare tactics is tantamount to telling them they are not man enough to go - which of course will likely backfire.

Just my 2 cents.

[Deja Q]

38. If "nobody owes anyone anything", like certain right wing pundits claim...

If Republicans claim we need to stand united, the doofuses who've been saying "Nobody owes anyone anything" (and I'm not saying it, I'm simply quoting it) are the ones hurting troop morale.