Fellow DUers, may I please make a friendly suggestion?

[redqueen]

Could we please try to take it a bit easier on each other? Please?

There's an awful lot of dust ups in here... and I know that's nothing new really... but it does seem like it's getting uglier faster lately. Those of us who were here for the presidential primaries last time around know what we're likely in for, and it's not pretty.

In light of that fact, can we try to... gosh I hate to use this term, but... can we lighten up on each other a little bit?

I think a lot of this is related to stress. We're all so stressed. And who can say that's not a reasonable outcome after what we've been dealing with the past 6 years? And now that we have our party in a position to wield just a little bit of power, that stress has increased. Lots of people seem to think that's not how it should be, but I know I kinda saw it comin. And I think we all know it's not gettin any easier any time soon.

Stress and fear make us irritable... make us unhealthy... make us more susceptible to the kind of infighting that seems to be getting a little more prevalent around here.

So... I guess I'm asking can we please try to be a little more understanding with each other? A little more tolerant about our differences with each other?

I mean c'mon... we're all on the same team, really. It's in all our best interests to try to be as united as possible.

Isn't that what so many are bitching about in regards to the Dems on the Hill? That they need to be more united? Well that goes for us, too.

Just my humble opinion. Please don't flame me.

Peace.

:hi:

[JeffR]

1. Why you... why you...

reasonable person you.
;)

[Psephos]

2. Please post this about once a week. :-) n/t

[femmedem]

12. Every hour! n/t

[demnan]

3. Yes, excellent!

And while you're at it reach out in your local community to other concerned citizens who want to end the war, impeach for peace and save the environment. I've found some excellent local action and it really helps you to feel like you're accomplishing something. You don't have to take out your frustration here, put that energy to good use! :)

[swag]

4. Hi, redqueen.

[redqueen]

19. Hi swag.

:hi:

[itsmesgd]

5. Very true, We're one team with a lot of different players

We need to remember who our real enemies are.

[Ezlivin]

6. STFU

Sure, That's Friendly Understanding.

Let us leave character assassination and slander to the other side.

:thumbsup:

[MuseRider]

7. Spoken like a true

Kucitizen!

:hi: redqueen

[redqueen]

20. Heheheh

:7

:hi:

[mnhtnbb]

8. What? Be nice to each other!

Now there's an idea for the 21st Century.

[Bandit]

9. "we're all on the same team,"

If only that were true...There are many trolls and subversives on these political boards. They love to get people fighting among themselves. It will get even worse I am afraid but then when did DUers ever shy from a good ruckus?

[redqueen]

17. Yeah, I know...

all I can say is:

Hit alert!

[Vektor]

47. I love this little graphic.

May I "borrow" it for future use? :-)

[redqueen]

51. Feel free!

:hi:

[Beelzebud]

10. People like you make me SICK! How dare you!!!!1111

:)

All kidding aside, I think a lot of us (myself included) could benefit for reminding ourselves from time to time, that we're all on the same side when it comes to the fundamental issues.

I love you all. Even the ones I've jabbed with recently.

[Martin Eden]

11. Disagreement without Disrespect ...

... should be a simple concept, and widely practiced.

[Beelzebud]

13. The whole world would be so much better if that were practiced.

Thats a good sentiment. I'm going to try to keep that in mind.

[City Lights]

14. Can't we all just get along?

:hi:

[nolabels]

59. I'm as mad as Hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!

First watch this clip,

I'm as mad as Hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

[Katherine Brengle]

15. K&R - I've gotten in more heated arguments in the past few days than in my entire DU experience...

tensions are running particularly high right now.

However, it seems that way everywhere I've been lately, in real life and virtual life... maybe the moon is aligned weird or something.

[Cocoa]

16. live by the flame, die by the flame

[redqueen]

18. Or... ignore the flame?

Try to be understanding of those who flame us, and not escalate it by responding in kind?

:shrug:

[Cocoa]

22. that's a wise option

[saltpoint]

21. The people down the street are moving next month.

I've got first dibs on redqueen to be my new neighbor.

[Obamarama]

23. I agree with you, redqueen, but.....good luck.

I've found that the recent increase in population here at DU, the rate of hostility and lack of civility has increased as well. I remember a year...two years ago....we might see an occasional flame fest or rant from the bowels of hell.

Sadly, it seems to be a daily event these days, which is one reason I visit much less often. It seems that when I DO visit, there's some freakin' controversy over this or that post(s). On Sunday, after almost a two-week absence from DU, I posed a question that apparently had already been discussed at length on DU a week earlier or so.

The rudeness of some the responses were breathtaking. You would have thought I declared I was going to eat a live baby.

DU used to be a cool place to hang out with like-minded kindred spirits. Lately it just seems to raise my blood pressure.

[redqueen]

24. Yeah...

I think the stress is getting to all of us. It's my hope that we can learn to ignore such things... let them 'roll off our backs' if you will, and even support each other when we sense that stress is behind some unnecessarily harsh attack or what have you... so that we can start to become be more unified in spirit. Goodness knows we'll need that spirit of unity come primary season!

I hope you start thinking it's a cool place again soon. I know I sure do... for all its faults, I still love it!

:hi:

[eppur_se_muova]

25. We are Unitarian Jihad! Pockets of reasonableness and harmony will appear as if from nowhere!

I loved this column, thought it worth posting here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/08/DDG27BCFLG1.DTL

Don't forget to get your UJ name!
http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/jihad

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. It Does Seem To Be More Frequently A Battle Of Wits vs. Twits Nowadays. As A Member Of The Wits,

you have my word that I will try and tone it down a bit, since you asked nicely and are correct in your observation. :o)

I wish you luck with the twits though LOL

[redqueen]

28. Thank you!

:)

[Bonobo]

42. Oh man, you're a RANGERS fan too!

I friggin' hate the Rangers!

[Cerridwen]

27. Stop!

Breathe, *then* post. It usually works for me, ymmv. :D

We get a lot of different types of posters around here. Some have the stench of mole or troll about them. If I have a way to prove they are one of those, I'll alert. Otherwise I avoid 'feeding' them. Then we have a segment which appears to just like 'stirring the shit' just to watch chaos ensue (I have 4 uncles and a brother who like to push someone's buttons just for 'shits and grins'). I don't 'feed' them either. But we don't all, unfortunately, have perfect BS meters when reading a post. Mine fails me more than I like.

I think we're experiencing more, for lack of a better word, infiltration these days due to the fact that injured animals start flailing at anything and everything and I can think of no more injured animal than the 'backwash'. When they were 'in power' they were too busy patting themselves on the back for showing those 'damned, traitorous liberals' what it was to be a 'true American' and gloating, amongst themselves, that see, we really do speak for 'American values.' The recent election of a Democratic majority has shown them they are not 'all powerful' and that their message doesn't resonate with 'mainstream' Americans; that they *do not* speak for all America. Ouch! That's gotta hurt. Injury, pain then flail.

So, like all bullies who are confronted, they're looking for easy prey. Hell, what's easier than getting an account on a message board on the internet and typing anonymously until your fingers bleed. Especially if you take into account that they consider anyone who doesn't display their same type of 'gung ho,' 'rambo-like,' faux, tough 'patriot' as 'weak' and therefore, a potential victim, that is, easy prey.

As to the liberals who don't agree with me. Well, dammit! I'm just gonna have to educate 'em!


:rofl:

[ChickMagic]

29. OMG!!!

How could you? <runs from room sobbing, slams door, throws self face down on bed>
I think you're right - it's the stress of it all. We've got the media telling us who our candidate is, the congress isn't playing hardball with the pubbies, it's basically a nightmare.

[redqueen]

30. Hi ginbarn!

It's been a nightmare for a while now... we'll get through it. :hi:

[ChickMagic]

49. Hiya redqueen!

I personally think we all have PTSD. :hi:

[treestar]

31. Dennis Kucinich for President

Seems like a pretty good suggestion.

:hi:

[poiuytsister]

32. Amen to that

As a new poster I have been pretty surprised at the, shall we call it "snarkieness" amoungst people I thought were all pretty much on the same page. Might part of the problem being that some people read the OP and respond without reading the other posts? I find many times that there is further info down the line.

Peace.

[vickitulsa]

34. Wow, thanks for mentioning that!

I'm not exactly new here, for sure ... but then I'm not really an "oldtimer" at DU either. It's the only board or group online I continue to participate in after a lot of experience in various ones over the last 10 years. I find DU to be that good.

BUT, I have wondered time and again why so many here seem to be reading only the OP and then replying instead of reading the thread! I admit it's not easy when a thread is long already, but it just makes sense to me and might help us all avoid some of the fighting that turns so many off.

I know it's a bit of a tangent from this particular OP, redqueen, but can you perhaps elaborate on this situation a bit for me and poiuytsister?

[Dracos]

33. I agree 100%

I hope everyone will read your post and keep it in mind I am going to recommend your post hope others will also.:grouphug:

[lonestarnot]

35. Teams, we're dividing into teams? I'll take Johnnie Walker.

[liberal renegade]

44. black or red? n/t

[lonestarnot]

48. Well Blue of course!

[motocicleta]

36. Not to make a deletable suggestion, but

I do believe some of the venom lately has been from trolls and plants. I see too many of the most vicious posters having disabled profiles or WAY too many posts for the amount of time they have been registered. This is nothing new, but often in this pre-pre-pre-primary atmosphere it seems the trolls are more able to stir up trouble than, say, 6 months ago.

So I agree, and suggest that we all not only cut each other a little slack, but also don our suspicious hats while we're at it: if somebody seems a little off, we've always got the ignore button.

[The Straight Story]

37. I AM THE DECIDER - so I decided to K&R this fine post for ya :)

Peace, it's whats for dinner.

[tkmorris]

38. Agreed, 100%

Actually it would be nice if you could turn your post into a manifesto of sorts, and we could all sign on. Thanks a lot for posting this, and as others have said I would love it if you reposted it from time to time as a reminder.

[redqueen]

52. That is an interesting idea...

I'll have to think on that a while...

[OneBlueSky]

39. "Save the nation . . . save the world" . . . that's ALL we should be discussing . . . n/t

“It’s a red alert about the situation the world is in now. We’re wasting our time on this fairy tale war, when the real war is with God’s creation. Nobody’s fighting for God’s creation.” Joni Mitchell, February, 2007

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=126587&mesg_id=126587

[donkeyotay]

72. The enormity of it all is mind-numbing

“My heart is broken in the face of the stupidity of my species,” she said. “I can’t cry about it. In a way I’m inoculated. I’ve suffered this pain for so long. We were expelled from Eden. What keeps us out of Eden?” She thought about this for a moment before riffing on a Dylan line: “I tried to tell everybody, but I could not get it across.”

“Well, I’m being more specific now,” she allowed. “The West has packed the whole world on a runaway train. We are on the road to extincting ourselves as a species. That’s what I meant when I said that we’ve got to get ourselves back to the garden.”

I am so livid about the political situation that I no longer even call my representatives because I'm afraid I'll start shrieking at them and say something that'll have the fbi at my door. I am so angry, and it's not about what happened today or last week or last year - I've been in the silenced minority now for decades - our government and our society on a steady progression to FUBAR. One election we had Ross Perot to sop up the unhappiness. We had the one where people were worried about the money in politics, so we had the fucking joke of McCain-Feingold. Then we had the Greens, so now some dems want to exploit that as the fault... and through it all nothing has gotten done about the corruption that our system is. It's like distracting a toddler with a toy. I am just furious at how the whole thing is manipulated and nothing gets done to take us on a better course.

Someone up-thread mentioned PTSD? When the hell do we get to the "post" part.

[OneBlueSky]

77. it truly is mind-boggling . . . which is why so many Americans tune it out . . .

hell, just keeping minimally informed about what's happening is damn near a full-time job these days . . . working people who only have time to get their news from their local paper or from the network anchors have no chance . . .

[eridani]

40. What we are trying to do--

--is to turn a battleship around with an outboard motor. No wonder we're stressed. (Now, if we could get hundreds of thousands of them all pointing in the same direction.........)

[redqueen]

53. ahahahahahaha

I love your analogy!

That's my whole intent with this thread, really... to try to help make it so that more of them are going in the same direction more often!

:hi:

[Faux pas]

41. You said it all perfectly. K & R and this thread should be

kept at the top of the page for perpetuity.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: and a Snap!

[hfojvt]

43. "take it easy on me

it should be easy to see
I'm getting lost in the crowd
hear me crying out loud
just want you to know
I know that you have to go
it's all up to you, but whatever you do
take it easy on me." Little River Band

Not sure if this is true, but a preacher once talked about wild horses vs. wild asses. When wild horse are threaten they put their heads together and kick the crap out of whatever is threatening them. When wild asses are threatened, they put their tails together and kick the crap out of each other.

I am not sure if I see a huge difference. My initiation to DU was not smooth and many of the people I argued with then have bit the dust or moved on. The Tookie wars were vicious, as was the battle over immigration, and the Israeli invasion of Lebanon was a war here too. Not to mention Jasongate and so on. The much missed William Pitt posted a while back that GD had gotten almost as bad as the primaries and did not seem happy when I linked to a post from August of 2003 where he declared that GD had become a sewer!! The more things change, the more they stay the same.

But I continue to wish for a kinder world and an increase in love and understanding.

[redqueen]

54. We won't ever be in complete harmony on every issue...

and those issues that arouse strong feelings will always cause strong disagreements.

I don't expect that to change, I'm not that naive. I'm only hoping that I can encourage some people to possibly make some of those strong disagreements less inflammatory... less 'contagious' if you will. I'm sure that's a horrible way to put it, but... best I can do just now. I'm only on my first cup of coffee, so... mea culpa for the poor wording and horrible punctuation.

:hi:

[rosesaylavee]

45. Agreeing to disagree with respect

is a good idea.

[WilliamPitt]

46. Your candidate sucks, my candidate rules.

Aaaaaahhhh... ;)

:toast:

[redqueen]

55. Well, but... that is actually true, though. Can't argue with facts.

That's logic!

;)

:hi:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

50. Breathe breathe

I don't post often but this issue brought me out of my lurkiness. Maybe I shouldn't have done that.

It was a philosophical question begging to be asked and answered. Reminded me of my classes at BU's College of General Studies, my philosophy teacher would ask questions that had us arguing to the point of semantics. Very interesting.

Unlike my classes, I know I've been put on people's ignore list (I haven't received any responses yet from my most recent posts). Ah well.

[redqueen]

56. Which issue?

You're not on my ignore list. I don't have anyone on my ignore list.

:hi:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

60. Not on the Candy issue but

in class, We would argue about paintings, etc. "Why do you see that? It's not even there! You're just dreaming!" sort of argument. My teacher wanted us to have a different perspective on each issue, pro or con.

He knew what our generic answers would be and hoped for a different perspective, even if it was an unpopular one (For example, he asked us, "What do you think of T.S. Eliot as a writer?" We all did the generic answers, "Oh he's a good writer. I really got his deep understanding... blah blah blah." Then he went on to say, "What if I told you he was an Anti-Semite?" You could really hear the pin drop in that classroom (this was the age before Wikipedia, the Year 2000). It was a very interesting discussion on Eliot).

I really owe him that, as I use his methods of discussion sometimes with my friends. We do end up arguing but in the end I say, "Hey, I'm still your friend, I'm just interjecting a different point of view that could be used in any discussion forum!"

Makes for a good discussion outside of the computer. I cannot say the same for message boards on the computer, though.

[redqueen]

62. Yes, well...

my hope is that although we'll never be rid of flame wars, that we can maybe at least agree to try to help reduce the severity... and maybe even frequency.

[Dastard Stepchild]

57. Point well taken, but...

to trot out a trite observation... people get plenty powerful behind the anonymity of their keyboards. I think that message boards, by nature of there being no face-to-face interaction, will always be a few degrees more nasty than in real life. I know that is no excuse, but I really think it just comes with the territory. In the many years I have participated on message boards, this is the one constant: people will say things to me online that they would never say to my face.

I don't think it is stress, really, though maybe that plays a part. Anonymity, I think, is the main reason why we are able to tear into each other in disrespectful ways. I'm not entirely sure how to overcome that.

But it's certainly worth making the effort. :)

[redqueen]

63. Yes... I think it is, too.

Good point about anonymity... that's a much larger issue and goes for all forums... whether it's a stressful time for us in particular on activist forums or something as seemingly safe as a gardening forum for goodness' sake. :crazy:

[bridgit]

58. works for me rq, but according to lots & lots of people here that's what dems do...

fight, argue endlessly without resolution, roll-over/play dead in the face of opposition, rank & belittle each other while eating their own flesh :shrug: it has always seemed stupid *and* idiotic to me

witness your having to include, "Please don't flame me." :pals: :hug:

[redqueen]

65. Well I sure don't subscribe to that notion...

Anyone who's read any of the stuff on that crazy (in a bad way) site for any time at all sees they're just as likely to do the circular firing squad thing. I think the main difference is their leadership / elected reps have become more disciplined about it.

And heh... well I was kinda joking about the 'don't flame me'... I've been around a while and I can take the heat! (And sometimes not get riled and respond in kind, even! :P)

:hug:

[bridgit]

68. yes'im...

:hug:

[salin]

61. I cringe as I write this, but... I get the feeling that this primary season

will make our last DU primary season seem like we were all sitting around singing Kumbaya. I don't know if you recall - but I was a voice that tried to call for some respect for one another supporting different candidates -as we really would need to work together afterwords. Point being - I think folks are even more emotionally charged this far out infront of the primary than was the case four years ago (and for good reason - there have been so many additional assualts upon 'we the people' comps of bushco since then) that I think the divisiveness is going to be so much worse this time around.

we better strap in its going to be a bumpy flight!

:hi:

[redqueen]

66. Yeah, I have that expectation as well...

and if you were one of the voices of reason last time, well then I'm sorry I was one of the people who made your help necessary! :blush:

I promise I'll be better this time, honest! :patriot:

[salin]

69. Maybe once or twice

;-) But I understood your frustration - irrc Dennis was continually ignored by the media - and then also (b/c media blips often drive GDP discussions) in the forums. Besides you were always able to move from a flamewar into very civil and informative conversations :-) It is *that* ability (to move back to conversations) that folks will need to learn - as from time to time the passions will flare up - that is natural - but can we then cool off and get back to discussing (and then learning from one another) - you did that well.

And please nudge me on the shoulder and give me a pssst in the ear when I, too, fall into flamewar mode. :D

[treestar]

64. You try to be nice, but some people are so emotional

And can't seem to keep it in. I guess it saves them on shrink bills or something.

"How Dare you Bring up this topic or these issues" responses get me wanting to say maybe these people just need to take a break from DU for a while. People can be so nasty to you just for raising an issue.

And if you read free republic, they are nicer to each other generally, but that is because of right wing lock-step, which I am not sure is a good thing.

[redqueen]

67. No, I don't think they're nicer generally.

And maybe our being liberal in attitude makes us more susceptible to our emotions in general... I dunno.

I see how you might want to kindly suggest that they take a break, but maybe that's not really what's needed. Maybe some extra compassion and understanding might help more? That's what I was thinking when I wrote that up there, anyway. That we cut those being nasty some slack, and handle the situation in a way that more effectively diffuses the issue (that seems wrong, but I can't quickly figure out which is right, diffuse or defuse... so... mea culpa), rather than in a way that might be equally intended to vent a bit of our own roused anger or frustration, so that despite our genuine desire to diffuse the issue, we end up escalating it. I hope that made sense.

[TahitiNut]

70. It's a bit more complicated, I think. First, it's always that other person,

I'd wager that the vast majority of folks who've replied agreeably in this thread (including myself) think it's the "other person who starts it." I'm becoming convinced that folks don't recognize when they've (we've?) stepped over the line. For me, that "line" is when a post in reply to mine has "you" as the subject. At that point, it's become personal rather than topical. Almost invariably, the tone is inquisitorial and the strategy is "gotcha!" The pretense of "let's reason together" or "help me understand your perspective" is abandoned and it's clear that armies of straw men are out in force and anyone who moves will be assaulted.

We seem to have folks on DU whose mental powers are so awesome that they can divine the intent and motives of other DUers whom they've never once met and whose forum interactions, in real life, would take no more than about 5 minutes in real life.

I really don't think the distinction between "message-focused" and "messenger-focused" is rocket science. For some, it seems, an attack on the 'message' (their opinion or post), no matter how diligently focused, is uequated to an attack on themselves. I guess we've all, at some time in our lives, invest our egos in our opinions and workproducts. Most of us grow out of it. Eventually.

At one time, I never replied to insults or name-calling. I just Alerted and went on. Now I tend to respond in kind. After five years, I guess I've just lost patience.

[redqueen]

73. It doesn't matter who starts it, though.

I know it happens, and I doubt it will ever stop entirely.

Of course it's not rocket science... but even the most intelligent and best-intentioned people who ever lived forget the most basic things from time to time. I am only saying let's try to keep that in mind, and be more understanding about negativity and hostility. Expect it, try to deal with it in the best way possible, and move on.

I must say that I do resent that you seem to be inferring that losing your temper over things for irrational reasons is something people shold be expected to just "grow out of". We are not robots, we are humans, and we make mistakes. For habitual offenders or those intentionally trying to create problems, the alert key is always there.

Peace.

[northernsoul]

71. I've been noticing a lot more pissy responses lately

and not just to pure, unadulterated flame-bait - but to fairly innocuous statements that 99% of all DUers could agree with. It almost seems like people are looking for something, anything somebody else says that they can get indignant about and lash out over. As a wise man once told me: Dude, you must chill.

Peace, y'all.

[redqueen]

74. That's exactly what I attribute to rising stress levels.

It's not the cause 100% of the time, I'm sure. But I'm pretty near convinced it is the case a great deal of the time (not including trolls of course).

[nam78_two]

75. Agreed & guilty -K&R- 6 years of that idiot in the WH can do that

I find myself getting pissier at people on the same sid over trivialities when in reality its the Repukethug criminals in power that are really pissing me off...

Lashing out at whatever is nearest I guess :-/.....

[redqueen]

76. Yes...

It's understandable...that's what I think anyway.

:hug: