John Edwards, You Are Something Else.

[David Zephyr]

John Edwards, all is forgiven.

Any search of the DU archives will reveal just how hard I've been on poor John Edwards for years here over his support of the Iraqi War Resolution. But that day is done. Done.

John Edwards, in his Meet the Press interview, simply blew me away with his humble and sincere acknowledgment of his mistake. In fact, I don't remember in all my many years seeing such a thing: a politician admitting frankly that he made a serious mistake and refusing to make defenses for it.

Recently, Senator John Kerry, did the same thing. It's too bad that Hillary Clinton still hangs on to defending her vote and her outrageous support of Bush's illegal war with only a minor, perfunctory criticism here and there. No wonder Ralph Nader is threatening to run should she become the party's nominee.

In any event, I may be in Wes Clark's corner, but you won't hear me carping about John Edwards anymore.

Every supporter of John Edwards can be very proud of their candidate. He's off to a great start already and his kicking off his campaign in New Orleans was the best place to do so.

And, of course, having Elizabeth at his side doesn't hurt one bit either.

I will be as proud and happy with either Senator Obama or Edwards as I would be with my first choice of General Clark as our Party's nominee.

Our Party has not been on better footing in decades. Howard Dean is doing a great job as our Chair and I am very proud to be a Democrat these days.

Senator Edwards, all is forgiven. Now here's hoping you tear up the Bush Administration with that hot populist rhetoric as only you can!

[illinoisprogressive]

1. I'm an Obama supporter but, I'm glad you have figured things out and

found someone you could get behind.

[Horse with no Name]

2. Okay. Here is my problem.

I have never had a problem supporting Edwards.
Until the interview.
He said he wouldn't support gay marriage.
I am tired of the disenfranchisement of certain groups.
We have to demand that our leaders stop buying into the wedge issues.
The better answer would have been that while HIS own conscious didn't agree with gay marriage--fortunately he wasn't serving his own interests but those of ALL American citizens regardless of age, race, gender, or sexual orientation.
That is the statement I wanted to hear and would have earned him my wholehearted support.

[David Zephyr]

4. I'm gay and found his responses acceptable.

He supports civil rights for gays and lesbians.

He supports civil unions with all the same rights as heterosexual couples.

When asked if he, as a Southern Baptist, believed that homosexuality was a "sin", he answered without a dodge with a very clear "No."

He said that while he is not an "expert on sexual orientation" he felt that it probably was not a choice or preference, but an innate part of one's being from birth.

His wife is also extremely positive for gay and lesbian rights.

[FreeState]

35. Im gay and I do not find it acceptable

He supports civil unions with all the same rights as heterosexual couples

Civil Unions do not give all the rights of marriage - if he was sincere in his statement he would have said he would make "Civil Unions" a FEDERAL issue - that is the only way they would be equal.

[Lisa0825]

40. I think straight "marriages" should be civil unions unless

they involve a religious ceremony. For legal purposes, all marriages should really be civil unions, and the term marriage should refer to religious ceremonies for those for whom it would be meaningful.

[FreeState]

46. Except Marriage is Civil

Ever been to a wedding? By what authority are the two people married? (Hint: it's not the church)

[Lisa0825]

57. Yes, and I have seen people "married" by a JP too.

They are just as married without the religious trappings. I think a lot of people are hung up on the religious part of it, and keeping the two parts of the deal separate would alleviate some of the conflict. For example, I have read a few LTTE that expressed that marriage is a sacrament, and they didn't want churches being forced to perform gay marriages. Of course, that is hogwash, but separating the legal act from the church ceremony could diffuse that part of the conflict.

I know it is an unrealistic wish, but I just think there should be a difference between the terminology of being married in a religious ceremony and being legally united. One could do both at once (being married by an ordained religious figure) or choose to only be legally united by an authority with the power to do so. I'm straight, and I would opt for the civil union, since I lost my religion a while back. But I know there is no changing it because it is too ingrained in society.

[Fovea]

37. Since 1974 I have been performing Pagan marriage

ceremonies. I have handfasted several same sex couples.
I hope for equal marriage as part of the Dem platform in 08.

Having had one of those marriages end with the death of one partner, I can be content with civil unions if they can take the nightmarishness out of being the gay partner of someone dying.

If we can come out squarely for equal marriage would show leadership, courage, and humanity. And dare I say it, it would show compassion.

Sure, it would be drawing a line in the sand. But this is a fight we should be fighting, IMO.

[Bucky]

38. I'm with you 100%

Thank you for offering your blessings onto all the marriage ceremonies you perform. I have a gay daughter and she wants to be married one day. I hope to see that happen. But I have to recognize that this is an acceptance that must overtake the country from the coasts inward. It's going to take a generation to shift hearts and minds on this. It's not pleasant to contemplate, but many gay citizens are going to have to accept half measures, like civil unions, will be the best successes they can achieve and maintain for the time being. This sucks; this hurts my family in particular. But you gotta move the Overton Window really far before this idea can come to life. We will have to ask our gay brothers and sisters to compromise how they can celebrate their loving unions for a few seasons so that we can work on saving the planet and ending the Bush wars first.

[Fovea]

43. If, before I leave this world

I am a parent, I hope to be a nurturing and supportive parent like you.

I understand the Overton Window well. The degree of public acceptance of my religion came
by ratcheting the window upward and letting a bit of light into the broom closet.
It has been by no means a smooth process.

[dsc]

3. what was your opinion of the sin answer combined with the gay marriage answer

I found his logic there difficult to follow.

[David Zephyr]

7. I just mentioned that above while you were posting, dsc.

I thought it was clear. He was raised a Southern Baptist where the theology says homosexuality is a "sin". Tim Russert asked Edwards if he thought it was a "sin". Edwards, without any quibbling, answered "no".

This is an honest man and a good man. That interview will stick in my mind for years at how he owned up to his IWR mistake. Every time Russert gave him a chance to defend himself about the vote, Edwards would repeat that he couldn't and wouldn't defend his mistake.

I'm off his case now. And I really like his wife, too.

[dsc]

8. The problem I have is that if it isn't a sin

what is the reason for the discrimination. I would have preferred him to say the country wasn't ready or something like that. I will give him that he has grown in our direction since last time.

[David Zephyr]

11. I think that he pretty much said that, dsc.

He said he wasn't "there" yet with gay marriage, but was with civil unions.

Honestly, to me (and I've posted about this already here before) the word "marriage" is a highly charged religious term. I don't care one bit about calling my 33 year union a "marriage". I understand that others do and I respect that, but bringing the entire nation along about a "cultural" term when couples can have all the same legal rights (and I mean all) is not the hill that I care to die on.

I admire Edwards for his candor and honesty. He would be a great president for all Americans, be they gay, straight, red, yellow, black, white, young and old, male or female.

[dsc]

29. I am without a candidate this time

Dean and Gore aren't running and I actually doubt that Clark will run either. Of those that I think will run I am favoring Richardson due to his experience. I will vote for whomever is nominated.

[Fovea]

36. Richardson has good foreign policy CV.

I hope that Edward's can get behind equal marriage too.

I do believe that this time, Kucinich is getting more serious attention. I think it may have to do with the war more than any other thing.

[youngdem]

5. I would only have been impressed had he admitted it when it weren't the popular thing to do

He is a politician. He changed his tune when the polls said so. Not before. He only would have any credibility here if he had admitted it back when public opinion was still going the other way.

His admittance that he was wrong was political necessity, nothing more. He realized that if he wanted to be president, he had to eat some serious crow. He is indeed a sharp politician, and what he sees is an opportunity in being the strongest voice to oppose the current debacle.

Seems to be working too, from what I am reading on DU lately.

Problem is, this guy is still supporting Bush's crazy language on Iran. He seems not to have learned his lesson.

Forgive me if I don't trust his motivations for his epiphany. He just strikes me as someone who has such a hard-on to be president, he will say anything. And that is just as dangerous as being stubbornly Bush-like in many ways.

And if I hear him called courageous for admitting he was wrong again, I'm gonna be sick. Jumping on the bandwagon requires no courage at all.

BTW, this is not directed at the poster per se, just generally the support I see for him among those that oppose the war.

[David Zephyr]

10. I hear you and where you are coming from.

No one gave John Edwards and John Kerry a harder time here at the DU than me. Ask their supporters, they will tell you so. Chris Heinz even wrote me twice about it, and I must admit, he was swell about it, too.

That said, would you prefer that he continue on like Hillary in justifying his vote? He did own up to his mistake. Your moniker here is youngdem which is a great name. I am a very olddem and if we'd had more Democrats that could have admitted frankly their mistakes over these many years, we would be a lot better place.

It's good that you are skeptical, but sometimes we also need to take a man (or woman) at their word when they so forthrightly (and humbly) admit a mistake. That's a quality that is rare these days...so,you might also want to be skeptical of politicians that are incapable of admitting to having made a mistake. They are the most dangerous of all.

[youngdem]

14. No, I would not want him to go Hillary on it

Doing Clintonian gymnastics with her rationale.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad he admitted he was wrong, but that doesn't mean much to me, as I described earlier.

Plus, his ad hoc criticism of Obama was pathetic and contrived, and really just showed that this is all about pandering and not about substance....to me anyway. Criticizing someone for getting it right with less information than you had on hand is pretty weak shit.

Don't get confused by my name...Doesn't refer to age. Prolly older than you (sadly).

Nice to meet you, by the way...Hope to see you around.

And, to be clear, I will get behind Edwards full out should he be the nominee. He is a good man, and I do like him....Just weary, that's all.

[David Zephyr]

17. "Clintonian gymnastics"

I like that. :hi:

[Clark2008]

18. I started to post, but you said exactly what I was feeling.

The interview on MTP only confirmed to me what I already felt about him.

And, to belabor a point, I'm not jealous of him. I don't "hate" him. I don't dislike him because I support Clark and all that other garbage. I just don't think he's presidential caliber and I don't think he fully appreciates foreign policy.

[youngdem]

44. On a totally unrelated note, any news on Clark entering, Clark2008?

I hope he does. Today more than ever we need a clear military mind in the race bringing reality to the debate.

He's a great man.

[jen4clark]

47. Re: Clark entering -- check it out!!

Hillary Clinton is one of seven candidates who will attend a Democratic presidential candidates forum in Carson City on Feb. 21.

Also confirming for the event are senators Joe Biden and Chris Dodd, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack, retired Gen. Wes Clark and former Sen. Mike Gravel, according to Steve Platt, chairman of the Carson City Democratic Central Committee.

Two other candidates, Sen. Barack Obama and former Sen. John Edwards, have not yet confirmed if they will attend, Platt said.

The forum will be held at noon at the Carson City Community Center. Details on how tickets for the event will be distributed have not been worked out yet, according to Platt.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070206/ELECTIONS/70206001

[orpupilofnature57]

6. Considering MTP is the modern Graveyard for Dem's , Edwards did fine.

[waiting for hope]

9. I'm with you - I've been an

Edwards supporter since 2004. There is something really tangible about the guy - I don't get the trail lawyer vibe as some here are prone to compare to a used car salesman. I sincerely believe he's sincere and all he wants to do is be a public servant and help get this country back on its feet and back to the promise of what America stands for. He's got my vote.

[David Zephyr]

15. Thank you.

I'm still a big supporter of Wes Clark and believe he's the best choice among our many, but you are supporting a good man and Edwards is just that.

[Pastiche423]

12. You've been had, David

And it really surprises me that you don't realize it.

[David Zephyr]

25. Possibly.

I can only take the man at his word. He said he made a mistake and didn't try to defend it. It was my biggest beef with Edwards.

If I've been had, then so be it. I trust him.

[spooky3]

13. I'm very glad to hear this.

We have some excellent candidates again this year. And I agree with you about Howard Dean.

[David Zephyr]

24. We do have some excellent candidates this year.

And Howard is doing a great job. We agree.

[Schema Thing]

16. I guess I need to see the interview or read the transcript....

it sounded from a post here at DU that he did indeed find a way to make a backhanded excuse for his vote.

[David Zephyr]

22. Hope you can watch the interview.

Russert would not stop at digging at Edwards over his vote. He played video after video of Edwards and then would offer him a chance to make excuses and Edwards wouldn't bite. I hope you can watch it.

What I muttered out loud several times during the exchange was what a grand hypocrite Tim Russert is because he treated Howard Dean and all the Democrats who opposed the IWR like they were idiots and not patriots for having done so.

The person that needs to apologize is Russert. He is now pretending like he had opposed Bush's war when nothing on earth could be further from reality.

[Olney Blue]

19. I like your post.

It's positive and constructive.

[David Zephyr]

27. Thanks.

We have some really great candidates this time around. I feel strongly that Wes Clark will make the best president of the lot and he has my support, but when our team is standing up to a tyrant the way they are, I am in the Cheering Squad. And proudly so.

Thanks for your comments.

[Lex]

20. Obama, Clark, or Edwards. Or Gore, if he runs.

Any of them are top notch and I'd have no trouble voting for any of them.

[David Zephyr]

28. All terrific in my eyes.

:thumbsup:

[Morgana LaFey]

21. So you're okay with his support for warmongering against Iran?

I thought this was a superb exposition on the matter (matching my own thoughts very well):

Digby on the real danger of Hillary's and Edwards' hawkish Iran remarks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3093334&mesg_id=3093334

and this (pandering) didn't thrill me either:
Hillary and Edwards to "Square Off" at AIPAC dinner tonight in New York
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3090101

But yes, he did a lovely job on MTP. I just wish he'd quit shooting himself in the foot AFAIC.

[Tom Joad]

23. Not quite a Edwards fan, but glad he knows its important to end the funding for this illegal war.

[David Zephyr]

32. Hi Tom.

I'm with you. Cutting the funding will take some steel nerve, but it's what must be done.

[saltpoint]

26. Hi, David. Stick to your guns. Don't take any negative crap from

anybody. You've spent a moment on DU to praise a Democrat.

Nothin' wrong with that.

If you are interested, John Edwards will be the guest on Diane Rehm's NPR show tomorrow (Tuesday), I believe in the first hour.

[David Zephyr]

33. Thanks for the tip about NPR.

:hi:

[soswolf]

30. I've backed Edwards since he ran for Senate in '98

and will continue to do so. I think that he hit the ball out of the park on MTP. I've always voted for him here in NC.
Clark and Obama are tied for my second place vote at this point.
I really think that considering it was Meet The Press, he did very well.

Wanna read some good stuff? Get Edwards' book, Four Trials. Good stuff.
He goes over his four biggest trials, and gives some insight into his personal life and upbringing in the rural parts of North and South Carolina.

***edited for HTML***

[David Zephyr]

34. Edwards, Obama and Clark. All good choices.

I thought that Russert's quoting Obama's prescient words about the Iraqi war was compelling.

[citizen snips]

49. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[soswolf]

58. Thanks

[FourScore]

31. Edwards was incredible on MTP n/t

[David Zephyr]

50. Yes, he was.

And he speaks clearly and thinks before he does so.

[ConsAreLiars]

39. I heard somethinq quite different.

I heard him say he supported the goals of the PNAC monsters, just that he had a better way to establish US power in the Middle East. I was disgusted.

[eridani]

41. I like his current stance on the Iraq war--but why the saber-rattling on Iran?

That is really disturbing.

[Dover]

42. And just think of all the jobs

his new house alone has generated!

Just think of it as a public works program...:P

[David Zephyr]

45. Ha!

Well, there you have it, Dover.

He did make all of his money on his own and didn't inherit it or get cronyisitic government contracts.

[orpupilofnature57]

48. Bless you David ,the fundamental difference ,Work verse Entitlement.

You're one of the most well read people on DU and I've learned a lot from you ,thank you.

[MilesColtrane]

51. Fucking Tom Delay...TOM DELAY!! has apololgized for his IWR vote...

But, Hillary still hasn't.

Jesus, I never would have thought that would happen.

[David Zephyr]

52. I didn't know that Delay had apologized for his vote.

Do you have a link to a story? Thanks.

[MilesColtrane]

60. Sorry.

I've been Googling for an hour and I can't find it.
Goddamit! I know I saw a small story on the net somewhere in which DeLay apologized in a radio interview.

It had to have been either on Raw Story, Huffington Post, DU, or Crooks and Liars.
I can't find it now.

[RiverStone]

53. I can forgive, tho won't forget...

I agree that JE did a wonderful job on MTP. I also appreciated his humility and taking responsibility. And I would vote for an IWR apologist over Hillary any day. With all her resources, it boggles my mind that some trusted handler does not get in her face and tell her to simply say: "I was wrong." Don't get it???

That being said, I really hope a viable candidate makes it through the primaries who NEVER has to apologize in the first place. That would include Obama, Clark, Gore, Feingold, Kucinich...of course, only two on that list have stated intentions to run - on the record. Yes I forgive JE, but I simply can't fathom how 23 other senators, 133 other Reps and millions world wide in protests knew that Shrub was going to start a horrendous and wasteful war - and he did not? I believe he knew it, but did what was politically expeditious (that's one part of his mea culpa you won't hear).

In the end, I'd vote for JE without hesitating; though I hope I'll see some one else on the ballet come Nov 08. :)

[David Zephyr]

54. You make sound points, RiverStone.

Certainly, many Democrats did get it right on the big issue of war and they all deserve a lot of praise and respect because they were accused of being "soft on terrorism" and even "aiding the terrorists" and being "unpatriotic" for having had the real patriotism to have done the right thing.

That said, I'm glad to see that you say that "I agree that JE did a wonderful job on MTP. I also appreciated his humility and taking responsibility."

I also agree with what you said about Hillary. She continues to disappoint when it isn't even necessary to do so. Did you notice that John Edwards mentioned that he also got "intelligence" not only from the Bush White House about Saddam, but also from many former Clinton administration officials who were "wrong" about the WMD's. I thought that was telling.

[progressivebydesign]

56. Didn't we all argue here that the IWR did not actually give Bush war powers?

I swear, when I hear people talk of an illegal war, that we all were talking (at the time) about how the people who voted for the IWR were doing so because they believed it was sending a message, and did not give explicit permission to start bombing. I might be delusional on that.. but why do people keep saying it's an illegal war if our Congress voted to have a war?

[progressivebydesign]

55. One of the best posts I've read here on DU. you're awesome!

John Edwards is not my first choice at this point, but it's early yet. I'd like to see Gore/Edwards, actually.. but it's refreshing to see someone move forward as you have. awesome!

[dysfunctional press]

59. if he feels that his support of the IRW was a mistake...

then why is he sounding so hawkish these days in regards to iran?

same old song and dance.

[appal_jack]

61. what about the PATRIOT ACT?

I'm still waiting for a similar apology for that dope-of-a-vote.

Wouldn't it be nice to run a candidate that actually believes in the Bill of Rights?!?

-app