I remember how several of you turned on Fitzgerald.

[CatWoman]

"Fitzmas is a BUST" you said.

I also remember how several of you turned on Truthout/Jason Leopold.

Ha!!!

[helderheid]

1. it was downright UGLY.

[Laurab]

82. VERY ugly

First time I ever used the "ignore" feature, in fact. I got over it, and removed people from ignore, but damn, I couldn't believe some of the downright evil posts.

Patience is a good thing to have, and it's going to be so much fun to watch these guys turning on each other!

[nashville_brook]

116. their crow will be quite tasty in a humble pie

[Goblinmonger]

2. Was Rove indicted?

I missed that. Got a link?

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. He apparently made a last minute deal

in order to save his own neck.

[Goblinmonger]

11. Really?

Link for that allegation?

[onenote]

33. last minute deal after he was indicted?

Leopold was unambiguous in his claim: Rove was indicted by the grand jury and, on May 12, served with a copy of that indictment and given "24 business hours to get his affairs in order".

You still think that was true? If so, and the indictment was quashed or dismissed as part of a deal with Rove, what do you think Fitz got in return?

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. How do you think Fitzgerald

found out that Libby destroyed a note from Cheney, that would have shown Libby was a liar?

[Spazito]

45. I am assuming it was an "electronic" note, e-mail

and Libby deleted it but didn't know enough to truly wipe it out. That is speculation on my part but it makes sense to me.

[DoYouEverWonder]

48. The note was from Cheney

Cheney is not the emailing type.

I'd be surprised if he even knows how to turn on a computer.

[Spazito]

60. That, too, is an assumption, imo

We don't know whether Cheney used e-mail or not, I haven't heard or read anything that specifies that he does not use e-mail as opposed to bush who expressly stated he didn't use e-mail not because he couldn't but because he knew it leaves a trail.

I guess we will find out whether it is a paper trail, an electronic trail or a witness testifying to the original existence of the document only when it, whatever it is, is introduced as evidence or the witness testifies to it's existence.

However Fitzgerald discovered it's existence, there is NO doubt in my mind he has the necessary hard evidence to prove it.

[Tin Man]

50. I'll wager you're right about the email.

electronic records are a bitch. You delete something, but there's virtual copies everywhere.

Ghosts in the machine.

[Tin Man]

47. How did Fitz get ahold of the NYT column, personally annotated by Cheney?

the answer to both questions is: by subpeona.

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. How do you subpeona

something that has been destoyed? Someone has to tell you about it.

[Tin Man]

53. It was electronic communication...

"deleted" by Libby, and subsequently denied during the GJ investigation.

Except electronic communications are much more difficult to destroy than a paper note. Oopsie.

[DoYouEverWonder]

56. Who said anything about email?

Fitzgerald said Libby destroyed notes.

[Tin Man]

62. Here's what Fitz said (or what firedoglake is reporting Fitz said)

"VP notes–Libby knew that note was in his file. But he wiped it out."

"Wiped out" is an odd way to describe destroying a paper note, but a common way to describe deleting an electronic communication or file.

[Tin Man]

75. Of course, "wiping out" might also describe lipstick scribblings on a bathroom mirror...

Maybe that's how folks communicate in the WH?

[DoYouEverWonder]

83. I suppose we'll find out for sure

soon enough.

Keep in mind, these blogs are not exact transcripts, so we shouldn't split hairs over wording at this point.

[Spazito]

91. Johnathan Alter is on Franken right now and said, re this issue...

he thinks, due to the use of the term "wiped out", it most likely refers to it being something dictated by Cheney to a clerical assistant (my term, not Johnathan's, he could have used secretary, I am not sure) who, in turn, transcribed the contents onto the computer and sent it to Libby.

This would say Alter is in agreement with Tin Man re the connotation of the phrase "wiped out".

Edited to correct a typo, belatedly discovered.

[DoYouEverWonder]

The old school guys like Cheney

still probably do dictation, so that sounds like a reasonable explanation. I wonder if Cheney dictates to tape?

[Spazito]

100. Wow, excellent question! Watergate redoux?!?

Hmmm, would Cheney be arrogant/stupid enough to do what Nixon did? Given all that has happened I would hesitate to say No to that, rofl.

[dogday]

74. How would he of known about an annotated column

with the benefit of being told? Is he the Great Karnak now???

[Tin Man]

79. It's called "discovery procedings"

and it's how evidence is aquired. Specific knowledge is not a prerequisite for investigations to gain access to documents potentially pertinent to the case.

[dogday]

86. And they would of known to ask about the

annotations on the NYT article? I could see them asking if he read the article... You have to wonder why the article was just laying around or had been filed?

[lovuian]

78. I knew Fitzgerald would want to keep his reputation as

a great prosecutor and he better come up with convictions

which knowing him thats a certainty

Ken Star is probably the only pitiful investigator who came up with only a Blue dress

Fitz has made the Independant Investigator back in the great respect department

Democrats getting House and Senate was a big boost to

Ya all know Gonzales is going to get in on this also :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

87. Gonzo Boy needs to be impeached first

I believe you just need a simple majority to impeach the AG.

[onenote]

89. what does that have to do with a deal with Rove?

[DoYouEverWonder]

97. Fitzgerald appears to know things,

like this note that Libby destroyed, that had to come from someone on the inside.

I could be wrong about it coming from Rove, but this info had to come from someone on the inside that's cooperating with the prosecution. Of course, there may be a number of people, including Rove, that are cooperating.

[originalpckelly]

7. Yes, I know. It still doesn't mean Leopold was right...

he's not offered an explanation to my knowledge. He still needs to.

It's not as if that was his first unethical reporting as a journalists.

[Quixote1818]

29. We don't know that he was wrong yet either. Lets wait and see what unfolds. nt

[mzmolly]

88. Well, he was apparently "unindicted" if he was indicted at all.

And, that is what some here speculated "Rove cut a deal." I was among the speculateez. ;)

[terip64]

4. Ha is right. Read this artcile by Leopold. Good stuff

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3071740&mesg_id=3071740

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. HA! Is right!

:bounce: Don'tcha just love saying, "I told ya so?" :7 I do.

[Goblinmonger]

How is this "told ya so"?

Where is the proof of Rove's indictment on Leopold's timeline?

[xultar]

6. It's never to late for Fitzmas.

[Snivi Yllom]

8. Leopold was a liar/ Truthout fell for it

Karl Rove was not indicted.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. Karl Rove was going to be indicted..which means Leopold is not a liar. KKKRove made a deal

to save his own ass, but it sounds like his ass is STILL in trouble!:rofl::rofl:

[Goblinmonger]

13. Linky? n/t

[walldude]

20. Linky... Libby's gonna turn on Rove

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=12994&mesg_id=12994

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. LOL...thanks for the linky!

:)

[Goblinmonger]

63. Hate to be the grammar nazi

but "going to be indicted" is not the same as "was indicted." Leopold is still full of shit. Rove was NOT indicted in the past but may be in the future. BIG difference.

[CatWoman]

72. Ya WOHL!!!!!!

[Snivi Yllom]

77. says who?

A deranged drug addict who has been previously fired for making up stories?

How about a CREDIBLE source?

[tridim]

17. You're STILL trying to shit on Leopold? GIve it up man!

Maybe you should pay attention to the actual trial proceedings.

[Goblinmonger]

65. How do the trial proceedings

prove Leopold right in any way. Leopold shit on himself when fabricated sources, plagiarized, and all the other shitty things he did BEFORE the truthout story. The fact that anyone would trust him at all is beyond me.

[Snivi Yllom]

71. I don't have to poop on Leopold

He's already up to his eyeballs in BS.

[dogday]

92. Well I see all the regulars are out with this thread

I am on this board every day and I hardly ever see these posters post a thing except when it comes to this thread.. Then the bad-mouthing starts all over again as if they are picking up from their last post almost 9 months ago...

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. And, 4,3,2,1, they show up here to repeat it

There are a number of DUers whose motives I simply do not trust.

Down with the War on Fitzmas! :D

[CatWoman]

12. Give Urd and Neo a belly rub for me

:hi:

[Der Blaue Engel]

21. Will do!

And do the same to your gang for me, with an extra belly rub for Trinity for her sassy tongue. :D

:hi:

[myrna minx]

15. Nah, CatWoman was just luring them all to one thread, so that those who have been

following this for years can discuss it without all of the Leopold bashing. It's brilliant. :-)

[Goblinmonger]

16. Here's what I don't trust

People who blindly believe someone who has, at best, a sketchy career as a journalist. There is still no prove that what Leopold said is anywhere NEAR the truth.

[CatWoman]

19. well,

I don't trust goblins!!!

Sprites are much better people.

[Goblinmonger]

67. Don't even talk to me about sprites

they are just fancy pixies, nothing more.

[CatWoman]

103. ROFL!!!!

:hi:

[Der Blaue Engel]

25. I don't trust people who can't see the forest for the trees

:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Stay tuned. Leopold is about to be vindicated.

read the trial transcript. The url is posted on a thread about firedoglake.

[Midlodemocrat]

68. I trust Will Pitt.

[CatWoman]

106. well, I did

until he went all "bald" on me :rofl:

[seabeyond]

14. not me. i am a wait and see kinda gal. still waiting. still seeing n/t

[sakabatou]

18. Huh?

I dressed as Fitzgerald for Halloween once. It was fun!

[CatWoman]

22. I think he is sooooooooooooo fucking

CUTE!!! :)

[sakabatou]

36. I was even handing out Libby's indictment to people

[mmonk]

24. Not me.

Though tough, I've waited to see how things would shake out.

[CatWoman]

26. is that Sibel in your sig line?

she is one beautiful lady

:hi:

[mmonk]

38. Yes it is. We can all hope one day she can have her say.

:hi:

[Quixote1818]

28. I always felt it was a "sealed" indictment, but was not sure.

I thought Rove could have cut a deal at the last second. I took a wait and see attitude.

[onenote]

35. anything is possible, I suppose

But I'd like someone to offer at least some idea as to what Fitz would've gotten in return for a deal to dismiss an indictment against Rove.

Any thoughts?

[Norquist Nemesis]

30. They should have listened to those of us from Illinois

We know Fitzgerald well, and love him! One thing he absolutely is NOT is political. Don't let the media fool you into thinking that he is. He in no way resembles Ken Starr. It was a huge surprise that he was appointed.

I don't know how it will all end up, but I'd put my money on Fitzgerald in a heartbeat every time.

As to Leopold, I still don't think he lied or made up the story.

[Cleita]

31. Okay naysayers, who are you going to believe?

A cabal of Bush sycophants who have been proven to be liars over and over again, or a reporter who may have reported something in error, but whose work by and large has stood up as factual and truthful.

The answer as to who the real liars are here is pretty obvious to me. I too am not passing judgement until the outcome of this becomes clear. Right now we don't have the whole story, but I'm pretty sure Rove and Libby et al will be shown to be guilty as charged.

[jaysunb]

32. Betcha I wasn't one of them !

Ha !

[Ganja Ninja]

34. I'll admit to complaining about the slow pace Fitz moved at.

But I thought the whole Jason Leopold thing was a bit of an over reaction.

[ByeDick]

37. Ha!!

:hi:

[Catherine Vincent]

90. Well hello!

You haven't been posting much. You were onto Cheney from the beginning. :hi:

[catmandu57]

39. " I knew you could eat all them eggs Luke"

Going to be a lot of that in the coming days.

[CatWoman]

57. OMG, that's funny

:rofl:

"you see, what we have here is a failure to communicate"

:)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. Many of those who were posting tripe about Fitzgerald appear to be gone now

You'd see the baited thread every once in awhile "what ever happened to Fitzmas" by some new person who wasn't even a member here at that time. Oddly, these people seem to be MIA now. :shrug:

[Spazito]

41. Yep, it seems, from the Libby defense opening statement,

Karl Rove was the bad guy not poor, little "Scooter", roflmao. That can only mean Rove struck a deal with the government to save his sorry ass and the Libby defense is going to try and paint a target on him and impeach his testimony.

I alway believed Leopold's report on Rove and felt that Rove made a last minute deal and still believe it. The repeated finger pointing to Rove in the defense opening statement only strengthens that belief.

[Zodiak]

42. I never went after Truthout, Leopold, or Will Pitt.

For some reason, I am immune to things like jeering, bullying, and DU "clique" politics.

The crowd that carried out these incessant smears are the usual suspects. Always telling the rest of DU how much smarter they are about.....well....everything.

[LSK]

44. we need to reopen those wounds??

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

54. come into the wound. the wound is good. the wound is wise.

:hi:

[LSK]

64. can I bring salt?

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

46. I never doubted

that he had constructed brick by brick a formidable case against Libby that even the most slippery of weasels could not foil.

Go get 'em, Fitz.

[SodoffBush]

51. Fitzie and Leopold together in one post?

Jesus, talk about being outclassed...

What's Leopold been doing lately? Crushing beer cans on his forehead?

[Swamp Rat]

52. Not me!

HA HA!

:D

[CatWoman]

55. LOL

Of course not you, Swampy!!

:hi:

[enigmatic]

58. This is going to be hilarious the next few days

Cheney's a gonerl; THANK YOU, Fitz!:headbang:

[WI_DEM]

59. Not me, I just got tired of the constant references to "Fitzmas"!!

it was cute at first and then it became over blown. But any criminal case takes time and people are impatient.

[Pathwalker]

61. Well, Fitzmas is HERE! and it's gonna STAY

for four to six weeks!!!! It's Karma time!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Cameron27]

66. Never doubted Fitzgerald,

Leopold & Truthout, another matter.

[Marie26]

69. What, if anything, does one have to do w/the other? nt

[CatWoman]

70. what "don't" they have to do with the other? nt

[Marie26]

76. Better yet, what "do" they?

:) You're linking together two seperate people, two seperate events, as if one vindicates the other. It does not. Fitzgerald might well come through on indicting more people - I've always thought that Cheney was his real target, and his MO is to get the little guys to implicate the big guys. But that doesn't change the fact that the Leopold story was wrong when it was published, and is still wrong today. Rove was not indicted in May 2006. So, I'm a little perplexed as to why people should apologize for thinking a story was wrong, when it was in fact wrong.

[CatWoman]

80. 1. 2 separate people; same case

2.2 separate events; same case.

It was said Fitz wasn't going to indict anyone. He did. He indicted 2 separate people in the same case.

Rove made a deal at the 11th hour.

scroll up.

[Marie26]

84. Was the story right? No

So, should people apologize for saying it wasn't right? No. BTW, Fitzgerald has not indicted 2 seperate people, only one - Libby. The person who claimed upthread that Rove "made a deal" at the last minute never provided a link for that claim.

[Tin Man]

110. But Fitz made a deal with Rove in order to get Libby...

You know, he threw back the BIG fish in order to get the LITTLE fish.

Common practice among fishermen and prosecutors...

[Marie26]

111. Uh-huh

Oh yeah, prosecutors do that all the time. That's why Fitz cut a deal w/the Illinois governor in order to prosecute a low-level mob guy instead. Or was it the opposite?

[H2O Man]

73. Me?

Huh? (grin)

[CatWoman]

93. Yes

YOU

:hi:

[H2O Man]

96. It wasn't me!

It was Tim Russert, I think.

[CatWoman]

98. or maybe this guy?

:)



that's the cover that made me *swoon*

:rofl:

[seemslikeadream]

81. Merry Fitzmas CatWoman

[CatWoman]

94. MERRY FITZMAS

:hi:

this is great, isn't it?

:rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

85. I would never turn on Fitzy.

I wasn't too keen on this Fitzmas business I just played along. But the man is good at what he does. He's awesome. He's tenacious. He's relentless. He's the ultimate prosecutor. He's as independent as they come. I could go on and on about him but my fingers would fall off from the typing. :loveya:

[CatWoman]

95. I know of your lust for The Fitz

:hi:

:)

[spanone]

99. The thread that keeps on giving. Nominated. It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year.......

:loveya:

[Catherine Vincent]

104. And you're not the only one, CatWoman!

Let's try and keep it on the down lo. :evilgrin:

[deaniac21]

101. Looks like we have several people running for mayor of

Parsing, KS.

[DancingBear]

102. No, we said Leopold made shit up

and TO didn't have the honesty to 'fess up.

Remember 5th floor, all day meeting, Secret Service, locked room, May 12th?

That, boys and girls, would get a kid sent to his room until he learned to tell the truth.

[CatWoman]

105. Shall we dance?

:)

[DancingBear]

108. Only if we waltz

I'm too fucking old for anything else.

[SodoffBush]

115. Some people are born to be the eternal cheerleader

despite the evidence.

[CatWoman]

117. Well, I do have an awfully cute pair of pom-poms

Gimme an "F"

Gimme a "U"

Gimme a "C"

Gimme a "K"

Gimme a "U"

[Generator]

107. My high expectation euphoria DU days are over

And Liepold was a part of that. (and I miss Fitzmas but it's too little too late-in my book-we need more than a little time in prison for Scooter that is almost in the end meaningless to the whole thing-he's not the point!)
Until these cretins are actually out of (namely Bush, Cheney and Gonzalez-since they are truly committing crimes against humanity) office, behind bars, or running to Paraguay I won't feel at ease in the least. Nor even excited. I believes it when I actually sees it with my own eyes.

[k_jerome]

109. i expressed some doubt about the story of Leopold....

if I turn out to be wrong, i will gladly admit it and apologize. has this been shown to be the case?

[Tin Man]

112. Not yet.

Odds are you'll continue to be in the "not wrong" column for some time to come. Something like eternity comes to mind...

[malaise]

113. LOL

I remember stating that I'd rather watch the preparation of a full course meal than fast food. Go Fitz. I'm loving it.

[Missy Vixen]

114. This is an amazing day

I'm so glad FDL was able to live blog the opening statements. I have a feeling it's going to be the gift that keeps on giving!

Julie
still president for life of the PFEB

[yardwork]

118. Locking

Please don't call out other DUers. Thanks!