its March 25, 2008 and the Senate just failed to vote to convict Bush on Impeachment charges

[LSK]

The vote was 55 - 45. Impeachment fails. After all the trials, all the evidence, all that came out in the open, 45 Republican Senators continued to play partyline sheep and did not vote to Impeach Bush.

Bush would then feel that he has a "mandate" and would set his sights on Iran.

-------

How would you feel? Would justice have been served?

Would you be happy enough that the process happened but failed?

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Yup .....

.... keep that powder dry.

[hootinholler]

39. BWAAA!

:rofl:

I guess nobody else gets it.

-Hoot

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. Short term, not happy but delighted that it would be a death knell

of more GOP seats.

[Solly Mack]

3. Not to quibble but once it's in the Senate, it's not impeachment that failed

it's conviction

Impeachment has to pass (be a success)in order for it to reach the Senate, who are the ones that vote to convict.

You can be impeached and not be convicted and the impeachment still stands.

[LSK]

6. I did say convict, didnt i?

:shrug:

[Solly Mack]

13. Yes..but you also say

"Impeachment fails. After all the trials, all the evidence, all that came out in the open, 45 Republican Senators continued to play partyline sheep and did not vote to Impeach Bush."

But once it is in the Senate, that means Impeachment did NOT fail. It has to pass to get to the Senate. So that means Bush would have been impeached in order for it to make it to the Senate.

Then you say 45 repubican senators did not vote for impeachment...senators don't vote for impeachment...sentators vote for conviction....the House, or Representatives,vote for impeachment

[Mnemosyne]

4. Worst birthday present, EVER. n/t

[NV Whino]

24. Ditto

Not good for an Aries to be disappointed.

[Mnemosyne]

30. No, it's not.

I am slow to anger, much practice over the years, but when it comes - watch out! :evilgrin:

I want them all in prison for my 50th!:party:

Here's hoping our birthday wishes come true next year! :toast:

:hi:

[NV Whino]

31. I'll drink to that

:toast: Here's hoping our birthday wishes come true next year!

[Mnemosyne]

38. Ramen!

I've had amazing things happen before on our day, crossing my fingers, toes, legs, arms and eyes! lol

[groovedaddy]

5. Or the shit KEEPS hitting the fan

the voting public may ask: "WHY weren't these bastards impeached?!" And then proceed to make those who refused to hold the liars & crooks responsible pay the price at the polls.

[pat_k]

35. The public is already disgusted. Check out Congressional "approval"

Many have been predicting that their failure to impeach would exacerbate the Number 1 (perception that they are weak) and Number 2 (failure to define over-arching principles that inspire) problems, when they could be solving them. (Impeachment demonstrates strength and conviction. It's an opportunity to define themselves as true champions of the People's Government and the Constitution.)

I really didn't expect to see the damage reflected in the polls so soon. Figured it would take a few more impotent gestures by the "leadership" before the public threw up their hands in disgust and despair.

They'd better wake up and stand up soon or they will pay a high price personal, moral, and political price. While that may be of concern to them, the price they pay is nothing compared to the price the nation will pay for their failure.

[Moochy]

7. "So you happy now?"

LSK in 2009: "Aww man, b'cuz we listened to those anti-war crazies, and tried to do the right thing the dictator went off and did something evil-ler. Good Going "prooooooogressssives""

Where's Mr Benchley when you need to hit him?

[LSK]

9. look you can call me names all you want

But the scenario I laid out is highly likely if an Impeachment process were to play out.

Now you can discuss reasonably how your reaction to such a scenario would be or you can insult me.

[Moochy]

11. No names

I was transferring the anger from reading your anti-impeachment post to my Mr Benchley punching doll.

And on edit I did not remove any names just clarified my silly "future quotation" of you in 2009.

[madinmaryland]

8. It would be 44 Republican Senators + Lieberman (Party unto himself)

[pat_k]

34. 1) don't be so sure; 2) So what?

Resignation or removal is not only possible, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1169359&mesg_id=1170206 ">given the choice impeachment would force them, it's likely.

If too many of Bush and Cheney's fascist minions choose Fascist principle over American principle, the public will judge them. If our fellow Americans side with the fascists, at least we know what we are up against. If we go down, at least we go down fighting. Shame on us if surrender to the fascists without a fight.

[AndyA]

10. The 45 Republican Senators who voted to protect Bush would all suffer

from immediate political suicide.

At this point, tons of information about Bush's dirty deeds have been made public. There has been lots of media coverage, even if they didn't want to, they would have to for the sake of their own reputations.

Olbermann, Huffington, Air America, all of the Dems would have been talking about nothing but the crimes against America committed by Bush.

So a vote to protect his sorry ass would be suicide for the GOPers.

[onenote]

19. Haven't they already committed "political suicide"

By opposing a timetable for withdrawal from iraq or by opposing cloture on a no-confidence vote in Gonzo? By opposing stem cell research?

Don't overestimate the pro-impeachment sentiment or underestimate the willingness of the electorate in red states to look the other way.

Sadly, the public's attention span and understanding of the issues that would be raised in an impeachment effort are not that great. If impeachment is a purely partisan effort -- and I would hope it wouldn't be but at the moment I don't see that changing -- the repub base will rally and a lot of folks in the middle may write the whole thing off as more "politics" from DC

[AndyA]

20. Possibly. But I still say an attempt is better than nothing at all.

I think most Repugs right now think they still have time to cover their asses before the next election. But with every day that passes, that door closes a little bit more.

I think back to Watergate. People didn't generally pay that much attention to it until the final months before Tricky Dicky resigned. But the momentum was building, and I think that will happen again.

To do nothing is to condone these actions on the part of Congress.

Subpoenas are being ignored. The Justice Department is not responding to inquiries from Congressional Committees regarding Cheney. What's left? Just let them get away with it?

Impeachment is quickly becoming the ONLY option for the Dems in Congress. And that's another door that closes a little bit every day. They need to get on with it.

[pat_k]

33. Even if they were lauded, better to know what we are REALLY up against

We have become fearful of our fellow Americans. We fear they will reject us if we are honest and clear. We don't trust them. We seek to manipulate them, and thus undermine our own efforts. (People do not respond well to threats to their autonomy.) When they reject our manipulations we say "See, we can't trust them."

You are absolutely right. It doesn't matter if too many of Bush and Cheney's minions in the Senate refuse to force resignation or vote for removal. Leveling grave charges that Senators must answer forces them to take sides -- to declare themselves for American principle or Fascist principle. The American people will stand in judgment of their choice in the next election.

The Constitution -- amended and entrusted to us to protect and perfect as we strive to "form a more perfect union" -- calls on us to put our trust in our fellow Americans (you know, "We the People"). If we aren't willing to do that, how can we claim to stand for true American values?

We must start trusting the public with the truth, even if we fear our they will find the lies of fascists more compelling then our truths. Better to know what we are really up against, than to act on fearful assumptions.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

12. If the proceedings are vigorously utilized to conduct extensive discovery,...

,...of ALL POSSIBLE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES,...

I would be extremely satisfied!!!

[pat_k]

29. Oh no, no, no. Impeachment is a RESCUE operation.

We know all we need to know. We DON'T need to know all there IS to know.

The goal is to stop the destroyers by removing their power to destroy ASAP. It must be as simple and swift as possible.

If they fall into the trap liberals so often do -- endless detail to "educate the public" -- Congress will just undermine the effort.

We can't simultaneously declare Bush and Cheney to be outlaws that must be immediately removed, and then go on, and on, and on attempting to expose "everything" while Bush and Cheney go on, and on, and on with their fascist war on American principle.

Bush and Cheney declare their intent to destroy the Constitution every single time they invoke unitary authoritarian power, whey they ONLY do when they are committing crimes in plain sight.) The judiciary committee could present an indefensible case in a day. (Of course the blowhards would undoubtedly stretch even the simplest case to a week.)

They must keep it simple and swift. They must keep it grounded in simple truths and moral principles. They must ridicule and reject fascist attempts obscure reality by claiming legalistic complexity.

Impeaching Bush and Cheney is about asserting our sovereignty over the officials we "hire" to serve us. It is about We the People recognizing that WE are in charge. We sent them there serve as Our Voice.

Keep it simple and they become champions of the People's Government, the Constitution, and the principle of consent on which the nation is founded.

[BridgeTheGap]

14. So, if you don't think you can win

you shouldn't try?
The Dick & Karl show will just chug along its merry way.
Impeachment is the right thing to do. It may be the only way to force them to hand over documents that will reveal how criminal their activities have been. If the 45 repugs want to present themselves as cover for criminals, let them. Then let the voters decide whether or not they want people like that as their senator.

[endarkenment]

15. Yes.

Assuming that mountains of evidence of malfeasance, corruption, high crimes amounting to treason, etc have been put on the table, and that what has happened is that the Republican senators have shamed themselves, that it has become evident to the people of this nation that they have been had and used, I am fine with the failure to convict.

The alternative to have tried and failed is to have done nothing in the fact of this great injustice and is of course certain to result in the same outcome: no conviction, without bringing the evidence against The Cabal to the people.

[jtrockville]

16. The senate doesn't vote to impeach, the house does.

After the house votes to impeach, the senate will hold hearings and will vote on whether or not to convict. During the hearings, the details of Bush's crimes will be known by all.

After that, if 45 senators still don't feel he's committed any crimes, then I don't see how Bush's behavior would be any different than it is now. He already does as he pleases.

[ToeBot]

17. Yes. nt

[Beelzebud]

18. It's better to try and fail, than to sit and do NOTHING.

Silence implies consent.

[Rageneau]

21. One reason I'd be happy is it would shut the wingnuts up about Clinton's impeachment.

Wingnuts take great pride in saying that Clinton was the only 20th century prez who was so obviously corrupt, he had to be impeached (even if not removed). Were Bush impeached, wingnuts would howl that it was unfair snd purely political -- to which we could reply, "Aren't ALL impeachments?"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Carnac the Magnificent speaks?

I'll have to get some more batteries for my crystal ball, it doesn't seem to work as well as your does.

[treestar]

23. Hopefully infuriate the populace at the Republicans

In fact by that time, with the M$M being forced to cover it, the anger might be such that only a few Repukes dare to vote against it.

They are blatantly saying they are above the law.

[TwilightGardener]

25. I would be satisfied that at least they TRIED to do the right thing,

instead of remaining paralyzed by political cowardice. To do nothing, at this point, in the face of all that we know, is a crime unto itself. And the thought of forcing Republican Senators to go on the record defending this administration, and all of its misdeeds, would be a happy little gift to me even if we lose.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. At that point, All Of The People Will Know how Corrupt the Republicans are

and many of the Republican Senators will have put their careers on the line. It also will make an excellent case for a Democrat for President.

[magellan]

27. Or, it's March 25, 2008 and the Senate just voted to convict Bush on Impeachment charges

I don't have a crystal ball, do you?

I guess you would rather our founding fathers hadn't voted for independence, because losing the resulting war with England would have signed their death warrants. (In many cases it did anyway, yet they knew the risks and took them.)

[pat_k]

28. Impeachment is victory. It forces the fascist minions into the open.

Impeaching Cheney w/o Bush is a victory, but we don't win the "war" until we impeach Bush too. Their crimes are joint crimes.

It doesn't matter if too many of Bush and Cheney's minions in the Senate refuse to force resignation or vote for removal. Leveling grave charges that Senators must answer forces them to take sides -- to declare themselves for American principle or Fascist principle. The American people will stand in judgment of their choice in the next election.

The Constitution -- amended and entrusted to us to protect and perfect as we strive to "form a more perfect union" -- calls on us to put our trust in our fellow Americans (you know, "We the People"). If we aren't willing to do that, how can we claim to stand for true American values?

BTW, If the so-called Democratic "leadership" has any brains (something they've failed to demonstrate to date), they'll impeach on torture and the unconstitutional and Un-American declarations that the executive has absolute power to violate the Constitution and U.S. Code at whim.

Laughing at Congressional subpoenas is intolerable, but not exactly an act that inspires the passions of the American people. Impeaching Cheney alone, or impeaching on something other torture (e.g., ignoring subpoenas or "lying us into war") and they'll get get the ho-hum response Kucinich's resolution has received.. Bush and Cheney don't publicly claim the executive has unitary authoritarian power to terrorize the American people into war. We cannot allow their open claim to absolute power to stand unchallenged. We cannot allow them to turn Americans into torturers and destroy the American we fought to create.

The victory will be far sweeter if they keep it simple. If they ridicule and reject fascist attempts obscure reality by claiming legalistic complexity. If they keep it grounded in our treasured principles and become champions of the People's Government, the Constitution, and the principle of consent on which the nation is founded.

[BlooInBloo]

32. Spoken like good, compliant oh-woe-is-us -give-bush-his-money Democratic member of Congress.

[yodermon]

36. That's fine.

So much filthy, treasonous, anti-constitutional, otherworldly fucking dirt would have come out in the IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS THAT MUST HAVE HAPPEND TO REACH THIS POINT that the republicon party will utterly self destruct.

I'm game.

[Gold Metal Flake]

37. Your "concern" is noted.

[Major Hogwash]

40. Better check your phones for taps. They want to hear more of what you want to say.

That's how "they" work. "They" have all the time in the world to wait. "They" will listen to you. "They" want to know what else you want to say.

"May I see your papers please, Mr. LSK?"
"Uh, I don't have any papers, we live in Amerika."
"Then may I see your passport please, Mr. LSK?"
"Uh, I don't have a passport."
"Oh, I see, and why is that, Mr. LSK?"
"Uh, I wasn't planning on leaving Amerika anytime in the near future?"
"Oh, then may I see your driver's license please, Mr. LSK?"
"Uh, well, yeah, I guess."
"Your driver's license seems to be out of order, Mr. LSK."
"Uh, what? How could that be?"
"Have you ever been to GITMO, Mr. LSK?"
"Uh, no, not me."
"Nine, you meant, not yet!"

Alles klar, Herr Kommissar?
Don't turn around uh oh-oh look look.
The Komissar's out and about uh oh-oh.