Where are the subpoenas? Where is the enforcement of those already issued?

[Stinky The Clown]

Where is the follow-up on the blatant refusal to answer to the Congress? Where are the contempt of Congress citations? Why is no one in jail for this yet? Where is the Rice woman hiding? Where is the scion of illegal immigrants who serves his Daddy as Attorney General hiding? Why are they walking free? Where is the outrage among our elected officials for the nose thumbing given them by Darth Cheney?

WHY IS NO ONE DOING ANYTHING MORE THAN SHIT-FOR-SHOW???????

Get OFF your fucking dead asses and DO SOMETHING. But this time, do something MEANINGFUL.

No more SHIT-FOR-SHOW.

[bigtree]

1. what you need is some sort of dictatorship . . .

our democratic process, with its fussy laws and the bothersome drudgery of its due process, doesn't seem to suit you.

[Moochy]

4. Or a congress with zero ability to enforce subpoenas

What, you have not read that far ahead ?

[bigtree]

8. maybe you can tell me how the Senate coerced papers under subpoena

out of Clinton during its Whitewater investigation? (hint: resolution)

Or, convinced Nixon to allow Dean and others to testify before the Watergate committee? (hint: trial and conviction)

Oh, I'm not saying it didn't take some luck and effort, but there are several Democrats in Congress who are working right now toward some kind of prosecution which has the potential to galvanize Congress into a unified action against the administration.

Just think what would have happened if Libby had felt squeezed enough to sing. He still could.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

9. Since the executive asserts it is neither limited by the legislative or judicial branch,...

,...I believe it is time to confront the BushCO/neocon cabal and challenge them on such an absurd assertion which constitutes a totalitarian rather than democratic government.

[bigtree]

11. At some point Congress will probably just demand what they want in a resolution.

Hopefully the evidence that we generate between now and then makes it a bipartisan effort. But there needs to be a build-up, not just a stab and miss. A Special Committee to establish what laws Congress thinks are broken; a formal request to the AG for an outside prosecutor because of conflicts of interest(don't be put off by the initial rejection) . . . build the case in public and raise the stakes with each obstruction.

[AndyA]

2. At this point, doesn't Congress have to depend on the Justice Department

for enforcement of those subpoenas?

That means Gonzalez has to do something about it. And so far, he's refused to even respond to Waxman from last January about Cheney's violations of the Presidential Records Act.

So, it would seem to me if everyone in the Bush Administration is just going to ignore the subpoenas they're served, and then the Justice Department is going to refuse to do anything to enforce those subpoenas, Congress has only a very few options left.

One of which is IMPEACHMENT.

They CAN do that, if they'd get off their sorry asses and JUST DO IT. It's about the only thing they truly have left.

[Moochy]

7. But he might invade iran

and then we'd be wishing we were sill in iraq.. or some such bullshit... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1178673

[originalpckelly]

15. The only other group of people I can think of are the Capitol Police.

Those are the only forces directly under the command of the legislative branch.

[treestar]

18. The M$M should have this as the number one story

The Constutition is somewhat dependent on the parties having power obeying it.

The People are not getting this. They worry about whether Paris Hilton gets enough jail time when they have those in the highest offices refusing to comply with the law.

This ought to be story #1. Just shows how frivolous the People are these days that they don't "get" this as the #1 story.

"high crimes and misdemenors" surely includes this.

[DURHAM D]

3. So . . .

I believe that Congress has to rely on the Injustice Department for help with investigation and enforcement - what are the options?

Seems to me the only thing left to do is start talking about our Constitutional Crisis.

[bigtree]

10. we got Fitzgerald out of them over the initial WH objections

We can push the AG for outside investigations with our majority. There's no sense in refusing to demand in a resolution, from an embattled AG and a lame-duck president, that they give us an independent investigation. And we could set up a Special Committee to look into the legalities and evidence . . .

[DURHAM D]

12. I think you are still assuming that we have a working

Justice Department. We don't.

We are in a constitutional meltdown.

[bigtree]

13. But we still have a Justice Dept.

they can still be pressured, even more so now that the AG is under investigation from so many quarters.

[DURHAM D]

16. Fitzgerald happened during Ashcroft.

Cheney put Gonzo at Justice to do exactly what he is doing. Stop, inhibit, suppress, delay, re-direct, destroy all investigations of the current administration. The career people have been sent home and what is left are right wing justice haters.

Why do you think Bush won't fire Fredo?

Your faith in justice comes from an earlier period in our history.

[bigtree]

20. Gonzo is weak

he should be pushed.

The 'faith' I have is in the democratic process which still stands. We just have to fully exercise it; not just declare beforehand that we're already defeated because the administration will push back. We have the upper hand in this.

[DURHAM D]

21. He is not weak. He stands strong with his masters.

I believe in the democratic process also but I think it is time for Congress to let the people know that we are in a Constitutional Crisis. The checks you are looking for and depending on no longer exist.

Our system of government is not working, in part, because it requires that members of the Executive Branch will and want to follow the law. Absent compliance and under these circumstances there is not a lot of enforcement capacity vested in the Congress.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. just shouting that from the rooftops would be the start of actually doing something

I will endorse ANY attempt to move things along. No matter how outside the box things may at first seem, SOMEthing's gotta happen and happen damned soon.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. You could do that .... you could start talking about impeachment ......

..... you could start demanding criminal charges be issued by Justice (even in the face of their dissembling at Gonzo's direction) .....

The LAST thing we need to do is hold more non binding stupid show votes.

And unless I am wrong, Congress on its own can issue contempt of Congress charges.

[leftchick]

5. condi says she can't show, needs to shop for shoes

congress says okie dokie. :eyes:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

6. Ask the masters' boy, Gonzo!!!

Does Congress have a right to ask for appointment of a special or independent counsel where there is a conflict of interest in ALL the executive offices (via conspiracy or RICO or Hatch Act)?

[originalpckelly]

14. I think it would be a scary escalation to have the Capitol Police raid the White House.

It might be an excuse for Cheney to implement martial law.

[LSK]

17. Gonzo will get right on that

[kestrel91316]

19. Yeah! What Stinky said.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. I accept your apology

Unconditionally. :hi: