Why do most people think that 'closing the borders' is the best option to stop illegal immigration?

[Dawgs]

If the jobs are still available, won't they just find another way around?

[NewJeffCT]

1. that's what the media tells people

is the best option. It fits the image of poor Mexicans sneaking across the border in the dead of night under horrific conditions just to come to the great country of America.

To me, the best way to stop illegal immigration is to get a lot of high profile prosecutions of some big illegal alien employers - you know, actually enforce the laws on the books. But, what do I know?

[Dawgs]

2. Exactly.

Just look at Cuba; if the people want to leave, a fence(or 90 miles of ocean) won't stop them.

The only way to stop them is to stop the illegal employers from giving them jobs.

[potisok]

4. So true

"actually enforce the laws on the books"

Have you lost your mind????

I often ponder the same thought.

:sarcasm:

[SteelPenguin]

6. Exactly

They do very little it seems to the businesses that hire illegal workers, who hide behind sloppy forms and fake identification. Heck, many of these illegals pay taxes on their fake social security numbers. Does the IRS do anything about this extra income? Do they report it to the INS? To the businesses involved?

The only worry I have about our borders is security, not from people coming here to work, but people trying to sneak into this country. Heck it's how I'd do it if I had a bunch of islamic fundies coming from Afghanistan who wouldn't even be allowed on airplanes to get over here. Legal Boat to Mexico, hop the boat before shore if necessary, though probably not, then up across the border. I know it's a RW terror talking point with little basis in reality, but I don't think some sensor packages along the border would be the worst thing in the world.

Then if you open the border essentially to mexicans coming north, they wouldn't die in the desert or cross in those places anyway.

Enforce the laws on the books. Heck most companies buy their software they use because they're too afraid of having the hammer come down on their company if it's found out they're using unliscenced software. If they can do it for SQL Server they should be able to do it for workers...How bout a workers Brady Bill so to speak where there are instant social security checks, which validates a number, or raises red flags with INS if the number is applying for disparate jobs, etc, if it's a dupe. Something like that.

Then we can deal with the issue of how many people we want and need to come here to work, and get them on the legal roles so they're protected by laws and get decent wages.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. there already is a SS# check system like that...

http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm

There are two Internet verification options you can use to verify that your employee names and Social Security numbers match Social Security's records. You can:


Verify up to 10 names and SSNs (per screen) online and receive immediate results. This option is ideal to verify new hires.

OR

Upload overnight files of up to 250,000 names and SSNs and usually receive results the next government business day. This option is ideal if you want to verify an entire payroll database or if you hire a large number of workers at a time.

[treestar]

3. The borders are closed

And the country is too big for "sealing" them.

It only restricts workers, while capitalists aren't. All countries ought to realize this, but especially the U.S.

If their jobs aren't available, the jobs of Americans higher up in the chain will lapse. Why do people have a hard time with that?

Any job one of these aliens does generates other jobs due to their consumption here, and due to their employer's supplying itself here.

They'll kill the economy in the name of keeping all the workers in their nice little set aside geographical areas. Six million people going from the U.S. to Mexico means more than the loss of 6 million low end jobs here. With those jobs go the upper jobs. If I have to let go of ten of my lowest paid employees, that generally means their supervisor is gone, too. No, there isn't some unemployed US native out there to replace those ten people.

Just give a visa to whoever can land a job. That way, all the protections apply to them and they can't undercut the U.S. worker on price, which should mean any concerns about replaced Americans are void.

We have to compete with the foreigner too, period. It's just reality. These restrictions hobble the worker only. The capitalist goes wherever he pleases. These restrictions help him keep the upper hand.

[Dawgs]

9. My point is that 'a wall' is not going to stop people from coming to America illegally.

And, the reason they are coming is because of jobs.

[treestar]

12. I don't think a wall for that length of border is very practical, either

People come on boats, too, and that would just increase.

There would be a way under or over the wall. Never forget human ingenuity. And it would have to be a long, long, long wall. Somehow seems pathetic for the supposedly strongest country on earth.

In fact, there are walls in some places - I've seen photos of them. They may as well have a sign on them, in Spanish, saying "if you are able bodied enough to get over this wall, there's work for you on the other side."

It is our fault we purposely leave these people in a status that is "illegal" by simply legislating restrictions so they can't qualify to come through a border checkpoint legally. knowing we can't enforce these laws because no wall can be effective enough, for the sole purpose of having a labor force with no rights.

Besides the idea of the walls is so unAmerican somehow. It just feels Soviet and East German and just goes against the grain of what the US is.

[johncoby2]

5. How do you close the Canadian border?

[SteelPenguin]

8. With Real Honest Americans

Like this guy!

[pampango]

7. People have believed in the magic of walls for centuries.

Just ask the Chinese.

It also allows Americans to focus on the actions of foreigners rather than those of other Americans. Most people in the world would rather blame foreigners for their problems. Some Europeans blame Muslim immigrants, the Israelis blame Arabs, Arabs blame Israelis, Japanese blame Koreans, Filipinos blame Chinese and Indian businessmen, we blame Chinese and Indian factory and service workers and now Mexican immigrants.

It is easier to say that "they" should just leave "us" alone, that we would be fine if it were not for people who are not like us causing us all kinds of problems. It makes people believe that building walls to keep out foreign people and goods would allow us to solve problems that are currently caused by "those" people, meaning foreigners.

[zabet]

11. I think...

that we need to enforce the existing laws. No law is worth the paper it is written on if it is not enforced. I have absolutely no issue at all with immigrants as long as they follow the legal path to get here. I do take issue with illegals coming here, working tax free and sending what they make back to Mexico - this amount is second only to what money is made off of the oil Mexico sells!!!! Illegals here support the economy there - not here.
I honestly believe we need to just enforce the existing laws before we jump to write more that will not be enforced.

[pingzing58]

13. The laws are unenforceable same as the AG's of Utah and Arizona not prosecuting polygamists. nt

[guitar man]

14. It's not very smart

we could be building our own prison if we're not careful.

A smarter solution would be to get double tough on those that are hiring the illegals. But gods no that's not going to happen, heaven help us if we ever got tough on the wealthy in this country....:eyes: