The "we have to find a political solution" meme is getting on my last fucking nerve!!!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

Iraqis are living in a worn-torn country being controlled by political figures backed by the warring occupiers.

Iraqis are living in a CULTURALLY TORN environment exacerbated by political figures backed by the occupiers.

The BASIC SOCIAL/SURVIVAL NEEDS of the Iraqis are so damned bad that nearly anyone with the means to get out,...have left or are leaving.

Iraqis KNOW their sovereign resources are being exploited with little to no benefit to them.

Iraqis have overwhelmingly stated their opposition to all of the above.

WHAT, precisely, does the "political solution" meme mean (e.g. WTF are the US politicos talking about) and HOW does that so-called 'solution' INTEGRATE with the cultural and social make-up of the Iraqi people?

Personally, the talk of a "political solution" is MORE BS demagoguery, to me, ESPECIALLY when we Americans have accepted 'politics' as something completely detached from best interests OF, BY AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

:rant:
(what inspired my frustration is two-fold: whenever I hear a lot of politicos and media 'hos' using the same "meme", I get suspect; and,...when I hear the Bushie's say something like, ",...deciding to arm insurgents is part of a plan towards a 'political solution', I get disgusted.

That's all.

[Solly Mack]

1. I'm in that boat with you

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

3. As if WE can offer a "political solution". Worse, we won't even acknowledge the humanitarian,...

,...issues at hand in our own country and sure as hell MUST avoid the suffering imposed upon the Iraqi men, women and children by our own government via use of force: militarily, economically and socially.

I 'skimmed' an article about our soldiers along with US-backed Iraqi forces drawn to tears by children starving to death in an orphanage. My first thought was, how do their tears acknowledge those responsible for a worn-torn country that was unlawfully invaded, its entire government and infrastructure DESTROYED, its cultural and educational and social fabric BURIED, its valuable resources being STOLEN,...any better? My tears do not make any of that better.

I'll be honest that I am MERELY SPECULATING as I imagine what would make a difference to me, as an Iraqi with respect to US occupation; but, I offer the following speculations, if I were in their shoes:

* GIVE ME BACK MY ABILITY TO HAVE A ROLE IN REBUILDING MY COUNTRY (DON'T ARM MORE PEOPLE, HERE)!!!
* GIVE ME BACK MY ABILITY TO MAKE A LIVING IN MY OWN COUNTRY (get your fucking money-mongers out of here)!!!!
* GIVE ME BACK MY ABILITY TAKE OWNERSHIP IN MY OWN COUNTRY (the oil is OUR resource NOT YOURS)!!!!
* GIVE ME BACK MY POWER TO BUILD COMMUNITIES (STOP DIVIDING US)!!!
* GIVE ME BACK MY BORDERS!!!!!
* GIVE ME BACK MY FREEDOM TO CHOOSE!!!!
* GIVE ME BACK ALL THE MONEY REQUIRED TO RESTORE ALL YOU DESTROYED!!!!
* GIVE ME YOUR PROMISE TO RESPECT US AS A SOVEREIGNTY AND GET THE HELL OUT!!!

[watrwefitinfor]

7. Please delete - replied to wrong post

Wat

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. You suggestions are all 'political solutions'

A political solution is 'not a military solution'. Those are indeed the kind of political solutions Iraqis want.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

11. Why and how? What do you define as "political"?

WHAT IS 'POLITICAL'?

What about social,...SOCIAL SOLUTIONS?

"POLITICAL" serves WHOM?

I am talking about FACTUAL APPLICATION,...not some idealistic notion that NO LEADER ACTS UPON.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

15. Please, come back. Is your life ONLY political? n/t

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

16. A LOT of people AVOID political participation? Did you know that?

Why would they do that?

Come back. I want to talk about this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. The changes you talked about come through politics

Giving people an ability to rebuild their country, make a living, and take ownership - this is all political. It's about how the country is organised, who has what power, what is done by central or local government, what individuals can own or organise. The ability to do these things will be sorted out by getting the various factions and interests to have reasons to stop the current conflict. 'Borders' and 'freedom to choose' are political too. "Give me back all the money" - you don't get more political than decisions about where money is sent. "Respect us as a sovereignty" is intensely political. "Building communities" is better described as 'social', I'll admit, but getting to a situation where people can do that requires political work.

[opihimoimoi]

2. All talk...no Walk

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

5. I don't mean to offend you when I say, there's a LOT of walk,...

,...or, rather, ACTION. However, that 'action' is to the SOLE BENEFIT of corporacrats that BUY control over this nation via elected officials.

I swear to God I never believed our nation was so pitiful that I'd call it a "CORPORATE STATE" (e.g. fascist regime). But, in spite of the fact that so many others have said things like, "You don't see mass jailings or killings associated with a fascist regime", I SAY:

Just because mass manipulation has been successful to date (and WE ARE LIVING IN AN AGE OF MASS CORPORATE MANIPULATION), does not mean the mass jailings and killings would not take place should THE PEOPLE decide this government has become an enemy of a democratic institution of, by and for the people!!! You would see MASS jailings and killings; AND, if you doubt that,...you are in denial about just how powerful your own government has become,...AGAINST YOU."

[Redbear]

4. A political solution has been needed since before this war began.

It has now reached the end of the cycle where the chattering class:
first calls an idea laughable and any one who proposes it is an idiot,

then they call it impractical and anyone who thinks it can actaully be done is an idiot,

then all of a sudden they ALL decide it is obviously must be done immediately and anyone who cant see that is an idiot.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

6. If you are saying a 'political solution' was appropriate HERE IN OUR USA,...

,...I agree, completely.

Back when 'political solutions' involved the best interests of human beings, in addition to FACTS,...I'd say that meme MEANT something.

These days, words are meaningless because they are utilized, strictly, to manipulate minds rather than support democratic and humanitarian ideals.

[TwilightGardener]

8. How can the seeking of a political solution (rather than a military one) be viewed as a

negative? I don't get you. A political solution is really code for religious/tribal cooperation, as well as regional involvement that helps keep the peace. If properly implemented, it would get Sunnis, Shia and Kurds to stop engaging in civil war, fight Al Qaeda, and actually build some sort of lasting stability in the region. So now we should give up on that too? WTF is left?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

9. Believe it or not, most people live OUTSIDE/BEYOND politics,... they live in a social environment.

OH!!! I know!!! The mention of 'social' or 'society' has been rendered BAD, BAD, BAD by those who profit off a bright-line division between serving society and serving individualism.

Get it?

Our politics SERVE the INDIVIDUALS who most benefit OFF society. Our politics calls people who are sick or oppressed or needy, "welfare queens" and "frauds" and "scum" and "lazy" and "burdens" and (enter the most selfish, greedy, heartless and empty characterization HERE).

[TwilightGardener]

12. Honestly, I think the use of the word "political" here is very broad in its meaning--

I don't think it's being used in the same context as, say, the inner workings of Congress in the U.S. It's just the word being used to signify diplomacy, give-and-take and compromise between various factions.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

13. Which is why I object to a meme that FAILS to acknowledge the facts.

The facts are:

The USA waged war ILLEGALLY.
The USA is occupying a nation, ILLEGALLY.
The USA IS MAKING MATTERS WORSE, BY ITS VERY PRESENCE.
The USA IS TRYING TO CONTROL THE NATURAL RESOURSES OF A COUNTRY IT OCCUPIES, ILLEGALLY.
The USA FAILS TO MAKE LIFE BETTER FOR A NATION IT SWEARS TO MAKE BETTER
The USA is doing NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to give back soveignty to Iraq.
The USA is spending fucking BILLIONS to profiteers to 'secure and rebuild' Iraq, denying both ITS military and the Iraqi people APPROPRIATE RESPECT for their dedication.

I mean, what the fuck!!!

ALL OF THE FOREGOING IS "POLITICAL"!!!

IT IS NOT A SOLUTION. IT IS PROFITEERING OFF POLITICS.

What part of the foregoing is confusing?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

14. Oh,...and, I have no doubt the 'meme' of "political solutions" is being popularly adopted by,...

,...anyone seeking control rather than an earnest pursuit of solutions.

After all, if ANY human sincerely sought resolution, s/he would avoid spewing the latest 'fad' and offer something real. On the other hand,...if our media dictates what we are,...we prefer ESCAPE FROM FREEDOM, ESCAPE FROM REALITY. If that is the case, as it may be,...

[bigtree]

17. well, we're relying on a political system to effect the accountability we seek

and folks keep insisting on promoting a generic call for impeachment as a remedy for all of that.

Impeachment would occur in our POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS. The judges and juries in that case would render POLITICAL judgments, not necessarily fine points of law that proponents claim they are concerned with.

It always amazes me when folks say they expect our legislators to operate without regard to 'politics'. That's the inherent nature of our political institutions. That process ultimately revolves around votes. The ONLY aspect to that process which intends to b apolitical is the process of investigations which intend to gather evidence toward an outside prosecution which would lead to an indictment in an actual court of law with consequences beyond a hovel of politicians and their POLITICAL votes.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

18. You are,...inadvertently, I'm sure, changing the subject.

On the other hand, I did invite THE FACT THAT our own political process is so effed up that,...

,...the meme about a 'political solution' is just plain, BULLSHIT.

What I am challenging is ALL THOSE who are utilizing that 'meme', that demagoguery, to EXPLAIN what the hell they are talking about (beyond arms and bombs UNLESS,..."political solutions" ARE ALWAYS ABOUT THE RULE OF FORCE RATHER THAN LAW,...WHICH, THEY WOULD NEVER EVER BE TRUTHFUL ABOUT THAT :rofl:)

[bigtree]

24. our courts operate under a strict adherence to the law

our political institutions which are run by politicians operate, primarily, on politics. That's the nature of our political system. Generating support and voting is the function and currency of our political institutions. It's no mere meme that the political process must be adhered to to effect the changes we seek . . . it's reality.

[Clark2008]

19. Except that we DO need to find a political, rather than military, solution.

It's the only way we're going to get out of there.

We tore that country apart and we're bound to repair it in some way before we leave - it's part of the Geneva Conventions.

The sad part is that this administration and most of Congress wouldn't know how to find a political, rather than military, solution with both hands and a map.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

21. Please,....please, please, please DEFINE "political"!!!

NO ONE SEEMS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT "POLITICAL" HAS NO-THING TO DO WITH PEOPLE!!!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Yes it does

It comes from the Greek word 'politikos', defined in the OED as "belonging to the state or its administration, political, relating to public life, of or relating to citizens, civic, civil", which comes from 'polites' - citizen. It's about the interaction of people and the state.

[fishnfla]

20. I vote for political over military too-sorry

words and negotiatians over bombs and bullets.

Pay people off if you have to, whatever it takes

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

22. *grrrrr*

WHAT IS "POLITICAL",...

,...TO YOU?

Define it. What substance does "political" have to people?

[rucky]

23. Political Solution is easy.

We are the political problem. We get the hell out, and problem solved.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

25. I'll agree with,..."we are the political problem",...

,...

BUT, the meme of "political solution" STILL isn't being confronted.

:wtf: I still challenge the meme of all those TALKING 'political solution' with arms and bombs and propaganda. WHAT is the "political solution", ALL YOU TALKING POINTS POSITION-AIRES?!!!!