I'm ready for the maverick Presidency of Gravel-Paul-Kucinich - are you?

[Robson]

I'm actually for some major changes and no DLC. I don't support candidates who support ideologies that cause Americans to be made downtrodden while the elitist candidates are propelled higher.

I do believe that the USA needs some major major changes in politics that at least starts a trend that favors the economic position of the USA lower, and the middle class, instead of the propelling the elitists that pay only 15% on their earnings even higher, while low paid wage earners who are paid far less must pay 30%.

I also propose that the USA should not subsidize elitist well to do people in the Middle East such as Israel or Saudi Arabia that have friends in the power in influential places.

[whistle]

1. You want three presidents?

[Robson]

13. Actually just one good President.

I'd take anyone of these.

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Why do you like Paul? Is it his bigotry? His anti-choice votes? Or is it only

that he's against the US occupation?

You don't mention Buchanan. He's against the occupation. So why not?

[Robson]

29. I like him and others because they are out of the box

Our country has reached a critical mass point where it needs big time thinkers that put the needs of the country first...not the needs of their party or the needs of big business. That's why a unitary leadership that crossed party lines might help.

I see most of the candidates as more of the same do as I say, not as I do attitude.

Do you believe that any one of them understand or even sympathize with the real world problems of 95% of Americans?

[John Q. Citizen]

32. You should go with Pat Buchanan. He's against the occupation, he's an

outsider, and he's also opposed to choice, Medicare, and Social Security just like R. Paul.

He's also got a lot more experience running for president. If wanting to outlaw abortian, end social security and Medicade, and bigotry is putting the country first, well, more power to you but I think that's insane, criminally insane.

My guess is you aren't a woman, a senior, a poor person, or a person of color.

I support and intend to vote for Kucinich in the primaries. He's not a bigot, he's a lefty.

So am I.

[Robson]

35. As I said I'd vote for any of the three

I see positives that the USA needs in each of them. I'd like to see a consolidation of power between them and it could be Dennis/Mike; Mike /Ron; Ron/Dennis or any other combination. To be 100% honest I actually see a few positives in Buchanan too, he is not all negatives, but he'd not run.

I'd like to see a non-party, non big media, non big business approved candidate...is that wrong?

[John Q. Citizen]

38. Paul is wrong on everything, except Iraq. It's a free country (supposedly)

support a bigot if you believe it's in your best interests.

But I never will support a bigoted rightwing nutcase.

[Robson]

41. Big media paid by special interests to discredit all of them.

Sorry I don't buy the bigot label. The US media is attempting to discredit him because he has gained support over the bought and paid for media proclaimed mainstream candidates. There are bigots on both sides, but Paul isn't one of them.

[Selatius]

46. Paul being a bigot is disputable, but his position on gutting Social Security/Medicare isn't

You're simply better off voting for Kucinich over Paul if you want to not only save the lives of soldiers but also save the social safety net that helps millions out of poverty each year.

[Robson]

50. One thing I like about Paul

He puts the Constitution at the top of the importance heap. We've seen under Bush just how important it is to have a POTUS that truly respects the Constitution. I'm not saying Paul is without fault. I'm just saying I like this aspect of him very much.

[tbyg52]

71. If he can in (virtually) one breath

Say that drugs should be legalized because it's *your* body, then that abortion should be tightly controlled if not actually banned (which I heard not a month ago on a talk show), then I don't trust the way his mind works.

[hfojvt]

75. both Gravel and Paul seem to be libertarians

I don't need big media to discredit them, their ideology does that for me.

[Faryn Balyncd]

56. Here's 10 issues Ron Paul supports besides peace. What's your position on these?

American Freedom Agenda


1. Prohibit military commissions whose verdicts are suspect except in places of active hostilities where a battlefield tribunal is necessary to obtain fresh testimony or to prevent anarchy;

2. Prohibit the use of secret evidence or evidence obtained by torture or coercion in military or civilian tribunals;

3. Prohibit the detention of American citizens as unlawful enemy combatants without proof of criminal activity on the President’s say-so;

4. Restore habeas corpus for alleged alien enemy combatants, i.e., non-citizens who have allegedly participated in active hostilities against the United States, to protect the innocent;

5. Prohibit the National Security Agency from intercepting phone conversations or emails or breaking and entering homes on the President’s say-so in violation of federal law;

6. Empower the House of Representatives and the Senate collectively to challenge in the Supreme Court the constitutionality of signing statements that declare the intent of the President to disregard duly enacted provisions of bills he has signed into law because he maintains they are unconstitutional;

7. Prohibit the executive from invoking the state secrets privilege to deny justice to victims of constitutional violations perpetrated by government officers or agents; and, establish legislative-executive committees in the House and Senate to adjudicate the withholding of information from Congress based on executive privilege that obstructs oversight and government in the sunshine;

8. Prohibit the President from kidnapping, detaining, and torturing persons abroad in collaboration with foreign governments;

9. Amend the Espionage Act to permit journalists to report on classified national security matters without fear of prosecution; and;

10. Prohibit the listing of individuals or organizations with a presence in the United States as global terrorists or global terrorist organizations based on secret evidence.

http://www.americanfreedomagenda.org/

These 10 points don't even mention Iraq.

They primarily relate to civil liberties, the rule of law, and the abuse of presidential power.

Ron Paul is the first presidential candidate from either party to endorse this cluster of statutes to restore checks and balances, and reverse the abuses of presidential power of the Bush-Cheney administration.

By the way, the 4 conservatives behind this agenda include 2 (constitutional lawyer Bruce Fein, and Richard Viguerie) who, during the 2006 campaign, openly supported Democratic victory.

[NYCGirl]

68. And he opposes stem cell research, affirmative action, he's against

abortion, and he favors the right of the individual to carry concealed weapons.

http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=296

[AtomicKitten]

80. it's those teensy details

people conveniently or carelessly overlook

[Robson]

81. Sorry some have been told how to think , let's hope not all

We should think for ourselves....not how others tell us...whether the left or right.

I have this major bias against big media and big political pundits and their gurus that tell us how we should think and vote.

Personally I would never say that those who support other than Dennis K, M. Gravel, and R. Paul are totally wrong in their positions. But I would say we need candidates that are not the same ole same ole. Does anyone dispute that? Or...how many believe we need a continuation of the pro business dynasty of Bush and Clinton?

[Jonathan50]

91. Ron Paul is against one of the most bigoted things out there..

The War On (some) Drugs..

The one which sends millions of black men to prison ...

But of course, you don't care about that.

[John Q. Citizen]

99. You vote for Paul, I'll vote for Kucinich. W. F. Buckley is also opposed to

the war on drugs, too bad you can't vote for him, but I guess you can write his name in, if you are determined to support right wingers.

What bill did Paul introduce to exit Iraq, to impeach, or to end the war on drugs in the last 4 years?

Has Paul signed on to co-Spencer HR 1234, Kucinich's bill to withdraw ALL American troops from Iraq? Has Paul called to impeach bush or Chaney? Has Paul signed on as a co-sponsor of Kucinich's HR333? If not, why not. Isn't Paul prepared to call for the impeachment of war criminals?

No, I'll vote for a progressive, you can vote for the constititionalist nut job who also proposes abolishing Social Security, Medicade, the UN, and the list goes on. It's a free country, vote for what you want to see happen.

[Phrogman]

47. Having 3 presidents is a very good idea!

A "Lefty", a "Liberal" and a "Progressive.

[leftchick]

2. Fuck Yes!

the Face of the DLC by the way is....





:scared:

[IndyOp]

4. MY EYES! MY EYES!

I feel faint...

:puke:

[Phrogman]

44. Your post cuts through the bullshit like a hot knife!

thats EXACTLY what the corporate selected candidates are being "picked" to do.

[Vincardog]

3. I got your back

[More Than A Feeling]

5. That trio was made for reality tv.

They'll be perfect for a reality tv nation.

[LeftishBrit]

26. LOL!

'Presidential Survivor' - who will get thrown off the island first?

Trouble is that ALL the candidates might get thrown off the island!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

6. Greed has choked the life out of any possibility for pioneers UNLESS,...

,...the people confront and challenge the current state of the union. The people don't seem any-where-near the point of confrontation let alone challenge. But, I could be wrong,...I HOPE I AM WRONG.

[Robson]

9. Remember the ORANGE CRUSH in Ukraine?

We're not there yet, but we had better start thinking about it. It would be nice to think that one party has the interests of the people. If not we might have to twist some arms, but that means forgetting about all the trivial stuff that the mainstream media puts in our face.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

17. How's Ukraine doing these days?

:shrug:

I guess I've become,...well,...feeling damned along with the rest of the world, at this point.

Look, the corporacrats have US ALL by the 'balls' (so to speak, or 'vagina', if that's being more fair) and, the whole of humanity WANTS A PEACEFUL MEANS TOWARDS RECONCILIATION. However, these greedy effers have the resources of both the most economically powerfully AND the most DESTRUCTIVE force to impose upon the rest of humanity.

SO,...until the people (ours, theirs and the rest) are prepared to do a bloody resistence beyond the years of Gandhi and MLK,...we are fucked.

I don't see "ours" up for challenging the corporacracy. I see "theirs and the rest" being destroyed every damned day. ANY LEADER seeking to empower his/her people to stand up for their own freedom and power and democracy is being succinctly destroyed, one way or another.

Me,...I often figure I'd be better off, journalizing this period of history while protecting my ability to do so as long as possible.

[pop goes the weasel]

48. ovaries

penis=vagina
testicles=ovaries

Goodness, what a sad state sex ed has fallen to in these here United States.

[amandabeech]

87. You mean we need the U.S. to help us put into power a U.S.-friendly

government?

That was a cold war move, just like the attempted revolution in Serbia and the Tulip Revolution in Georgia.

It's one reason why Putin is so pissed.

[lonestarnot]

94. Suits me just fine!

:9

[Hamlette]

7. did you see Ron Paul on Colbert? Colbert did an excellent job of showing how crazy he is

by asking if he would eliminate the Dept of education, internal revenue, health and human services, FEMA, the UN....etc. Paul said yes to every one. When asked about Unicef he said he might reluctantly keep it but the churches do a better job at caring for people without.

So, if you thought it was wonderful before FDR, he's your guy. If you want to return to orphanages, no labor laws, the freaking gold standard...vote for Paul

Yes, he's right on the war but as far as I can see that is the ONLY thing he is right about.

[Robson]

8. BTW he voted against the Patriot Act while Hillary etc. bent over and voted for it like a Bushie

We need major changes. We need a unity government. We need a Constitutional government. We don't need a Hillary and the DLC government.

If it was up to me I'd like to see all three in extremely high positions in place of the institutional approved candidates that receive top billing. I'd pull names out of the hat as anyone of these would defend our rights and the economic position of most Americans better than the RNC or DLC.

[Robson]

14. I call it out of the box thinking

We need out of the box thinking, not more of the same ole Council of Foreign Relations BS that has controlled our policies.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

61. Stephen unfortunately didn't ask Paul about abortion. Paul is Anti-Choice. eom

[DemBones DemBones]

63. Never mind, I doubt you'd understand.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

65. Thanks for the snarky response. eom

[DemBones DemBones]

67. You're welcome. You would not have liked what

I had written and I didn't want to hijack the thread. But if you want to know, the first thing I said was that if Ron Paul is "Anti-Choice" then you're "Anti-Life." I'm sure he'd be glad to say he's Anti-Abortion but you wouldn't want to say you're Pro-Abortion.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

70. Big difference. I am Pro-Choice. Have an abortion or don't have an abortion, it is a woman's Choice.

Personally, when I was in child bearing years and if I found that I had an unwanted pregnancy I don't think I would have Chosen to have an abortion. That would have been My Choice. Ron Paul does not want to give women that Choice.

[DemBones DemBones]

78. You can believe that but it's unfair to call anyone "Anti-Choice"

when they disagree with you. Ron Paul opposes the war and probably euthanasia. I don't know his stand on the death penalty. But he IS Pro-Life because he opposes war as well as abortion (and probably euthanasia.)

You know abortion is wrong, that's why you wouldn't have chosen one, but do you want to do anything about it? A lot of things could be done to reduce unwanted pregnancies and thus to reduce the number of abortions.

It's too bad women aren't clamoring for that, that we have been indoctrinated that abortion is a choice we should be allowed to make, even a "right." We've been programmed for the past 35 years to consider the legal killing of our unborn children as a feminist victory. Over a million and a half children have been killed every year since Roe. Some victory.

[Robson]

83. My opinion is who cares about abortion when the country is being turned upside down?

Abortion and choice are devisive issues, just like gay marriage, and used to sway voters that need to focus on what is really going on with our country. I don't see either as defining the Democratic Party.

My own opinion is that both of these issues aren't in top issues of what Americans feel are important....even though I personally can somewhat identify with those who do.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. Ron Paul is right about the war, right about our Imperialism and in fact gave a floor speech

talking about and warning the House about PNAC. After that, quite frankly, he will be as divisive as the issues of gay marriage and abortion. He is a wrongwing Libertarian who believes in very little government at all. We are talking about the stuff that can also make a revolution here. He doesn't believe in public assistance, medicare, social programs, college funding, etc. He also raised his hand at the debate, agreeing about the no-tell policy on Gays in the military. That is much different than gay marriage. He has also made racist remarks. His kind of government can finish the job of destroying us.

[tbyg52]

73. I'm "Pro-Abortion"!

If the abortion in question is one that a woman chooses for herself.

I'm very leery of people who do not understand that it is MY BODY. What else will they feel justified sticking their noses into?

That's not to say I would have one, and that's not to say I would not look askance on late-term abortions used as a form of birth control. But the bottom line is WHOSE BODY IS IT? According to the law, that body and all it contains should belong to the person whose body it is. Period.

[DemBones DemBones]

79. When your body is housing a new human life,

society has a right to consider the well-being of that person as well as your well-being. You are not allowed to strangle a newborn or a two year-old because s/he is "yours." Why should you be allowed to kill an unborn baby?

Pregnant women should receive medical treatment needed to save their lives even if it endangers the baby's life. But deliberate killing of the baby, ie., abortion, is wrong.

There has been a change in this country since Roe. Many people look on children as an inconvenience and so they dispose of them.

Most of DU mourns for the war dead, for murdered children, for dead pets, but thinks over a million and a half abortions a year are just fine. That's a symptom of a sickness in our society.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

82. It is not unfair to call him anti-choice as he is. And as to your personal views on abortion, they

are yours, and you IMHO are decidedly anti-choice too.

It will be a sad day in America if Roe is knocked down. I get the impression that you are too young or were not even born when abortions were illegal. Women died or many maimed to the point that having a wanted pregnancy in the future was impossible. I do not ever, ever want to see those days again. And how about rape? Must a women bear a child that was a result of a criminal act? Are you going to raise that child? Are you going to take all of the UNWANTED, UNLOVED children under Your wing, nurture them, provide for them, give them all of the care they will need. Love all of them? Do you have adopted children now? Are you walking the walk or are you just talking the talk?

[mdmc]

92. hello!

:hi:

I'm not so big on Paul's positions as much as his straight talk. I love to hear from the real deals and I hate to hear from the phonies.

Hope all is well in your neck of the woods:pals:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

97. Hello right back! I thought about you this morning!

The local NBC Today show had Newburgh on this AM! They were showing a historical place where Geo. Washington was stationed. They even had on your Mayor! Isn't he the cool guy who performed gay marriages until he was made to stop?

All is well here and I hope the same goes back to you!!!
:hi: :hug:

[mdmc]

101. Was it about upgrading our waterfront property?

NewPaltz, not Newburgh, had the gay marriage deal-i-o.

We are in the process of revamping our waterfront. Layland Alliance is doing the planning, and it looks like Newburgh will have a chic Manhattan style waterfront very soon.

Peace and low stress.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

104. No, it was a Father's Day thing. ie Geo Washington was the Father of our Country! They did

mention about how Newburgh is really becoming quite the place.

Sorry about the mistake about the Mayor!

Peace and low stress right back at you!

[Zomby Woof]

102. It's just parroting Catholic dogma

She wouldn't hold such opinions if the Pope didn't give the green light. There's no real moral or logical core to her arguments, just the parroting of her church's dogma.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

105. I don't think it is only Catholic dogma. Many fundamentalist Christians also

believe this. And it is their right to believe what they wish. Just don't make their anti-choice belief system oppress my own.

As to the poster being a She? I have a feeling the poster is a He. I have found through my lifetime that the most outspoken anti-choice people are men.

[tbyg52]

90. I certainly disapprove of people who don't take care of their kids

And, frankly, I disapprove of abortion in all but medically necessary cases, or *very* early term.

That does not alter the fact that if it is in my body it is me, and only I should have control over it. Anything else is a slippery slope.

I'll give you an analogy. I may be a match for a person who needs a kidney to live, but nobody is going to kidnap me and force me to donate.

My reaction to the old men (and that's mostly who is saying it, it seems to me) who say they are against abortion is: "Fine. Don't have one."

[DemBones DemBones]

62. Do you think the Dept. Of Homeland Security is worth the money going into it?

What about FEMA? FEMA and the Dept. of Education didn't exist until the Carter administration and I can't see that they've done much good. Labor laws aren't doing much good now, either.

As for the gold standard, doesn't it concern you a bit that paper money isn't backed by gold, that the government just prints money and people agree it's worth something because the government says it is. Will that last?

I'm not at all sure that doing away with federal income taxes would allow people to pay their own medical bills and save enough to support themselves and pay their medical bills in old age. Medical costs and all other costs are much higher than they were when the IRS was set up in the Twenties.

In sum, I think Ron Paul is correct that we could do away with some agencies but am unsure and concerned about many of his other ideas concerning the economy. He certainly has the right position on the war, the PATRIOT Act, NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO, and restoring our civil liberties as guaranteed by the Constitution. It's good to have a Republican saying the same thing as Dennis Kucinich is.

Even if he's all wrong on the economic issues, he is encouraging people to think about them. The gold standard has been dead so long, and income taxes accepted so long, that I think it would be helpful to discuss them.

[bonito]

10. Agreed!

[Wwagsthedog]

11. You don't need to ask.

DK and Asphalt works for me.

[Renew Deal]

12. I'm all for big change.

It's been so long since we had a big thinker or even an inspirational president. I'm ready for a true leader. I don't think there are many running this time around.

[LeftishBrit]

15. Well, I suppose Paul-Kucinich would be the ultimate balanced ticket...

They would make Gore-Lieberman or Dukakis-Bentsen look like sweet happy unity in comparison.

I wonder if the Brits would consider a Tebbit-McDonnell ticket - Or just maybe not!

But I'd rather see far-rightists like Paul nowhere near any position of power!

[Robson]

20. Far rightists like Paul that voted against Iraq and the PA?

LB....Let's get real. Paul is not a far rightist. He voted against Bush on many issues that favors Americans such as Iraq War and the Patriot Act. He voted in favor of Americans, instead of having middle class Americans pay for neocon wet dreams of Wolfowicz in the Middle East.

Many of us don't support the USA taxpayer providing an un-ending stream of billions in funds for the mindless non-USA interests in the Middle East such as Israel and Saudis. All we need is a President who agrees.

[LeftishBrit]

22. And opposes all taxes, and is to the economic right of even most Republicans...

and hates welfare, and opposes women's right to choose?

I agree with him on the war and the Patriot Act - but LePen opposes the war too. People can be very right-wing, and yet be right on a single issue.

Here are a few quotes from a speech that Paul made in 2003 and still has *on his own official website* - so it's not a question of someone else mis-representing him:


A Republic, If You Can Keep ItDr. Ron PaulU.S. Representative from Texas

Address to the U.S. House of Representativesdelivered on the Floor of the House January 31 - February 2, 2000

....The modern-day welfare state has steadily grown since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The federal government is now involved in providing health care, houses, unemployment benefits, education, food stamps to millions, plus all kinds of subsidies to every conceivable special-interest group. Welfare is now part of our culture, costing hundreds of billions of dollars every year. It is now thought to be a "right," something one is "entitled" to. Calling it an "entitlement" makes it sound proper and respectable and not based on theft. Anyone who has a need, desire, or demand and can get the politicians' attention will get what he wants, even though it may be at the expense of someone else. Today it is considered morally right and politically correct to promote the welfare state. Any suggestion otherwise is considered political suicide.
.


....Controlled curricula have downplayed the importance of our constitutional heritage while indoctrinating our children, even in kindergarten, with environmental mythology, internationalism, and sexual liberation. Neighborhood schools in the early part of the 20th Century did not experience this kind of propaganda.


....It is now accepted that people who need (medical) care are entitled to it as a right. This is a serious error in judgment.


...
....The welfare system has mocked the concept of marriage in the name of political correctness, economic egalitarianism, and hetero-phobia.

[IndyOp]

24. Tebbit-McDonnell? Who? You've got people other than Tony Blair over there?

Sorry. Just felt compelled to demonstrate my American idiocy.

Hope all is well across the pond!

:hi:

[LeftishBrit]

25. It's slightly better since Blair said he's going; but Brown may be only slightly better

John McDonnell is one of our most left-wing Labour MPs. He tried to stand for the Labour leadership to succeed Blair, but couldn't get enough MPs to vote for him.

Norman Tebbit was an extremely right-wing member of Thatcher's cabinet, and is now a member of the House of Lords. He regards David Cameron, the current Tory leader, as far too liberal; and is generally well-known for his viciously hard-line views on all issues.

So that occurred to me as a British analogy for Kucinich-Paul.

Looking forward to the day when both our countries have better leadership!

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. NOT Ron Paul, thanks

[rurallib]

28. No kidding - Ron Paul is sort of right on one issue

but plenty fucked up on many, many others.

[LeftishBrit]

18. You think that someone who wants all taxes and welfare to be abolished...

is a friend of the middle class against the elitists?

Only the VERY rich could benefit from such policies.

[MGKrebs]

19. Gravel has the enigmatic video thing down cold.

http://prezvid.com/2007/06/15/gravel-against-the-elements/

[mzmolly]

21. Frankly, no.

I'm ready for Gore/??? or Obama/??? ;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Not In A Million Years. Not One Of Them Is Qualified/Capable, And One's A Republican.

No thanks.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. Clinton, Edwards, and Obama aren't qualified or capable. That's not stopping them.

I agree with you fully and completely about R. Paul by the way.

I'm glad he's opposed to the illegal occupation, but beyond that, he's a rightwing ashole scumbag. I can't see what anyone on DU see's in him.

He's anti choice, he's in favor of dismantling medicare and social security, and he's a bigot.

If they like Ron Paul, they should also like Pat Buchanon, IMHO. He's against the illegal occupation as well.

[MadHound]

66. And how exactly do you define qualified/capable

Hell, Kucinich has been right on target on every serious issue to come before this administration, meanwhile the "Big Three" either weren't on the scene or were bending over to appease Bushco and their corporate masters. Frankly I would much rather have somebody with that sort of wisdom and backbone in the WH than somebody who is willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of people on the altar of their political career.

[Robson]

84. Amen

That's my opinion also. Those politicos who were willing to sacrifice young Americans so they didn't lose an opportunity to the Whitehouse, don't deserve the Whitehouse. These are the same politicians that would vote to invade Iran because Bush says so.

That's why I respect those who went out on a limb. They voted against overwhelming politics and pressure to vote their conscience and brains. Did Hillary put herself out on such a limb?

[mdmc]

93. whoever gets the most votes / TSCOTUS support is qualified

Everyone is qualified. The next president will either be a little bit better then Bush, or a whole lot better then Bush.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Ron Paul's a bigot. .. NO THANK YOU. I could live with Gravel or Kucinich though.

jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Jun-07-07 11:18 AM
Original message
The wisdom of Ron Paul

“If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably-fleet-footed they can be.” (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

“Politically sensible blacks are outnumbered as decent people... Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.” (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

"We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such." (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

“Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action.” (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

“The Criminals who terrorize our cities - in riots and on every non-riot day - are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are.” (Victoria Advocate, 8/7/96)

“There is no such thing as a hate crime.” (Ron Paul: Political Action Report, 1/15/92)

A “free market provides for the poor...” (MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour, 10/24/88 on why he is against government assistance)

"Is bailing out people that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?” he asks. “Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?" (Washington Post, 7/9/06) (Paul voted against assistance to Katrina and Rita victims, even though some of his district is on the Texas coast.)

“I am opposed to any form of government health insurance as I am opposed to the taxes, regulations, licensing requirements, and monopolistic practices, which keep health costs higher than their true market value.” (CNN Presidential Questionnaire, 1988)

As for Social Security, "we didn't have it until 1935," Paul says. "I mean, do you read stories about how many people were laying in the streets and dying and didn't have medical treatment? …Prices were low and the country was productive and families took care of themselves and churches built hospitals and there was no starvation." (Washington Post, 7/9/06)

“Something must be done to phase out the government’s involvement in Social Security. Pension and annuity plans should be the concern of the people, not the government. Political control of these things will lead only to bankruptcy and misery for retired persons.” (CNN Presidential Questionnaire, 1988M)

“Immigrants can spread diseases for which we may have no immunity. There is also the question of crime and culture. Many immigrants come from countries with different legal structures and are not willing to behave in the way we expect American citizens to behave.” (Ron Paul Political Report, 3/15/92)

"The right of secession should be ingrained in a free society. There is nothing sacred about large units of government. And there is nothing wrong with loosely banding together small units of government. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, we too should consider it." From his newsletter in the early to mid 90s--sorry I don't have an exact date.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1061584

[firefox_fan]

33. Not sure...

Is he pro-choice and, if so, to what extent?

[jobycom]

76. Paul is strongly anti-choice, Kucinich is a recent convert to pro-choice

Paul believes that the federal government should stay out of everything except a woman's body, apparently.

Kucinich was very weak on choice up until he began campaigning in 2004. He started his campaign by dodging the question of abortion altogether, saying he didn't think abortion would be a big issue in the election. After being ridiculed for such a statement, he finally announced that after much soul searching and conversing with leaders of women's groups, he had changed his position on abortion, and was now pro-choice.

[firefox_fan]

77. So, Kucinich is now pro-choice, Romney anti-choice.

And all have had their insight around campaign time... Hmmm..

[Le Taz Hot]

34. I unerstand what you're saying

about the outside-the-box thinking. I'd eliminate Ron Paul from your list, though. The dude's an out-and-out racist. Although I do give him credit for being the Republicans' pain in the ass.

I like Gravel because, well, he's just out there and goddess knows he wouldn't do any worse that the piece of offal currently in the White House.

People who believe in the old Democratic values really need to look seriously at Kucinich. Don't let the DLC bloviating beltway boys decide for you with the, "he's unelectable." Remember, these same geniuses gave us Kerry who, they assured us, was "electable" and managed to lose to the worst president ever.

He voted "no" on the Patriot Act, the IWR, the Bankruptcy Bill, among many, many others. He was right then and he's right now.

[Robson]

36. Kucinich is a serious thinker

I like him. He's not a grandstander operating on hot air.

[TahitiNut]

40. He's one of the few who actually looks at the legislation before voting, imho.

I appreciate Kucinich especially because I understand his language - even some of the "star stuff" rhetoric. It sounds "too good to be true" to many, I suppose merely because they're untutored. (Hell, I can clearly remember 20 years ago when I was a corporate 'droid for 20 years and I'd laugh condescendingly at it myself. No more. Nope. I get it.)

[John Q. Citizen]

39. Actually, Kerry won. But I'm supporting Kucinich because he's got the ideas

that Americans support and agree with. I know I do.

[TahitiNut]

37. Kucinich is nowhere nearly as fringe as Gravel or Paul

Kucinich is very close to mainstream in a "New Deal"/FDR sense. It's just that we've moved so far to the right (and swallow the media spin) that some think he's radical. I seriously doubt that most who regurgitate the cheap shots have actually read his positions directly at all.

Gravel's taxation and economic positions are almost John Birch - stitched onto a social policy perspective that's not especially friendly to organized labor. Ron Paul is 'libertarian' in name only - Hayek would roll over in his grave to be associated with Paul's corporatist postures.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. You have it right -- Kucinich IS very close to mainstream in a "New Deal"/FDR sense.

It's just that we've moved so far to the right (and swallow the media spin) that some think he's radical. I seriously doubt that most who regurgitate the cheap shots have actually read his positions directly at all.

It amazes me how little support Kucinich gets at DU and how much Clinton, Edwards, and Obama get. Elect one of those three and it'll be "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

[Robson]

45. The media plays us as violins or as a pied piper, or puppeteer

We are manipulated and spoon fed what the big boys and girls in the media want us to hear and see. They use terms such as radical, wacko, racist to demean the candidates that haven't been annointed by king makers.

[TahitiNut]

54. The single most powerful motivation for BELIEVING anything is WANTING to believe it.

We don't believe what's true - we believe what's consistent with our desires. Sometimes that 'desire' is some self-image. I think the most disturbing 'truth' I've heard (as a people myself) is "people believe what they want to believe." (It's interesting that "they" is often used when we're not entirely comfortable accepting that WE are one of THEM.)

It's easier, I think, to believe that Kucinich is (in some all-powerful abstract term) 'unelectable' because we can then preemptively shift the blame for denying ourselves the candidate we want most to "those" who'd oppose him. It's a human habit to pretend we're taking CONTROL over our own condition by denying ourselves the fruits we want most. After all, if we actually made the effort and failed due to some opposition we'd then have to deal with the fact that our effort fell short of some opposing effort. THAT particular result is something we're accustomed to - we don't learn to do better; we just blame the evil "them" for taking control over whether we get what we want.

What's strange is I really don't know whether that's what I want to believe - but it must be.

Did that make sense??

(A course in Introspection, Sophomore Level.)

:evilgrin:

[DemBones DemBones]

60. I think you're right. It's amazing how many people say "I really like Kucinich but

he's unelectable." Damn it, if you like someone, if you believe he has the best positions on the issues, support him. Stop listening to the media spin about the electability of any candidate and support the candidate who will do what you want. Make him electable.

Unless the system is so corrupt that votes don't count at all, Kucinich is electable. All it takes is for people to realize that Clinton, Edwards, and Obama would not get our troops out of Iraq or repeal the PATRIOT Act and Kucinich would do so, as well as getting us out of NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the WTO. Once you realize that, why wouldn't you vote for Kucinich?

[Robson]

85. Yes it makes sense....even if you have second thoughts

The media makes us believe their propaganda. The effect on public policy has been documented since even before Hitler was put into power.

[DemBones DemBones]

58. When Kucinich announced the Articles of Impeachment against Cheney,

Dana Milbank (Keith Olbermann's favorite correspondent) wrote about it in the Washington Post. He made a big deal out of Kucinich delaying the scheduled press conference when it was revealed that Cheney had been taken to the hospital with a blood clot in his leg. Any sane person would think that that was the decent thing to do. CNN was announcing "BREAKING NEWS: Cheney rushed to hospital with blood clot." I saw it myself. But Milbank wrote that "everyone knew" it was just a "routine visit" in an attempt to discredit Kucinich for. . . what? Being sensitive to Cheney's health?

In the same column, Milbank managed to mention that Kucinich is short, for no apparent reason. Anyone who's watched a debate in 2004 or 2007 knows that and Kucinich has never tried to conceal it, as some politicians have. Dennis is 5'6" and proudly appears with his 6' tall wife, a beautiful woman who'd make an excellent First Lady. Her first summer out of high school, Elizabeth Kucinich worked with Mother Teresa in India, helping the poor. After earning her degree, she worked in Kenya, assisting with village planning. She would be more of an activist First Lady than any since Eleanor Roosevelt

Milbank also made a dig about Kucinich's hair being "plastered down with Bryll Cream." In 2004, Dennis was criticized for his flyaway mop of hair. Now that he's cut it shorter and is using gel or something on it, he's criticized for that.

"Journalists" have a clear agenda: marginalize Kucinich. The result is that they sound like catty girls in 7th grade.

[Phrogman]

43. HELL YEA, THIS IS THE TYPE OF THREAD WE NEED MORE OF!

support for the PEOPLES candidates!~

[DemBones DemBones]

64. Yes! Vote Kucinich 2008! Forget the corporate candidates, they'll only

let us down.

Kucinich won't accept donations from corporations, only from people. So, people, send him some $$$.

[TwilightGardener]

49. Nope--not ready for any of the above. Give me the front-runners, any day.

[Robson]

51. Gravel offers something that the others don't

He wants American voters to have the right of binding initiative when Congress and the POTUS don't take their responsibility to us with all seriousness, such as with Iraq.

Yes it would take a Constitutional Amendment, but I like it.

[TwilightGardener]

52. That's not a bad idea, although considering how, uh, uninformed

our fellow countrymen can be, it can also have downsides--not sure I want American Legion assholes like my neighbor up the street being able to directly influence policy, if I take the meaning of Gravel's proposal correctly. Either way, all three men have some good ideas and seem honest, but they are just not going to be plausible, electable candidates to me--not just because of the media's portrayal of them, but because I have heard them speak, and they are too far out of the mainstream for my comfort.

[Robson]

86. Doesn't gel with DNC

So based upon your position we should we have a poll tax that will prove that voters have both a strong interest in wanting to vote and having knowledge of the candidates. Others should step aside and be disqualified. Is that correct?

I could be wrong but the last thing I heard about elections was the Democratic Party opposed any constraints as to qualifications or citizenship so your opinion doesn't gel with the DNC.

Actually I support only qualified voters using voting methods that are above reproach.

[Redstone]

53. Fuck all that political stuff; I'm for it because it would be fun to watch.

Just like Ross Perot would have been. We don't get much value for our entertainment dollar from Washington these days.

Redstone

[Ilsa]

55. Ron Paul? Are you fucking kidding me?

He's my congresscritter and I never vote for him. He has some of the weirdest ideas.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DFW]

59. I'd be happy with just one maverick president:

Such as Howard Dean.

"To dream the impossible dream..........."

[dysfunctional press]

69. you forgot the sarcasm smilie- some people might think you were being serious...

you were joking, right?

[MadBadger]

72. No on all three.

[SOS]

74. Kucinich - yes

Gravel and Paul?

No thanks.

[wildbilln864]

88. HELL YES! That's a great idea! eom

[mdmc]

95. Please don't discuss Ron Paul - Ron Paul makes baby Jesus cry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1096671&mesg_id=1096671

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

96. Sorry I didn't see this thread in time to nominate!

Woot! Love it!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

98. So a curmudgeon, a racist, and a moonbat walk into a bar... n/t

[opihimoimoi]

100. Fuck it all, lets go with MONGO from RockRidge

[Zomby Woof]

103. Mongo just pawn in game of life!

:rofl: