Al Gore's Greatest Lapse in Judgment Ever! And I Mean, Ever.

[David Zephyr]

[Coexist]

1. I concur.

[yourout]

2. Without a doubt.

[Selatius]

3. I think Gore felt at the time that he could net the middle-of-the-road Democrats/centrists with Joe

Gore did beat Bush by 500,000 or so in 2000. Of course, Gore didn't know Joe would be the one along with several others telling him to drop the fight in Florida during the recount struggle.

[movonne]

4. I really don't believe that he picked him....just think if Gore had a

mishap and who would have become president...wow that is scary..

[Journeyman]

10. So you think someone else makes Gore's decisions for him? . . .

Who did pick Lieberman, if not Gore? . . .

[movonne]

48. I think the powerful DLC could have pushed him on Gore..just a thought..

[cascadiance]

62. Cheney picked himself as Bush's running mate!

And though the consultants helping Gore weren't doing that bad a job as Cheney did, they still were the ones that put Lieberman's name in front of Gore. And it was all part of the consultants' "You should try to NOT be Clinton" campaign, that worked so horribly for Gore the first half of that campaign. Lieberman was one of the few senators to to pretty strongly criticize Clinton at that time, and THAT was why he was picked by the consultants. Gore would have been helped had he "just said NO!" to them, but I think he's learned a lot from that time now!

[Cha]

83. That's the sense I got

after the dust had started to settle. I don't think it's really all settled yet but I digress.

Course, I could be wrong but I'm thinking Gore's trusty (yeah right)dlc advisors pushed for joe. lieman showed his hand when he debated(?)cheneyratfuck and didn't want the military votes to be discounted even though they were not legal. Nah, that shouldn't stop it.

Fuck lieman. Gore's come a long way since he had to listen to whomever was on board advising him to this and that during the 2000 selection by the supreme 5 of the bushit coup.

[rudy23]

5. If Gore had won in '00, I'm convinced we'd have President Lieberman by now

and we'd be in the exact same shape we're in today.

[Fridays Child]

14. I don't see how. Either Al would have won a second term or a Republican would have won.

But Al's VP would not have run in 2004.

Edited to point out that, actually, Al did win in '00, both by popular vote and by the vote counting plan authorized by the Florida courts.

[Usrename]

81. I agree, big Al wouldn't have lasted through the first year.

And we would be in much worse shape, Lieberman could most likely find the critical support needed to nuke Iran if he were President.

Scary thoughts.

[Usrename]

82. His biggest lapse may be that he does not support impeachment.

I don't know for sure if that is just self-preservation talking, or if he really thinks there should be no accountability for their crimes.

[muntrv]

6. Undoubtedly.

[BootinUp]

7. Joe is an interesting contradiction

I looked at his recent voting record and couldn't find other blaring evidence other thugginess. Its all about Israel and the M.E. I guess. I wouldn't be too hard on Gore here myself.

[frogcycle]

66. agreed

and b4 9/11 the topic wasn't as prominent

he supported Israel - big surprise there - it was generally acceptable to do so - his mad cow disease was not as evident

[DrDan]

8. I agree - and it is very baffling . . .

It is certainly a black mark on his judgement . . .

was he misled by his handlers . . . or did he actually make the choice himself . . .

[Jonathan50]

9. My eyes...

You could at least warn a guy, I would have put my welder's hood on. :)

[Fridays Child]

11. Even though I wasn't entirely comfortable with Gore's pick, in 2000, to say that it's his...

...greatest lapse in judgment ever relies on 20/20 hindsight. Besides, don't forget that Al won and, had he been properly installed in the White House, Lieberman would have been a relatively powerless vice president instead of the Bush-enabling senator that he is, today.

[datadiva]

12. That's a fact

I have often wondered why. The only conclusion I have been able to come up with is Israel. At that time not too many people spoke out against Israel's actions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Yeah, now that was an assault on reason.

Ba da bump.

[David Zephyr]

17. LOL!

:rofl: But is my thread an inconvenent truth? Or with Lieberman as VP, was Earth in the Balance?

[Jackpine Radical]

21. I think your post was more of an Assault on Reason.

One good thing about Joe as VP is that we would have maybe had a real Dem to replace him in the Senate.

[LSparkle]

15. Yup ... I'll bet he regrets that decision BIG TIME now.

He was close to choosing either Kerry or Edwards; either one would have been a great choice ...

[dave29]

16. It was his way of saying FU to Clinton

Al Gore was on the same page as Lieberman in regards to what Clinton's behavior did to their legacy. I think this was his main reason for choosing Lieberman, and he clearly has distanced himself from Lieberman almost immediately post 2000. Agreed though, on the central premise.

[Fridays Child]

18. It was his way of swinging Florida...

..which he did, by the way, the U.S. Supreme Court's deciding opinion notwithstanding.

[Jim Warren]

20. Better he had Jeb Bush

the way Holy Joe turned out.

[wakeme2008]

26. But Bob Graham would have landslided Florida

Gore lost a lot of Muslim-American votes with Joey.

:shrug:

[Fridays Child]

28. Which probably makes the case for the idea that at least part of Gore's...

...reason for picking Joe was to distance himself from Clinton. But I do think he was also courting retired Jewish voters in Florida.

[wakeme2008]

30. 80% of Florida's 60,000 Muslim-Americans voted for BUSH

what does the Muslim-American voters in Florida have to do with Clinton.

Florida voters have always loved Bob Graham. He would have brought many of the Muslim-Americans into Gores camp.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Yeah, and Florida jews voted for Buchanan.

:shrug:

[Fridays Child]

35. No, no. I'm saying that Bob Graham would have been a good pick but Joe...

...had established his creds as a Clinton scold and, at the time, Gore was trying to distance himself from Clinton.

[IndyOp]

29. Fridays Child - I truly admire your consistency...

And your truthiness!

Gore won Florida and it is a pet peeve of mine that people keep saying that "Gore won the popular vote". He did not just win the popular vote, he won it and the electoral college vote. If the Supreme Court had not stopped the count EVERYONE would know that.

:hi:

[Fridays Child]

44. Yep. He won it both ways.

.
I wonder if any of the justices who ginned up that supremely hypocritical, one-time deviation from their own much beloved states' rights philosophy, for the sole purpose of hijacking the election, have ever secretly regretted their action. If any of them have, it would be Sandra Day O'Connor but the others who conspired to undermine our democracy will probably never experience one moment of remorse.

[stlsaxman]

96. This is a photo of the EXACT moment the 2000 Election was stolen-

if only those deputies knew then and there the implications of their actions... sigh...

[blm]

49. Except Lieberman's policy twin and close, longtime friend is Bill Clinton.

I think Gore WAS influenced into Lieberman by the Dem powerstructure and the influence of The New Republic neocons at the time.

Thank undergod Gore came back to who he is when he left DC. He's actually MORE prepared to lead now.

[cmkramer]

76. I went back and read the speech not too long ago

And my suspicions were confirmed. Lieberman came out against impeachment in it. Said it was neither legally or morally justified.

I saw where Al was asked about Joe not too long ago - some tv interview show. Anyway, he acknowledged their deep disagreements on Iraq but said that Lieberman was very good on environmental issues which is probably Gore's biggest cause right now.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. I'm still kicking myself for voting for that SOB in 2000. Who knew what

an asshole he was? I surely didn't. His Senate floor speech lecturing Clinton on morality pissed me off, but I had NO CLUE he was such an asshole. Also, I'm sure it was Joe who suggested to Gore to NOT let Bill and Hill campaign for him in 2000 too. STUPID MOVE. IMCPO.

I imagine Al is kicking himself for taking that JERK as his running mate. What a difference 7 years makes, eh?

[still_one]

23. Gore endorsed Dean in the primaries, NOT liberman in 2004, that says everything

jumping joe made a sad speech how he was so hurt because Gore didn't let him know

Gore knows the game, the pupets, and the pupeters

[still_one]

22. Remember 2004 when lieberman was running. Gore didn't endorse him

Gore endorsed Dean. Reading Gore's latest book, I definitely have the impression that the candidates are controlled by the party machinary to a large extent, that is why Gore is not running, he will not play their game anymore

[Peregrine Took]

24. As I recall one of his daughters advised him to go with Lieberman. n/t

[stevedeshazer]

25. When Gore announced Lieberman as his pick, I remember going, HUH?

FLASHBACK: August 2000

link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0008/06/le.00.html

<snip>

With the Republican National Convention wrapped up, attention is now shifting to Vice President Al Gore and his still to be named running mate. The Democratic presidential candidate plans to formally announce his choice Tuesday.

CNN senior White House correspondent John King is in Nashville, Tennessee, with the latest on where the selection stands.

John, what do we know right now?

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we know the vice president is checking in periodically with senior aides helping him with the search. He said late last night that he still had not made a final decision.

But we do know, from sources close to the campaign, the vice president is looking most closely at four members of the United States Senate. They are John Edwards of North Carolina, John Kerry of Massachusetts, Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, and Evan Bayh of Indiana.

A lot of talk in the past 24 hours about Mr. Edwards. He is 47 years old. His first run for elective office was just two years ago. The vice president is known to have asked several close associates what the reaction would be in the political and in the media community if he chose someone with so little Washington experience.

more @ link

[Canuckistanian]

27. I was dreading this post

But I concur heartily! Holy Joe (even then) was everything Al was NOT.

A booster of corporate interests (while championing labor), a moral scold where Clinton was involved, used his religion to criticize and generally, was not exactly a notable member of the Senate for all the time he spent there.

It boggles the mind how Gore could have chosen him.

[bleever]

58. At least the Republicans can't use it against him

now that they've embraced him as the model of what WE should all be.

:rofl:

[aquart]

31. Sigh. Yep.

[iamahaingttta]

32. It was a different world back then.

We didn't know Joe then like we know Joe now. And we probably wouldn't know Joe now if he hadn't run then.

Joe was one of the reasons I didn't vote for Al in 2000.
I live in New York State, and I knew they would carry NY, so I voted 3rd party (NOT Nader) as a protest. Al did not ask me for my vote in 2000. He did everything he possibly could to avoid asking me for my vote, so I didn't vote for him. And, he picked a slippery con-man for a running mate, so I didn't vote for him.

If Al Gore runs in 2008, he could pick Beelzebub for a running mate and I would vote for him. Oh, wait... Beelzebub is not eligible, 22nd amendment and all...

[pink-o]

34. I blame Tipper and Donna Brazille

...Tipper was soooo pissed at Clinton, she was all over her husband to disengage himself from ANYTHING Big Dawg. Lieberdweeb was one of his most vocal critics. And Donna Brazille made some really stupid mistakes on that campaign. Granted, hindsight is 20/20 and it's hard to put ourselves back in the mindset of 2000, but one expects one's campaign manager to be a bit more of a visionary and a bit less of a knee-jerk reactor.

But to paraphrase, no one could have imagined what happened in Fla during the recount, and no one could have imagined that SCOTUS would subvert our democracy in such a slimy way. I mean, despite the crap decisions Brazille made, let us not forget that Gore did win the election--it's the neocons that took it from him.

[pansypoo53219]

36. you just know

'expert' advisors suggested joemental. forgetting the better sqeaky clean jew-feingold.

[Bonobo]

37. Where are all the Holy Joe supporters? Oh, that's right. There was just one...

[spanone]

38. Frickin' A

what the fuck was he thinkin'????

[malaise]

39. Ditto

In hindsight I'm really glad he never became VP - he is no different than Cheney or Bush.

[Initech]

40. There is no debating that one!

[RestoreGore]

41. And dredging up the past is so relevant now

But it is good in a way, because when you put threads like this up against threads regarding his current work, it is easy to see what people really want to discuss regarding him.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. True! Next worst: Donna Brazile.

Help Stamp Out DINOs!

[David Zephyr]

45. I would have to second your second, DemBones DemBones

Yeah, it seems Al's worst choices are choosing "friends". I can identify with that as I am sure many others can. In any event, Gore's my champion! :hi:

[Dukkha]

43. He probably sees him like a bad ex-girlfriend

thinking "oh man, what did I ever see in him?" and gives him that half asses one arm hug when he sees him while looking over his shoulder in embarrassment.

[Malikshah]

46. Gore was still to entangled with the DLCers at the time. Lieberman

simply took off his mask finally to reveal the soul-less wretch that he is.

Gore appears to have learned.

[PBass]

47. Forget about policy and the hawkishness,

Lieberman is terminally BORING. He is UNWATCHABLE.

Definitely Gore's biggest mistake.

[upi402]

50. LOL

:rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

51. Yep!

:-(

[Swede]

52. Now that is an inconvenient truth.

What was he thinking?

[WillyT]

53. Oh Man... Has Anybody Contemplated What Holy Joe Would Say If...

Al Gore was to run this time???

THAT would be very interesting.

:nuke:

[karlrschneider]

54. He obviously took the advice of some "expert" who said it would guarantee him the Jewish vote.

The thing is, it probably did but turned off enough people to make it easy for the BFEE to steal the election.

[eridani]

55. A primary reason why I voted Nader that year

OK, I wouldn't have if I'd been in a swing state, but I was disgusted by the VP pick. Subsequently I've become a committed Democrat, and have discovered that most local Dems in my area absolutely despised the choice.

[European Socialist]

56. Beating up Ross Perot over NAFTA ranks right up there, too.

I disliked Gore for a long time after that TV debate.

[high density]

65. NAFTA is it for me

Lieberman was a mistake, but not one as significant as NAFTA.

[bleever]

57. That's what I was hoping you'd say.

:thumbsup:

[AtomicKitten]

59. in retrospect, it was a mistake

but I wouldn't characterize it as a "lapse of judgment" because
the really bad stuff went down years after the fact.

[BadGimp]

60. as a friend would say: "That's an Ultimate Truth"

[Schema Thing]

61. It shows a stunning lack of good political instinct, imo

[stlsaxman]

63. CORRECTION: Gore's ONLY lapse in judgment ever! And I mean EVER!

Well, maybe hiring Donna Brazil and that other idiot...

but other than that, He's FLAWLESS!

[ToeBot]

70. Don't forget NAFTA! n/t

[stlsaxman]

75. sorry, did Gore sign Nafta into law or Clinton?

I forget which president did that. :shrug:

[northernsoul]

80. I disagree

He should not have aided and abetted his wife's ludicris and constitutionally dubious attempt to get the federal government to censor rock music. Here's a little refresher about Tipper and the PMRC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMRC

The Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was a American committee formed in 1985 by four women: Tipper Gore, wife of Senator and later Vice President Al Gore; Susan Baker, wife of Treasury Secretary James Baker; Pam Howar, wife of Washington realtor Raymond Howar; and Sally Nevius, wife of Washington City Council Chairman John Nevius. They were known as the "Washington wives" — a reference to their husbands' connections with the federal government. The Center eventually grew to include 22 directors.

The PMRC claimed that popular music, and especially rock and heavy metal music, was partially responsible for the contemporary increase in rape, teenage pregnancy, and teen suicide. The group's mission was "to educate and inform parents" about "the growing trend in music towards lyrics that are sexually explicit, excessively violent, or glorify the use of drugs and alcohol," and to seek the censorship and rating of music.

Gore watched other rock music videos and concluded: "The images frightened my children, they frightened me! The graphic sex and the violence were too much for us to handle." Susan Baker became alarmed after hearing her seven-year-old daughter singing along with Madonna songs that Baker considered "suggestive." Gore and Baker, along with Howar and Nevius, formed the PMRC in May 1985.
...
The PMRC claimed that the change in rock music was attributable to the decay of the nuclear family in America.<1> Gore asserted that families are "haven(s) of moral stability" which protect children from outside influence, and without the family structure rock music was "infecting the youth of the world with messages they cannot handle."
...
In August 1985, 19 record companies agreed to put "Parental Guidance: Explicit Lyrics" labels on albums to warn of explicit lyrical content. However, before the labels could be put into place, the Senate agreed to hold a hearing on so-called "porn rock". This began on 19 September 1985, when representatives from the PMRC, three musicians, and Senators Paula Hawkins and Al Gore testified before the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee on "the subject of the content of certain sound recordings and suggestions that recording packages be labeled to provide a warning to prospective purchasers of sexually explicit or other potentially offensive content."
...
Many record stores refused to sell albums containing the label (most notably Wal-Mart), and others limited the sale of those albums to minors. The label became known as the "Tipper sticker". Some politicians attempted to criminalize the sale of explicit records to minors, while others attempted to completely ban such records.

Al Gore's support for this kind of hysterical paternalism causes me to seriously question his judgment.

[stlsaxman]

93. y'know I think that a man can get a LITTLE bit of redemption for his activities since he supported

his uh- wife, uh- twenty-two years ago? -

"Al Gore's support for this kind of hysterical paternalism causes me to seriously question his judgment."

I think the man has shown an amazing amount of good judgment in the last twenty-two years... that totally out-weigh and out-shine something as "questionable" as supporting his wife. He was (and still is) married to the woman who took this action twenty-two years ago. Was he supposed to throw up his hands and turn his back and dis-own Tipper for her involvement with the PMRC?

Have you heard his speeches or read any of his books or seen his movie in the last twenty-two years or have you been boycotting them because of the PMRC?

22 years is a looooooong time to carry a grudge.

and hey- i'm a working musician/lyricist/composer who was enthralled and railed against the PMRC... I've been able to accept and get over it.

(sidebar: i think the whole sticker thing actually SOLD more records for the RIAA 'cause the kids were more apt to buy something "naughty" that would shock their parents.... a wise business maneuver!)

[David Zephyr]

85. "Flawless"

stlsaxman, you have a wicked sense of humor! Wicked! :)

[stlsaxman]

92. you noticed, huh?

good for you! (no one else did...) ;)



:hi:

[leftofthedial]

64. yep

it was 8 against 1 in 2000

the worst travesty in American history

holy joe is a piece of crap

[derby378]

67. I gotta agree - that really bit the party in the ass

:mad:

[ecstatic]

68. I'm thinking more along the lines of this:

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, top right, D-Tex., listens with fellow members of the Congressional Black Caucus whose objections to Florida's electoral vote were quashed by Al Gore himself. Wash., D.C. Jan. 6, 2001. Kenneth Lambert

http://www.thegully.com/essays/america/010107gore.html

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Yes, but it's important to remember that the circumstances of 2000 were a Universe away from where

we are now.

For starters, there was no Iraq War and the whole Neo-Con thing was really not apparent. Even Bush ran against "nation building". So Lieberman, while not a good choice, didn't have the karmic baggage he has now.

Mostly the reasons behind picking Lieberman- and they were bad reasons- had to do with the Gore campaign "distancing" itself from the evil, turgid, ungodly extramarital shenanigans of the dreaded CLENIS.

[InvisibleTouch]

71. Sad but true.

At the time I was turned off by Joe's constant references to "god," and I thought he had zero charisma, but I figured, if those were his only faults, I could grit my teeth and live with it. After all, I was voting for Gore, not for Lieberman, and I was willing to trust that Gore saw some ability or asset in the guy. Little did we know then what we know now.

I don't hold it against Gore, mind you. The choice didn't cause him to "lose," given that first of all he didn't lose, and second of all I don't believe the choice cost him any votes and made it any easier to steal. I guess it might be said that choosing Kerry or Edwards as a running mate instead, would have brought in even more votes and made the election harder/impossible to steal - but there's no way to know that. It was just a horrifically bad choice in retrospect, but it's in the category of "we all make mistakes." The only shame is if we don't learn from them.

[sakabatou]

72. D'oh!

[Patchuli]

73. Don't forget his 2000 Campaign Manager!! nt

[flaminbats]

74. his position on healthcare reform in 2000 was a huge failure..

I only voted for him because I knew Gore would do less damage to our country than Bush has. but I also felt none if little enthusiasm for his last campaign, and voted for Bill Bradley in that primary.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

77. I saw him for the rat bastard he was back then

and I was in the seventh grade

[northernsoul]

78. #2 was marrying PMRC Tipper

I'm sorry if that sound harsh, but every rock-n-roll fan out there has to have a bitter taste in their mouths from Tipper's unbelievably creepy, paternalistic attempt to have congress regulate artisitic content via the PMRC.

Remember these killjoys?

The Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) was a American committee formed in 1985 by four women: Tipper Gore, wife of Senator and later Vice President Al Gore; Susan Baker, wife of Treasury Secretary James Baker; Pam Howar, wife of Washington realtor Raymond Howar; and Sally Nevius, wife of Washington City Council Chairman John Nevius. They were known as the "Washington wives" — a reference to their husbands' connections with the federal government. The Center eventually grew to include 22 directors.

The PMRC claimed that popular music, and especially rock and heavy metal music, was partially responsible for the contemporary increase in rape, teenage pregnancy, and teen suicide. The group's mission was "to educate and inform parents" about "the growing trend in music towards lyrics that are sexually explicit, excessively violent, or glorify the use of drugs and alcohol," and to seek the censorship and rating of music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMRC

[HughBeaumont]

86. Like they said, she's less than a friend to the arts.

Tipster needs to realize there are far bigger fish to fry than "F" words. By concentrating on meaningless shiny-object bullshit such as this, you're taking your eye off the ball. That ball being the misdeeds of ton of criminal neo-clowns.

[David Zephyr]

87. Marrying Tipper was Al's best move ever. (ever).

Sorry to disagree, but Tipper got a bum rap on that issue. Her courageous stand on bringing mental illness out as an "illness" and not something of shame deserves nothing but praise. Further, any wife of a presidential candidate who will play drums on stage in public at a gay and lesbian event without hesitation or worrying about the political fallout of such a move also merits admiration.

I'm a big fan of Tipper Gore.

[stlsaxman]

95. Thank you, Sir!

bum rap, indeed...

and the PMRC was twenty-two years ago, for crying out loud!

[lpbk2713]

79. If it weren't for that I'm sure he'd be in his second term right now.

Even in spite of Krazy Katherine Harris and the Supremes.

[mzmolly]

84. And, the greatest lapse in judgement that ultimately led to this lapse >

Gore attempted to distance himself from Clinton's "morality" by choosing LIEberman.

I liked Joe in 2000, who'd a thunk?

[slay]

88. I knew what it would be before I even clicked on the link - and I agree

Bad call Al.. also distancing himself from Clinton was a bad call in my book as well. However almost 8 years later and I can strongly say that Gore has reflected on things and is a much different Al Gore than we saw in 2000. He will be getting my vote for President in 2008 even if I have to write him in as my vote!

Al Gore 2008!

[hippiechick]

89. ... but now we must ask, was it *his* judgement ...

.. or was Holy Joe foisted upon him?

Considering that Donna Brazile was his campaign manager ... :shrug: ... I can't be sure a decision that stupid was really Al's.

[blm]

97. Dem powerstructure forced it, imo. Joe's policies match Bill Clinton's to a tee.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

[David Zephyr]

90. "President’ Lieberman: A Cautionary Tale" By Robert Scheer

Excerpts from Robert Scheer, the best political writer the LA Times ever had:

******************

"President’ Lieberman: A Cautionary Tale" By Robert Scheer

What if Al Gore had won the 2000 presidential election but died in office? Would President Joe Lieberman have been worse than George W. Bush? His recent actions suggest that he could have descended even lower in his illogical and immoral responses to the tragedy of 9/11. Although now an independent, Lieberman provides a cautionary tale for folks who talk of backing “any Democrat” who can win.

At a time when even President Bush has recognized the need for negotiations with Iran in order to stabilize Iraq, where disciples of Tehran’s ayatollahs have risen to power, thanks to the U.S. occupation he fervently supports, Lieberman urges war with Iran. “I think we’ve got to be prepared to take aggressive military action against the Iranians to stop them from killing Americans in Iraq,” he told CBS on Sunday, “and to me, that would include a strike over the border into Iran.”

Full Article at truthdig.com here:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070612_president_lieberman_a_cautionary_tale/

[treestar]

91. With benefit of hindsight, yes, but judgment must be exercised at

the time.

[rec_report]

94. K&R. n/t

[Az]

98. Nearly drove me from the party

I actually wept the day Lieberman spoke here in Detroit and claimed that Freedom of Religion does not mean Freedom from Religion. The bastard.

[Arugula Latte]

99. I was disappointed and perplexed when he chose him.

Now, looking back, it absolutely makes me ill.

I think I have even more disdain for Lieberman than I do for most thugs in the Bush administration.