Thom Hartmann - emerging feudalism

[pberq]

Thom, as usual, is in great form today. Talking about what really happened at the G-8: they are trying to replace the UN.

The G-8 is essentially a world-wide oligarchy - opposed to democracy, since democracy is bad for business.

Going back in U.S. history, up until the civil war there were no family dynasties. Then, starting with reconstruction, the rules were changed and we saw the emergence of family dynasties like the Rockefellers, Carnegies, etc. Then after the Depression hit, FDR changed the rules so that the rich were paying up to 90% income tax on income above $3 million (in today's dollars).

Then Ronald Reagan came along and changed the rules in favor of oligarchy or feudalism - now we have families amassing wealth on an unprecedented scale.

[pberq]

1. One solution - publicly financed elections

[NashVegas]

2. Pre-Civil War Family Dynasties

They were there, they just weren't quite so loud about it. Pre-industrial revolution, the top families of the US were landholders and the patroons of NY State had *tons.* The Livingstons and Jays (as in John Jay, first Chief Justice of SCOTUS who married into the Livingston family) were among them.

[pberq]

4. Thank you for that correction.

What kind of power did these families have in terms of shaping government policy?

[NashVegas]

5. Well

John Jay was a co-writer of the Federalist Papers, IIRC.

Even then, though, things weren't quite so feudalistic; these were landowners, yes, but the feudal system wasn't so much a part of it. The original colonist population had a great deal more stakeholders and independent businessmen and women, skilled tradesmen, etc., than the US has now.

I'm considering picking up Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations for my summer reading :)

The New Feudalism is nowhere more apparent than in the agribusiness industry (land-owning farmers are literally being driven out and replaced by serfs) and military / industrial complex. Is there any difference between the contracts given to Haliburton now and the fiefs of the middle ages?

[pberq]

7. And this is why those in power hate democracy.

If democracy is allowed, they would have to give up power, and with that wealth.

[deutsey]

3. As Frank Zappa said

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."

It's obviously no longer profitable to continue the illusion...

[pberq]

8. That's a great quote - Zappa was a genius!

[shain from kane]

6. Can feudalism arise from fascism, or is it vice versa?