Kucinich considers suing Glenn Beck

[OzarkDem]

He's talking to his attorneys and they've written to Beck about offensive comments Beck made about Kucinich's wife on the air



http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/06/is_kucinichs_bulldog_going_aft.html

Clear Channel is the parent of Premiere Radio Networks, which syndidates Beck's show on more than 200 stations. On June 4, the radio talker compared the Cleveland Democratic congressman and presidential aspirant to the Gollum character from "Lord of the Rings" -- and speculated that Kucinich's wife, Elizabeth, must be under the influence of a "date rape drug" to find him attractive.

[Beaverhausen]

1. Good for Dennis

Beck is disgusting, but that comment is really beyond the pale.

[Sapere aude]

2. Just do it!

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

3. Please do it

I'm begging you Dennis.

[sasquatch]

4. Sue his dick off Dennis

Then make him eat it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. If I were Dennis, I wouldn't settle for such a small settlement. n/t

[sasquatch]

39. *rimshot*

[loyalkydem]

5. Glenn

Beck strikes me as arrogant sometimes. I'm surprised no one has done this sooner.

[OzarkDem]

7. According to Media Matters

Washington Post Radio is considering hiring the vulgar creep to boost their sagging ratings. I can't imagine how this would help unless some right wing millionaire is going to give them a lot of money to do it. This guys ratings aren't that good.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706070006?f=h_top

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

16. contact the WP and let 'em know how you feel:

[e-mail]

[OzarkDem]

28. Thanks for the link!

I can't imagine why CNN gives this guy a forum, let alone the Washington Post. His ratings can't be that good.

[orleans]

43. washington post SUCKS more and more. what the fuck is wrong with them? n/t

[frogcycle]

19. SOMETIMES????

that slime is smirks as much as bush. He is arrogant and obnoxious - ALL the time.

[Beelzebud]

6. Glenn Beck probably knows all about how to use a date rape drug...

[Blue_Tires]

8. makes me wonder what beck's wifey looks like.....

[krispos42]

58. Blonde.

She's the third from the left, in the blue dress.

[cyclezealot]

9. someone had the courage to take on such bullies.

Dennis. Please do it for us . Lousy media and their bullies must be taken on . Beck is too vulgar for words. Dennis Kucinich is a man of principal. Most would just go along with the power of an Immus. They must be taught a lesson for their nastiness and arrogrance.

[Judi Lynn]

10. Beck must be absolutely blind as a bat. He has ALWAYS had the most repulsive face

you're likely to see on your tv screen. Absolutely grotesque.
http://www.funforalltoys.com.nyud.net:8090/products/just_for_fun/martian_popping_thing/mpt1.jpg

Hard to tell which one is Beck, isn't it?

Can you imagine this man would fancy himself more pleasant than Dennis Kucinich? There's nothing manly, nor intelligent, nor minimally acceptable about this pathetic, infantile blowhard.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

14. he looks like an aging version of Biff from back to the future

..

[shadowknows69]

33. Lol good call on that one

and has the personality to match.

[Judi Lynn]

87. I had to go check on Biff because I couldn't remember. You are correct!

http://content.answers.com.nyud.net:8090/main/content/wp/en/thumb/d/d1/250px-Biff_1985.JPG

Aging Biff Beck

[rucky]

60. And when you squeeze his brain, gooey stuff comes out of his mouth. n/'t

[TroglodyteScholar]

91. Reminds me of someone from the Simpsons...

[EndElectoral]

11. As ugly as Beck is...my God man, look in the mirror!

[Bucky]

12. Sadly, the First Amendment applies to Glen Beck too. But that said

Yes, Kooch oughta do something. You don't insult a man's wife. A real mensch wouldn't act like a turd than hide behind "protected speech." Plus this would give Kucinich a LOT of free publicity. Beck, too, but then we already know that he's a parasite.
.

[frogcycle]

21. first amendment doesn't guarantee a TV show

IF he had actual commentary on "the issues," even if I disagreed, i'd say "well, I don't have to tune him in" and ignore.

But his show, as most on CNN/HCNN/MSNBC/FOXN is presented as if he had some qualifications - as if he were actually competant to "comment" and "analyze." When someone who is packaged as a pseudo-expert says something like this, then he belongs (nowhere, actually) on an entertainment channel. Some semblance of responsibility - not "political correctness" - just decent propriety should exist. CNN should fire his sorry ass.

[Morgana LaFey]

22. yeah, except for libel and slander and a bunch of other

exceptions, not to mention that the First Amendment guarantees only against GOVERNMENT censorship of speech, not private censorship of speech.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. It has to be believeable in order to be slander.

This is fully protected free speech. See, for example, Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Jerry Falwell.

[DemSoccerMom]

35. Actually . . .

for slander to apply, all his comment has to do is lessen someone (ANYONE'S) opinion of the man. However, as a journalist, I can attest to the difficulty of PROVING slander.

And then there's that pesky defense AGAINST slander/libel (for those who don't know, libel is the WRITTEN version of slander): TRUTH is a defense to it. So, and here's where it gets sticky, all a defendant (i.e., Beck) would have to show is that he reasonably believed the statement to be true. And, well, with the brains this guy's got, a court might just buy that . . .

[noamnety]

47. Where are the Larry Flynt worshippers now?

Shouldn't they be appearing any minute to talk about what a hero Beck is?

Dear Larry Flynt,

We, the undersigned, reminded by the death of Jerry Falwell, are also reminded of your Dedication to the Preservation of Free Speech, specifically when you were bold enough to take your case (and ours as we cherish our Freedoms) to the Supreme Court of our Great Nation, and we wish to Publicly Thank You for your dedication to the Ideals that our forefathers penned during the birth of this country - the Rights that many men have spilled their precious blood for. We may not all agree on the subjects expressed in all Free Speech, but as one Patriot said, "I will defend to the Death Your right to say them."

Don't forget to vote this UP, let's show this man his great lawsuit is Appreciated!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=900906

[NYCGirl]

56. Unless Beck is taking a case to the Supreme Court to uphold the First Amendment,

he's no hero. But also, Kucinich has absolutely no case here.

[noamnety]

61. but if he did take it to the supreme court to defend himself

folks here would call Beck a great hero for his dedication to the ideals that our forefathers penned during the birth of this country, by defending his right to call Kucinich a rapist and slur his wife, right?

[NYCGirl]

63. And if my aunt had wheels she'd be a wagon, right? You're really reaching.

The lawsuit, should Kucinich pursue it, won't get anywhere near the Supreme Court, since it's a bogus lawsuit.

[noamnety]

64. Oh, gosh, I know that.

I am just making a point here.

People have the right to defend their free speech. Flynt, Beck, Falwell, that Phelps woman.

But using one of their rights - defending it even - when they are using it to exploit, demean in hateful ways, and oppress, does not make them heroic. It just makes them self-serving woman-hating bullying assholes who know their rights.

I am hoping that some of the folks that were so irate about me making that point before can understand better where I am coming from, now that the shoe is on the other foot.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. Um, I was already here.

"worshippers" is an unfair exaggeration, but I'm glad he skewered Falwell and took that case all the way.

[Bucky]

29. Well, obviously censorship is not even at issue here.

The question is whether Beck can be held accountable for an egregious insult. Kucinich is thinking of acting through the court system, which is of course part of the government. In that regard, he enjoys certain priviledges and protections. Whether they extend to this case is for the judge to decide.

To make the case, Kucinich is going to have to meet certain tests. I don't think there are "a bunch" of other exceptions. Kucinich is a public figure and the weight of the law is on Beck's side. He can credibly claim what he said was satire; he has a long established history of making sarcastic comments on his show. If that's the defense Beck uses, he wins it in a slam dunk. Kucinich is a public figure. The controlling precedent would be New York Times Co. v. Sullivan (1964), but more relevent precedent would be Falwell vs Flynt (1988) which deals specifically with the right to insult public figures for purposes of satire. Or think of how Fox News got "literally laughed out of court" when they went after Al Franken for using "Fair and Balanced."

Kunich has a much harder case to make. His argument would be that Beck defamed his character. To prove this libel he'd have to show that people really believed he drugged his wife. That's a pretty high test (no pun intended) to meet, the statement is ridiculous on its face. Time and again courts have found with the press and against the public figure on questions like this. The only exception I can think of is the Carol Burnett case against the National Inquirer. But they had no satire defense, which Beck obviously does enjoy.

Again, I think Kucinich should do something here. His honor is at stake and someone needs to stand up to this bully Beck. But that said, Kucinich has no legal footing. In a court of law, he'd lose. But if he can engineer a moral victory, he can come out a winner here. The trick is in finding the right approach so that he isn't laughed out of court like Beck was.


I wish Dennis luck in this
.

[DemBones DemBones]

24. It applied to Don Imus, too, but public outrage took him down.

We can take Beck down over this and we should.

[Bucky]

31. He can be roughed up over this, but a take down is a different matter

I agree Kooch needs to get up in Beck's face over this insult. Literally if possible. But Imus went down because he violated a taboo--racial slurs and sexual slurs against honorable young ladies. Beck was snickering about someone else's sex life, which is cruel when it happens to someone you admire, but hardly a taboo subject in our culture.

He can be fought here, and he should be, but he can't be dethroned over this.
.

[OzarkDem]

38. Most women would consider it a sexual slur

Implying that women need to be given date rape drugs to have sex with their husband has very negative sexual connotations.

[Bucky]

50. I agree it's offensive, but the core joke was "he's too ugly to get laid" -- Not a taboo

[Cabcere]

69. Agreed - that is a pretty horrible comment, even for Beck.

:puke:

[MonkeyFunk]

92. What ought Kucinich do?

Punch Beck?

Suing would be ridiculous. As to "you don't insult a man's wife...", it's done here with great frequency. Ever read a thread on Laura Bush? Fred Thompson's wife?

[dweller]

13. perhaps Ms K should also sue

afterall the slander involves her.

i'm glad DK is doing this, but another lawsuit on top of it may add enough fuel to get some outrage flowing.

dp

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

15. this guy needs to be held accountable

whether dennis wins or loses, just how vile this man is needs to be emphasized

he keeps getting hired by 'respectable' news organizations like cnn, abc and not the washignton post. he needs to be accurately depicted for what he is-a bigoted loose cannon

[Goat or Panic]

17. I'm surprised.

I wouldn't expect that sort of language from Beck, considering that he's a Conservative Christian and all.























Oh yeah... :sarcasm:

[originalpckelly]

20. It ain't gonna happen.

To put it mildly, insult of public figures is very very hard to sue for unless there is severe damage to their safety/career because of purposely false information.

This just sounds like a wild exaggeration, and I don't see how it will damage his career or safety. I doubt the people who are wise enough to vote for Kucinich are stupid enough to listen to Beck anyway.

[LWolf]

26. Insult is one thing.

This is something else.

Date rape is a crime.

An insult might be crass, uncivilized, in poor taste, and generally ill-mannered, but legal.

Publicly suggesting that someone committed date rape, which is a crime, is defamation and can be prosecuted.

[BlooInBloo]

40. I don't see it going anywhere either.

[DemBones DemBones]

23. We should all write to CNN Headline News and Clear Channel to

complain about Beck. I'd like to see someone else have his airtime on Headline News.

There's no excuse for saying Dennis Kucinich's wife "must be under the influence of a date rape drug" to find him attractive.

MCNBC also needs to hear that Scarborough's comments about Fred Thompson's wife, asking if she "worked the pole," were out of line.

I know nobody here supports Fred but the issue in both cases is making sexual comments about a man's wife to demean the man. It shouldn't be done to any woman, whether she's married to a Democrat or a Republican.


Glenn and Joe are pigs to say such things.

[roody]

70. During the dog food scare, I learned that Nutro

pet foods are owned by Clear Channel and I no longer buy Nutro. Last night I told a friend and she will stop buying Nutro.

[MonkeyFunk]

77. No they're not

they were recently bought by Mars.

Clear Channel is a media company.

[Blue-Jay]

95. The PLANET??!!?

That's worse than ClearChannel, if you ask me.

[Cha]

27. That fucking idiot glen beck needs

to be held accountable for the chemical spills comin' outta his rat hole.

Oh, and bring cnn down with ya, glen beck.

[bahrbearian]

30. Hit these bastards were it hurts em, in the wallet.

[GETPLANING]

32. Glen Beck knows a thing or two about that

Beck is married to a very attractive blonde airhead. I wonder what he puts in her drinks to keep her from realizing she is married to the world's biggest asshole.

[Greeby]

34. Glenn Beck

Another mutant who needs to be smashed in the face repeatedly with a piece of heavy mining equipment :argh:

[Swamp Rat]

44. LOL!

or tarred and feathered. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering

[shenmue]

36. *Sue him into the next universe*, please.

:applause:

:patriot:

Best news I've heard all day!

[lonestarnot]

37. Woot you go Dennis!

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

41. Beck made fat jokes about Elizabeth Edwards, too

all throughout 2004, while at the same time professing his supposed 'christian' values

[HCE SuiGeneris]

42. take these hacks down -- enough of their hateful diatribe

they continue to get away with far too much

[slay]

52. I couldn't agree more!

All these right wing assholes spewing hate 24/7 has got to stop. I'm not proposing censorship, but they better be able to back up EVERYTHING they say with facts. Just look at what those bastards did to a great man like Dan Rather and yet Glenn Beck gets to say this crap and just get away with it? If there is one flaw with us liberals it is that we are too nice and forgiving. Well, enough is enough and I'm more than ready to take on these assholes and take them down - hard! :grr: We need public figures who promote peace and love, not war and hate. THIS HAS TO STOP! :mad:

[libodem]

45. Go after that big mouth blowhard, Glenn Beck, Dennis.

I can't stand him. He's coming to Boise on his 'Inconvenient Tour'. His radio spot whines over and over in the nasal tone sing song "how in-connn-veeeen-yent". He's a rude, smug, smirking, smart-ass, punk, kid. There is something immature about his juvenile, fun-making gag routines. And I mean, gag. *Belch* What a sophomoric witless sense of humor. To pick on people. Belittle and insult with innuendos and conjured up 'facts'. He's entertainment so he can slant the 'news' report with and right wing, talking point, twist, he's been handed from KKKarls' command Post. Right wing Media Show Hosts, all have the same commentary, each day, on the something, that they got a pep talk from, White House GOP, Headquarters. It's a master plan. And He is one of the 'Chosen'. Betcha can't touch him. He knows the drill and he spills the shill. That guy, is one brainwashed, little monkey. He thinks like 'em and he talks like 'em. And he pushes the, Fear Agenda, frightening the general public with, the Muslims, are instilled with burning hatred of all of us, can not be trusted to negotiate or mediate for any kind of discussion or diplomatic liaison because they are all brutal maniacs with suicidal ideation wanting to race into the next conference room and blow up everybody. We have helped to create a world were people believe that suicide is the most powerful act one could contribute to the benefit and expression of the message of disparate. We are talking about DISPARATE, Glenn, you big, hilarious, comedian. Keep, laughin' it up there blubber boy, and maybe somebody WILL sue your funny ass off.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

46. He ought to kick that piece of shit in the balls . . .

and then do prison time.

It'd be worth it.

And I'd still vote for him.

And THEN I'd appoint him as my secretary of peace.

DK 04, 08, 12, 16

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. Glenn Beck's A Jerkoff. Having That Said, This Lawsuit Is Ridiculous.

Sorry.

I couldn't believe the story was actually real.

[TorchTheWitch]

97. It is ridiculous and would only give Beck more fodder

As a public figure Dennis hasn't a leg to stand on legally. If his wife brought the suit, she MIGHT have a slim chance, however, I have big doubts about that since a politician's wife is often nearly as much of public figure as her politician husband. In any case, it would never go to court anyway and would be settled accomplishing nothing but giving Beck MUCH more fodder to further malign both of them.

There's only one way that these obnoxious hate radio personalities can be reigned in and that's when the public rises up against them by not tuning into their programs, complaining to the networks that hire them and boycotting the advertisers that run their ads during those programs.

[eridani]

49. The court system won't fly

But if we can get rid of Imus, we ought to go after Beck. The legal arguments are all against Dennis here.

[slay]

51. Glenn Beck is such a scumbag - CNN has lost all credibility by hiring him

The fact that TV and radio are all dominated by right wing blowhards who like to talk shit and get people rilled up for no reason is looking to be the final piece of the puzzle in how those in power in the media WANT us to think. They WANT us to agree with Glenn Beck. They WANT us to agree with Rush Limbaugh. Republicans have proven they will look the other way no matter what crime is being committed as long as you pay them enough. I think the reason liberal radio and TV talk shows don't do as well is that us liberals are strong enough and confidant enough in our views that we don't need to be told what to think or how to think 24/7 the way the right wing nut jobs do. They are kind of pathetic if you think about it. I hope Dennis does sue and I hope CNN goes the way of the dinosaur. Seems like NPR and BBC are the only half decent semi-mainstream source of news these days. But as most of us know by now - the ONLY way to get the REAL NEWS UNFILTERED is on the internet. :web:

[Bentcorner]

53. Glen Beck is a reformed alcoholic and drug addict. Should he be making cracks like this?

[Hippo_Tron]

54. Right wing talk radio I could understand, but how does Beck have a show on CNN?

[EV_Ares]

76. So many of the RWers are either ex drug addicts or ex alcoholics or

still doing it and have not been found out.

[OzarkDem]

55. Beck Fans Garbage at Plain Dealer web site

The comments being posted by Glenn Beck fans at the link for the Kucinich article are disgusting.

They've been harrassing Kucinich's wife for months on local forums, accusing her of being into kinky sex, etc. The hate is palpable. I can't believe CNN and Washington Post would consider perpetuating this level of hatred with Beck's show:

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/06/is_kucinichs_bulldog_going_aft.html

"I don't worry about Kucinich being a dwarf in body, it's the small feeble communist inspired mind that people should worry about. Right now he and dozens of 'wounded ego' democrats are after Gonzales (whom I don't like because he won't send the democrat traitors to jail) for a 'non-crime' while sheltering dozens of felons and traitors in their own party in congress. Give us a break, the democrat led congress are up to, what a 75% disapproval number (the only number that has risen in six months that they have anything to do with, '0' bill through congress) and another 20% + lied, just because they're democrats. So maybe 5% of Americans really trust the democrat led congress to protect them and their families. I wake every morning and turn on the news expecting to hear that a million or so Americans have been slaughtered while the slept. It will happen and it will all fall on the democrats heads for supporting the terrorists and opposing every law designed to keep us safe."

[bunkerbuster1]

99. Typical garbage you'll see at newspaper "comments" section

Same thing with the ostensibly liberal Atlanta Journal-Constitution. You'll get a couple of full-timers who stake it out and post right-wing drivel.

They make the usual Freeper thread seem like the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

[Matsubara]

57. There is zero grounds there for a lawsuit.

However, I don't think pale, puffy, bloated Beck has much room to talk about looks.

Kucinich is not physically attractive, and he has no money, so that leaves one thing - his wife was drawn to his character, as millions of Americans have been.

That kind of attraction is unfathomable to a right-winger, because to them, all relationships must be based on power, money, sex or a combination of the three.



Here's a pic of the junior Limbaugh wannabe who's talking crap about Dennis:



Are there any women around who find THIS hot?

[madokie]

59. gotta love the man

as a DU'er said the other day 'a squirrel could go up one of his legs and come down the other not hungry', the man gots lots of balls

[tammywammy]

62. Sorry Dennis, but don't waste your time

I find what Beck said deplorable and offensive, but I don't see where the lawsuit could take this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Glen Beck Isn't Going To Get Confused For George Clooney Either

eom

[treestar]

66. Heck, Dennis just enjoy his obvious jealousy

And the fact he cannot come close to you on the attractiveness scale!

[Hidden Stillness]

67. Beck is as Hateful to Women as Don Imus

I happened to hear a couple of clips from this creepy bastard, one of them played on "Countdown," harrassing two women guests on the air, possibly from the same program. It was about this "American Idol," and the two were from previous years. The clip played on "Countdown" had Beck sexually harrassing a very young woman guest, suggesting some vulgar shit that she do something naked in Beck's office--creey--and she was so shocked amd upset, that she just sat there, looking scared, and said nothing. The other was a clip with Kimberly (Something), one of the "famous" ones, who is on the TV Guide channel of program-listings a lot. She was asked a question and was answering, when Beck suddenly exploded, but with a phony "smile," like it was "fun" and "a joke," and told her, over and over, "Will you shut up? Will you please shut up? Will you let A MAN TALK?"--like that, very pissed, smirking, very exaggerated wording on the "supreme male" part. Again, the woman was so shocked that she just sat there, stunned. It's like many women have said, though--if the remarks had been racial and not directed against women, these pricks would be gone.

I also don't understand the premise that people cannot be removed from commercial media for language used, when we know it happens all the time. Not only was Rosie O'Donnell recently forced out of her job at "The View" on ABC, but it was compounded when they forced her out even earlier. I also remember a very good talk show on a Fox non-cable channel about 10 years ago, with Vicki Lawrence (from the Carol Burnett Show), very non-corporate. One time, Michael Moore was on, still then known for the General Motors documentary, "Roger and Me" I think it was called. and they had a great discussion, liked each other a lot, she agreed with Moore on the unfairness of the capitalist economy--it was wonderful--and bam!, about a week later as I recall, she was cancelled. She had had high ratings up to then. They remove them with no problem--when it's us.

[otohara]

68. As Someone Who Sued Clear Channel

I would advise Congressman Kucnich to move on, forget about it. They will only use it as fodder to ridicule him at their other 1199 stations. They employ nasty ass attorneys and everyone will lie during deposition. They will fight tooth and nail and in the end, they will possibly settle but it would have been more trouble than it's worth.

Besides, he has more important things to do.

[Yukari Yakumo]

71. This has all the markings for disaster...

... for Kucinich.

As much as we don't like Beck, others have done similar things to BushCo and their various lackeys.

However, it would be too easy for someone to portray this as an act of desperation on part of the Kucinich campaign, and it could totally deflate any arguments Kucinich brings to the table.

[lies and propaganda]

72. awesome! Do it!

that was a completelyFucked remark that he made!!!

[shadowknows69]

73. Sue his stations and affiliates Dennis

quickest way to get someone off the air.

[SergeyDovlatov]

74. Glenn Back == no class

Who are the people who listen to him and enjoying the show?

[bamacrat]

75. Good, Glenn Beck is worthless little shit.

I want to start my own news channel that doesnt cater to the gov't like the MSM does. Ill call it Faux News. hahah.

[MonkeyFunk]

78. I hope he doesn't

he would lose badly.

One is still allowed to make jokes about public figures in America.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

79. Kucinich is a public figure, but his wife probably isn't.

At least, not under the N.Y. Times v. Sullivan definition. And even if she were, she could still win if she could prove not only that the statement was false but that it was made with actual malice.

And actual malice seems to be Beck's stock in trade.

[MonkeyFunk]

80. sorry

this lawsuit would have absolutely no shot.

She's the wife of a man running for President - ergo she's a public figure, too.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

82. Are you a lawyer? Just wondering.

[MonkeyFunk]

83. Nope

but I still think it would be stupid of Kucinich to try to sue over a joke.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

84. OK.

Actually, I am, and I used to teach constitutional history, so I have some background with this stuff. And I agree that it would not be particularly sensible lawsuit. But that doesn't mean it would be impossible to win, at least if it were based on a claim by Kucinich's wife rather than by Dennis himself. I just can't find any Supreme Court cases holding that a public figure's spouse is automatically a public figure just by virtue of being married to one. Mrs. K. simply does not fit the criteria established in either NYT v. Sullivan or Gertz v. Welch. Moreover, as I mentioned before, even if she were found to be a public figure, arguably the statements were made with actual malice (that is, with the knowledge it was false). Beck's defense, of course, would be that he was just joking, and a tasteless, obnoxious joke does not rise to the level of defamation.

[BlooInBloo]

85. I'm not a lawyer, but there needn't be a *SCOTUS* case on it, right?

Also, do you REALLY mean to say that actual malice = knowledge of falsity? If so, then satire would count as malice. Wouldn't there also have to be (at least as a background assumption) that the speaker intended that the listener take the statement as true? The following seems to be along the lines of what I'm thinking (thank god for google):


http://www.rcfp.org/news/mag/28-4/lib-factualm.html

"The U.S. Supreme Court created the actual malice standard in 1964 in New York Times v. Sullivan. In order to recover for libel, a public figure must prove that the defendant made a statement with knowl- edge that it was false or with reckless disregard for whether it was true or not.

The problem with applying this standard in the context of satire is that a satirist knows and intends that he or she is making false statements of fact. It is the blurring of the line between the farcical and the factual that makes satire an effective form of criticism.

The U.S. Supreme Court addressed satire of a public figure in Hustler Magazine v. Falwell, but that case addressed a claim of intentional infliction of emotional distress, not libel. In Hustler, Rev. Jerry Falwell sued Hustler Magazine Publisher Larry Flynt for intentional infliction of emotional distress and libel for publishing an "ad parody," which claimed that Falwell preached while drunk and had sex with his own mother in an outhouse.

The jury ruled against Falwell on the libel claim because the parody could not reasonably be interpreted as stating actual facts, but ruled for him on the emotional distress claim. Flynt appealed, and the Supreme Court unanimously reversed the emotional distress award, holding that Falwell could not avoid having to prove actual malice by suing for emotional distress."


EDIT: So my conclusion/question is: It seems to me that the definition of "actual malice" is flawed, no?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

86. I agree that the "actual malice" definition is a bit of a sticky wicket,

since obviously satire can be very malicious. However, if Mrs. K. isn't a public figure (and I don't think she is, per Sullivan), presumably she could sue for emotional distress even if Beck claims his remarks were mere satire. The issues in defamation/First Amendment cases do get pretty complicated.

[onenote]

98. There is no question but that Ms. Kucinich would be found to be a public figure

The concept of who is a public figure in defamation law is actually quite broad. One category of public figure is one who actively puts themselves in the public eye. Ms. Kucinich, who I asume accompanies her husband on campaign stops and otherwise appears in public with him, probably meets that standard. The law also recognizes limited-purpose public figures -- people who voluntarily participates in a discussion about a specific public issue and has access to the media to get his or her own view across. Finally, there are involuntary limited-purpose public figures -- people who are thrown into the public spotlight by events.

An element to all of these different levels is whether the person is likely to have access to the media to present a rebuttal to the charges. Ms. Kucinich clearly has that, and for that reason, it is almost certain that she would be deemed a public figure if she sought to bring an action against beck.

[MonkeyFunk]

90. I'm not sure why a Supreme Court case is necessary

to show she's a public figure.

I have never met her, yet I know who she is. Most people here on this site have never met her, yet know who she is.

She is written about frequently in newspapers and does radio and TV interviews. She campaigns for her husband.

She is a public figure.

Would you argue that Laura Bush is not a public figure? People here call her a xanax-addled stepford wife, and a murderder, with great frequency. Could she sue DUers for those statements?

Is Fred Thompson's wife entitled to sue for some of the mean things said about her here?

Kucinich would be a fool to sue over this.

[Maru Kitteh]

81. Um, why isn't his WIFE suing the scumbag?

I would. The defamation is against HER.

I hate it when progressives fall into patriarchal patterns.

[KharmaTrain]

88. Kucinich Replies

As other DU "courtroom" laywers have chimed in...the fact Mrs. Kucinich is related to a public figure makes this a difficult case to bring...especially since Mrs. K. does appear with her husband in public and thus is part of his campaign.

Instead, I'd offer Mr. Kucinich the following replies to Mr. Beck:

1.) "...At last Mrs. Kucinich doesn't require 35 pounds of air presure and constantly develops slow leaks like "Mrs Beck"

2.) "...At least Mrs. Kucinich doesn't require daily walks and delousing."

3.) "At lesst Mrs. Kucinich wasn't ordered via the mail"

Add your own insult here...

[The Straight Story]

89. No worse than the things we have said about bush and his wife here

:)

[WilliamPitt]

93. GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

No. Bad. Dumb.

a) It won't get any press, as CNN nor any other network is going to cover a story about calling a TV pundit to account via civil suit, because such coverage would be bad for business...

= No Press

b) Such a suit will require money to pursue (legal fees, court fees, travel fees, filing fees) which would be better used for campaign requirements...and what if the trial requires Kucinich to give a deposition, or testify at trial, maybe in the middle of a vital Iowa/NH/SC/CA push? He can't ignore a subpoena, and so perhaps a vital primary comes and goes without his voice, because he's subpoenaed to give a deposition about Glen (fucking) Beck.

= Depletion of already-scarce funds + potential for outside manipulation of campaign schedule by clever defense attorneys.

Not worth the resources.

Bluntly: if Dennis Kucinich (who has a fraction of the money, name recognition and basic campaign infrastructure allegedly required to win primaries) decides to sue some gasbag TV person, my worst fears for his '08 campaign will have been confirmed.

It will mean he has a bad campaign staff, bad campaign manager, and outrageously skewed priorities, all of which come to equal a doomed waste of time and energy in the end. It will mean his pride and personal ego trumps the national need....and worse, that his campaign staff wasn't professional enough to talk him out of such a disastrous course, even if doing so required bungee-ing him to a chair.

Candidates can, and do, freak out from time to time...but campaigns implode when the staff can't control/contain/smother these expected candidate freakouts...campaigns become useless and embarrassing sideshows when the staff blindly deploys such bad ideas (like this) in public because their starstruck idealization of The Candidate won't accept the possibility that he/she is making decisions out of personal motives and anger (i.e. if Dennis orders it, it must be Holy Progressive Writ, and not a temper tantrum)...but hey, if a campaign staff is nothing more than a collection of yes-folk, the campaign was doomed from the start, right?

Run for President, Dennis. Use Beck as a direct-mail plea for campaign funds. Use Beck as a foil in a debate answer. Use Beck six times a week and twice on Sunday...but don't waste time and precious resources in a lawsuit. Yeah, you might win, but you'll get the court papers certifying your victory just in time to hear the next President swear the oath on the Capitol steps.Tilting at windmills like Beck is a luxury you don't have, Dennis, one you can't afford, and one that has nothing to do with the reasons your supporters stand with you.

Beck sucks, but all the other stuff you bellow so eloquently about sucks so very much worse. Priorities! Resources!

Win a primary, Dennis. Just one. Crack 20% in one state. Prove your campaign machine is worthy of the devotion so many give you. Use the "lawsuit money" to build a canvassing/phone-tree database for Iowa, or Hawaii, or Massachusetts, or NorCal, or New Mexico...and win a primary. One. You have the support. Focus, and throw the weight.

If the Kucinich campaign sues Glen (fucking) Beck, then the Kucinich campaign is a waste of time.

Period, end of file.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

94. Glenn Beck is a piece of shit...

And all he cares about is money. God, I would love to sit in a room with him for three hours. That man needs a good verbal kick in the ass.
Duckie

[Mad_Dem_X]

96. Yeah!

I hope he does it.

[RamboLiberal]

101. Go for it Dennis!

I'd encourage all Dems to do this when the RW freaks like Beck go out of bounds and in to the personal!

[MonkeyFunk]

102. And should George W. Bush

sue DUers who insult his wife here?

[RamboLiberal]

103. We're not broadcast personalities

But if a Progressive talk host on a radio/TV trashes Laura a drunk when teen, i.e. that crap a lot of DU'ers just love to bring up about her auto crash killing that boy when she was a teen, I'd say yes!

[MonkeyFunk]

104. Where is there a legal distinction

between "regular folk" and broadcast personalities?

What possible law do you imagine makes a distinction? There's none that I know of.