Here I go again: Hillary still running a FLAWED campaign...

[ddeclue]

1) She still HASN'T apologized for her war vote!
2) She won't come out forcefully and unequivocally against the war like Edwards.
3) She panders to whatever audience she is in front of and changes her views based on the latest polls.
4) She doesn't have a clear and obvious mission other than to advance her own career.
5) She plays both sides against the middle and tries not to offend anyone a la Kerry in the general race.


Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[Dogmudgeon]

1. deleted

Why bother?

--p!

[dave_p]

3. That's not nice

I've little time for the candidate based on statements to date, but that's not nice.

[ddeclue]

6. I must parody people who make preposterous posts..

like the person who posted: Here I go again: Hillary running flawless campaign.

This kind of over the top adulation for a Republican-lite candidate like Hillary need some come-uppance..

Doug D.

[dave_p]

13. No, I wasn't criticizing you

... but the particular comment's gone anyway.

I'm with your reasoned comeuppance, though I extend it to her fellow frontrunners too.

[jgraz]

4. Yes, that's exactly what he said

:eyes:

[dave_p]

15. Why bother?

Just do better? Don't whine at me because your own response was so OTT.

[Dogmudgeon]

26. Sorry, Dad

--p!

[dave_p]

32. And don't talk back

:P

[tyedyeto]

2. I also will say, her only bit of campaigning so far....

has been the M$M telling us she's the frontrunner since immediately after the 2004 election. Why should she campaign when others are doing it for her?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ddeclue]

8. You sound like a brainwashed Hillary robot...amazing..

I'm a committeman for my local Democratic Party and I'm a very serious Democratic activist here in Florida who worked for Kerry/Edwards last time and Edwards this time and put over 1,000 hours into Kerry Edwards, upwardss of 1,000 hours into various Democratic candidates here in Florida in 2006 and am working on doing it again for 2008 for Democrats. On top of this I've put several thousand dollars into Dem candidates over the last 4 years so I guess you are just WRONG...

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[durrrty libby]

14. Yada yada I too am a serious activist and Edwards

has no chance. So you are super duper WRONG

Several thousand? :rofl: very nice indeed

[ddeclue]

20. Laugh all you want...it's true..and Edwards will win

the notion that Hillary could win would be laughable :rofl: if it wasn't so tragic :puke: for our country.

Dream on Hillary-bot...

Doug D.

[durrrty libby]

25. Hey doofus. Edwards can not win

He is the Howard Dean of 08.

Anyway ...dream on Edwards-Butt...Bot...whatever!


and double :rofl: :rofl: and :puke: :puke:


with a few:argh: :freak: :dunce: :hangover: :hurts: :spank: :spank: :spank: thrown
in for good measure

[ddeclue]

27. When you can't say anything meaningful resort to smilies...

and gratuitous name calling...

Actually HILLARY is the Howard Dean of '08...SHE's the mainstream media darling who will get crushed by the REAL candidate in IA and NH and SC early on and never recover...

Have fun with smilies if you want...doesn't make your "argument" any better.

See ya at the polls Hillary-bot...

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ddeclue]

30. Talking to yourself - not me...

All you can do is engage in gratuitous name calling so why don't you just do us all a favor and leave?

You certainly aren't doing Hillary any favors with your obnoxious attitude...

Doug D.

[Clark2008]

31. He's not the Dean of '08.

Dean had more integrity.

[ddeclue]

33. I don't believe that's true...

I don't doubt Dean's integrity nor Edwards - it's Hillary that I have problems with.

Dean's problem wasn't his integrity, it was his campaign wasn't effective.

Doug D.

[durrrty libby]

34. Oh snap, but in a way he is heading in that direction, media-wise

I love Howard Dean and he would have made a great president

I like Edwards but not for president. He does not have IT.

[ddeclue]

37. Ahh but he DOES have IT...just ask DailyKOS...

where he won last night's debate...

REAL Democrats want a REAL Democrat for their candidate this time. Edwards IS the REAL Democrat in this race.

Doug D.

[durrrty libby]

39. DailyKos??? Haha You mean the people who guaranteed

a Lamont win????


Capitalize "REAL" all you want. It will not change the fact that

you are way off base.

[ddeclue]

41. Nope...Edwards is leading in IA, a close second in NH

and will take SC once again as he did in 2004...

That will leave you Hillary-bots out to dry right away...

REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL
REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL REAL

what??? you said I could capitalize it all I wanted...

[durrrty libby]

45. It is wonderful that you just don't care how foolish you look. Bravo!

[jgraz]

9. Riiight, cuz most Repukes criticize people who don't denounce the war

Looks like DU has its own brand of 28-percenters.

[TahitiNut]

16. Word!

Did I hear Al From say something? :puke:

[durrrty libby]

18. You are part of the brain-dead if you think Hillary has not denounced the war.

Like the repuke pundits, reducing everything into convenient, incorrect sound bites

is what fools enjoy.

Go forth and feast

[ddeclue]

21. She ALWAYS equivocates. She can never just say it outright

and there's always a qualifying clause and a weasel word. If you don't see it then you ought to check your own EKG and PET scan for brain activity.

Doug D.

[durrrty libby]

22. You are wrong and you can not insult me because I have judged

you ignorant and sexist.

[ddeclue]

24. I am NOT insulting you for judging me. I am stating facts.

And I would happily vote for a woman for President - just not Hillary. I voted for Geraldine Ferraro for Veep way back in 1984... Did YOU?

Just because I would vote for a woman for President however does not mean that I must vote for Hillary for President lest I be called a "sexist".

Just because all Ferraris are automobiles does not make all automobiles Ferraris. You have engaged in a post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacious argument.

My opposition to Hillary is based on her Republican-lite DLC positions, her strategizing, her poll based campaigning, and her lack of core convictions. I don't trust her to be a Democrat. It has NOTHING to do with her gender. Seems like its YOU who is the sexist against men to me.

Neither am I ignorant because I refuse to go along with all the brainwashed Hillary-bots out there who refuse to recognize that she will not win outside of the Northeast and the West Coast. I recognize a loser candidate when I see one and Hillary is certainly the poster child for losing the White House a third time in a row.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[jgraz]

40. Oh for god's sake

I suppose next you're going to call me a moran? Jesus, Hillary really needs to start hiring higher quality shills.

[ddeclue]

42. Wasn't there a "moran" on Happy Days?

Oh wait that was Joanie... :)

[jgraz]

43. Yeah, I think it was this guy

[ddeclue]

44. The Cardinals called.. they'd like their T-shirt back!

:rofl:

[tyedyeto]

23. Amazing how many Repug pundits called her the 'frontrunner' .....

in 2004 immediately after the election. Those same pundits are the ones calling her the 'frontrunner' today.

M$M at it's best.

[rocktivity]

7. I've nicknamed her "The Mirage"

The closer I get to her, the less I see.

:headbang:
rocknation

[ddeclue]

10. Do I owe you a nickel if I use that line? I like it...

[dave_p]

11. A word for Hillary

About as far removed from my preference as it's possible to be, yet:

And we need a process of engagement... All during the Cold War, we always talked to the Soviet Union. They had missiles pointed at us. They had leaders who said they would bury us. They waged wars around the world. We never stopped talking.

... largely negated by her "at all costs" bullshit. But a faltering first step toward grown-up politics. Can her party follow? can it lead her to true adulthood?

[ddeclue]

12. She is hardly unique in calling for more diplomacy...

how does this set her apart from Edwards, Obama, Biden, Kucinich, Gravel or anyone else on the stage last night?

Doug D.

[dave_p]

17. Not being unique is hardly a recommendation

There's not much to choose between the Big Three on this one.

There's a vast gulf between them and Kucinich & Gravel, who've pronounced against such bullying.

I've attacked all three frontrunners on this score. The formerly resolutely pro-AIPAC Edwards and now Hillary have reined in their rhetoric slightly, and I hope Obama will too.

But they're still for "all options on the table". To hell with that, I want politicians who can talk like grownups, not like petulant addolescents waving the family gun.

[politicasista]

19. And she still hasn't apologized for playing along with a GOP smear

to tear down a good person. Sorry.

[Cha]

28. And she never will.

She jumped right up on that soap box.

[politicasista]

35. Exactly n/t

[thethinker]

36. It is puzzling

It seems to me that she is so professionally managed by handlers. Her handlers tell her to give evasive answers to every question. In trying to offend no one, she is pleasing very few voters. She seems so unreal and out of touch with most folks. I can't imagine soccer moms relating to this. A female running for office should be able to draw votes of other women. Her handlers (DLC sorts) are so bad they can't see where her potential votes might be. They are relying on the same old losing strategy they always use. They must be counting on Diebolt to pull them through.

On the other hand, Kerry had a lot of charisma in spite of his handlers. He also seemed to express opinions that were his own.

[ddeclue]

38. Valid points..re: Kerry I disagree with you..

I was an early on Kerry supporter and YES he does have a certain brand of charisma but even then I thought Edwards was better as the pure handshaker/back slapper connector with voters a la Bill Clinton.

Kerry suffered from the exact same problems you ascribe to Hillary this race (and by the way I DID support Hillary's race for Senate with donations and therefore she is still trying to get money from me for her Presidential race - but I will not back her in the Primary for President because she will lose in the general.)

Had Lieutenant Kerry from 1971 shown up in 2004, he would have kicked George Bush's ass. Lieutenant Kerry was much bolder, much rougher, much less managed and domesticated than Senator Kerry. Lieutenant Kerry had Richard Nixon quaking in his boots. John Kerry was a very effective candidate don't get me wrong (especially in debate#1), it's just that he could have done much better had he told his handlers to go to hell right off and gone back to being Lieutenant Kerry who asked "how do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[politicasista]

46. And also, had the party backed him up and had he gotten FAIR media support

he would be in the WH. :(

I do agree with you about letting him be himself.

[mmonk]

47. I agree. Couple that with the people connected

to her campaign and she's nowhere on my radar for president.

[eridani]

48. If elected, she'll be like her husband--

--blocking some of the worst of the Repub initiatives. I want more than that, though, and in the primaries I'll fight to get it.