It is very difficult to start again from the bottom .

[blues90]

This is not a sympathy thread but reality .

I was a manager making 52,000 per year and had a long time career in the auto dealership trade , over 30 years .

After a manager change and 12 years at that job i was fired with the wonderful at will clause . You have no recourse .

I was there for 12 years and did my job and even was forced to take on many other jobs of people who were laided off .

I found a job after 11 months but it was short lived and ended in a layoff .

Gaps in my employment do not help , being 58 adds to the difficulty I face and to add to this the panic attacks and constant anxiety make it almost impossible to leave the house now .

I get SDI and have gone to vocational rehab run by the state where you basically start from scratch , it took 3 months just to find out if I qualified for their service .

My main fear and dread beside the panic I suffer is not only getting back into the work force but being able to deal with no panicing and getting out of the house .

If I were physically handicapped then I would be less prone to the fear I have . the other fear and dread is starting off on some new career and starting from the bottom at my age . I feel so down about the entire thing .

I do often wonder how many others are in a similar situation whether they are just facing a loss of a good job having to start with something as a wal-mart greeter or some other low pay job with no hope of advancing and without modern skills . I have read much about college graduates who have the skills but no experience required for jobs they seek .

I just don't see a way forward most times , it is difficult to say the least .

I just want to be able to survive , i am not looking to buy and spend on junk I don;t need , just survive .

I must say I have still a tiny bit of ego not that it was big to begin with and I have pride in what I did and do . Somewhere something inside me has died where all interests in past things have gone , my wife feels I am going through my mothers death and a mid life crisis all on top of all else .

[monmouth]

1. I'm a little older than you, don't lose hope. Go to www.aarp.org. I'm

sure they have an area on this. One of AARP's sponsors is Home Depot, who offer jobs to and encourage people of our age to apply. You were in sales, Home Depot needs sales people. Give it a shot, nothing to lose...Much luck and prayers to you.

[Warpy]

12. Yes, the new Home Depot CEO got an online education

in how service at those stores had hit rock bottom and how angry their customers had become. Home Depot is hiring people with experience in the building trades, especially, and I'm sure your familiarity with auto tools will be an asset if you go apply.

I cringed a few weeks ago when I had to go there (they drove all indie hardware stores out of business years ago) and was pleasantly surprised. There were people of our vintage there, they knew what they were talking about, and all the bored IJMJ teenagers were GONE.

I've had to start over quite a few times. It's not easy, and the older we get, the harder it is.

[Red Zelda]

2. Best of luck to you, friend

...I was pushed out a year ago, and have traveled hundreds of miles to work again. I'm a professional with 30-plus years' experience in my field. But at 52, I'm feeling ever more useless.
Stay positive. It's all we have.

[thereismore]

3. blues90, I think your biggest enemy right now is your

anxiety and panic attacks. They can put you in a deep depression. Depression can actually confine a man in bed, so you need to get help while you can leave the house at all. It seems to me that you need to keep your confidence up, otherwise getting a job will be difficult. Some meds might help tremeandously. I take them. I would stay away from things like Klonopin, they are the same as Valium. They work instantly on your anxiety, but make you dependent. Something like Celexa is an anti-anxiety antidepressant, works slower (weeks), but can clear up your outlook without making you into a junkie.

[blues90]

7. I am on valium and lexapro

I can only afford to so my shrink once each three months for refills and do have phone contact to keep updated .

I don't feel much better with the meds . Been on meds for years but with a job I was still hopeful and could cope , your mind is off yourself while working . Somehow the prospect now after 15 months of no job this fear has reached a peak just to get back out in the work force , the loss of ego/pride / self assurance comes second place but it certainly plays a part . I have never been the most positive person on earth but could function and be outgoing to do my work with the public doing direct customer service one on one under stress and came off calm .

[thereismore]

13. Damn, blues90, you've got to do something. If you don't have a pet,

go to the humane society, adopt a puppy, it's really hard to be depressed with a puppy loving you.

Lexapro is a great medicine - it is essentially the same as Celexa, only purer. Maybe you need more of it a day - 20mg or more. It has virtually no side effects. Demand some attention from your doc. Get help, get some friend and ask him to see to it that you send out those job applications. If you don't feel like going yourself, get them to drive you to a job interview, just DO NOT STAY ALONE, do not separate yourself from the world - I know it's tempting. DON'T.

[blues90]

22. I have my wife and 4 cats

She has been on SSI for many years and will never be able to work . So both of us try to keep eachother up . she is more positive than i .

I had all sorts of hobbies even building guitars and selling them but due to the high cost of materials and the cheap imports there is no way to make money off these anylonger .

I was a carpenter too but at my age I can't get hired and here they use immigrants for almost all labor jobs , I don;t blame the immigrants , it's the employers who do the damage to all .

[Morgana LaFey]

59. You have many talents and skills

What excites you? What are you passionate about? I guarantee you there is a way to make a new career out of that.

I had all sorts of hobbies even building guitars and selling them but due to the high cost of materials and the cheap imports there is no way to make money off these anylonger .

I know you're battling depression, but this attitude is defeatist and counterproductive. And, I believe, utterly false. There will ALWAYS be people who will pay good money for a good handcrafted product. I don't think they're bringing in imported handmade, custom guitars, are they? If they are (and I doubt it), yours are superior. Or maybe there's another product you can make? Or maybe you can teach? Try to imagine what you can do to elevate the hobby or interest or skill tht you're PASSIONATE about to something that would also earn you some money. But your heart has to be in it.

If you're even mildly spiritually inclined, ask for help -- esp. in the form of guidance (ideas, direction, etc.) and in the form of more tangible things (prosperity), and do that each day, and fully expect to receive because you will. In all my life, and I'm roughly your age, I've never asked for help and NOT gotten it -- tho not always on my timetable.

Because what we think about expands, the most important thing for attracting new opportunities and abundance into your life is gratitude for what you DO have, and an unswerving faith in your future.

I've gone thru some difficult times myself over the last year plus -- in fact, I am somewhere smackdab in the middle of the most difficult time of my life. I have no idea where it's going and how I'm going to manage to get through it, but simply by using these tools, I have achieved so far what would have seemed a miracle a year ago (and perhaps was). I am going to claim another miracle or several to get through the rest of it.

YOU CAN GET THROUGH THIS! You can succeed beyond your wildest dreams. But you have to believe it and believe in yourself just enough to take the next step -- the one that's calling to you, the one that makes the most sense. That's all you have to do: the next step. And keep on going.

I know you can succeed, and I know that you can have a life of great fulfilment, and great service to the world by finding YOUR special talent and putting it out there for the world's benefit.

If any of this makes sense and you'd like a little more info (some good books, etc.), PM me.

Best of luck to you!

[renate]

30. here are some *free* online sources for cognitive therapy

http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/

http://www.livinglifetothefull.com/

Those two sites are recommended by England's Royal Society of Psychiatrists.

A book recommended by the National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists is this
http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/
and has several chapters online (again, free). Here's the one specifically about panic attacks:
http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/chapter9.html
and the form you can use
http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/exercise.html

I haven't used these websites myself but they come recommended by professional associations.

Good luck. :hug:

[nannah]

51. anxiety disorder resonds well to cognitive behavioral therapy.

a young woman (10 years old) I know has been coping with her own significant anxiety disorder for several years. She was very successful with cognitive behavioural therapy with accupuncture intervention in time of high stress. no drugs. learn to manage this issue. My young friend gets help from her 6 year old brother, who has gained an understanding of this issue. he has been heard saying to her, " amy, it's just your "worry bear" which is the code word for when she is using her fear brain. She understands that her issues are driven by her brain's response and that her fear brain is over vigilent. a reminder of her "worry bear" puts her feelings into a context she can manage.

you need to locate a therapist who is skilled at treating anxiety disorder. also, the role of acupunture can be explored.

[mzteris]

4. The owners will get theirs someday.

I'm sorry this happened to you.

First - are you being treated for your anxiety/panic attacks? It also sounds like you might be (and well-deservedly) depressed, too. Treating that will go a long way to helping you feel "like yourself" again.

Starting over DOES suck. But you still possess the skills that got you promoted the first time. You're probably smart, personable, and take charge. It would take an idiot not to recognize that you have those traits and make use of them and promote you accordingly.

Also - have you ever thought of just doing something completely different? Something in which you have an interest - a hobby or secret desire? The state rehab will train you in what they think you can use - but not necessarily what you WANT to do.

Good luck. Think outside the box. Try something completely new and different! What have you got to lose at this point?

[dogday]

5. You are definitely and rightly depressed, I am concerned

about your panic attacks when you try to go outside...

Home is safe to you, I think, and it has been hard to carry the load you have had to take...

You know you can handle this, things will turn around.. I know it sounds like some cliche, but a lot of good has come from bad like this, and I hope and wish with all my heart that good will come your way....:hug:

[grasswire]

6. may I suggest something?

Any person with a computer can develop their own store on eBay -- a store that is open to millions of people around the world 24/7. It's a store that requires no brick and mortar physical building, no overhead, no staff. Only a small amount of the revenue is assigned to eBay. The harder you work, the more money YOU make. Not your employer, but YOU. You can work in your pajamas whenever you please.

And, truly, the sky is the limit. Many people forced out of the workplace are fully supporting themselves off eBay.

All you need is to have (or buy) something you can turn a profit on. Some people buy goods at wholesale and sell them for a profit. Some people make money by picking up treasures at flea markets and re-selling them to a world audience. Some people sell hard-to-find books, or tools. Some people sell services. Many people sell what they themselves love.

Lots of DUers are working eBay. I've been doing it for seven years. It was like a money tree in the early years, but it is still good even now. And it's something you can take pride in, I think. "I have an Internet store" -- isn't that a cool thing?

Consider it. You could start immediately. Or there are classes at community colleges where likeminded people could encourage you.

[blues90]

11. I have sold alot of items I owned on ebay just to keep going

I tried this thing called internet speedway but the costs were high and the products were well below pare .

It was just items I had and new about , I really don;t have the resourses to purchase items to sell if it is a risk they won't sell .

I noticed ebay is not moving as well as it did a year ago but I have done fair but not as good as before .

I have to look into this more but don't know where to start .

[pitohui]

15. yeah ebay is dead now

it hasn't been good in years and it is only getting worse

[Sapere aude]

27. It depends on what you are selling to some extent. If you have something that is rare it will sell.

I've sold model trains. You get a feeling for what people really want. Mostly it is things that are good quality but are no longer produced. I bought a model train kit last week for $37 plus shipping and I know I can resell it on ebay for $100 or more. The listing I bought it from was not the listing that most people would go to, to find it. The seller did not know the worth of the item to people in the hobby. I'm going to resell it as soon as it arrives. I'll probably make about $70 off it.

[blues90]

28. Odd , I sold HO model trains I had

Did well , got more than I paid , but lately the ones I have left are not selling like they were a year ago so I pay the listing fees and lose . I also had alot of luck selling guitars I build years ago and amps i had and speakers and effects pedals . But these are expensive to buy now .

[Sapere aude]

29. The trains that I got the most money on were ones I detailed myself.

A lot of model railroaders want something special but don't have the skill to build or paint or detail it.

Nowadays you can buy things RTR that are perfectly detailed but cost an arm and a leg. I don't feel like paying $23 for one boxcar that I will end up breaking all the detail off of.

Much of the things that sell well are near mint train items that were sold in the 60's and 70's. I think it is nostalgia mainly.

Keep posting on DU to let us know how you are doing.

[blues90]

33. I did that too

Got athearn locos and others and added high hoods and all details , painted them with an air brush for C&NW and sold all of them to the same fellow , It started out with him asking if I had more and I did . Others were the more expensive models you mentioned with the details in plasitc which is now what people seem to want who don;t want to do detailing .

Now by the time you do all the intricate work and figure the cost of detail parts you end up lucky to get you money back and the time is all for nothing so I gave up . But the ones I sold are ones I did for myself so the time was my pleasure then .

[Sapere aude]

26. A way of doing that without you buying things to sell is to put things on ebay for other people.

You take 20% of the revenue. The seller gets the rest and the buyer pays the shipping costs. You can get free boxes at the post office. Paypal can print the labels and add the postage after the buyer pays for things.

I have sold thousands of dollars of hobby items on ebay and it does take time especially if you don't have a high speed connection. People with things to sell that don't have the time or experience will pay you to sell the items for them. Put a free add in the local shopping guides for your services.

[classof56]

8. Capitalize on your age and experience--I think it's a great advantage these days

Just talked to a friend in her 60s who got a job based on her experience, and she related a conversation with a manager of another organization stating she'd far rather hire older workers. In fact, the average age of employees in her work force was 69. I note in lots of retail stores where I shop many of the staff are older (as in 50s, 60s, etc.). If you are okay with sales jobs, those would be places to consider. Also, you might register with temporary employment agencies--my spouse and I have gotten job assignments through one in recent years (we're both retired) and you might be surprised at the variety of skills and experience they're looking for.

Take heart and move those muscles--you are a valuable asset to today's working force and I'm betting it won't be long till you find just the right niche. So sorry to hear about your mother's death--I went through that not long ago and it's tough to deal with. Time will help heal, though, and you can move forward!

Blessings!

[pitohui]

16. retail sales? so $9 an hour w. no benefits?

i don't know about blues, but shoot me now if that is the hope being offered here -- retail sales, walmart greeter, home depot helper

if the average age of a work force is 69 that is a sad comment on a society where people are not paid enough to even hope to have a dream of saving any little bit of money so they can retire

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Think About This When You Vote

'Free' trade with China and other countries has led to many, many jobs going overseas. I can't believe that so many 'Democrats' will happily support people who supported nd voted for 'free' trade with China.

We have the power to fix this stuff - if we have the brains to use that power.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

32. For whom should we vote?

If we want to fix this situation.

[MannyGoldstein]

47. For Someone Who Didn't Vote For 'Free' Trade With China

Edwards, of course, voted for it - it was cool to be a Rightie back then, so off he went.
Clinton was not yet in Congress, but she is on record as being strongly in favor of her husband's doing here.
Obama didn't - he wasn't in Congress at the time.

The senators that voted against were: Byrd, Feingold, Hollings, Mikulski, Reid, Sarbanes, and Wellstone

[dave_p]

10. Goddammit, it is difficult

Been there, know (some of) the issues.

Gaps in employment? Lie, everyone else does. Find local businesses that went bust, and say you worked there. Like your prospective employer's about to chase a name across a continent for a paragraph confirming you didn't kill anybody? You don't even have to stick to a continent. Go global.

Not lying cost me a lot of jobs that had my name on them. So I learned to lie: way to go, civilization. If you're good, your next boss ain't about to research your past. Or else you were self-employed: the world's largely ruled by fiction as it is, a little more does no harm.

I've had enough of competing with dull, conformist assholes. Invent a life. Watch their little eyes light up with momentary imaginings that there's a world to be had. be their freak catch, they'll love you for it.

[hedgehog]

63. I wouldn't lie on your resume.

If it ever comes to light, you're worse off than you are now.

I wouldn't worry a=bout the employmnet gaps - they're par for course for someone your age.

[rasputin1952]

14. I am there right now....after a lifetime of giving, working and

forward movement, I am suddenly moved into squalor, and am about to be homeless...such is the way things go for some of us. I'm plodding away in college, trying to get my RN, but hopes dim when one ca't even pay basic billls.

But, bush says the economy is hurtling along at breakneck speed, glad he makes his money in the stock market, it's the only thing that is moving forward.

[Sapere aude]

24. Can you find a clinic where you can work as a PA? Then maybe they will help you get your RN.

[rasputin1952]

41. This area is pretty bad, so I'm looking at adjoining counties and

towns.

I have a P/T job, so I'm still alive, but things are ugly around here. I'll be happy to get these things behind me and move back East...Nebraska is 10 years behind the rest of the nation...:)

[ipaint]

17. You are not alone.

My husband and I are 53 and 50, worked all our lives in construction for him and retail and currently artist for me. We are working class who bought the lie everyone could be middle class if they worked hard enough, well we worked hard and hardly ever got past paycheck to paycheck. His profession has been decimated by low wage workers, in fact he was let go 2 weeks ago in favor of a younger worker who was willing to work for less pay and around appalling safety conditions.
I sell my artwork online and have noticed a significant downturn in business now that the fed has shut off the equity spigot. No more redecorating.

We live in a small rv (21') in a campground while my husband looks for work. We have our expenses sliced down to about $1000.00 a month and our dream is to save enough money to buy a used (bigger engine) truck to pull a larger size used trailer (30') and a bit extra money to tide us over the rough spots. We would like to then settle at a campground for large periods of time (year or more preferably) but have the mobility to leave with our home if the jobs dry up. We have no health insurance and don't expect to ever afford any.

We have not given up and continue to put one foot in front of the other and grab any opportunity to better ourselves but those opportunities in this country are few and far between for our age and happily ever after is not guaranteed. Having no health insurance changes one's outlook quickly to one of living today as if it's one of your last.

I try to have a more upbeat outlook and take heart in the fact that we may be going through what most other americans will someday face and possibly much sooner rather than later. A head start of sorts. So I am turning this into an opportunity to see just how little I need to live and retooling my definitions of happy and cared for. I have completely let go of the all american expectation that I deserve a better life or a brighter day. I am finding much more in common with my third world neighbors and learn much from their lifestyles of survival.

All in all living on the edge sucks especially in this country where entitlement to the best of everything your money can buy is a given. It took me a good six months after starting to live this way to settle in and not let the fear and panic consume my thoughts daily.

Now even if we started making some decent money I would not change the way we live. I like the unencumbered feeling. I like the small energy footprint. The lack of a feeling of entitlement. Any extra bankable money would just make it a little easier to breathe. I find myself wondering what it would be like to live in a country where my current lifestyle is the lifestyle of most people. How much emotionally easier, less stigmatizing, it would be with a greater sense of community and support. Personally I don't expect things to improve much overall in the country so I am learning to do with much less in my life.

I wish you the best. I don't share your panic attacks but I know the fear. Even if you don't think things will get better the important thing is to keep moving regardless.

[ellisonz]

40. Welcome to DU!

Hang in there!

:donut:

[Jed Dilligan]

18. At least you are lucky you have a house to hide in,

your story reads like that of so many homeless people.

Not saying I don't sympathize, but reminding you to count your blessings.

Best of luck,

JD

[blues90]

20. We live in an apartment and have the rent

So if we fail we are on the streets . It is difficult to just keep the internet connection and we have one lamp on at best to keep bills to a min .

I have sold just about everything sellable to keep going this long .

All the years I've worked I never made alot except for the last three but we were still paying credit cards we used during the harder times , still have credit card bills but these will soon be lost and the phone calls will begin .

So there is no security for us as with many . wish we did have a small house paid off . We toyed with the idea of living in a RV in campgrounds if we can find one cheap enough .

What a world we live in .

[Jed Dilligan]

25. Be careful choosing your RV park,

if you go that route, and look into local laws. A lot of homeless where I live are victims of a weird law that you can't have a trailer past a certain date of manufacture in trailer parks.

If you're looking at the very bottom of the barrel, consider spending those last few bucks on a one-way ticket to someplace warm. Because, if you find yourself homeless, no matter how hard you play by the rules you will be outside for a considerable length of time.

And again, GOOD LUCK...

from someone who's been there.

[The2ndWheel]

19. Then don't start again

I don't know what path you should take, but why get in the game again? When you're no longer required, what would you be doing it for? This coming from someone who is a few months away from being half your age, but maybe you can use your obsolete-ness to your advantage. Maybe all of us can.

[blues90]

21. I have no choice

SDI lasts a year , i have 6 months left and then I have no money at all . It's either find work or go through the long process of SSDI whcih is very difficult at best . Not many people can live on that either .

One way or the other My wife and I have to find a cheaper way of living than we have already cut down to . It does not look very promising for the future of many people .

[Sapere aude]

23. I have been there. I lost my job paying what yours did. I ended up looking for unexploded

ordnance for $8/hr when we worked. The weather determined that. We lost our condo because we couldn't pay for it. Moved into a one bedroom apartment with a bunch of poor Marines who lived off base.

I went through clinical depression and was in a safe house for a while. I learned that a lot of what was making me feel the way I did was mental illness. I got professional help. Could not pay for it but it came with the safe house.

We eventually moved and I sent resumes to the place we were moving to. I got a job that paid more than the bomb squad did but not as much as I was making.

It's now many years later and I look back on that time as about one of the lowest periods of my life.

I had faith in a higher power and turned my life over to him, sort of like believing in the power of attraction. What you think positively about you set things in motion that brings them to you.

This is a major thing I learned then. If you want to get out of your predicament you have to do something. There is no guarantee that what you do will get you out of it but keep trying. If you don't do anything there is a guarantee that it will not get better.

So, think positive, have a vision, get professional help and keep trying things. You will get over it.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

31. The job market's absolute shit nowadays, take it from me, a youngster

I remember in college I was told how wonderful the "New Economy" was.

Then I got out and saw that it's brutal. The guys up on top look at us like we're ants and they play us against each other. Many college grads have to take up unpaid internships just to gain "experience". And any talk of unionization makes you look like a complete wacko.

But hey it's all wonderful because...like...we have iPods and high-speed internet porn :banghead:

Beware of the DLCers. Same shit as the Republicans except they're not going to take away abortion rights.

EDIT: finally, don't get sad. Get mad.

[blues90]

34. I know , I have read alot about how college grads get screwed

It's a crime , they want the knowledge but also the experience . I feel for you , I really do .

I only graduated high school and many jobs offered on the job training back then in the 60's .

In a way we are in a similar boat , I don;t have the tech skills even though I have the experience at jobs and the pay has been cut down to next to nothing . Getting an education for me now is not an option and even if it were I have no idea what I would train for or even be interested in these days .

This economy and workforce has gone to hell in a hand basket . I don't know if it will ever end , not only do we have to undo all bush has done with this Iraq madness we also have to undo all he has done since then which involves just about every aspect in life from one end to the other . How many generations will this take , maybe five .

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

36. It didn't start with Bush. It began with Reagan

Clinton continued it. Bush continued it with brutality.

Fuck 'em all. We need real change. Wish the corporate-bought politicians would cut their smiley crap.

And we should stand in solidarity.

[blues90]

38. I agree , and I don't see one of the candidates either party

who will change much at all , other than perhaps fix a few of these destroyed issues . They have some sort of lock on the system and nothing to lose . All the money needed to campaign is a huge problem but people don't seem to see this as the problem , this really makes the new candidates just as bad as the ones they bash , they are all in their money game for fame .

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

39. There are two possible solutions

1. keep pushing left wherever we can.

or

2. pray (for a miracle because most people seem to be completely asleep)

[ellisonz]

42. That's why I plan on emigrating.

Now I just have to start studying my Dutch...

[renate]

35. I'm reposting this here because these links may be useful

... and I know that when revisiting a thread to read the new answers, it's time-consuming to catch the ones that are just replies to comments made in the middle.

Times are difficult, psychologically and financially, for a lot of people, so I thought maybe not just you but others might want to see these--there are some FREE online resources for people who can't afford to go to therapy very often. They aren't just articles, they're step-by-step interactive programs.


http://moodgym.anu.edu.au /

http://www.livinglifetothefull.com /

Those two sites are recommended by England's Royal Society of Psychiatrists.

A book recommended by the National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists is here:
http://www.threeminutetherapy.com /
and has several chapters online (again, free). Here's the one specifically about panic attacks:
http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/chapter9.html
and the form you can use, after reading at least the premise of the book, is:
http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/exercise.html

[LBJDemocrat]

37. It's the economy

It's not you. It's not your mind. It's the economy that's fucked you over.

If SDI helps you put food on your family for a little longer, then that's great; but don't get into that destructive mentality about depression and panic attacks. And avoid stupefying yourself, be it with medications or with drugs and alcohol.

I'm in the same boat you're in, except I just graduated. As you said, I have skills but no experience. I'm unemployed, and it blows.

But if things somehow turn around for you, don't forget the shit that you were once in.

In the meantime, do productive things: Work out or write.

P.S. I recommended your thread. It's important that DUers see what the most important issues in this country are.

[ipaint]

43. Agree!

There is nothing wrong with you. Although I know the pat on the back and things will get better posts are well meaning and heartfelt the truth is for many it just doesn't ever get better. The economic system is not set up to assist working and middle class people in their pursuit for a better life. It's set up to exploit. It used to be unions were strong and workers had rights and a voice but now most jobs available to the working class and increasingly middle class college grads are temp/service/slave jobs with no benefits.

Hope for the best but plan for the worst because at this time in this country the opportunity to start over in your 50's just doesn't exist for the vast majority of us who find ourselves pretty much destitute. On top of that we are invisible so speaking up brings replies of chin up, things will get better or if you happen upon a compassionate conservative you'll be 100% to blame for your circumstances.

Just like immigration isn't an "illegal immigrant problem" but an "illegal employer problem", it isn't a "poverty problem" but a "hoarding of wealth problem".

Heck, I've been waiting and voting for a national health care system since I cast my first vote. At this point I've given up and hope the healthy longevity of my female relatives on my mothers side of the family was passed on to me.

[etherealtruth]

44. As so many have stated: YOU ARE NOT ALONE

I don't know if that provides any comfort ... but, it is not you. There is a definite bias against "older" workers.

I returned (or tried to) to the workforce at the age of 43 after ~ 12 years of stay at home motherhood. It took me a year and a half to secure a professional position (its not a great one, but its in my field). At 45 I feel I am slowly moving forward.

I wish you well.

[BrklynLiberal]

46. Exactly wha tI was going to say. There are many of us in the same place...

After 30+ years in Information Sciences, earning $100K per year with all the perks, I am now working for a "Friend of a Friend" doing stuff that a kid out of high school could do, a veritable "go-fer"...for $11.75/hour, with NO benefits, no paid vacation, no sick days.
I do not even get a "Thanks for sending us your resume" when I send in one. It is as if the resumes I send in for jobs disappear into limbo somewhere...

[blues90]

52. I'm sorry this happened

I tried driving for a messenger service but the gas and my old car were too much beside feeling like a complete loser in a world of young people and never being seen as a person .

It was a real horrid experience .

[BrklynLiberal]

54. I totally understand. It is assumed that you must be an idiot to be in this positon.

After being in my previous job, I really felt like shit being treated like someone who was hired as a part of a "Hire the Handicapped" Program.
Everyone around me just assumed that there must be something terribly wrong with me...and their treatment of me showed their attitudes quite obviously.
If they were not disgustingly condescending, they were just plain mean.

[stevedeshazer]

45. Let me tell you my story, my friend.

I, too, was a manager, and a supervisor. I'm 52.

I didn't make quite what you made, but pretty close. And I did it for sixteen years in four different positions for four different companies.

Now, I drive a truck. I make about 1/3rd what I used to make.

If not for my wife's union job, we would be screwed.

I think our shared story is much more common than folks would expect in today's Amerika.

I was great at my job. Anyone who ever worked for me would tell you the same thing. I'm very proud of that, and it keeps me going. But I got fired because I was handed Mission Impossible.

My boss's boss didn't think I did well enough handling it.

So, my boss, tearfully, was forced to fire me. Two weeks before Christmas.

Then, three months later, my father died after having endured the effects of Alzheimer's disease.

Man, I totally understand.

blues90, you are my brother.

[blues90]

49. Thank you for sharing your story

I thought all I had to do was keep doing a good job which I did and was on top of everything . I worked my way up from being a technician repairing the cars and trucks all fords for years and then was asked to take a position as a quality control manager as well as train other techs and help with the problem diagnois . soon this developed into me having to take over the shop foremans job too since he quit , I new little about computers and had to wing it and learn the hard way . then they hired and fired two other shop foremans who let me do their jobs for them and I did because any failure there was more work for me . I knew the products inside out and brought our shop scores done by ford from 25% to 92% and held them there , we were in the top ten in our region . I do know ford is really hurting now and they lost customers after they fired me since I had many customers who called me first to make sure I was involved . Late Karma ?

I still think about this loss , I was finally making money and had a position that was better .

Oh well here we are now in the new amerika screwed beyond our imagination and the effects will last for years if they ever end .

[stevedeshazer]

57. No, thanks for sharing YOUR story

You brought it up.

I have stats too, incredible stats that my teams achieved.

So, now what? What do we do? :)

[blues90]

61. That's the 64,000 dollar question or should I say

The $10 per hour question .

I wish I knew what to do . I don;t feel like I'm better than anyone else however I did put in alot of year and work to get to where I was . Now that this has been stripped away to begen over at my age is not very exciting because people do judge you on what you do , that's reality . I hear people say doing jobs you are over qualified for does not make them feel less , well it makes me feel less . I don;t really care what people think of me , I know myself but out in this world there are games with stigma attached that can;t be avoided . It's difficult enough to get through a working day without the extra baggage society places on you . And if you are forced to do a job that does not use your qualifications then where is the spark and interest or motivation ? Then you look at getting ahead and how is this done now days without alot of luck .

[BluePatriot]

58. Wow,

you sound like my dad, shop scores and all, except he works at a Lincoln dealership. They have been at a loss for 14 months and his Service dept. is the only thing keeping them open. He is about your age and re-training like mad on computer networking, and the old legacy computer programs that dealerships use. I think he wants to consult for dealerships and keep their computers in shape. The only reason he is still on is that he made himself so indispensable around the shop.

He also got a job teaching electronic engine controls once at a technical school but turned it down. He only has some college, they were more interested in his extensive experience, so maybe that is a good route for you to explore.

Best of luck.

[InkAddict]

48. My heart goes out to you as you work through this

and you may think you are alone, but the same terrors have flooded my mind many a'day, up close and personal. It's often a real struggle to determine just what is a "need" and what is a "want" when ugly guilt gets in the way. One feels so guilty for "wanting" let's say something as simple as a banana, yet fresh fruit is definitely one way to take care of oneself.

Someone suggested getting a pet, but pet food and vet care can be expensive, so some interests, however sweet and appropriate they may be for some, must be carefully considered for the long-term. Maybe it's just me, but my dog is NOT just an interest; he's a member of the family and thus his food and care get priority over my wishes for desserts and/or let's say makeup.

To go out means to risk the use of the car, and with the increasing cost of fuel--should I sacrifice this need for the sake of a gallon of fuel or make the best use of that gallon as possible, combining my trips, and be the best driver I can be getting there and back.

Most likely, your previous choices, as mine, were not bad or ill-conceived. The greed of the few has eaten away at what may have been the best groups in America that were not necessarily "middle class" but those that worked at making dreams happen for their families and friends. It is, indeed, enough to set one off in a state of panic and doom. If you were not a responsible person, these things would have little impact on your state of constant frivolous carefree unconcern.

You know, you can still have dreams, but they'll most likely need to stay that way. Use them to pull up in the mind on those "blue" days. Some days, this can feel like sleepwalking and all you'll notice is the big charade, the falseness of that previous confidence and earnestness, but you must do it anyway to stay out of depression and to stay in the light of fresh, truthful life. That's where medication can help--even temporarily.

You know, the bad stuff, if it's gonna happen, will happen anyway, so make some good time out of the time you got. Talk to everyone you meet and tell them you need meaningful work. Be ready to jump in when you least expect it. You will find it--but you just won't ever trust it, again.

[kineneb]

50. dude, give it a rest, apply for disability

if your mental problems are such that you can't hold down a real job, why are you looking for one and making yourself sicker?

I have battled depression all my life, and and continue to now. Even with medications, I am now unable to work full time or at jobs with any stress, and don't know if I ever will be. In fact it was my mental health case worker who suggested that I should apply for disability. Deepest irony: because I have a poor work record due to mental health issues, SS says I don't qualify for disability. So they had me apply for SSI. All I want is coverage for my medications, so I don't go broke trying to stay sane.

Note: Mental health has nothing to do with intelligence or abilities. I am a thesis shy of a Masters, but that thesis will never get written. The stress of taking the classes and doing the work helped push me into the last breakdown.

[blues90]

53. All of you have been great .

I want to thank all of you for your imput and help , suggestions and sharing your stories .

I hope this continues because it does help to know we are not alone in this , it is subject that is not brought up often .

[Cha]

55. You have your

music, too..that's a gift. :)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

56. You can help yourself and help others too

Make some flyers and drop them off in all close neighborhoods. Tell people you are available to :

Do shopping,
Pet-sit
take people to medical appointments
Check up daily on elderly people
Do errands, etc


People, especially the elderly, NEED this type of assistance and they don't know where to get it.

Charge a reasonable fee and expect to be called repeatedly by a small group once you have established your credibility.

[OneBlueSky]

60. explore self-employment . . . make your own job . . .

takes a little creativity and lots of hard work, but it can be done . . . assess your skills and your interests and try to come up with some possibilities . . . you might be surprised at what you uncover . . . good luck! . . .

[truedelphi]

62. Held back in the K&R - I didn't get online

For a few days. (Gueess you can't K&R if it's a discussion that has been around more than 24 hours)

Please keep this discussed.

I was watching "Write and Wrong" last night on the Women's Channel

It's about how an older (age 45?) woman script writer cannot find work.

It started me thinking - is it any wonder that the TV networks only feature young people? How better to make those who are struggling in their fifties than to present the subtle message at all times, 24/7, that those over 29 years old are obsolete.

Youth is right. It is visible.
Age is wrong. It is invisible.
An article in the New Yorker magazine sometime ago reported that it is NOT TRUE that the younger demographic of 18 to 34 buys more and/or switches brands more. There is absolutely no discernible, economic reason that television focuses on younger people.

But it surely helps older people feel powerless.

[hedgehog]

64. Have you checked in with any of the temp agencies?

I had one temp job that ran for 11 months. That was long enough to kick start my unemploymnent again when it ran out. I got laid off at 48 years old and ended up working three different jobs and going through three periods of unemployment before I landed this one. I went from engineer to warehouse supervisor to plating shop supervisor to onion inspector. The last job involved sampling sacks of onions for weight, size and quality, but it also involved staniding on the line and sorting onions when we were chort handed! Oddly enough, I liked working there better than working at my original job despite the pay cut because they were good people! After sending out 2-10 resumes a week for three years, I finally fell into the job I have now when a friend of a friend heard where I was working and offered me a better job! I guess the moral of the story is to just hang in there. remember that you are not your job. If it pays the bills and the people are good to work with, then it's a good job.


Ask your doctor about switching from Valium to Buspar. It's non-addictive and I think it causes less sedation. It's a slow acting drug, more for chronic anxiety than panic attacks.

[blues90]

65. I went to three temp agencies a year ago

went through all their tests but never heard a thing . I was by far the oldest fellow in the places . I really felt in surreal land there but I did it . Now it's almost impossible to get out of the apartment just to go to the store without anxiety attacks taking over . A year can really slice ones spirit into tiny little uncontrollable sections .

[hedgehog]

66. I think you need to touch base with your doctor, because it sounds

like you're hitting a real rough patch. I hope you can afford to do so.

Bythe way, it turns out there is a forum for folks who ar between jobs:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=362

or if the link doesn't work:

Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Lifestyle, Peer Support & Self-Help » Career Help and Advice Group


You might also want to try dipping a toe in the Mental Health Support group. We're a pretty supportive bunch.

[dweller]

67. can't Rec the thread now, but a kick.

:kick:

Reading this whole thread is an eye opener in so many ways.

i'm almost recalling lines, hell, whole chapters from Grapes of Wrath...

hang in there blues90. You are not alone.
dp

[blues90]

68. Thank you dweller