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Dean scream, Gore sigh, and Dukakis calm

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:33 PM
Original message
Dean scream, Gore sigh, and Dukakis calm
I just read an article that derisively mentioned Al Gore's sigh over a Bush comment during the 2000 debate, and was struck again at how even sympathetic columnists buy into the right wing framing of the presentation of democratic candidates.

Consider a range of candidates' emotional presentation.

When Michael Dukakis was asked during a debate how he would respond if his wife was raped and killed by a furloughed convict, he responded on a policy level instead of saying he would go vigilante on the guy and put his head on a stick. The right called him cold-blooded and inhuman.

Howard Dean would frown and get visibly frustrated during the primary debates, and this was turned into a reputation for being angry the made it easy to sell the "Dean Scream" as maniacal, out of control anger when they media played that clip on a continuous loop.

Al Gore's far more restrained presentation during the 2000 debates was characterized as pushy, school marmish, and judgemental. Hmmm... he's disagreeing with the other guy, who clearly has his facts wrong. What is the right tone to take there?

What's worse, is Democrats actually believe the GOP talking points about how they appear.

This led to the very odd performance of John Kerry in the 2004 debates. While he often got good information in he was polite and deferential to Bush to the point of being effeminate--hardly the way to win over rednecks who might not like the moral scolding of the religious right, but believe the talk radio shtick about Democrats being wimps.

Other pols, like Hillary Clinton are careful to modulate their tone and message, and are characterized by the right as "slick" and insincere.

Which ever tack they take, they will be criticized, so why not just act like a human being?

This is still relevant because once the primaries are over, whoever the Democratic candidate is, they are probably going to be tempted to hire the same consultants, who give the same self-defeating advice that can turn personable politicians into robots spewing Hallmark platitudes to face down another trust fund baby pretending to be Andy Griffith.

I have heard every one of the pols I mentioned above interviewed when they WEREN'T running for president, and with the exception of Howard Dean, I was shocked that they actually sounded like real people with real opinions and emotions--and Dukakis even sounded tough and fiesty.

Democratic candidates do have a real problem with their message--they are trying to serve two masters, the American people and corporate donors. This is not a problem for the GOP because their voter base pays very little attention to issues where their interests conflict with corporations--they are too busy worrying about posting the Ten Commandments in 7-11s, and which cartoons will make their kids gay. Democrat voters do tend to pay attention to those economic issues, but if pols pay too much attention to the voters, they will be shut out by the media and demonized by the Democratic party as well as the GOP. If they are too obviously corporate friendly too soon, they won't get votes, which is why a lot of Democratic candidates are populist during the primaries then shit on their base before the general election: they have to convince the corporations that they will be compliant.

That probably makes elections closer than they otherwise would be. Republicans are free to energize their base while Democrats are busy shitting on them, which throws cold water on the people most likely to be foot soldiers to get out the vote and do the person to person evangelizing for candidates.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. (shrug) Theyre going to bitch no matter *what* our guys do.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And if "our" guy/girl doesn't do anything to mock or bitch about ...
... "they'll" just make stuff up and present it as fact.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. True, but I think that's the point. How our people respond to it. nt
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. too often they take it to heart and not responding at all may not be a good choice either
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I liked Obama's response to Rush's "Magic Negro" song.
The press tried to make it a big deal. Obama simply waved it off, said it was supposed to be comedy and that it didn't bother him. The story disappeared.

That won't work with every Swifboating, but in this case it certainly kept Rush from getting free advertising.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. that was about pitch perfect, especially for dealing with racism. the right tone is
he made himself look bad, not me.

Actually, that would work for a lot of personal attacks--not waving it off, but saying the comment reveals more about the character of the person saying it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R !!!!!
You absolutely could not be more correct. And I almost NEVER say that.

They MUST Stop listening to the likes of Tweety, getting all hot and lathered about "Presidential".

Be Real, for Gods' sake, Be Real!
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. thanks for the kick, but your rec vote isn't showing up
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. I can't believe you actually used this meme about Kerry: "he was polite and
deferential to Bush to the point of being effeminate".
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. I don't know if anyone has said that but me. I do believe he won the debates
on content, but his presentation was nothing like what he was in interviews after the election.

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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Who else said that? Only every rightwing pundit ever.
Remember the "metrosexual" label?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. oy. I forgot about that. but my analysis of the debate performance is still my own.
I expected him to dress down Bush a little bit and make him look like a fool without even raising his voice.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. One thing that really impressed me with Edwards during the VP debate
in 2004:
That was actually the first time that Cheney's Lesbian daughter was mentioned, before Kerry brought it up and was attacked. But the first thing that Edwards did was compliment Cheney on how he accepted his daughter's sexuality and what good parents they were. Then he went on to note the hypocrisy. He was just so darn NICE about it that all Cheney could do was thank him for the compliments and grin stupidly. The moderator asked Dick if he wanted to respond, and he simply said no.

Of course, the Repukes were ready for that next time, when Kerry mentioned it, and attacked him for it.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Edwards has the Clinton-like ability to dance between the raindrops and still seem like he cares
He's looking more and more like the guy to beat unless Gore jumps in.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. and then there is bush and Chaney's sneer and stupidity...
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I got to admit, in 2000, Cheney looked good by comparison to Bush
it was clear he was the grown up of the two.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. If press treated Bush like Dems in debate, he would called a sadistic used car salesman with a bad
habit of jutting his head forward and smiling after he gets a lie out without mangling the sentence.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. True! I thought Dukakis's answer was right on. nt
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. yeah, yeah, But MOSTLY. . .
They CHEAT
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kerry cleaned up in the debates; even most of the mediawhores said so
His loss had more to do with self-inflicted wounds (voted for it before he voted against it; slow to respond to the Swiftboaters, etc.), Americans buying into that over-the-top Republican vote-for-us-or-die convention and gay marriage initiatives driving GOP base turnout in just about every battleground state on the map.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. in the debate, content trumped style. I thought wind-surfing and skiing weren't good choices
even though I do both, I know how that looks to rednecks.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. That too...the posh cycling outfit didn't help either
60-year-old men can wear spandex, but not if they want to be President.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. i guess you never saw this then


at least Kerry didn't look like an out of shape dufus as the monkey creature does.

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. I wish I was Dean's advisor after scream incident--I had the perfect antidote
Go on every show that will book him, let them play the clip, laugh and then say, "Well, I'm not a trained cheerleader like George W. Bush. Has that made him a better president? But I did screw that up. Why don't you show me how to do a yell like that correctly?"
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. It wasn't the scream that sunk him.
It was the state of his campaign finances.

The media would like us to believe their playing of the "scream" over and over again did him in.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. If I was Dean's advisor I'd made sure he had a normal Concession Speech prepared. Campaign 101.
The "Scream" would have never happened.

When your candidate is facing the entire nation as a losing candidate in a national primary you have a good Concession Speech prepared and ready to hand to them.

Cause you know Dean was dead tired.

I blame Dean's campaign for that.

And it wasn't the Scream as much as the whole freaking performance of his Rally-type speech aimed at his workers assembled in the room.

It was hugely inappropriate.

Any candidate doing the same would have been in serious trouble.
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bamacrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-03-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. When the media is owned by the right, anything the left does will be shown as wrong.
There is no such thing as a liberal media, if there were we would not be in Iraq, and Bush would not have been elected. Nothing a repub does will ever be blown out of proportion like the Dean scream was. If they had played the entire speech it would have been obvious why he screamed, he was pumped up. But no, they just showed the scream and said is this the man you want as president and all the retards in this country were like, hell no, he screams. WTF.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. yep. even if individual reporters may be liberal in personal lives, who wins editorial decision
owner or reporter?

An analogy I use to explain this in class is to say I work at a car dealership that sells both hummers and economy cars. I think the economy car is a great value, good for the environment, and fun to drive. The boss says push the hummers, not econoboxes. If I push the economy cars instead, what will happen?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
27. Fred Thompson's Fart
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
29. My reactions were NOT right wing. Gore's 'Sigh' WAS distracting but he still won.
Edited on Mon Jun-04-07 06:45 AM by cryingshame
Dukakis's answer WAS pathetic (all he'd have to do is say "this is why we have rule of law, to stop vigilantes).

And Howard Dean's Rally Style speech to his campaign workers in lieu of a traditional Concession Speech to the nation was totally OUT OF DECORUM.

The right wing and compliant media was simply able to use the mistakes effectively.

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