University of Florida student Tasered at Kerry forum

[jefferson_dem]

Run time: 02:23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE   Posted on YouTube: September 17, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 18, 2007 By DU Member: jefferson_dem Views on DU: 8811

 
A University of Florida student is Tasered and arrested after causing a disturbance at a town hall forum, which featured Senator John Kerry, at the UF Auditorium on Sept. 17, 2007.

MORE INFO --> http://www.local10.com/news/14138122/detail.html?rss=mia&psp=news

MORE VIDEO --> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1190097717&p=1

[trumad]

1. They should have billy-clubbed his silly ass.

[Loge23]

3. ..or send him to PC camp? (eom)

[trumad]

5. I was kidding about the billy club

but he did resist being led out of the event.

[subsuelo]

85. nice justification for fascist police state

congrats

[ooglymoogly]

91. the kid was asking some pretty good questions if you ask me.

something like roughly paraphrasing "do you support impeaching '*' and if not is that because you both belong to a secret society, the skull and bones"....and yes I want those questions answered. I for one never forgave Kerry for folding even before the very close vote was tallied after he asked us for money for lawyers to prevent any election fraud and suppression which occurred on a herculean scale and right out in the open with nary a peep from Kerry, unlike Gore who fought it to the last bastion for the protection of the constitution where he was sandbagged by treason.

[RangerRK]

101. 'If your are concerned about Iran - why not Impeach'

Damn good question!

[bos1]

17. You should be ashamed of yourself. nt

[ralphmich3]

54. Why? what was the crime?

I wasn't quite sure what crime he had committed..

[ralphmich3]

58. Big Guy Sen. Kerry will give Press Release

about this incident. I called the august Senator's office and asked what the heck happened in Florida

[subsuelo]

79. the crime was asking the wrong questions

That is America today

[RestoreGore]

69. yes, I'm sure Alberto Gonzalez and Bush would approve of this too

I don't care if he took the mic over, there was NO excuse for how he was treated by these police. Period.

[The Count]

104. Except W would get a woody watching it!

[RestoreGore]

109. He probably already has

[Loge23]

2. Disgraceful

Perhaps the fellow was out of line (time?), but his questions were valid.
Kerry himself, according to published reports, was willing to answer them.
This is just another example of what our country has become. I won't lay all of this on the police either, although in this case they were clearly over-reacting. The police are being shot at and killed everyday in similar indications of impending chaos.
When we have the colossal breakdown of democratic values, of the rule of law, of the most basic tenets of democracy - such as what we have seen these past eight years - the popular culture and the civil behavior of citizens will surely follow.
That being said, the victims questions about Kerry's role in the '04 election are well taken.

[underpants]

7. No he didn't have to carry on like that

I know that sounds like some old man saying that but he clearly knew that he was pushing the line and the cops were clearly trying to take him out of there. Don't forget that they don't know what he has on him. When a cop says you gotta go you gotta go. Code Pink doesn't behave like that-you are going to get arrested or at least detained, fine get your street cred and accept it.

He was out of control.

[LaloBorges]

52. Sign of the times we live

1. The guy asked three valid questions
2. Kerry is a moron
2.1 He should have asked the police to stop harassing the guy
2.2 He should have answered the questions; most of us want to hear the answers.
3. The guy was angry, as many of us are today because of the inability of the democrats
to do anything to control the madness this administration continues to impose on us,
the complicity and lack of guts of the republicans and democrats to do what is right.
Yes, it is a sign of the times and I believe the anger is starting to show in a lot of people
this madness cannot go on for ever until a few people start showing their anger, and maybe
that is what needs to happen, for the masses to start getting angry and wake up the sleeping
politicians.

The reality of all this is that people have become more loyal to their parties than to the country and ideology is today the driving force for the voters, its sad...

[ShortnFiery]

64. I honestly don't think many folks under 30 years old truly embrace how "in the face" of authority

those of us 45+ were in the late 60s and early 70s.
-------------------------

Signs
by Arthur Thomas

The Five Man Electrical Band

And the sign says "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I put my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine outstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that, huh, me working for you"


Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
Fuckin' up the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

And the sign says "Anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight"
So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house
Hey! What gives you the right!
To put up a fence and keep me out, or to keep Mother Nature in
If God was here, he'd tell it to your face, man, you're some kind of sinner



Oh, say now mister, can't you read
You got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't watch, no you can't eat, you ain't supposed to be here

And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" - uh!



And the sign says "Everybody welcome, come in, kneel down and pray"
But then they passed around a plate at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own fuckin' sign
I said, "Thank you Lord for thinking 'bout me, I'm alive and doing fine", oh

[Mojorabbit]

96. Exactly

I am in my 50's and I think it may be due to conditioning of the younger folks due to locker searches, metal detectors, etc and they now think it is all ok and normal. At least that is my best guess.

[Cookie wookie]

136. Here here. The kid was protesting the stolen election that makes

so many of us crazy to think of it and have no power to do anything. He was calling out what he thinks could be some kind of fall Kerry took (skull and bones stuff). He was afraid of the police and what they might do. He may even be emotionally unbalanced. But this country is not supposed to be a police state or act like one and that was police state stuff. I'm seeing it in You-tube more and more. What about a few weeks ago when those restaurant laborers were protesting slave labor conditions by chinese ownership of a restaurant and that poor young girl had her leg broken?

Wake up people. This is not okay nor can it be rationalized away by blaming the victim, even if he did act like a jerk at the podium. He broke no laws and therefore an arrest was unlawful.

[TheFarseer]

156. you can hear in the tape Kerry said he'd answer

the questions. I don't understand why he didn't tell them to stop although he called for everyone to "calm down" Maybe something else led up to that, although by the comments to the video, it doesn't sound like it. I don't understand at all why this guy was being asked to leave.

[Nailzberg]

4. I would've tased him, too.

Say I go to a forum to hear John Kerry speak and answer questions, and some schmuck gets up to the mic and asks silly ass questions, then makes a fuss when police attempt to escort him from the room? Tase him again, just for taking time out of my day.

[Buzz Clik]

6. Jesus H. Christ. Such melodramatic horseshit.

Why do disruptors always start screaming for help when they are being escorted out? And why do they always get physical with the cops just seconds before they get out of camera range?

This was a setup by this jackass. Lucky thing his pal had the camera rolling, eh? And the audio is oh-so-clear. Lucky for that, too. Why is it that the kid's voice is so clear, but the cops' voices are barely audible?

[underpants]

8. HELP! HELP!

:eyes:

I agree. When a cop says you gotta go you gotta go at least in that setting. He clearly played it up and did it all for his own blog (there is a thread about it).

[Buzz Clik]

9. It's become a standard script for those being arrested after an intentional disruption.

[ralphmich3]

55. Good questions - I want to know the answers too

from the kid... so he went over a minute to ask three questions? that deserves arrest?

[ralphmich3]

77. Video Response - Excessive force

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jkgv2E8NWs

[Cybergata]

123. Excellent Questions n/t

[Nailzberg]

14. Not just the blog, but the fore-coming lawsuit against the university

Expect to see a Larry King appearance soon.

By the way, I read some of his other blog entries. Someone should have tased this kid a long time ago.

[underpants]

15. :-) I did too

:bounce:

Oh by the way
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3529213

[ralphmich3]

57. His Blog better than MStream Media??

maybe the kid's blog has more information than the junk we get from corporate media..

[ralphmich3]

56. Try reading Greg Palast's book

I don't think the kid was spouting non-sense

[bos1]

20. You should be ashamed of yourself. nt

[Nailzberg]

30. Yeah. I should. I need a role-model

I didn't have anyone to teach me to physically resist arrest when I was growing up.

You can't flail away, kicking and screaming, within reach of a loaded weapon. Day one of weapons training, safetied or not, don't let anyone near your weapon.

[orleans]

86. yeah, always good to tase after you're down on your stomach

and handcuffed

you're a real fucking threat held down by a bunch of cops on your stomach and handcuffed

ZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

[Nailzberg]

143. The subject was not handcuffed at that point.

He is down on his stomach, but he is still resisting. Watch again.

[Nailzberg]

154. -

-

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. How were those silly ass questions?

I know if I ever got two minutes of Kerry's time, I would ask him the exact same questions.

[Nailzberg]

35. It's silly ass to ask a question and continue talking.

I suppose I was wrong to say the questions were silly assed.

Not allowing the speaker to respond is a silly ass way to ask a question. And that's what he was doing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Oh I didn't see it that way.

He asked several questions. I have seen many people do that at events like this.

[Nailzberg]

144. At some point you have to give up the mic and allow your questions to be answered.

Otherwise, you're pulling a Bill O'Reilly. You're just trying to make your questions into statements.

This guy was trying to make a statement. And while I agree with that on free-speech grounds, once he was asked to leave the forum by police, he should have. But he instead physically resisted a lawful order to leave.

[W T F]

41. Yes but...........

It's not illegal............... which brings me to the first question....what law did he break to get him arrested to begin with?

[mrdemocrat78]

66. What was so silly about the questions?

I don't find anything silly about those questions.

[The Count]

105. I hear they have openings at Abu Grahib. You love dogs?

[mockmonkey]

10. What a schmuck n/t

[bos1]

21. You should be ashamed of yourself. nt

[mockmonkey]

27. The guy could have asked his questions

without all the bullshit. I think I want to tazer him myself.

[golden voyages]

11. I thought I was on DU not FreeRepublic

The kid just asked a question, and a legitimate one at that. The kid was NOT out of line. This is (or was) America for God's sake.

Where's the outrage???

[sui generis]

13. have to agree with you

it was just a stupid kid. Why did those horseshit fat donut eating motherfuckers have to pull out a taser? Weren't eight of their fat asses enough to manage one unarmed student?

How fucking embarrassing for them.

[Nailzberg]

16. Reports indicated he was out of line.

From what has been reported, he made his way to the mic out of turn, actually asked several rambling statements/questions and continued to speak after his questions, not allowing Kerry to respond. When he was asked to leave, he did not comply. When the police attempt to escort him out, he physically resists.

And he plays it up way too much for the cameras. He was looking to make a disturbance.

[The Count]

106. Reports? Have you seen the..um..video?

[Courtesy Flush]

108. Shame on any of you who condone this!

This was torture as a response to a student exercising his free speech. He was first accosted by the officers for merely asking questions (hard to make out what he said), but he did nothing to deserve torture. Don't bitch about Guantanamo and applaud this treatment.

http://onemansblog.com/2007/09/17/the-tasering-will-continue-until-you-all-submit/

I'm really disappointed in you guys.

[girl gone mad]

116. Why would anyone rely on reports..

when there are several videos of the event available. Nothing this kid did deserved arrest or tasing.

[bos1]

22. EXACTLY. I'm outraged. Watch the fuller video.

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

[Mugsy]

32. Damn straight!

I can't believe anyone on here could condone this obvious abuse of power and violation of free speech. The "Fascism virus" hasn't infected my psyche yet. I'm still offended by this kind of crap.

[mrdemocrat78]

63. DU isn't like what it used to be

I hate to say it, but a lot of the people here have become just like the right wing hyppocrates.

I'm sorry, but the kid had EVERY right to ask those questions. This is still America.

Whether you like the questions or not, they are legit and he has a right to ask them.

If we are already letting what little power we have go to our heads, then perhaps it is best that we have a republican president to go along with our Democratic House & Senate; keep some checks in place.

Honestly, sometimes you guys scare me more than the republicans.

[Festivito]

12. Anyone know where the FULL VIDEO is? Is kid a RW plant?

I'd like to see the whole question he asked, not just the RW enhancing cut version that the media will only play.

Even the Young Turks claimed the question was short at a minute and a half, BUT DIDN'T PLAY IT -- after claiming it was less than half a long question.

Also wondering if anyone knows who he is since the RW is getting a lot of mileage surrounding this. And, since it has a visual, they'll get a lot more mileage for some time to come.

[CGowen]

18. here is a 3:55 minutes clip , I haven't watched it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag

[Festivito]

82. THAT'S BETTER. Thanks. Kerry was fine. Kid goofed, police goofed.

Kerry waited until the kid would quit repeating. Whatever might have initiated the police action looks to have been hidden from Kerry's view.

And, he said he'd answer the question and with that tried to stop the police properly. If the police had reason unseen by him, it was up to the police. And he allowed for that.

It looks to me that the police should have stopped when Kerry indicated it should end, but, maybe they didn't hear it.

The kid was out of line, and if he then expects everyone else to not make a single mistake, well, then the kid is mistaken.

And, so are the rest of the pundits.

[bos1]

19. Fuller Video for you people who hate dissent

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

Listen people, DEMOCRACY is not orderly or neat. This guy was asking, energetically yes, some questions that we all want answered. Watch the video. He's finished asking and Kerry starts answering when police start dragging him out. He can't believe it and neither can I.

[MessiahRp]

26. Not energetically at all...

This guy was clearly trying to cause problems and make a scene. As I state earlier, he seems like a College Republican there attempting to embarrass Kerry and that Campus Police knew he was up to something.

This isn't about dissent. This is about someone trying to mock the speaker in a way that makes him appear foolish. He didn't really want an answer, he wanted to embarrass Kerry...

This is not too far different than the piefacing of Coulter and Kristol. Those kids wanted attention and so does this one.

He doesn't want an answer.

Rp

[ralphmich3]

62. Republican Asking about Impeaching Bush?

before a war with Iran starts?? that is what a college Republican would do? A college Republican carrying around Greg Palast's book "Armed Madhouse"?? If this guy is really Republican just playing a role, he is doing a damn good job of acting.

[MessiahRp]

87. It's one of two things...

Either he's a Republican trying to play himself as a fringe lefty nutcase which puts Kerry in an awkward position, or he's the far left wing guy asking things to put Kerry in an awkward position.

He wasn't asking questions like he wanted answers, he was asking them in a way to make a spectacle of the whole ordeal.

That's what I find disturbing.

Did he deserve to be tasered? Probably not. But he continued to resist being taken out of the room.

Right or wrong about his removal for indisputably erratic behavior, Kerry offered to answer the questions.

Rp

[ralphmich3]

92. A Republican buying Palast's book???

reading it and carrying it with him to an event??? And then crashing the event.... Wow.. that is one ambitious, serious Republican doing a great (full-time) job of imitating a left-winger..

[ralphmich3]

94. #2: Far leftwing guy like Greg Palast

LOL!!! You got to watch out for the left-wingers (like Palast)... they're real sneaky with all their "facts" and information... and the go off and write best-selling books and such.

I'll bet there are even some sneaky far left-wingers here at DU!!!

CAREFUL!!!

[girl gone mad]

118. He was talking fast because he wanted to get through..

all of his questions. To say he wasn't going to let Kerry answer or he was solely there to create a spectacle is pure speculation.

When I read posts like yours I have to wonder what kind of society have we become? I went to school with some obnoxious kids who would often interrupt class to ask long winded questions or tell unrelated stories. They were never so much as kicked out of the room, let alone arrested, held on the ground and shocked.

[MessiahRp]

121. I have never said I wanted the kid tased

Not in a longshot... but if you read the background to what happened there and the confrontation this kid apparently had with the police earlier, you'd see this was clearly an attempt at disruption. On his own website the guy bragged about heckling Ken Griffey Jr to the point of drawing his attention. How is this any different?

Rp

[creeksneakers2]

128. I saw it that way too

The student said he had three questions and asked three ( and made three short emotional speeches). Kerry was starting to answer and indicated to the cops that everything was OK. Then cops started escorting student out.

From there up to the tasering I blame the student. He was clearly pushing the cops away from him, screaming, and in one video I saw the student throw a couple of wild swings the cops' way.

It was possible for the cops to let the student go and hope that he'd calm down and take his seat. That's not something cops ever do. To get the student under control they had to wrestle him to the floor and cuff him.

I don't think the cops had to taser the student but if they hadn't he would have resisted all the way to the police station.

I don't see anything unusual past the unnecessary escort out. Cops always handle resistance the same way.

[ralphmich3]

65. KERRY SHOULD NOT HAVE CONCEDED, 2004

that what was a crime on the American voter....

[Festivito]

83. And, perhaps Gore should have had US storm SCOTUS with weapons.

Both Gore and Kerry capitulated. It's a pattern.

SCOTUS Supreme Court of the United States

[bos1]

23. recommended nt

[The Animator]

24. You really don't need to plant a RW at UF.

That whole campus is crawling with republicans. *shudder*

[MessiahRp]

25. There's something awfully fishy about that guy's performance

He seems like a College Republican there to stir the shit (maybe Campus Police were aware he'd pull this and gave him a fair shot on the mic before he decided to go too far and harrass Kerry).

Most everyone stays sitting down but only the one other girl is yelling on his behalf and strangely enough he has his own personal cameraman to record the situation for him... also and someone else mentioned it here, you can clearly make out everything he is saying on the audio yet the police are impossible to hear. Which makes me think he was wearing a mic.

This seems staged and his reaction afterwards seems phony and set up in a way to embarrass Kerry.

When Edwards was running for VP he came to Oshkosh, WI. I was a part of that event and although there were a ton of positive Democrats there for him the Republicans sent a handful of their nuttiest to try to protest him and his visit. When we went outside I asked why they were protesting... after all he hadn't started an illegal war, wasn't in the White House and had very little power in the Senate as part of a minority in both houses of Congress.

They made reasons up... Abortion... Guns... whatever it took to justify being there just so they could try to interfere with his presence.

I get the feeling that this is what this kid was doing and his scheme worked because now the national media is making Kerry look like he was part of something seriously disturbing and he's probably lining up RW trial lawyers (funny how that is supposed to be an oxymoron) that will sue the police for this kid.

Rp

[CGowen]

29. Here is his homepage, he is probably for 911 truth, because he has a link to Zeitgeist

http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/reviews.asp

http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/




If you have questions about controversial stuff you can ask Kerry, like they did in Austin about wtc 7
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-955657057307857786&q=kerry+wtc+7&total=29&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

[stlsaxman]

148. He's not just ANY Andrew Meyer- he's THE Andrew Meyer!

Make no mistake- Accept No Substitute!

This guy's THE ORIGINAL! Yup- the original nutjob....

how sad when you have to disrupt a speech of a Senator to get on national news to feel like your life is worth something/anything.


Pathetic.

[FraDon]

124. "Fair Play for Cuba!" Where's your bullshit detector? The kid was a provocateur.

MessiahRp has it right. The kid was over the top, brought his camera crew, incited his disruption. We used to see lots of this behavior under Cointelpro: disrupt, divide, discredit, disgrace. I hope some up & coming Woodward/Bernstein on the student paper will flush this bird into the open.

Note: I agree we want / need for answers to those questions, independently of how rudely he seized the microphone, or whether or not the campus cops overreacted.

[Mugsy]

28. What's worse? Kerry standing there and doing nothing to stop it, or...

...or the fact rent-a-cops are being used as a private Gestapo?

[cosmik debris]

33. What an IDIOT

Does anyone really believe that it is OK to violently resist police officers operating in the line of duty?

Does anyone really believe that violent resistance will NOT result in PAIN?

What a DOLT!

[bos1]

45. What would Zappa do?

You should be ashamed.

[cosmik debris]

47. Perhaps he would point out the terminally stupid behavior

When the kid was warned that he would be tasered if he continued to misbehave -- he continued to misbehave.

An obvious potential Darwin Award winner.

[bos1]

49. Behave, be quiet, get in line, follow orders

or get tasered. Nice philosophy.

The earthquake is Zappa spinning in his grave.

[cosmik debris]

50. The sky is falling! THE SKY IS FALLING!!. n/t

:rofl:

[ralphmich3]

59. WHAT was the crime??

Asking three questions in a row??? That required four officers and an arrest??

[Mojorabbit]

97. He is a college kid

He looked like he could not believe that the cops were dragging him away and became even more hysterical.
I could have removed him without all this fuss myself for pete's sake. I would have freaked if I was grabbed from behind but then been ok as I have training on how to passivlely be arrested. Obviously this young kid did not.

[newburgh]

34. Thinking I would get some reasonable comments on DU about this...

I realize that this place has become freeperville, save for a few.

As an activist whose been in situations where I could ask some hard hitting questions, I've become emotional myself. It comes with the territory. I get the impression with the comments here that very few must actually get out there and do any more than sit in front of their computers. None of his questions were unreasonably stated and none of them could be construed as inciting a riot. That he expected to be able to stay and listen to the answers to those questions is also not unreasonable. To suggest that this was some sort of "set up" to embarrass Kerry, when he's already embarrassed himself by not acting on these issues that most DU'er's would agree with, is idiocy.

I cried when I saw this. It makes me sad everytime I see what a sham this "democracy" is. And it's worse when I see DU becoming more accepting of such anti-democratic, unconstitutional bullcrap...

:thumbsdown:

[cosmik debris]

36. This was NOT civil disobedience.

It was quite uncivil. If the guy had behaved himself in a way that would bring credit to his position, I would respect him. Instead, he behaved shamefully and brought discredit to his position.

I'm sorry he got hurt, but intelligent people know that when you resist half a dozen cops, you get hurt. He is either lacking in that intelligence, or he wanted to get hurt. That certainly lessens my sympathy.

[newburgh]

40. I try to put myself in his shoes...

As someone who has learned that sometimes it is not worth the trouble to resist, I would not have in this situation. However, this is a college kid, arrogant, naive, like many of us at that age. It is not so much a lack of intelligence. They were intelligent, relevant questions that I would sure hope many DU'er's would like answered. To not expect a violent reaction to the simple act of asking questions is pretty reasonable. I believe he carried on at the realization of the absurdity of it, a situation that became even more absurd with the police reaction. Being tasered is an overreaction by a bunch of otherwise trigger happy cops who now rely more on these (sometimes fatal) weapons than proper training. This is a communication failure on the part of the police who are supposedly experienced, trained individuals. I would think taking steps to avoid such resistance would be a first step in dealing with it. They did not do this, it is the cops who incited this guy, as if it was they who wanted the opportunity to taser the guy.

[cosmik debris]

42. This was NOT "the simple act of asking questions"

The kid misbehaved. If he had behaved well, the outcome would have been much less upsetting. But the kid misbehaved.

It was not the questions that caused the police to intervene, it was the misbehavior that caused the police to intervene. The kid misbehaved.

Then the kid escalated his misbehavior. This resulted in the police escalating their response. It wasn't the questions that caused the escalation, it was the kid's misbehavior that caused the escalation. The kid misbehaved.

I don't like the outcome at all, but the kid was warned that if he did not behave he would be tasered. He continued to misbehave. He got tasered. The kid misbehaved.

So, let's recap. The kid misbehaved. The kid continued to misbehave after the police tried to intervene. The kid escalated the misbehavior. The kid was warned that he would be tasered and he continued to misbehave.

And you blame the cops. :shrug:

[bos1]

48. That's the reasoning of the Good Soviet

or the "Good German".

[ralphmich3]

61. Misbehave = Crime??

what was the misbehavior, exactly?? raising his voice? asking more than one question?

[cosmik debris]

72. He started off just being rude

He was recognized to ask a question and he decided to give a speech instead. That was the first misbehavior.

When the officers tried to escort him away from the mic he became violent. That was another misbehavior.

When he was lying on the floor with 6 cops sitting on him telling him that he would be tasered if he continued to resist -- he continued to resist. That's not just misbehavior, that losing touch with reality.

I don't know what laws were broken there. I'm not a lawyer. That is why I didn't use the word "crime".

[ralphmich3]

74. being rude is a crime?? wow....

Well, generally police arrest people for possible crimes. I wasn't quite sure what the crime was in this case.

about being rude: I didn't know the seriousness of rude behavior. thanks for the warning..

[cosmik debris]

75. I don't understand why you keep talking about crime.

Are you under the impression that police can only act after a crime has been committed?

The person who owns the hall gets to decide who is trespassing and who is a guest. If the owner of the hall decided that this person was no longer welcome, then the crime of trespass may have been committed. If that was the case, the police had every right to escort the kid from the hall.

After the police decided to escort him from the hall, he seemed to be in violation of two laws, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. There was also a possible assault on a police officer and interfering with a police officer in the line of duty.

But like I said, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what crimes were committed, because I don't know the laws in that state. But I do know that if the kid had used his head he wouldn't have gotten hurt.

[ralphmich3]

78. Crime - police were involved, arrest was made

Usually police get themselves involved in cases where a crime has occurred. Not in cases where people are "rude" or "annoying".

[cosmik debris]

81. Usually. You said "usually" three or four times now.

Did you think that this was a "usual" occasion?

Are police only allowed to act after a crime has been committed?

Who put you in charge of making up the rules for cops?

[ralphmich3]

93. I like the word "usually"

I especially like the u's at the front... This maybe the first time a taser has been used on someone who was unarmed, had not committed a crime but was being "rude".

[cosmik debris]

111. How do you know that he did not commit a crime?

And how do you know that the police were not justified in escorting him out of the building?

As for potential violations of the law, it is clear that his conduct was disorderly. It is clear that he resisted arrest. It is probable that he assaulted a police officer. Those are crimes. So when you say he had committed no crime are you saying that he behaved in an orderly manner? That he did not resist arrest? That he did not assault a police officer? The clip I saw says you are wrong.

[ralphmich3]

132. "disorderly", in what way??

Was his voice too loud?? He asked three questions instead of one?? That is the disorderly conduct which results in arrest?? It seems we have a peculiar strain of fascism here at DU....

[cosmik debris]

133. Haven't you ever seen a temper tantrum before?

When I watched that display I couldn't help but think how much his behavior resembled that of a 4 year old who needed a nap.

[ralphmich3]

150. NOT A CRIME - NO ARREST NECESSARY...

You are have a big problem distinguishing between "crimes" and annoying behavior..

You seem to be advocating a fascist, police state - Zappa would be VERY disappointed

[cosmik debris]

151. Tell it to the judge

The police are empowered to keep the peace. They charged him with a crime. I'm sorry you ar too emotional to see through your tears. Get over it.

Zappa hated stupidity. He hated tantrums. I'm sure he would have hated this stupid tantrum and all the stupid supporters of stupid tantrums.

[Cookie wookie]

142. This makes me think of Bobby Kennedy:

ROBERT KENNEDY QUESTIONS KERN COUNTY SHERIFF, 1966

Sheriff: Well, if we have reason to believe there's going to be a riot started, somebody tells me there's going to be trouble if you don't stop them, then its my duty to stop them.

RFK: You go out there and arrest them?

Sheriff: Absolutely.

RFK: Who told you that they were going to riot?

Sheriff: The men right out in the field that they were talking to said if you don't get them out of here we're going to cut their hearts out. So rather than letting them get cut you remove the cause.

RFK: This is a most interesting concept, I think, that you suddenly hear talk about that somebody makes a report about somebody's going to get out of order, perhaps violate the law, and you go in and arrest them, and they haven't done anything wrong. How do you go arrest somebody if they haven't violated the law?

Sheriff: They are ready to violate the law,in other words... just like these labor people out here...

RFK: Could I suggest in the interim period of time, in the luncheon period of time, that the sheriff and the district attorney read the Constitution of the United States.

http://www.paradigmproductions.org/voices/voices.html#anchor1633406

The film of this testimony is in the movie, "Bobby."

Forgot to add, this quote was taken from testimony in Congress in 1966, in the Subcommittee on Migratory Labor. The bold emphasis is mine.

[cosmik debris]

145. Not even close to the same thing

In that case the suspects were taken into custody to prevent a future crime. In the UF case the suspect was being escorted out of the hall to prevent disorderly conduct in progress. The officers did not need to wait for a grand jury to indict the man to know that his conduct was not appropriate for the venue. That gave them the right to intervene. It did not give the kid the right to resist.

Enough of the melodrama. This is the story of one kid throwing a tantrum. eom.

[stlsaxman]

149. Add "Jumping to the head of the line" as his FIRST misbehavior

and you see the "kid" was purely a self serving glory disrupter looking for attention. This guy WANTED to get tazed.

[cosmik debris]

153. Thanks, I was not aware of that when I made my post. n/t

[newburgh]

107. I do nothing wrong except "misbehave" with non-inciting words...

then I should expect that being tasered is acceptable. I'm sorry, but maybe I AM in the wrong country under the auspices of an irrelevant piece of paper we quaintly refer to as the Constitution.

He was informing the room of what was occurring. Since when is that "misbehaving"? The police may not have liked it, but, yes, I believe they did inflame and incite the ruckus.

[cosmik debris]

113. Nothing? You're kidding right?

Did you not see him resisting arrest? did you not see him fighting with the cops?

Perhaps you don't have the same definition of disorderly conduct that the police have.

Despite the melodrama, this is not about the Constitution. It is about a person's right to disrupt a civil gathering, and the police right or duty to keep the peace.

[girl gone mad]

120. No offense, but...

I think there is something really sick about the argument that you are making.

[cosmik debris]

122. And I'm shocked that so many advocate un-civil disobedience

without realizing that you give up the moral high ground when you give up civility.

[ralphmich3]

134. Shocking!!!! Everyone ain't a MLK Jr.

Or a Ghandi...

[Name removed]

141. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ralphmich3]

135. Shocked at the Georgetown Law School protest

of Alberto Gonzales??? Those protesting students were "rude" and "disruptive". They unfurled a banner during Gonzales's speech. Should they have been tasered and arrested too?

[cui bono]

99. Yes, if we would all just BEHAVE ourselves. Good grief. How did he not BEHAVE?

[cosmik debris]

115. Disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, assault, trespass

Do I need to go on?

[cui bono]

117. Uh, yeah then you might find one other thing he did wrong.

The only thing he did was resist arrest, and there was no cause for arrest.

[cosmik debris]

119. Of course there was cause.

It is called disorderly conduct.

[cui bono]

138. All he was doing was asking a question. People here think being obnoxious

and not how they want someone to be is enough to warrant resisting arrest. Being a little excited and a bit snarky is hardly disorderly conduct.

[cosmik debris]

140. That's not all he did

It may be all you saw, but clearly there was much more there that just asking questions.

When you pick a fight with half a dozen cops, you lose. If he didn't want to lose, he shouldn't have picked a fight.

[cui bono]

146. There is no way the taser was justified.

You can see about 6 cops on him, he was on the ground. If 6 cops can't cuff that guy they need to find another profession. The taser was excessive force. And I heard that at least 2 of the cops were put on leave. Clearly there's a reason for that and it isn't a thank you for a job well done.

The taser is supposed to be used as a last resort, and in lieu of lethal force. Cuffing one guy simply does not warrant the use of the taser.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cui bono]

155. Well your ideas and definitions of insanity show what a sad, terrorized,

police state we are heading towards.

I'm truly sorry you feel that way. It scares me.

[bos1]

43. this is NOT what democracy looks like

In functioning, non-police state democracy, such questioners are tolerated all the time (in Europe for example). In fact even Kerry had no big problem with him and was starting to answer his question before the goon squad moved in.

This is sick, and somehow worse that DUers are defending it.

Is US democracy so far gone?

[cui bono]

90. Exactly. The attitudes in this thread are even worse than the tasering.

[Lorien]

126. Well said, newburgh

I think that if the man at the podium had been a repug the comments here would have been very different. That in itself makes me very worried for the future of the Democratic party.

[W T F]

38. What riot?

In order to incite a riot, one must take place.

This guy was not out of control, the cops were. If they thought he had over stayed his time at the microphone, they should have at least told him to leave or he would be arrested but instead, they tackled him without any attempt to defuse the situation. They have an obligation to do that. He was later charged with disorderly conduct but at the time of his arrest, he was told the he was being arrested for inciting a riot which proves that they didn't know what they were arresting him for to begin with. No doubt, there will be a lawsuit and these cops don't have a leg to stand on.

[navarth]

39. I don't belive some of you people

Frankly I don't care if he's the biggest asshole in the world!! These cops shouldn't be doing this with impunity. NO, I haven't watched the entire video yet. Maybe he's a jerk. Maybe he's a plant. I DON'T CARE. This is inexcusable. If I'm John Kerry I'm leaping off the stage and telling those cops to get off him. He can sceam and rant and I might hate his guts but NEVER would I condone what they did. Want a police state? Then keep letting this happen. Think this guy's an asshole? You just gave him the moral high ground.

[bos1]

44. Truly disappointed in some of DU today

The guy is hyper but he's just finishing and Kerry is starting to answer.

Then yes he gets hysterical but he is also being manhandled and then TASERED for asking annoying questions in an annoying manner.

It's the cops and probably Kerry's handlers who should be feeling the heat and receiving the scorn.

[cui bono]

114. Well said. And welcome to DU...

that is if you haven't left for good after reading this sickening thread.

:hi:

[creeksneakers2]

129. If Kerry had done that

the cops would have arrested Kerry too.

[bos1]

46. Democracy in US is DOA

ONE person applauded the guy's questions when he finished. LOTS of people applauded him being manhandled and dragged away by police.

The American people have lost the plot.

[ShortnFiery]

68. I fear that many of Billy McGuire's "Eve of Destruction" predictions were forty years too early

The eastern world, it is exploding
Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’

But you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Don’t you understand what I’m tryin’ to say
Can’t you feel the fears I’m feelin’ today?
If the button is pushed, there’s no runnin’ away
There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave


And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Yeah, my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’
I’m sitting here just contemplatin’
I can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don’t pass legislation
And marches alone can’t bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin’
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for 4 days in space
But when you return, it’s the same old place
The poundin’ of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don’t leave a trace
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace

And… tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend
You don’t believe
We’re on the eve
Of destruction
Mm, no no, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

[insane_cratic_gal]

51. In a later clip

In this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1833205&mesg_id=1833205

the kid states

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1190097717

he says "Everyone that was here today, please, Ask them, ask them where is the guy who was arrested at the protest"

So it was clear what his intent was. Also funny how he made sure there was camera person recording the whole time.

Entrapment and staged and far as I can tell the guy made sure to incite violence by stating the forum was a protest, it wasn't a protest it was a Q&A wasn't it?

He say this as a protest, he went into like that as well.

I have no qualms with someone who disagree with another but his approach was very aggressive and very intentional, he wanted to get that reaction. otherwise he wouldn't of recorded it.

[ralbertson]

53. Statement from John Kerry regarding yesterday's UF incident:

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."

[Don1]

60. Would be great

If John Kerry could publicly answer the questions on his blog and also try to make sure the kid is okay. Maybe he could intervene and help mediate the outcome which he should have done while there at the meeting.

By the way, did you or anyone else notice the police officer poking and prodding the kid while he was trying to ask questions? Anyone notice how the woman police officer gasped and freaked when he referred to Clinton's impeachment over a "blowjob?" Anyone see her whispering to the other mall cop about what they were going to do when he said we should impeach Bush? These over-zealous cops thought he was inciting a riot because that is what the police officer said in the video. No, he was a little nutty and very excited. He was hoping to get good feedback from the audience (not a riot) and some good answers from Kerry.

[creeksneakers2]

130. I think the inciting a riot issue

came from the kid shouting to the audience for help while the police were trying to get him under control.

[mrdemocrat78]

67. See, I don't buy that

What the hell does Kerry think the kid was yelling "ouch" and "please don't tase me" for?

And this guy wanted to be president? Granted he would have been better than bush, but please. Does that sound presidential?

[ShortnFiery]

71. John Kerry is a highly intelligent man and a war hero, but not as pro-active in this situation as I

would have liked. But hell, nobody's perfect.

However, what's truly destroying our country, IMO, is a combination of the Corporate Media working in consort with the corporations comprising The Military Industrial Complex.

The whorish 5th column M$M seemingly DISTORTS raw data to absurdity ... and always spins politics to favor large mega-corporations and the CEOs who own them.

We desperately need a free press. :(

Let's not forget who THE REAL ENEMY is second to The Right Wing nut cases?

[The Count]

103. "Not as proactive"? what an euphemism for "My Pet Goat"!

[cui bono]

98. He already made his statement of complicity when he just stood on that stage

and did nothing.

Of all the people in the senate he is one I would have expected more from. That was beyond pathetic, just standing there while they dragged that kid away. He should have been shouting at the top of his lungs for them to leave him alone. He should have run down there to stop those wannabe police from going after that kid. He's supposed to be protecting our rights, not watching them erode.

[ProfessorPlum]

70. thanks for posting this

and shame on all of you who think the security acted appropriately. That boy did nothing wrong, and "acting like an asshole" is not a crime, and it certainly doesn't deserve the infliction of pain at the hand of little fascist pigs. I wish people in this country could come up with better strategies than force and arrests and abuse all of the time. Cretins.

[bos1]

73. I think the worst part is the crowd APPLAUDING as he is led away

when all he was doing was asking inconvenient questions in a loudmouth way.

[ProfessorPlum]

76. I agree - no one should ever be treated this way

cops - rent-a-cops, real police, and the military - need to be trained in more gentle ways of dealing with people, no matter how "rude" they are. christ. At least in the '60s people were scandalized by brute displays of force and inflicted pain.

[Cookie wookie]

137. I agree that was disturbing. That they felt it was worthy of

applause for someone who was taking too long at the mike to be dragged out by aggressive police. Those are some brainwashed kids. I hope after hearing his screams they might have had a moment's pause where they asked themselves if they weren't just a little concerned about trying to make a point at that microphone -- that they better be "good, polite kids" and not hog the mike or else they could be killed, since after all, tasers can kill.

That was so horrible, I don't know if I can sleep tonight.

[subsuelo]

80. I say fuck the cops in this situation

whether or not you agree with his questions he's just a kid give him the time to make his point and let it rest. There was no disturbance occurring until AFTER the cops started getting aggressive.

The point is - there was absolutely no reason for the cops to get aggressive in the first place.

[sasquatch]

84. Find the officers names and post their home addresses

[Liir]

88. Reminds me...

Of the time that one middle eastern student got tasered repeatedly on campus by rentacops. Though this may well be different. Still needs some time for the dust to settle and the news to clear out the truth of what happened.

[cui bono]

89. Wow. only 10 comments in and I can't believe what you people are saying!

Do you guys have any idea what civil rights are?

WTF???

You guys are actually saying this guy deserved it? That he should just behave?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

Do you not know what this country is founded on? Are you so used to BushCo that you accept that you should just do what authority wants or else you'll be unduly punished?

How sad this thread is, not because of the unfair treatment this student got, but because of the attitude of people on a board that touts itself as progressive.

Man.

[sasquatch]

95. I concur.

[RestoreGore]

110. Yes, by their logic Patrick Henry would have been tasered when he screamed

"Give me liberty or give me death!"

Slippery slope we are on. Just shut up and follow the "rules"... Goosesteppers of the world unite.

[cui bono]

112. Frightening indeed. It really seemed like I was reading that "other" board.

.

[Lorien]

125. Amen. Seven years of BushCo and now it seems the enemy is us.

The kid acted like any passionate 21 year old. Hell, if there's a draft his ass will be on the line-OF COURSE he should be pissed, scared, and wanting answers. I don't think he was grandstanding, I think he was feeling what so many of us are feeling; like nothing we do matters, like our efforts are in vain, like we have no representation in Washington. I wanted to know the answers to his questions too. He said he had three questions total, and at the end of the third he was dragged away. Now there's no way they would have allowed him more than one-so the only way to spit out three is in what amounts to one long tirade. Not the best presentation, but assuming that he REALLY wanted answers to those questions, how else could he have gotten them all out there?

Freedom of speech...so only slick, polished, "well behaved" Americans are allowed it now? Geez.

[sss1977]

100. *Blink* What the hell?

I love this site, but sometimes I start to wonder if I can't even call this place home. How could anyone with over a thousand posts be blaming the student in this for not being smart enough to not resist arrest? What the hell? Since when is the purpose of life to not resist and not get hurt? Is that your definition of intelligence? Cops can't just go around throwing people to the ground, and then arresting them for resisting a police officer when they fight back. That's very similar to another recent discussion where people actually thought you give a police officer probable cause to search your person without cause, when you deny it to him. Saying no does not itself make you guilty of a crime. Fighting back does not itself make you guilty of a crime.

You know what the true crime is here that I haven't seen a single person mention? Why are the people in that audience relieved of all responsibility? They bore witness to something and just watched. That's exactly one of our main problems right now. We don't unite spontaneously in the face of something we are against. I guarantee there were more people than cops in that auditorium who felt the cops were in the wrong. All it takes is one person to stand up and express their disagreement for others to do the same. Yes Kerry should have been more commanding of the situation and more clearly expressed his desire to let the man go so he could answer his questions. But we can't count on others to do what's right. We can only count on ourselves.

Do you really want to be a person who watches things happen, only to write your disagreement with it later? Imagine how powerful a message it would have sent if instead of this video capturing a student being wrongly manhandled, it would have shown a crowd standing up for our rights and liberties and non-violently forcing the cops to stand down. Now that would be something to see on Youtube...

[cui bono]

139. Well said. Except there's not many on here who have disagreement to write!

I can't believe it. Between this and the stupid Circuit City posts I'm really sickened.

Oh, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

I hope you stick around, we need voices like yours here, as you can see.

[The Count]

102. Kerry's My Pet Goat moment and the operatives who love torture like Bushco

if it serves THEIR guy...
Sorry, I was out to lunch for that story - until now - when I watched the tape (posted in DEFENSE of Kerry). The only difference between Kerry and Bush is - that for all we know, Kerry didn't derive pleasure from watching torture. But like Bush, he certainly didn't give a shit.
And yeah, kudos to the student for asking about the concession in 2004. I bet he voted for him too. All of you cheering the fascists - you're no different than the freepers - you just mindlessly stick for another guy. You have the same ethics - or lack of them.
There is a point where your political little idol ends and you start. You are now torture supporters yourselves. Congratulations!

[mogster]

127. What was the student's political affiliation?

I wonder?

[Courtesy Flush]

131. Judging by his statements

He's probably a democrat. He was bothered that Kerry conceded the election, and he called for Bush's empeachment. I think that's the main reason he was assaulted.

But then, a lot of Republicans are starting to feel that way these days.

[Progressive Friend]

147. Imagine what people would be saying if this video was from...

Imagine what people would be saying if this video was from any country that has a government that Washington doesn't like. There would be a lot of talk about "totalitarianism". Yet when it happens in the "free, open and democratic USA," many brainwashed Americans just dismiss this as being all the dissident's fault that he was brutalized.