Rachel Maddow compares & contrasts GOP treatment of ACORN & BP

[ProfessorPlum]

Run time: 10:57 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lpd9qdSz4   Posted on YouTube: June 11, 2010 By YouTube Member: StartLoving3 Views on YouTube: 15   Posted on DU: June 11, 2010 By DU Member: ProfessorPlum Views on DU: 3005

 
Amazing journalism

[ProfessorPlum]

1. sorry, here's part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI0VXBIw6mg&feature=channel

[Turborama]

15. K&R & Thanks for posting part 2 with its very worrisome statistic.

Republicans are the scum of the earth and if the hell they believe in really exists their actions during their time on earth is buying them a one way ticket to it.

[defendandprotect]

2. Watched Rachel last night -- great contrasts -- as always terrific Rachel!

[classof56]

3. Amazing indeed.

Rachel deserves a Peabody for this and many, many other of her reports. She is a truly incredible journalist. Long may she wave!

Thanks for posting!

[huxley05]

11. rachel

in all due respect, i think it's a bit of a stretch comparing acorn to BP. coming from chicago, i can attest to the political ambitions of acorn. they were a non-profit organization using federal funds to support their political ambitions (at least they were in chicago; i can't speak for anywhere else). yes, they were helping a lot of people. however, i don't think the ends should always justify the means.

on the other hand, BP is an international corporation. they are driven by stocks, profits, competition, and delivering a product. they rely on access to natural resources, as well as a little help from politicians to accomplish these goals. that being said, nothing excuses them from not preventing this disaster.

i think we should tread lightly on a lot of these topics because both our side and the republicans are equally involved in this mess. i know the republicans have a lot of ties to oil, but we can't deny the fact that BP has contributed to both republican and democratic campaigns (even the president's). let's choose our battles wisely, and try not to be overly polarized over every newsworthy event.

in summary, acorn should have been a little less political and more devoted to helping people. BP should be punished for incompetence. the government should quit pointing fingers and work together to get this environmental disaster contained, and ensure that it cannot happen again.

[ProfessorPlum]

22. welcome to DU

pointing out that ACORN got a pittance in federal money and helped poor people (including helping them to register to vote - that didn't used to carry a death penalty) while contrasting that to a multinational corporation that gets thousands of times more more tax money (all the while poisoning us, but enriching a small group of already rich people) seems like exactly the kind of journalism that is desperately needed.

Your call to - heavens forfend! - not bitch about BP just because half of the Democratic party (like ALL of the GOP) are corrupt seems . . . well, misguided at best.

[spicegal]

32. Yep, and how much does BP spend on political campaigns, particularly Republicans?? I guarantee it's

one heck of a lot. ACORN was small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. The GOP went on a major witch hunt because they did voter registration drives, mostly among the poor folks, who more often than not vote for Democrats. It's really that simple. Contrast that with the major destruction caused by corporate malfeasance-the bankers, and now BP. What BP did was at the least criminally negligent, resulting in human fatalities and the destruction of the environment in the Gulf.

[huxley05]

37. good points, but...

i agree with you on all accounts. i'm arguing that i think it's silly to compare acorn to BP. it's apples and oranges. i'm not saying one was guilty and the other wasn't. i'm saying both are/were corrupt.

obviously, BP's negligence led to a huge environmental disaster. it is a horrible misfortune. there should be consequences for their actions. however, there doesn't seem to be anybody in the federal government that wants to deal with it. i think the big reason that nobody in the GOP or democratic party has taken action is that these corporations have contributed a lot to both parties. i also think with this being a mid-term election year, they are thinking about the repurcussions for taking action. even obama seems reluctant to take action.

i agree there was a huge, overstated GOP reaction to acorn's actions. however, would you say there's been an appropriate federal government response to BP's actions? have the president, the GOP, and the democrats shown much concern for fixing this problem other than pointing fingers? BP was wrong, but i think it's almost just as criminal in this case how aloof our government has been in this disaster (when i say government, i mean both sides of the aisle).

[Renegades of Funk]

4. Fox lied

ACORN died. BP spills...drill baby drill???? GOP hypocrisy.

[activa8tr]

6. That pretty much sums it up here in the USA!

This has been going on in news coverage since Bill Clinton and his little Oval Office trist.

[Overseas]

5. K&R. //nt

[Uncle Joe]

7. Outstanding juxtaposition, by Rachel.

Thanks for the thread, ProfessorPlum.:thumbsup:

[fascisthunter]

8. Republicans are the most disgusting Liars I have ever seen

shutting down ACORN was an attack on our social system and an attack directly on the poor. If one ever wonders if the GOP hates and despises those who for whatever reason are poor, well wonder no more. They are a bunch of sociopaths who should be locked up for good. I'm sick and tired of people making excuses for liars and cheats. THIS IS NOT POLITICS!!! This is an attack on our commons, our social system, and our communities!

These rich pigs will never have to live with poverty as they sip their cocktails on their verandas... these people make me sick!

[huxley05]

13. fascisthunter

sir, i live in chicago. acorn was not using their federal money to do what they said they were doing. they were helping a lot of people. however, when they started pushing a political agenda with federal money, they were breaking the law. i don't know if it was like this everywhere else; i'm just going by what i have seen. chicago is quite corrupt anyway; they may have been simply helping people everywhere else.

also, try to keep your emotions under control. once you lose your temper, you have lost the argument. people simply quit listening when they get yelled at. while i agree with what you are arguing for, we lose a lot of credibility when we start rattling off dialog like this.

let's show everybody that we are the more civilized party. let's show them that we are the better persons. let's quit attacking each other and press our politicians for solutions. or better yet, let's start talking about solutions ourselves instead of making ourselves victims. we aren't always going to have a president from our party in the white house. we aren't always going to have a majority in the senate. we need to accept that, move beyond, and work so that we can help people regardless of who our lawmakers are.

if it sickens you, go out and try to make it better. don't fight with people you can't reason with; accept that they will always be there and do your part to make a difference.

[sabrina 1]

19. Breaking the law? Lol, welcome

Well, let's start with some proof of this law-breaking you speak of. Like an indictment, or even a charge eg. I can produce evidence that no laws, other than in the wild imaginations of the Faux Noose brigade and the mentally unstable, law-breaker, Pimp 'impersonator' James O'Keefe, were ever broken by ACORN.

In the spirit of the civility you requested, I will check back later to see this proof of law-breaking.

[huxley05]

21. ok, here it is

if you like, i can look through more newspapers and journals. but this is a pretty good sampling. i concur that there have been no charges. what i'm talking about is acorn's involvement with project vote and other activities (sub-prime/high risk loans to people with poor credit) that, while technically legal, are highly questionable.

01. ProjectVote/Acorn attempt to sue a whistleblower from their own ranks (unsuccessfully):
http://www.cir-usa.org/releases/102.html

02. acorn involvement with the US census bureau (what does that have to do with their mission?); this has very high potential for fraudulent activity (boosting numbers in some select areas, while under-reporting in others). i'm not making accusations, i'm simply saying that this is not something that acorn was meant to do, either:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/files/documents/2009/Census_ACORN_Documents.pdf

03. employees of Acorn plead guilty in fake voter scheme:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003982533_acorn30m.html?syndication=rss

04. corrupt history of Acorn and it's political involvement:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_wsj-acorn_squash.htm

05. if you have the time, read Organizing Urban America, by Heidi Swarts (a professor at rutgers). she is actually very much in favor of acorn, and proudly asserts the methods their organized protesters will resort to invading private businesses, bank owners' homes, or even pour protesters into bank lobbies to scare off customers to force the lowering of credit standards to poor and minority customers.

06. also, look at what acorn did for the public schools in new york. i really don't feel like looking up more, but please look at the track record of the schools they have built and run as a part of the public school system.

look, i don't want to turn this thing into a spitting contest or something else to divide us. not everything that we come up with is great, just as not everything that the right comes up with is wrong. acorn was going beyond what they were founded to do. they didn't get taken apart by the government, they lost federal funding. i agree with you that it was overplayed by the conservatives, but i will not be convinced that acorn was a completely benign, charitable organization.

also, i still think it is silly to compare acorn to BP.

[ProfessorPlum]

23. this old nonsense again?

look, basically the upshot of all of those "scandals" is that some ACORN employees tried to defraud ACORN, and got caught and fired.

[kitfalbo]

24. heh

BP is much worse, involved with basically directly bribing both as a company and an industry elected officials. They also have their still close to 10 billion in contracts much more than they spent to buy people.

[sabrina 1]

26. First, the rightwing generated lies about 'voter fraud'

dredged up right before the election and run with by our increasingly worthless media, have all been completely debunked. See Bradblog for some indepth reporting on those lies.

Employees getting in trouble with the law have nothing to do with a business or organization they may work for. Every murderer, rapist, thief, con artist etc. works for someone. I could find criminals who once worked for some of the biggest and most well-known organizations, like McDonald's eg, but in no way does anyone blame McDonald's for the crimes of some of their employees. ACORN has a membership of over 400,000 families. It would be unusual if, throughout the years, a few of their members and/or employees didn't commit a crime. Do you blame McDonald's if one of their employees commits a crime?

Nearly every story accusing ACORN of crimes, has been thoroughly debunked by people who have taken the time to check into them.

As for your last paragraph, I will check out this allegation, but since I have many rightwing, Fox-viewing, Limbaugh-cultist adversaries that I argue with on a regular basis, there is hardly any lie told about ACORN that they have not produced to 'prove' how 'crooked' they are. Time after time, each one has fallen apart. I can't imagine they missed any but I'll check it out.

ACORN has done more for poor people and minorities than most other organizations combined. I know many wonderful people who would never have had a chance in this world, had it not been for ACORN. They ARE tough, street-fighter tough at times and have been under assault by rabid rightwing bigots since their inception.

Their record, compared to most other large Corporations in this country is practically pristine. BP has killed people, here and in other countries, eg. Blackwater is a murderous organization, yet is still working for this government. Halliburton, KB&R, I won't go on, but the list is long of criminal Corporations who are still being funded by this government. And not one of them have done much good for anyone other than their own bank accounts.

I'll take ACORN any day over BP, Blackwater, Halliburton et al and it's interesting that Fox et al have no problem with these fraudulent, murderous, corrupt organizations, but they do have a problem with an Org. that actually does so much good for the poor.

[Enthusiast]

30. What a terrific response!

That would have taxed my widdle mind. Thanks for your efforts.

[sabrina 1]

39. Lol, well, as I said, I've heard every allegation

against ACORN from my rightwing 'friends' that they could dig up. And no one works harder than rightwing bigots to prove that organizations like ACORN who work to help poor people and minorities vote and buy their own home, are 'corrupt'. So far they have come up with nothing other than allegations.

I have to say this one is a bit more creative though. Maybe the old talking points have been tossed out in favor of a more 'rational' approach since the conviction of O'Keefe more or less destroyed their gleeful celebrations re his now thoroughly debunked and discredited videos.

Not certain, but I'd rather be sure than sorry as buried in this new and improved 'rational approach' to discredit ACORN are the same old allegations.

Just mention ACORN within miles of a rightwing Fox/Limbaugh fan and they will come running like a moth to a flame waving around those allegations even though most all of them were completely discredited.

So, I'll go with my instincts on this one, until proven otherwise lol!

[huxley05]

36. acorn

i agree with you concerning the good they have done. i am not disputing that. i was simply stating that their actions beyond directly helping the poor and minorities in their communities with federal funding was wrong.

also, my argument was never that BP was less evil or corrupt than acorn. i was expressing my opinion that it is apples to oranges comparing acorn to an international corporation. i'm sure BP is corrupt. lots of corporations are.

we all have the same goals here. i simply refuse to admit that the ends always justify the means.

it's naive and dangerous to think that corruption is limited only to one party. it's important to keep a sense of objectivity and less subjectivity when looking at a lot of these issues. if not we waste a lot of time arguing over the smallest, irrelevant details instead of working together trying to solve them. i suppose i'm a little guilty of that because i'm arguing over the "alleged" corruption of an organization that doesn't even exist anymore. ha ha. anyway, you all are great. keep fighting the good fight.

[sabrina 1]

38. None of their actions outside of helping the poor

have been legally wrong. They have fought valiantly for the poor against some of the best funded rightwing orgs in this country, with millions spent on demonizing them, yet not once has there been a single legal conviction of what you are claiming.

As for them 'not existing anymore'. You are wrong about that also. They will continue and with a lot more support now that most of us saw up close how far the bigoted rightwing is willing to go to prevent minorities from getting ahead in this country. Your 'ha ha' is a bit premature.

The shame is that both parties don't care about the American people period, and particularly the poor. The fact that ACORN made sure banks abided by the laws written to prevent discrimination against minorities is what was always behind the attacks on them. Bigotry is alive and well in this country and that is what ACORN, for their advocacy of the poor and minorities, were targeted for.

If I were you I would not want to be a part of that bigoted effort. As I said, with a 40 year history of helping people, no record of crimes coming even close to most of the Corps funded by this government, they can be very proud of their work.

Your anti-ACORN approach is a little different than the usual, I'll give you credit for that.

[axollot]

35. Exactly. If they were breaking the law, where was the trial?

Arent "bills of attainder" against the law too?

cheers
Sandy

[Enthusiast]

28. Rachel is responding to the

smear campaign against ACORN instituted by Fox News and the Republican Party. She is contrasting the GOP's manufactured outrage over false allegations about ACORN and the GOP's lack of outrage over BP's careless unprecedented environmental degradation. The GOP was far more outraged over ACORN. This in itself is cause for outrage.

[trumad]

29. sniff

[rasputin1952]

33. That is not necessarily true...

where can you show that Federal money was used for what you claim? It is very plausible that ACORN used other funds to take a "political" stand on some issues. Unless each account is separate, and can be shown to be used for specific activities there is no way to track where the money is spent. Supporting voter registration is not a partisan political activity, (although R's know that more people register as D's or I's than as R's). What about the Federal money used by GOP front groups to push agendas that are decidedly conservative? Virtually anything Dick Armey has fingerprints on is Federally sponsored to an extent and goes far beyond what ACORN was accused of.

Cash is fungible, generally it goes into a General Fund, and it is difficult to separate precisely where every dollar goes, the GOP is well aware of this and explains why they dump so much cash into their front groups; like the voter registration group that threw thousands of Democratic Registration cards into a dumpster in CA.

Do you believe that religious institutions that wade into the political spectrum should lose their tax exempt status? There are hundreds, if not thousands of such entities that espouse political views disguised as religious tenets around the country, Many of these receive funding after the bush administration pushed their absurd gusher of cash into the "Faith Based Initiative". Just how much of that money went to relieve the burdens of the poor?I saw a lot of work on upgrading buildings and other improvements as opposed to places where the homeless could find a place to sleep out of the elements or get a quick meal.

ACORN did a lot of good, they were targeted because they were seen as a threat, I see much more of a threat to the nation from conservative churches, synagogues and mosques than I ever did form ACORN.

[axollot]

34. Do you think BP does not push a political agenda in this country? n/t

[sabrina 1]

17. The Republicans didn't shut down ACORN alone.

A majority of Democrats in Congress voted to defund them led by Issa without even waiting for an investigation of the Pimp Tapes, which later were completely debunked, shamefully reacting to Fox News, Karl Rove and every rightwing nutcase blathering on the air.

Only 75 Democrats refused to support that bill. Shame on Democrats for their participation in that particularly vile witch hunt which was rife with racism as every O'Keefe stunt usually is.

Even after ACORN was exonerated in at least three separate investigations, and after James O'Keefe was arrested for yet another illegal act and a court ruled that Congress had violated the Constitution when it singled out ACORN and voted to defund it, not one Democrat apologized for their shameful vote.

Just keeping the record straight.

[SILVER__FOX52]

9. The partisanship/ignorance of the Republicans is......

nothing short of STUNNING. They're literally an embarrassment to the Country.

[Bucky]

10. I'll send money to whoever runs on this issue

[unpossibles]

12. thanks, Rachel

She's one of the very few TV news personalities I can stand. Great work.

[sabrina 1]

14. Good for her for making that point.

Said the exact same thing yesterday.

[abq e streeter]

16. Re: Blaming only the GOP

The house and senate passed, and President Obama signed, the defund ACORN bill....those are probably the most depressing words in that whole segment ....I expect the republicans to act like the brazen liars and hypocrites they are. I somehow still find myself stunned at what spineless ( at best; gleefully complicit at worst) enablers the Democrats in Washington are. This Republican bill obviously could not have passed without Democratic support, and President Obama could have bravely vetoed it too, but of course, did not.


So nice to see successful bi-partisanship for once...
:sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

31. I think this demonstrates how

effective this smear ACORN campaign by the GOP was. The President and Democratic legislators are as vulnerable to propaganda and misinformation as anyone.

The GOP had an objective. That was to destroy ACORN's ability to register minority and low income Americans that predominately vote Democrat. They succeeded beyond their greatest hope.

[papadog]

18. Obama signed the bill to defund ACORN

The reason Acorn is gone is because the Dems, including Obama abandoned them. Everytime th Republicans squeal the dems apologize and side with them. You never see Reps do that, they dig in thier heels and let it blow over. I need a new party. I can't see myself voting democrat anymore and I'd never vote republican so I guess i'll just drop out. If the Democrats are going to do whatever the Republicans want what the use in voting?

[abq e streeter]

20. Welcome, and it's sad to have agreed with you

Several months ago, I suggested that the Democratic Party save itself some time and effort by just recording an all-purpose apology to replay any time any republican or media pundit; Fox or otherwise, demands one.

[Stumbler]

25. While I haven't even watched it yet, I'll rec Rachel for speaking truth to power once again

If only our supposedly "liberal media" had the gravitas Rachel has while pointing out the obvious, our nation's voting population might actually deserve the self-gratifying-ego they love to flaunt so much...

(Edited for terrible, terrible grammar, even this late at night)

[Joey Kidd]

27. K&R

Amazing journalism indeed ! I love Rachel.:)