MSNBC Hardball w/ CHRIS MATTHEWS - Oct. 7, 2009. Congessman Dennis Kucinich and Congressman Mac Thornberry interviewed.
MATTHEWS: Let's start tonight with the war in Afghanistan - eight years on. Let's take a look at what Walter Cronkite famously said about the Vietnam war in 1968. Let's listen.
CRONKITE (Video): For it seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate.
MATTHEWS: Congressman Dennis Kucinich is an Ohio Democrat who thinks we should get out of Afghanistan and now, and Republican Congressman Mac Thornberry of Texas says we need to send in more troops. Let's get to the issue right now with both of you. Congressman Kucinich, you first. Are we losing the war in Afghanistan?
KUCINICH: We should've never have been there. We've got to get beyond equations of win or lose. We can't win in a situation where there is a weak central government, widespread fraud, where occupations fuel insurgency, where there's drugs involved. This is a nightmare. We need to get our troops out of there, and get them out of there as fast as we can.
MATTHEWS: But I want an answer. Are we losing? The general says our mission is failing. Do you agree with him? Gen. McChrystal?
KUCINICH: Well, again, I don't think we should have ever gone in or stayed in there to begin with. So, I don't even... My level of analysis on this, Chris, is it goes beyond winning or losing. We win by leaving.
- snip -
MATTHEWS: If you get your way, if we pull out of Afghanistan quickly, what will be the consequences of that decision?
KUCINICH: Well, I think immediately... we don't just pull out without consulting with nations in the region, and we have to make sure we have an ongoing observation of what is going on in that region. But I think the immediate consequence is that the United States will be spared the loss of more troops, is that we won't see the U.S. is in a position where during our occupation the production of opium goes up in the country. I think that we'll start to be in a position of stabilizing our situation in other parts of the world. I think we'll be in a stronger position to play a hand with Iran. I think we're destabilizing our power by being in Afghanistan, and I think we should get out of there and get out of Iraq as well.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe if we pull out of Afghanistan that Taliban will defeat the central government of Karzai?
KUCINICH: I think that the central government of Karzai, right now, is so corrupt and so weak that, if we stay in there, we can't prop it up. It's despised by the people of Afghanistan. So whoever takes over, you know, they're going to have a difficult time being able to control Afghanistan, until, number one, they get control of the drug situation, which is really, the warlords and the drug lords have taken over much of Afghanistan. So whoever takes over that central government, they're going to have a tough time holding on. You're looking at controlled chaos for quite a few years.
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