TYT Supreme Court: Should 550 lb. Kid Get Taken Away From His Mom?

[ihavenobias]

Run time: 04:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwvS0YhS1jo   Posted on YouTube: June 27, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 28, 2009 By DU Member: ihavenobias Views on DU: 2475

 
Summary: The "TYT Supreme Court" rules on the case of a SC mom who has been charged with neglect because her 14 year old boy weights 550lbs. The key question is if the government should get involved, and if so, how.

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[OhioChick]

1. K&R n/t

[Seldona]

2. At 550 pounds I think it is safe to say she has no control over her son.

If she did, he wouldn't be 550. I mean we are past the point of medical intervention at 550 at 14 imo.

Than she admits to feeding fast food to him? That would have done it right there for me. This isn't about this woman. It's about a latch-key kid who is about to die. Period.

[pleah]

3. K&R I know a lot of parents who do not know how to say NO to their children. n/t

[MindMatter]

4. Obesity isn't a disease. It is a choice.

It is really simple. You eat 1800 calories a day, you don't get fat. You eat 3000 calories a day, you get fat. And this kid is eating 6000 calories a day.

This is Darwin at work. The kid will be dead by age 30.

I attended a graduation ceremony a couple of weeks ago. After about 10 minutes of "the walk", it became clear to me that the very large majority of girls were way beyond the level we used to cal morbidly obese. I starting keeping track of the ones that were so far they couldn't walk with a normal stride and had to do more of a duck waddle to get their diplomas. I swear it was 80% of the girls that were well over 250#. Strangely the boys weren't particularly fat, at least compared to the girls.

I went back to look at my HS yearbook just to make sure my recollection was accurate. Out of an entire class of about 400, there were only a couple of girls that big (this was in the early '70s). There were 3 or 4 fat boys in that range. There were a lot of boys who topped 200#, but many of them were lifting weights for football or wrestling.

We talk a lot about the evils and deficiencies of our health care system, and most of that is well justified. But even with the best, most efficient health care system in the world, these fatasses are going to bankrupt us, mainly because obesity doesn't kill them quickly enough. Before they die of heart attacks in the 40s and 50s they will be sucking down trillions of dollars of health care money dealing with diabetes and other chronic problems that are causes by carrying around the equivalent of 40 bags of potatos strapped to their bodies.

Maybe the kid should have bariatric surgery.

[Chemisse]

6. Did you ever wonder why?

Why one kid could get to 550 pounds while another stays skinny and wiry? Sure it's mostly a matter of calories in exceeds calories expended. But why do some people eat so much? Hopefully we are getting close to finding this out. Many, many people are eating themselves into lives of misery and simply cannot stop. It's not because they are pigs or hedonists; it's because they are receiving a nearly overwhelmingly strong biological signal that says EAT!

Certainly the mother in this case has the power to put a stop to it. It's not like the kid is going to be agile enough to sneak out to find food.

But blaming fat people for their problems, while technically accurate, shows either ignorance or lack of compassion.

[MindMatter]

9. Because they can.

Why do people burn gasoline? Because they can.

Our whole food system from production to marketing is about stuffing people full of calories because that is the most profitable.

We are ALL genetically programmed to consume the calories when they are available to us. That is basic survival instinct that was necessary through the 199,970 years of the first 200,000 years as a species. Only in the last 30 years or so have we had a vast surplus of calories available to us. We don't need any research to know WHY people eat. It is in EVERYBODY'S genes.

The question is why some people are able to intellectualize beyond the primal instincts and control their intake. That is a skill, just like anything else. Some people develop the skill. Others don't care enough to do that.

I'm not saying it is easy. I fight my weight every day of my life. You have to go out of your way to find healthy foods and you have to push away from the food trough from time to time. But it can be done.

By the time this generation of piglets gets well into adulthood, we will be speaking of "Global fattening" in the same way we speak of "global warming" today. Maybe one day we will have a cap-and-trade system covering junk calories.

[elleng]

25. IMPORTANT:

How the Food Makers Captured Our Brains

'The food industry has combined and created foods in a way that taps into our brain circuitry and stimulates our desire for more.

When it comes to stimulating our brains, Dr. Kessler noted, individual ingredients aren’t particularly potent. But by combining fats, sugar and salt in innumerable ways, food makers have essentially tapped into the brain’s reward system, creating a feedback loop that stimulates our desire to eat and leaves us wanting more and more even when we’re full.

Dr. Kessler isn’t convinced that food makers fully understand the neuroscience of the forces they have unleashed, but food companies certainly understand human behavior, taste preferences and desire. In fact, he offers descriptions of how restaurants and food makers manipulate ingredients to reach the aptly named “bliss point.” Foods that contain too little or too much sugar, fat or salt are either bland or overwhelming. But food scientists work hard to reach the precise point at which we derive the greatest pleasure from fat, sugar and salt.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/health/23well.html?_r...

[elleng]

11. What and why?

Obesity is most commonly caused by a combination of excessive dietary calories, lack of physical activity, and genetic susceptibility, though a limited number of cases are due solely to genetics, medical reasons, or psychiatric illness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity

More:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/marmar/12908

[MindMatter]

12. The medical explanation applis to maybe 1% of the obese

The rest are just eating too much.

If a person has diseased kidneys, their tissues will carry lots more water than normal. That's a disease. If a person eats too many cheeseburgers and too many tubes of Pringles, that's a choice, not a disease.

The latter is the 99% case.

[ihavenobias]

13. Yes and no.

There are physiological changes that take place when someone over-consumes calories for a number of years that rewire the brain and change hormone levels or the response to various hormones (google leptin and obesity for example) and neurotransmitters.

That's an enormous reason why people that are overweight/obese as kids are far more likely to be overweight/obese adults, beyond just the learned behavior factor. At any rate, the bottom line is that people should do what they can to stay at a reasonable weight (or more importantly, bodyfat percentage) *within the constraints of their specific physiology* by focusing on food and exercise quality and quantity.

Signed,

A former fat kid

[elleng]

15. Thanks, 'bias.

I think THIS is the story we should focus on. Agree??? And congrats.

How the Food Makers Captured Our Brains

'The food industry has combined and created foods in a way that taps into our brain circuitry and stimulates our desire for more.

When it comes to stimulating our brains, Dr. Kessler noted, individual ingredients aren’t particularly potent. But by combining fats, sugar and salt in innumerable ways, food makers have essentially tapped into the brain’s reward system, creating a feedback loop that stimulates our desire to eat and leaves us wanting more and more even when we’re full.

Dr. Kessler isn’t convinced that food makers fully understand the neuroscience of the forces they have unleashed, but food companies certainly understand human behavior, taste preferences and desire. In fact, he offers descriptions of how restaurants and food makers manipulate ingredients to reach the aptly named “bliss point.” Foods that contain too little or too much sugar, fat or salt are either bland or overwhelming. But food scientists work hard to reach the precise point at which we derive the greatest pleasure from fat, sugar and salt.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/health/23well.html?_r=2&em

[OmahaGTP]

14. Would you apply the same logic to alcoholism?

Just curious, as I do.

[elleng]

16. Ain't no 'logic' there; alcoholism is a disease.

'Since 1956, the American Medical Association has recognized and defined alcohol addiction as a primary disease, not a secondary symptom of an underlying psychological or medical illness. Since then, this definition has been extended to define all chemical addictions as "chronic, progressive diseases characterized by significant impairment that is directly associated with persistent and excessive use of psychoactive substances. Impairment may involve physiological, psychological, or social dysfunction."

Research into the neurochemical basis of addiction points to the dysfunction of one or more of six major neurotransmitter types as being the basis of the symptoms of addiction, withdrawal, and drug cravings. Studies have shown strong genetic predisposition to some types of chemical dependency regardless of social environment.'


http://www.lakesidemilam.com/DiseaseOfAddictionSynopsis.htm

[MindMatter]

17. Absolutely

And to the great majority of people diagnosed as ADD and a substantial number flying the autism flag.

Most of us enjoy a drink, and it is only our ethic of personal responsibility that separates us from the town trunk. If there is any physiological tendency here, it is far less important than the responsibility factor for almost all of us.

Pretty soon, we're going to be hearing that Governor Sanford was actually suffering from ALD, the newly minted "disease" of Acute Libido Deficiency.

People will make excuses for anything, the the medical industry is more than happy to go along with that if it gives them an opportunity to sell doctor visits and profitable drugs.

[ihavenobias]

18. Again, yes and no

I generally have little patience for someone pigging out on fast food and claiming they can't lose weight because of their genes. But this only describes one subset of the overweight/obese. Instead of going with generic principles and opinions, I prefer to look at the research on obesity and hunger. In doing this I've seen quite clearly that losing weight and keeping it off involves far more than just vague notions of willpower. For example:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2430504

Maintenance of weight loss is often unsuccessful because of metabolic adaptations that conserve energy. Studies in rodents suggest that a reduction in leptin level during weight loss signals to the brain to increase feeding and decrease energy expenditure. In this issue of the JCI, Rosenbaum et al. examined this concept in obese patients who lost weight and were maintained at 10% below their initial weight (see the related article beginning on page 2583). Brain activity responses to visual food stimuli were visualized using functional MRI.

Leptin levels fell during weight loss and increased brain activity in areas involved in emotional, cognitive, and sensory control of food intake. Restoration of leptin levels maintained weight loss and reversed the changes in brain activity. Thus, leptin is a critical factor linking reduced energy stores to eating behavior. Potentially, leptin therapy could sustain weight loss by overriding the tendency toward energy conservation.

[MindMatter]

19. Our genes did not change in the past 30 years

I am not arguing that it is a simple linear situation -- eat exactly this many calories and the body will reacy this exact way. I agree there are some complexities, but these are second order infinitesimals. The main thing is that people are eating WAY too many calories.

I know it is hard. Everywhere we go, we are presented with junk calories, and it is hard to select foods that are nuitritional without excess calories, especially if you aren't in a situation to prepare all the meals at home. Most people I know are working harder today than a generation ago, just to get by. That is certainly a factor that has contributed to the problem. If you are on the run all the time, it is hard to do anything but get a lot of junk food.

And I have a great suspicion that all the stuff that the big corporate farms (I'm being redundant, because there is almost no other kind of farm now)are shooting into the animals is getting into our systems and messing up how we process food. A steady diet of steroids and antibiotics is probably not the healthiest way to live.

Is it harder to maintain a reasonable weight than 25 years ago. Yes, probably so. I think we would have common ground on that point.

[ihavenobias]

20. Yes, there is marketing, increased portion sizes and insane availability

Oh, and cheap cost with great taste. While our genes may not have changed, the quality of the food has changed along with the quantity. As EllenG's comment explained, the food of today is (in a sense) like crack compared to the cocaine we had.

Refined carbs, high fructose corn syrup, etc. The sad thing is, a lot of people think eating a bagel is "healthy" because it's low in fat, despite the fact that the average bagel is just a huge dose of refined carbs with little to no fiber. Same thing with many of the "healthy" cereals. A lot of money is spent to come up with deceptive buzz phrases and crazes, like "whole grain". I swear I saw that on a box of TRIX cereal.

Oh, and back to bagels for a second. The other night I saw frozen product which was a tube shaped bagel filled with cinnamon cream cheese something or other. That doesn't sound healthy *to me*, but I could see a less informed person being suckered by the Sensible Solutions label it had pointing out the calcium content and some other relatively irrelevant factoid about this slickly packaged junk food.

I know plenty of otherwise intelligent people who *think* they're eating healthy when they're really not. I know healthy is a generic term, but let's assume we agree on what that generally means for purposes of this discussion. The point is that not all of them are fat, but I wonder how many more of them would be if they had (for example) been overweight as a kid, which again changes brain wiring and how various hunger related hormones and neurotransmitters work, often for life.

PS---Keep in mind I also get mad at obese people who are blatantly not even trying to eat healthy and exercise while blaming it all on their genes. Because while it's true they may not naturally burn as many calories or feel as full after a certain amount of calories due to physiological issues, it's also true that there is no gene that causes them to buy KFC and chips.

[MindMatter]

21. Agreed 100%

[Wizard777]

5. So what if the kid doesn't lose weight in Foster Care?

Should his CPS Case Worker and Foster Parents be jailed? CPS and foster care isn't all it's cracked to be. It not the salvation of children many think it is. There are many CPS horror stories out there. Murder, rape, and medical experimentations just to name a few. What will most likely happen is that CPS will put the kid in Foster Care. The Foster Parents will toss the kid out at 18 (when the checks cut off) weighing 650 lb.s. If only CPS went after foster parents as viscously as they do biological parents.

[Chemisse]

7. Maybe he should be in a hospital-like setting

And get aggressive treatment for his disease. Foster parents aren't going to be able to handle an invalid who is wailing for food 24/7.

[izquierdista]

8. He needs to go to camp

A specialized location where his food intake can be monitored, he can learn better eating habits, and he can engage in correct amounts of exercise. Through proper coaching by people who have experience dealing with obesity problems, he can live a better life.

[Wizard777]

26. That's if he is an invalid. That would actually make his care much easier.

I was talking about a couple I knew who had a daughter with morbid obesity on another thread. She was 12 and weighed 450 lbs. They were trying to keep her on her diet. They could only buy food one meal at a time. If there was food in the house she would find it and eat it. If there wasn't enough food. She would fight them for their food. So they had to take turns eating out. She was bigger than both of them put together. Their combined weight was probably about 250. One day I saw the daughter come out the front door carrying her father. She threw him off the porch into the middle of the yard and told him. You come back without food and I will kill you! She was damned serious about that. She had already chased her father out of the house with a knife a couple of times before that. But she had a eating disorder. Her brain was always telling her she was starving. Not hungry, but STARVING. This was regardless of how much she ate. So as far as her brain was concerned. Getting food was always a matter of life and death. When she would fight her parents for their food. It wasn't really a fight for food. It was a fight for life. Every denial of food was an attempt to kill her as far as her brain was concerned. She reacted accordingly. It was horrible for the girl and her parents.

[elleng]

10. 'Taken away' is probably not the correct term.

tho it might be the reality, temporarily.

They BOTH have to learn, and that may be the best and most practical way. They both need professional help, IMO.

[democracy1st]

22. good call

[waiting for hope]

23. Here's a bit more on the story:

http://www.comcast.net/video/mother-neglected-obese-teen/1135228177/

[elleng]

24. MAJOR ISSUE HERE:

How the Food Makers Captured Our Brains

'The food industry has combined and created foods in a way that taps into our brain circuitry and stimulates our desire for more.

When it comes to stimulating our brains, Dr. Kessler noted, individual ingredients aren’t particularly potent. But by combining fats, sugar and salt in innumerable ways, food makers have essentially tapped into the brain’s reward system, creating a feedback loop that stimulates our desire to eat and leaves us wanting more and more even when we’re full.

Dr. Kessler isn’t convinced that food makers fully understand the neuroscience of the forces they have unleashed, but food companies certainly understand human behavior, taste preferences and desire. In fact, he offers descriptions of how restaurants and food makers manipulate ingredients to reach the aptly named “bliss point.” Foods that contain too little or too much sugar, fat or salt are either bland or overwhelming. But food scientists work hard to reach the precise point at which we derive the greatest pleasure from fat, sugar and salt.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/health/23well.html?_r...