Rachel Maddow talks with Howard Dean about Obama's defense of DOMA.

[madfloridian]

Run time: 08:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP76-N2qxxg   Posted on YouTube: June 16, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 16, 2009 By DU Member: madfloridian Views on DU: 3635

 
This was a good discussion. He doubts Obama knew of the text, but he says that now he has a problem. He says DOMA is unconstitutional, and he questions the language of the filing.

He says the language was terribly offensive, and Obama was going to have to dig himself out of this.

He says you can not talk about gay Americans the way they were talked about in this brief.

He is right.

[Captain Hilts]

1. The language used really surprised me. Speaking of apologies owed...nt

[Hissyspit]

2. DEAN: "The language in this brief is really offensive."

"You cannot talk about gay Americans the way gay Americans are talked about in this brief."

[MarjorieG]

3. I thought language was citing of original, offensive language, which happens in cases.

Maybe Dean didn't know.

[madfloridian]

4. Don't try that on me.

There is no excuse for putting forth a brief with that kind of language in it. I just went through a lot of verbal gymnastics with some who were excusing it.

Also more at Pam's House Blend.

There is no excuse for a Dem adminstration using that kind of language against a group of Americans.

[MarjorieG]

8. I'm not excusing it, but also sure Obama didn't know. Which is important to me.

Tribe didn't think this a good case to fight DOMA, if I remember correctly.

[FreeState]

9. If he didn't know thats worse than if he did IMO n/t

[MarjorieG]

12. Seriously think he should know this, in the middle of everything else?

[shadowknows69]

22. Um, yeah. That's his freaking job. He, supposedly, gets daily briefings doesn't he?

[shadowknows69]

21. And he knows by now, unless he's being kept in a Bush like bubble.

[madfloridian]

27. Yes, he knows by now.

.

[theHandpuppet]

17. Then he needs to make a public statement denouncing the brief

His silence on this is just as important to me. If he wasn't aware of the language in the brief or was appalled by it, then he needs to speak up, because UNDER HIS WATCH the first major message his administration has sent to the millions of Americans of the GLBT community is a huge, humiliating slap in the face.

[Captain Hilts]

20. Correct. He needs to denounce the language of this brief, and those who vetted it. nt

[waterboy]

11. Obama is looking like one of "them"

We gave Obama over $400.00 in the hopes that he would keep his word but from FISA, NAFTA, and now this issues he is obviously just another puppet for the oligarchy. He swore to defend the constitution I was hopeful now I am just depressed.

[Dawgs]

18. So you didn't listen to anything that Howard Dean said in that video?

:shrug:

You just chose to believe the parts you wanted to believe?

[waterboy]

29. I believe facts

"I believe facts" Regardless of what Bush, Obama, and yes even Howard Dean says. We gave Obama our hard earned money based on his rhetoric but look at his actions in relation to his speech with the AMA, dont ask don't tell, now according to Howard Dean supporting a derogation of the constitution! The list goes on and on. There is a movement to audit the fed if Obama supports this then I will continue to support him otherwise I will make the decision based on the facts(not just what people say)that he is just another puppet for the oligarchy. I pray that he isn't.

[madfloridian]

31. Dean did not defend Obama....just said he probably did not know.

Which is not a defense.

[urgk]

37. Ummm...I give up...what is it then?

Because not knowing about something that has happened certainly seems to absolve one of responsibility for that happening.

Not making a statement since is a whole different matter.

[madfloridian]

38. ?

[midnight]

5. Thank you Dr. Dean for being a leader on so many fronts.

[shadowknows69]

23. Can't we build a time machine and get this man elected President?

I don't care what it takes. He would have been one of the best. Sadly he probably also would have been "Kennedy'd". I think that might be why Al Gore didn't go for the job.

[HughMoran]

6. He said that even though Obama likely never saw the brief, that the blowback from this might

force Obama to make a decision on DADT and DOMA sooner than he had planned. So perhaps in a twisted (but offensive) way, this brief might help speed things up a bit.

[glinda]

7. My husband and I both thought Obama most likely DID NOT see it at all.

[Captain Hilts]

19. I agree with that. But he needs to express discontent with the folks that did - Holder? nt

[mitchtv]

33. that sounds like buck passing to me

Dean was supposing a lot

[greeneyedboy]

10. This is a great exchange. Thanks for posting it.

Dean pulls no punches on this, calling it a "huge mistake".

Good for him, and good for Maddow for doing real journalism when nobody else does.

[madfloridian]

13. I was impressed by it.

:hi:

[tomm2thumbs]

14. very well stated by Dean - glad he is one of those out there talking - as a doctor

he knows the ropes and knows the games being played

[urgk]

15. I'm sorry...why is it "Obama's defense of DOMA" again?

Sure, it becomes his PR problem after the fact, but to make it sound like he signed off on the brief is to be disingenuous.

[shadowknows69]

24. His continued silence on it makes it Obama's defense of DOMA

This is the President who promised transperancy and he promised that even if his administration did something we didn't like, he would at least pay us the respect of telling us why. Unlike the last asshole who never even pretended to care what we think.

[urgk]

35. I don't think that logically follows, but I understand the sentiment. n/t

[chascarrillo]

26. Obama is the head of the Executive Branch. The DoJ is part of the Executive Branch.

Glad I could help. If you have any other questions, please refer to the Constitution of the United States of America.

[urgk]

36. Thanks for the "insight." If I need any more in-depth analysis like that, I'll find a cereal box. nt

[Thrill]

39. I'm sure the President reads every brief filed by the DOJ. Jeesh

:crazy:

[chascarrillo]

40. So, when Gonzales was defending torture as AG, it wasn't "Bush's defense of torture"?

Don't be fatuous.

[mitchtv]

43. No, it was the Bush Administration's defense of torture

to be precise

[chascarrillo]

44. Who was in charge of the Bush Administration?

[mitchtv]

45. Bush

[chascarrillo]

46. Who is in charge of the Obama administration?

Someone other than Obama?

[1776Forever]

16. Gay Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution - Read on..........

Perhaps Mr. Holder should read this:

Flexing the Fourteenth Amendment: The New Inclusion of Gay and Lesbian Americans in the U.S. Constitution

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/8/7/4/8/p87480_index.html

Abstract:

While the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court to protect African American civil rights since the 1950s, it was first cited as protective of gay and lesbian civil rights only in 1996. This work analyzes the new social construction of gay and lesbian civil rights within the historical context of African American civil rights. I find that such a comparative analysis is key to understanding contemporary debates relating to same-sex marriage, since same-sex marriage policy is richly based upon the historical struggle in U.S. society to recognize interracial marriage. Furthermore, though the complicated hierarchy of legal case scrutiny created in recent decades by the Court seems incompatible with democracy and indicates to us that Fourteenth Amendment values of equal protection and due process cannot be taken at face value in the American system of government, I find that the Court's new inclusion, albeit limited, of gays and lesbians in the provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment shows us that the U.S. Constitution can still be a significant and promising source of rights. The Court now understands sexuality, like race, as a fixed characteristic. By constructing gays and lesbians as a legal entity in need of protection, the Court is making it easier for them to challenge discrimination.

Bergeron, Joe. "Flexing the Fourteenth Amendment: The New Inclusion of Gay and Lesbian Americans in the U.S. Constitution" Paper presented at the annual meeting of the Western Political Science Association, Marriott Hotel, Oakland, California, Mar 17, 2005 <Not Available>. 2009-05-25 <http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p87480_index.html>

[TankLV]

25. Damn Fucking Right!!!

I just want to see the USUAL fucking APOLOTISTS here on DU show up to justigy THIS CRAP!

They disgust me...

[Starry Messenger]

28. K&R

[booley]

30. Didn't Shrub leave a lot of his people in the DOJ?

I am not excusing this of course.

BUT didn't Shrub have a lot of political appointees he mad official positions so when Obama took office he couldn't just get rid of them?

Could that have had some influence on this?

[William769]

32. K&R!

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Dr Dean makes good!

He's so good on so many issues. Too bad he's not President.

[donheld]

41. 100% agree

K & R

[Wednesdays]

42. K&R

:kick:

[madfloridian]

47. Keeping this kicked