Clearest video of BART shooting so far

[RagingInMiami]

Run time: 01:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8_TGixgoLw   Posted on YouTube: January 09, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 09, 2009 By DU Member: RagingInMiami Views on DU: 5046

 
If you want to see a cop shoot and kill a handcuffed man in cold blood, click on the video.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Oh my God. That was a fucking EXECUTION!!!

:grr:Recommended!:grr:

[sasquatch]

3. And there is no justice unless the executer becomes the executee IMHO

This is one of those cases where the death penalty is warranted in my opinion.

[axollot]

53. Exactly what it was - newbie cowboy cop prolly Blackwater trained too.....grrrrr nt

[sasquatch]

2. If that doesn't get your blood boiling, nothing will

:grr:

[florida08]

4. that's fucked up alright

have seen the video several times but this is the first one where I've heard all the audio so clearly. Where the hell are we living?
I jump everytime I hear the shot. I hope the family winds up owning the Bart Police Dept. God rest this poor 22 year old's soul.

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. I see the guy grab hold of the officer's holster

Then the cop puts his hand on his holster and draws his gun and shoots him. Maybe it's not so cut and dried.

[Seldona]

7. I've run that thru every program I've got.

Including converting it to different file formats and cleaning it up. I simply do not see what you are talking about. Nor do I see any sort of resistance on the part of any of the men. One guy was on his stomach with no one aroung him and he never moved!

This was an execution imo. May his family find peace, and may that officer be charged!

[RagingInMiami]

9. How can I convert it so I can edit it in Final Cut Express 4?

I want to slow down and zoom into certain segments of the video.

[Seldona]

11. Sorry, don't use that software. I assume it can use the usual formats? nt

[sce56]

20. You can d/l with a program called "Media Converter"

www.mediaconverter.org

It will convert for you to d/l in a different format also is an add on to FireFox

[RagingInMiami]

44. Thanks

That was surprisingly easy.

This is why I wanted to do that.

http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/09/slow-motion-video-of-bart-shooting-video-shows-more-details/

[sce56]

47. Great work! Glad to be of help

[PatrynXX]

63. don't know that one

is it free? I use one over at www.vdownloader.es which also has one for the uh porn sites =D

kinda hard to tell whats going on. the saddam hanging video was clearer than this.

good timing on closing the doors

[rhett o rick]

8. You saw what?? I saw a cop shoot a handcuffed man laying on his face with an officers

knee on his head get shot in the back. The officer drew his weapon, stepped back, aimed and shot. Maybe I need to look again.

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. It's not clear for sure

I can see an arm or maybe it could be a leg, but something reaches up and catches on the shooter's holster, right before he reaches for his holster and stands up. There's no excuse I can see for shooting after the fact, but perhaps that's why the officer reached for his gun... to stop if from being taken. Again, though, it's too hard to tell for sure. And there is no point in that video where I can see any handcuffs, but I'll take your word for it.

[rhett o rick]

17. I retract the handcuff claim. After he is shot and turned over it looks like his hand was free.

I was repeating what others had said before. I am not sure about that now. I agree it is not clear.

[Cronus Protagonist]

72. I understand, it's easy to get caught up in the frenzy

God knows there are so many unpunished attacks by cop (I was a victim of that myself), but if we take on a mob mentality we're no better than they are. I'm happy to see you're willing to step clear of that tendency and take a fresh look for yourself, as I am also.

[1monster]

31. One of the cops hit him just before the one who shot him stood up and pulled

his weapon. I don't know which one hit him (and it has been reported eleswhere that the victim was punched), but maybe that is what you are seeing rather than his holster being grabbed?

[Barrymores Ghost]

38. You saw wrong.

His elbows were bent and locked and stayed bent and locked when the shot was fired. The man was subdued when he was executed.

[Cronus Protagonist]

73. How can you be so sure?

I know I cannot be that sure from that video, or any of the others that I've seen.

[quantass]

14. I dont see that at all..Seems like the man cooperated and was executed.

[jberryhill]

19. I can't see how you see that

Can you give a time index on that. The stand up and draw both seem blocked by the cop in the foreground.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. I have watched that over and over...

he is on his stomach with a knee in his neck. His leg moved a couple of times, but his hand did not go near his holster. The cop calmly stood up, stepped back, and executed him.

[madeline_con]

27. NO. The guy was face down, cuffed.

The cops turned him over (face up) after he was shot.

[Barrymores Ghost]

39. He wasn't cuffed...

...if you watch, just before the doors on the train close, his right arm swings free and out, around the 1:40 mark. But the point remains, he was subdued, was not resisting, and his elbows were bent and his arms were behind his back and stayed that way even after the shot was fired.

This was an execution - intentional or not.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. At the moment he fired

both officers, the shooter and the other, had cleared the victim's body. The way both officers disengaged, and the surprised body language of all officers in frame, suggests to me, this guy was trying to use his taser.

It may be gross negligence, manslaughter, etc, but I don't buy 'execution'. Intent is important. At least, based on THIS video. Lots of witnesses very close to the shooting. Some with better angles. Some that probably heard the exchange between the two officers, the shooter and the one that was helping to restrain the victim. I await further evidence, but my internet armchair impression, is that this was a massive, negligent fuckup.

As a tangent, I would also argue that tasing was completely unnecessary, in this instance, and is over-used across the country, but it is also probably department policy in that situation. Something we can all be working to change.

Tasers are used far too often, and the device is entirely too firearm-like. Bad combination.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

61. 100% agreed. They show up in

every thread to support police brutality.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. I do not support police brutality

A short search of DU would prove that beyond your wildest dreams. And as I said, even if the guy grabbed his holster, it's still not an excuse to shoot him, however, in the eyes of the law, I've seen other situations similar to this where the cop was exonerated by a jury, so as I said, it might not be as cut and dried as you think. Does that make me a nazi apologist? Hell no. It makes me unbiased and clearly not one who goes along with mob mentality. And despite what you think, both the cop and the victim are innocent until proven guilty. This is still America, you know. Perhaps you could learn something from that.

[ooglymoogly]

75. The mirror that you have constructed for yourself

is giving you false information.

[Cronus Protagonist]

76. Gosh, how do you get to be so RIGHT all the time?

You must have the hand of God up your ass or something.

[Cronus Protagonist]

70. Really?

I hate nazis and fascists, but I'm not surprised at your comment, I just wouldn't want to live in your mind for even a moment.

[Wizard777]

50. I think I see what you see. He's not grabbing the holster. The black thing is Grants foot.

If your talking about the guy sitting up against the wall to the left of them. If you check the slo-mo video in the link in Post 44 "Thanks." You can see more clearly that what the guys hand is near is Mr. Grants foot. Not the officers holster. But the officer is presenting that guy with opportunities to grab his gun. That's a procedure violation. He's keeping his holster facing away from the guy he's cuffing. But in doing that he's presenting the holster to the guy sitting on the left. It's hard to judge distance. But if that guy would have grabbed the officers gun. That would have involved contributory negligence on the officer behalf. You must be aware of your holster and weapon at all time.

[bowens43]

56. It's cut and dried. The cop is murderer.

even if it happened like you think it did, it would still be murder. The guy is unarmed, on handcuffed and on the ground with anthor cop's knee on his head. The bastard with the gun needs to spend the rest of his life in prison.

[rhett o rick]

6. Has anyone mentioned an investigation about this? nm

[Seldona]

10. The mayor has mentioned two, then three, investigations.

One by BART itself, one by the Oakland DA's Office, and third I didn't get to hear the origin of as the video was in the middle of a protest. It was posted in PV in six parts in one post. Worth watching.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x257213

I believe the Mayor comes in in part Three.

[tblue37]

12. It looked to me as though the idiot cop looked down at his hip in astonishment--

which makes me think he might actually have been trying to tase the victim after all. Of course, there was no reason to tase him, either, but cops tase people for breathing these days.

[jberryhill]

18. He looks down, looks up, and says something to the other cop

I'm not sure about "astonishment", but I wonder what he said to the other cop.

[tblue37]

26. When he looks down, he looks in the direction of his own hip, just before saying

something to the other cop. That's what made me think he was surprised about the gun because he thought he had drawn his Taser.

[DissedByBush]

42. What he said

"Oh shit! I hate camera phones."

The witnesses were lucky the train pulled away immediately, giving them a chance to run away at the next stop. If not they would have been arrested for photographing police, the videos confiscated and then *oops* lost.

[arcane1]

66. exactly!

Even if he HAD used the taser, it would have still been "excessive force" IMO

[Evergreen Emerald]

67. No. He was not cooperating. You could see him struggling

with the officers.

I am sickened by the shooting. How tragic.

[quantass]

15. Isnt fully clear but in every case the Officer made a Blunder and will pay (so will the city)

[FiveGoodMen]

16. Let's hope so.

Maybe they order him to stop breathing and shot him for resisting.

[sce56]

22. If Johannes Mehserle was not a cop he would be sitting in a jail cell right now!

In the early hours of New Years Day 2009, 22 year old Oscar Grant pleaded with the officers who detained him by telling them he had a young daughter at home in the same way one might try to personalize oneself to a criminal in hopes that a connection will be made when being threatened with harm.

Yet, for as of yet unknown reasons, officers pushed him face-down to the floor of the Fruitvale BART station in Oakland California and while one officer knelt with his knee on Grant's neck BART officer Johannes Mehserle attempted to pull Grant's arms behind him... and the world now struggles to make sense of what several witnesses captured on video next.

Videos show Mehserle making a furtive move for the firearm holstered on his right hip, then show him pull away to grab Grant's arms again. Then Mehserle grabs at the same firearm holstered at his right hip a second time, draws his firearm, cradles it with his left hand, and fires a round into Grant's back while he laid, face-down, on the station floor while a second officer controlled him by leveraging his body-weight on his neck.

The shot that killed Oscar Grant spurred angry yells from the multitudes of passengers who witnessed it, yet BART officials kept quiet about it for days, and sought to keep it quiet by confiscating any video equipment and cell phone cameras they could find. Yet some made it out, and the videos went public five days later...

...and now the angry yells from the multitudes who have witnessed this shooting via video haven't stopped since.

Recordings of the shooting by witnesses have surfaced others have been confiscated by BART officials.

[tblue37]

28. This si the sort of thing that makes me scream and pull at my hair:

". . . sought to keep it quiet by confiscating any video equipment and cell phone cameras they could find."

"Recordings of the shooting by witnesses have surfaced others have been confiscated by BART officials."

It's bad enough that the cops commit crimes and abuses, but it's even more infuriating that they are so quick in their attempts to suppress the evidence. What the hell right do the cops have to confiscate the private property of witnesses? Yeah, it's obvious why they do it, but it shows how far into police state fascism we have come that they so automatically do this and think they can get away with it.

I am not even going to make the obligatory statement that many cops are good guys. I am sorry, but "good guys" do not try to cover it up when bad cops commit crimes and abuses. I am sure all the other cops there consider themselves "good" cops, yet when one of their own committed cold-blooded murder--or at the very least manslaughter or negligent homicide--right before their eyes, their immediate reaction was to confiscate the property of a multitude of witnesses in an attempt to cover up the crime.

How is this any different from the way the police in a dictatorship would act toward the public if the public had seen something the police didn't want the world to know about?

[Amonester]

33. TRYING to confiscate video equipment in this UTUB day 'n age

isn't only a sign of "bad cops", it's insanely STUPID to begin with.

Education failed this country. :cry:

[HPD]

23. Oscar's friends are best witnesses

to the reaction of the cops and shooter and as to what they say to each other after the firing. The cops are so stunned they allow the other men to stand up after the shot is fired.

I think oscar's friends were advised by lawyers not to discuss in detail of everything that happened. The shooter and the other cop obviously exchanged words. To me it is apparent the shooter made a mistake and couldn't believe he just shot the man. Whether or not he thought he had a taser in his hand, or if he got caught up in the moment and lost concentration of what he is doing (kind of like when you are driving on the highway and you lose time for two minutes and are surprised to still be in your lane). Either way, he should be prosecuted and serve jail to a charge of some kind. Right now the DA is probably thinking what charge to file on the officer. I really do not think he will go free. The officer will serve prison time.

[HPD]

25. The officer already admitted he wrongly shot Oscar...

When he resigned from the force. To me that means he knows what he did was wrong.

[tblue37]

29. You wrote:

"To me it is apparent the shooter made a mistake and couldn't believe he just shot the man."

This is how it looks to me, too.

[jberryhill]

30. "they allow the other men to stand up after the shot is fired"

That is certainly clear, and suggests that the shooting did not contribute to order, and was itself something that was suddenly more important than whatever was going on previously.

[valerief]

24. That cop is a savage and should be executed. nt

[Hyper_Eye]

54. Because two wrongs make a right?

If this cop "executed" this man he was terribly wrong in doing so. Execution is wrong. The situation will not be made better by conducting state-sponsored executions/murders. It does not sit well with me at all that my government sends people to death whether it is on an unnecessary battlefield or a death chamber. Anyone here who would condemn capital punishment but also call for this officer to be executed is a hypocrite.

Also, I believe in the principal of the accused being innocent until proven guilty. I can clearly see the tape but I am only one individual, do not have all the facts, and cannot alone make up a jury. I believe that this incident deserves severe punishment but I would prefer to let the courts and a jury make an informed decision to that end.

[valerief]

69. You're right. Maybe he can be retooled. nt

[RoccoR5955]

32. Welcome to the Police States of AmeriKKKa...

...where the police do not have to obey the law, because they ARE the law.

The revolution will NOT be televised!

[davefromqueens]

34. The reactions of the cop

when the man was shot is very important.

To them it was that of a who cares. If the cop shot him accidentally his first reacion would have been one of horror and calls for immediate help of the man.

That was NOT his first reaction. This looks like a murder.

[HPD]

35. I am not seeing the same reaction

I see a man who can not believe he just shot the guy. The other officer looks the same way. Remember there was a train full of people next to them. Any rational cop would not murder someone in front of a mass audience, with cameras. I know i know, some of you will say this happens on the streets of the ghetto all the time. But the train is not the hood.

Their reaction is not one of who cares.

[Grown2Hate]

36. Maybe I'm blind, but which cop is it that does the shooting?

I can't seem to make it out somehow.

[JimDandy]

49. The one standing by the boy's feet - with his face toward the camera. n/t

[HPD]

37. Maybe this was a hit

I'm sensing a Law and Order episode is in the works.

[Wizard777]

51. New Orleans style?

Members of the New Orleans police were operating a drug ring. They put a hit out a couple that owed them money. The hit man was having problems with the killing. The girl got away from him and called 911. Luck of the draw she got a dispatcher that was also part of the drug ring and knew about the hit. That officer dispatched another officer who was in the ring to the call. The Officer executed the couple in uniform and on duty. Police make the best hitmen. They have LEOBR protecting them.

[kpominville]

41. Looks like an accident to me

The reaction of the cops makes me think this was an accident.

I bet he meant to grab his taser and grabbed him gun by mistake.

[jobycom]

43. I'm not sure I see the "surprise" that others see.

He looks pretty calm when he re-holsters the gun. That's when I see him looking at his hip. He makes eye contact with his partner, but that could mean anything from "Oh hell, what just happened," to "I showed him, didn't I?"

By resigning, he made it so that he can't be forced to give his story. He's no longer accountable to Internal Affairs, so he's now under the 5th. It's hard to know what motivates anyone, and there's no telling what his attorneys are advising, but it seems to me that if it were an accident he'd be trying to scream that fact out to anyone who would listen. His strongest proof of an accident would be his partner, the guy he looks at and speaks to right after it happens. Those words would be crucial. It surprises me that he resigned before being able to tell his side to IA, since they could then corroborate with the other cops and at least get the police force on his side. The fact that he hasn't tried to get that on record, as well as the testimony of the cops closest to him, makes me think that that testimony wouldn't be helpful to him.

Of course, there's no guarantee that his lawyers gave him the right advice, so it doesn't prove anything.

Also notice that this is the same cop who shoves the other suspect down just before they start trying to cuff the shooting victim. And while he's down on the shooting victim's back, he reaches for his holster, then returns to trying to cuff the man, then a few seconds later grabs his holster again, this time unsnapping, drawing, and firing. The spot where he first reaches for his holster is not as clear on this video as on the others.

I'd love to hear what he has to say, and what the other cops have to say. Whoever is telling them to be quiet is doing this cop a disservice if this was an accident.

[RagingInMiami]

45. I slowed the video down to see more details of what took place

http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/09/slow-motion-video-of-bart-shooting-video-shows-more-details/

[Hutzpa]

46. I WANT THAT GUY DEAD.... DEAD TO THE GROUND

This is Fucking OUTRAGIOUS...the kid was not even fighting, watch the reaction of the
other Police Officers.

:wtf:


:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[axollot]

52. You can see it at the 1:20ish mark - the

guy in a police officer's uniform (he doesn't deserve to be called a cop) with dark hair shot him, totally execution style. The balding heavy set cop seemed a bit shocked at what had just happened to, then gets on about helping his 'buddy'.

Fucking trigger happy cowboys - assholes were probably - 'Blackwater' trained/up-trained officers too. I've noticed the worst brutality comes from cops that have either been trained or had 'further' training as 'peace' officers commit shit like this than officers that have not been blackened by 'Blackwater' - those fucker's need to be shut DOWN.

I've not looked it up what anyone know if these cops (county, city?) had the death hand of Blackwater upon them? There is already a massive pattern.

Cheers
sandy

[Enthusiast]

55. This nation's law enforcement is

out of control! What will hear? This was an isolated incident, you know, a few bad apples. So, why is it then, we seem to have all these clear examples of police brutality? Always some camera recording LEO's candid actions.

[mrs_p]

59. i agree - it is actually the other way around

there are only a few good apples...

[Enthusiast]

65. Yes, and the good ol' blue boy club

protects them.

[Downtown Hound]

57. This looks like manslaughter to me

It really doesn't look like an intentional killing to me. Probably the officer thought he was reaching for his taser or something. However that being said, I see no reason why the taser was even warranted in this situation at all. A taser always has the potential to be lethal, and should only be used in cases where there is a danger to the safety of any human being, be it officer, bystander, or the suspect themselves. This case did not qualify. So what you have here is an inappropriate use of force that resulted in a horrible tragedy due to the officer's incompetence. Not okay by any stretch of the imagination.

Tasers are used way too liberally and even joyfully by LEO's these days it seems. There needs to be a serious reexamination of this practice.

[2QT2BSTR8]

58. Seeing crap like this makes one really wonder how much power the police have been given to protect..

I wish that a cop, any cop, and especially an honest cop would come forward and talk about the training received via Blackwater that most major American cities have sent their cops to for "training".

[redirish28]

78. This is why my wife hates all cops. She believes there isn't ONE that is

worth trusting and they are just a bunch of ego manics.

[ecstatic]

60. And people wonder why some of us feel so much hostility

when it comes to cops. :eyes:

[rjwin]

62. You see the pattern here?

The suspects were all behaving "suspiciously."

Officers John Coleman and George Connolly were the two policemen involved in the shooting of a 16-year-old Bloomington North High School student downtown Wednesday afternoon, according to a Bloomington Police Department report.

The 22-year-old man killed early Thursday in a police shootout was wounded 14 times, with 12 of the bullets hitting him in the back of his body, Orleans Parish Coroner Frank Minyard said.

There's a sad story today in the Houston Chronicle about a 23-year-old named Robbie Tolan, who was shot outside his home last Wednesday. He now has a bullet lodged in his liver. He's expected to survive, but his baseball career (written about at the bottom of the story) will probably end. Based on all available information so far, it seems like Tolan was nothing more than a victim of shameful police judgment and racial profiling.

Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) officer Johannes Mehserle fired a bullet into Grant's back as the father of a 4-year-old girl lay on his stomach, his hands cuffed, according to a lawyer for the Grant family. The bullet went through Grant's body, ricocheted off the concrete station platform, and punctured his lungs.

[4dsc]

64. looks like resisting arrest to me..

[RagingInMiami]

68. Resisting arrest without violence is a misdemeanor

In no way is it grounds for an officer to shoot and kill a person.

So what is your point?

[4dsc]

74. You are correct

but why do some people believe they have any right to resist arrest??

[Leftest]

79. So what you're saying is none violent resisting negates a cop's guilt of murder?

n/t

[RagingInMiami]

80. In Florida, you have a right to resist arrest non-violently

if the cop has given you an unlawful order.

In fact, I am appealing a resisting arrest without violence conviction based on the following, which is a segment from my brief.


This point is further emphasized in Florida Jur 2d, Criminal Law, §4124, which cites Sims v. State, 743 So. 2d 97 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1sst
Dist. 1999) and Huntley v. State, 575 So. 2d 285 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 5th Dist. 1991):

“A person is not justified in using force to resist arrest by a law enforcement officer who is known, or reasonably appears, to be a law enforcement officer, but nonviolent resistance to an unlawful arrest is no crime. In fact, a lawful arrest is an essential element of the offense of resisting arrest without violence.”

[ecstatic]

81. Even if resisting arrest is illegal (which its not in FL), does that make death

an appropriate punishment? Or should people be entitled to their day in court? :shrug:

[erebusman]

82. wow , where is your heart, and where is your mind?

I don't post here often but you've inspired me with your heartless response.

"looks like resisting arrest to me" thats what you see when you watch the video ?

You didn't see someone being killed?

Your lack of any other input speaks volumes, its tacit approval of the officers actions in my mind.

Also whether people think they have the right to resist arrest or not is irrelevant. Many people do resist being arrested, police officers have training on how to deal with that. Its a tough job, and I wouldn't want to do it. However citizens have the right to not be shot in the back when someone has already got them pinned to the ground with a knee on their neck.

In fact I'd go so far as to say citizens (whether committing crimes or not) have the right to not be shot by law enforcement under any circumstances other than if they are seeking to violently harm an officer or another citizen with a deadly weapon or deadly force.

Please provide argumentation on how deadly force was justified by the officer? Lets put aside mind reading speculation that people *think* he might have been going for a taser. If he doesn't know the difference between a firearm with a safety he has to unlock before firing and a taser he should never have been there in the first place.

Let me quote the Declaration of Independence for you:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

I would argue that the people of California find the BART police to be destructive of their LIfe, Liberty and Pursuit of happiness myself. Therefore I suggest they abolish the BART police and form a new body.

As well as prosecute that murderer for his crimes.

[redirish28]

77. For those of us completely dumb or just out of it. I have see the video

but what is the story behind it. exactly. What is being done about it?

[RagingInMiami]

83. New image doesn't show Taser gun on cop's left (non-gun) side

http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/11/was-bart-police-officer-johannes-mehserle-even-carrying-a-taser-gun/