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TYT: Is Israel's Response To Hamas Correct?

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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:05 PM
Original message
TYT: Is Israel's Response To Hamas Correct?
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 06:18 PM by ihavenobias
 
Run time: 04:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUxDwZli2cQ
 
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Posted on DU: January 01, 2009
By DU Member: ihavenobias
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obvious and common sense. K&R.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
:kick:
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Apparently this guys town is not one of the towns getting bombarded daily.
His broad brush strokes are way off.

Another terrorist apologist.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R. Well-spoken and makes sense to me...
A terrible situation that is only getting worse. What has the US done in the past eight years to broker peace in this beleaguered region? :-(
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proud progressive Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. cenk is right-on again!
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Founding Fathers Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. The reason Hamas rocketed Israel in the first place was...........
The reason Hamas rocketed Israel in the first place was because the Israeli government blocked U.N. food & water shipments into the Palestinian territories. Palestinians were and are still suffering and dying from malnutrition from the illegal, inhuman Israeli blockade. The Western media failed to report this fact. What do you expect Palestinians to do? By law, Palestinians have an international legal right to use force to evict the illegal Occupiers Israel. It is the Israeli government who is unlawfully occupying the Palestinian territories.
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trthnd4jstc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. It is over-reaction. No, Israel should not have done this.
The UN should stop the Hamas Rocket attacks, not Israel.
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Azlady Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R n/t
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. Not getting into who started it but...
Cenk's analysis is fallacious. That individual rocket we saw in this video laying on the ground, was a manpad or man-portable rocket, the type you might use to try to shoot down a helicopter, or as an unguided long range equivalent of a mortar. This is not the only model the Palestinians are firing indiscriminately and unguided, into civilian areas of Israel. The difference is obvious, if you just go up to MSNBC and look at footage of the damage on both sides. Entire Israeli homes are destroyed, this morning I saw a photo of an Israeli elementary school with a hole blown in the side that you could drive a truck through.

Yes, the Quassam rockets are small. Made on-site in Gaza. The Iranian Grad-Katyusha rockets are not. They are smuggled in unassembled (Imagine the food and water shipments displaced by this weaponry), and then fired into Israel, with little guidance. They essentially target an entire city. Russia used these same weapons to bombard Berlin in WWII. Hamas has other weapons at it's disposal as well. This is not 'throwing rocks'. 70lbs of high explosives lobbed about 20 miles into a civilian city is a bit more than 'throwing rocks'. Hezbollah fired between 3 and 5 thousand of these rockets in 2006. They are prolific, they are deadly, and they are totally indiscriminate.

And how does Israel respond? They target the sites where these rockets are launched from. They target buildings suspected to house Hamas leaders. Sometimes they miss. Sometimes the Hamas targets intentionally surround themselves with civilians.

Israel is attacking military targets in and around civilian areas in Gaza. Hamas is attacking Israeli civilians, period. There is no moral equivalence between the two.

There is a basic disparity between the victims on both sides as well. In Israel, they can afford advanced early warning technology, they can spend time and resources building numerous, large civil defense air raid shelters. The Palestinians can afford none of the former, and little of the latter. To say nothing of adequate food, water, and medical services.


It is pointless to discuss proportionate response. This sine wave of violence will continue. Hamas will not be shamed into ceasing it's attacks on civilian populations, and Israel will continue to attempt to use force to eradicate Hamas, and use interdiction to stem the flow of weapons into Gaza, which will also stifle food, water, and other economic relief. Since both sides appear unwilling to resolve the territorial dispute underlying everything, international monitoring, and likely, international peacekeeping forces on both sides will be required to force any sort of cease-fire, so Diplomacy can work it's magic. And that process is going to take a very long time.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. What you say makes sense,
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 11:01 PM by ejbr
however, given the number of Palestinian deaths in response to Israelis casualties, Israel still comes out looking like pricks. Whether a response is justified or not is not the question, but rational people should consider the inevitable results of the response. Hamas is "gunning" for civilians, while Israel wants military targets? I don't see how this excuses the amount of force which consequently kills exponentially more Palestinian civilians than Israeli casualties. Neither does Cenk. And I have to disagree about it being pointless to discuss proportionate response. Innocent people's lives are at stake, even if they are "just" Palestinians.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yep. n/t
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Rockets, Schmockets - "Holy Wars" & Oil Whores K&R
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 11:01 PM by theFrankFactor
This conflict is the result of Western interference in this psychotic religious shitbed in the Middle East. When/if we leave the fucking shit storm we made in Iraq, it will be the same idiotic religious butchering and bombing as Israel v. Palestine.

We suck Israel's dick and openly fuck the Palestinians- hence they will continue to fuck us back (9-11). No one REALLY gives a fuck about "peace" in the Middle East except those who think they are dealing with rational human beings. We are not. They are not.

America hates Arabs but for those who own America and have American financial interests. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Blah-blahians--they're willfully insane and love conflict and drama. Peace is boring to these large groups of brain washed killers.

It's a fucking mess we should have kept our fucking noses out of. But then what fun is that? Empires and dynasties aren't made being sane, mature and well adjusted.

I hate to say it but Obama and my buddy Joe are ready to swallow some Zion Gizz ASAP.

Holy Wars? Need I say more?
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R nt
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. Gaza's leaders are like the president of the Republic of Georgia - k*r
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 01:51 PM by autorank
Remember him, Mikheil Saakashvili. He decided to poke a stick in the eye of the Russian Bear. Just thought it would be ok to do that. What happened? The Russians did exactly what you'd expect them to do. The rolled in and took over 1/2 the country because Mr. Wise Guy decided he was special and could avoid the obvious response.

Cenk is right, the response was disproportionate. BUT the provocation was insane. What's the point? The attacks were ineffective and the response devastating. My understanding is that the first salvo was aimed at the school for ordinance that trains the missile operators. But why does that even exist. It has ONE sole outcome, in effect, and that is to provoke a response that those who authorize the attacks know will come. How screwed up is that? And who gets hurt, civilians.

It makes no sense for any attacks to continue, particularly those by Hammas that Hammas knows will result in massive civilian casualties.
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