Conservatives Outraged Over Chocolate Jesus Art

[DaveJ]

Run time: 03:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5Mqn4Fr5w   Posted on YouTube: April 17, 2015 By YouTube Member: YouTube Help Views on YouTube: 12180171   Posted on DU: April 01, 2007 By DU Member: DaveJ Views on DU: 1939

 
I am disgusted by Bill Donahue. Raised Catholic, I have had mixed feelings and slight guilt about failing to attend church, but when I hear this guy talk I know there is a good reason behind my decision.

IMO, Cosimo is perfectly on target with everything he says, including referring to Donahue as a bully. It's astounding that any religious organization would pick such a bully to represent them.

I'm even more upset that I know the Catholic church will keep on going no matter who represents them. But now instead of being known for piety and forgiveness, the church is no different than all the other institutions bullying us.

[DCKit]

1. We have got to begin calling these people something other than "conservative"

Invariably the biggest critics turn out to be the biggest freaks; pedophiles, cross-dressers, abusers, closeted gays, drug addicts, drunks, wife-beaters, serial adulterers.... you know what I'm saying.

Other than the obvious labels, "hypocrite", "Repuke", "RepubliCon" and "fanatic", we need to come up with a word that succinctly describes these people in terms even they understand.

[Maddy McCall]

2. Religiocrats.

:shrug: :D

[DaveJ]

3. I wasn't thinking and just copied the YouTube title

I know using the word Conservatives in this context can alienate a lot of good people.

I'm afraid, though, that if they stop being labeled conservatives, these freaks might occasionally try to align themselves with Democrats, which would make us look bad.

In this case, I'm sure Donahue would identify himself as a conservative, but it depends on one's definition. According to my definition, being conservative means being stagnant, as opposed to progressives who are in touch with today's quickly evolving world.

So there are two options, making Conservative a bad word or inviting them to join the Democratic party. Not sure which is best.

[swimmernsecretsea]

4. You might be right about that.

I've just been giving them the informal "weirdo" and "lunatic" labels, but they just don't fit, and it's way too broad. I mean, there are people I know of conservative thought who do not act like the raving, straitjacket-wearing, foaming-at-the mouth freak that tends to hog airtime. Conservative just doesn't conjure the mental image needed.

[DaveJ]

6. Consider this -- I'd rather be a lunatic than a Conservative Republican

Most people associate conservatives with Republicans. I don't think that can be changed in less than 2 years. In the long run after Ruthugs are wiped off the political landscape, then conservatives will have a greater role to play.

[swimmernsecretsea]

8. Oh, I agree.

There's something different about a malevolent personality that wishes to destroy reputations, commandeer the constitution, and suppress rights all while wearing a bright happy grin. Lunatic is mild in comparison.

[Divine Discontent]

7. in biblical days...

people like you just described I believed were called Pharisees because I think that's how the Pharisees behaved, they were obsessed with laws of the land, and surely broke some themselves but decried sinners who did and weren't interested in letting regular 'man' to enter into their realm, where as Jesus was more focused with God's love, and reaching out to mankind.
and personally, because I love what Jesus stands for so much I couldn't stand seeing that life size chocolate Jesus, it serves no purpose to me. I also do not like buying or receiving chocolate crosses at Easter. It's tacky considering how holy the cross represents to Christians. I think throwing a fit about the art exhibit serves no purpose also other than to give it unneeded attention.

edited: I do not equate Pharisees with modern day Jewish culture and belief, so please do not think I am in any way intending to connect today's faith, to the people and rulers of the past. Also, some believe that negative views associated with Pharisee belief was only added in after Judaism separated fully from the emerging Christian faith, long after Jesus' ascension.


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[DaveJ]

11. Thank you for the deep explanation

That really clears things up. I'm not sure what to think now, except that going after peoples' livelihoods is a distugting thing to do today. It might have been less traumatic a couple thousand years ago.

[Hand]

22. Um... Pond scum? nt

[go west young man]

32. Fundamentalist nutjob sounds like a good title to me!

[Webster Green]

5. Donahue is always whining about something....always the victim..

I sent him an e-mail today telling him what a dickhead he is.

I was raised Catholic too, but I bailed out when I was about 11 years old. Now, all religion gives me the fucking creeps.

[DaveJ]

9. I have nothing against religion

I understand it gives people a cohesive understanding of the world. And there are a lot of people who would be better off with it. For instance, my brother in law has been in and out of jail dozens of times and I know if he had gone to ANY church regularly, it would have helped him. But now that I'm mentally mature I just don't believe in it, but I still think people need something to fill in the blanks, so to speak.

So with respect to the way my parents raised me, the Catholic church now behaving like thugs is a complete disgrace.

[BearSquirrel2]

24. Actually ...

Actually chocolate communion may be device that could bring up church attendance. We wouldn't have to be constrained to chocolate. They could do crackers, fruit, even SKITTLES!!!! None of these would bring me back. But maybe SWEDISH FISH!!!! Hey fish/Jesus, I think that one is a winner.

[happyslug]

10. The Catholic League is NOT the Catholic Church

Under CATHOLIC Doctrine only the Bishops can speak for the Church, thus what the Catholic League says is from the point of the Catholic League, not the Catholic Church (and Donahue is an idiot).

On the other hand, the creator of this "art work" knew some people would be offended, thus why did he have in on display during the last weeks of Lent? In my local newspaper it was reported that it was just an accident of scheduling, but I don't believe it. Why not release this "Art Work" during the Fourth of July? Between Lent and Advent you can remove two months of the year, that gives him 10 months to display this "Art Work" so why the last two weeks of lent? The only answer is to create controversy (Which it has). This type of controversy used to be called a provocation, but such accusations are rare these days. Thus you have two sets of "Idiots" fighting over this "Art Work", some far right bigots who see anti-catholicism everywhere and an artist (and his supporters) who also want controversy by showing how "Artistic" they are and they are being attacks by right wing fanatics. I do not know which is worse, but they also tend to feed off each other and I always suspect that the Catholic League found out about something like this Statute by the Artists and/or his supporters sending a picture and/or letter about it, knowing the Catholic League will jump at the bait (in the 1950s a similar stunt was often done by getting a book "banned in Boston". Such a ban was a guarantee way to get in the news and increase sales no matter how bad the book was from any point of view).

Simply put, lets ignore BOTH sides on this argument for it is about NOTHING except both parties getting their name in the news.

[DaveJ]

14. This is the first of this kind Cosimo made

It's not like Cosimo has been making a living from controversy, so I'm not sure he was trying to offend. I think this is in keeping with his style. If you'd like you can go to his webpage and be see if you think he's a legitimate artist or just an agitator (http://www.cosimocavallaro.com/). I think he's just a normal artist who is being attacked.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. A point that should be made more often...

that Donohue only speaks for the more retrograde Catholics.

But, although his organization is independant from the church, I don't doubt for a minute that the more conservative elements in the hierarchy are giving him a wink and a nod most of the time for saying what they dare not. The rest of the time he doubtless exasperates them, but has to be tolerated.

Bottom line-- if our society is to be considered free, then elephant dung Marys, piss Christs, chocolate Christs, and heretical movies must exist along side of those who find them offensive. Both sides make their points, and the rest of us sit back and watch the show. I worry when there is no more show to watch.

And, ummm..., it does seem entirely reasonable that if one must make a chocolate Christ, it would be made at Easter. Perhaps we'll see them at Wallgreen's next to the bunnies.

[crikkett]

20. and to think of how many gave up chocolate for lent

what a tease!

[go west young man]

33. "Art' is in the eye of the beholder.

Artists are not always fully aware of what their art means. It's often a voyage of self discovery. I'm not saying Cosimo is that way but who's to say? Are you saying artists should not challenge the establishment? Should John Lennon have kept quiet about the Vietnam war? Or maybe Dali should have never blown off the Surrealists who wanted to claim him as one of their fold. Thank god for artists like Cosimo who are helping to expose the hatred in the Catholic League. His art is obviously making a difference as we are all affected enough to bother discussing it. Having watched this video it's easy to see who most closely resembles the behavoir of the man Jesus Christ was. I'm sure he would have nothing to do with Mr. Donahue. That man is vitriolic and hateful.

[niceypoo]

12. This guy has always been a pompous asshole

I cannot for the life of me understand why the catholic church allows such a childish moron to represent them.

[rodeodance]

13. Donahue should be fired as a Rep. for Catholics.

[bridgit]

16. i think "no different than all the other institutions bullying us" is too broad a brush...

it implies that liberal/progressives aren't outraged at a chocolate christ, which is by extension a 'piss christ', or an elephant dung Virgin Mary, or as Dylan rightly pointed out quite some time ago,

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.

the majority of my friends are artists, my husband is a contemporary artist a dadaist no less, so the berth is very wide as to the employment of symbols if indeed it exists at all,

but there is no substitute for the understanding of the power of symbols, and what they mean to others,

if you think this Donahue guy is a shrill (i'm catholic and i think he's nutty), can you imagine the outcry were Mohammad to be rendered in chocolate? that artist would be torn limb from limb

iMo, Cosimo is getting a free pass on many levels

[Warren DeMontague]

18. If you don't like the art, don't look at it, or make some of your own.

If it offends you, look away. Look at something that doesn't offend you.

People don't get to censor the entire outside Universe to suit the peculiarities of the inside of their own heads.

I think, if anyone, it's the folks who can't understand that who are getting the "free pass"-- and that applies just as much to nutjobs outraged to violence by depictions of Mohammed as it does to Bill Donahue.

[bridgit]

21. not the point, listen again to Cosimo's own words, "My intention was to shock people."

he has received no less than a free pass while using "an iconic figure" to merely shock people in a world that receives images of children being blown in two,

the ultimate point here is that liberal/progressives are only getting outraged by things they are able to either ignore, or are able to disdain from the comforts of their own climate controlled computer chairs while the right continues to stand, deliver shit, talk smack, and dissemble all manner of important freedoms & liberty's...perhaps they are simply able to talk quicker

what you have also implied is this: 'If you don't like the Cheney/Bush Admin; don't look at it.', and imo that is exactly the ways in which cheney & bush want you to think; many may be so inclined, but i am disinclined

"It's my job to worry about it. It's your job to go about your business." g.w. bush

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Bush and Cheney aren't "art". And images of children being blown in two have diddly shit to do

with a Chocolate Jesus.

Besides, the outrage there isn't so much the images of the children victims of war, as it is the ACT. Or am I mistaken?

You're confusing speech with action. Getting your symbolic levels confused. There is a difference between a book about the Holocaust and the actual holocaust, isn't there?

(Speaking of works of art, I must commend you on the artistic way you were able to cram so many straw men completely irrelevant to the topic at hand into that post)

Beyond that, Cosimo said his intent was to "shock people"- so fucking what. God forbid anyone should have their theological sensibilities shocked? And you've got Bill Donahue, professional windbag and Emeritus Professor of Full-of-shit-dom, railing against the guy on national tv. People, even here, are grousing about this chocolate jesus, instead of working against the REAL obscenities, namely the Bush administration and their push towards permanent war abroad and theocratic government at home (on the plus side, though, you'll get all the censorship you could ever ask for :thumbsup:)

So how is that a "free pass"?

[bridgit]

27. you're just not getting it, and your post here trends toward supporting that...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=21458&mesg_id=21488

why indeed do you suppose Cosimo used chocolate as a media?

my sense is that he chose to cop out as an artist. chose not to use pig shit, chose not to use dead dung beetles, chose not to use the coagulated blood of fallen heroes felled before lesser gods & global oligarchs; chose not to use an entire landscape of media that would have *surely* guaranteed controversy while perhaps even making a contribution to corporate art grants & fellowships, but chose rather to use a medium that would be sweet to the mental tongue and designed to convey the love of a Hallmark greeting card

i am catholic as stated above, it is part of my belief system that Jesus lived; that the body of Jesus bled, sweated, and so became salty to the tongue after tripping through the narrow streets of Jerusalem, then on to Galgatha nailed to a cross yada-yada-yada; not to mention the garden the night previous...most likely salty to the tongue i should say, if it is your belief that was a rugged cross to bear,

though if you think that that matter was akin to a wicker basket filled with chocolate, French country potpourri, and puppy kisses then you may be right after all,

still my concern is for freedom & liberty to express one's self so that it is my further sense that as an artist, and though it is his call; Cosimo did not go near/far enough = imo Michaelangelo he ain't, but if you want to defend his right to be mediocre then that is your business such as it is

artists have suffered tortures for painting a mole onto the precious cheek of some noble princess, Cosimo has played it so safe as to be corporate, lesser, causing no rift whatsoever and so making no contribution to art as a continuum

your point here however: "There is a difference between a book about the Holocaust and the actual holocaust, isn't there?"

is not well made in the least in that that would entirely depend upon the experience and your relation to it (merely bandying the word 'holocaust' about seems itself weak :shrug: as you have done once with an upper case 'H', and a lower case 'h' so as to prove the theorem), my father was part of the advance that liberated Bergen-Belsen; and he lived with those nightmares till the day he was himself murdered, though in between was little set off than by the image of what it were he had experienced first hand...so i do not accept your notion while i understand what 'a book' is perfectly fine therefore,

your lack of respect for the power of symbols would seem in need of a tune-up

you're likely mistaken here as well: "Besides, the outrage there isn't so much the images of the children victims of war, as it is the ACT. Or am I mistaken?"

not true in the least, and as your proof it is my sense you require...get out on YouTube and find some truly vile-ass shit, bring it back here and post it in the vid forum...then start your stop-watch, and see how long it takes before it is locked,

go'head, i'll wait

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Now Cosimo gets a free pass because his art isn't controversial enough?

Like Jesus said to the ex-leper in "Monty Python's Life of Brian", I guess there's just no pleasing some people.

As for why I capitalized the Holocaust the first time and not the second- I was, and am, typing fast and on a laptop. Er, so sue me. Coming from a Jewish family, I had relatives who DIED in the camps, so please don't try to lecture me about the importance of the Holocaust. Ever been to Yad Vashem? I have. Go there sometime and look at the shoe; there's a powerful symbol for you.

But I stand my ground: Some people can't tell the difference between the menu and the meal. I understand the power of symbols and the proper role of respect; yet I also understand that sometimes, ideas and principles- like free speech- are even more important than symbols. Sometimes, by protecting the symbol, you destroy what the symbol stands for: Case in point, idiotic misguided "flag burning" laws and amendments. Like I said, I had relatives who died in the camps- but I also lived in the Chicago area in the 1970s, and I understand why the Nazis had the right to free speech in Skokie. Granting them that free speech was the antithesis of everything they stood for; censoring them, conversely, would be a victory for them.

As for the rest of your ramble, about posting something offensive in the video forum.. Uh, I'm not really sure what your point is. The owners of this website are perfectly within their rights to determine what sort of content they do and don't want, and more power to 'em. My point was, with regards to what has been going on in Iraq, the images aren't the outrage so much as it is the actuality behind those images. Maybe you disagree- But in my mind, the American public could use to see more of what is actually happening here, although that's one lesson the military DID learn from Vietnam- that they'd never be able to maintain public support for one of these quagmires if people were seeing raw video of it every night on the news.

[bridgit]

29. no, it's not "now Cosimo gets a free pass", that was my point all along...

you're just here to argue and that's all,

here, quoting from my orig post cause you've lost your way seen right past my Dylan ref as a starting point...a Jew!!

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.

though as yet another Jew pointed out, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest, hmmm, hmmm..."

these are not "ramblings" my friend, these are simply matters you would disagree with for the sake of argument and nothing more,

how fortunate in a very real sense you have been my would-be contrarian; to have been born within a cadre so chosen to have a G_d Who's Face cannot be gazed upon lest you go blind, and Who's Name cannot be spoken...

this conversation would be somewhat different were it to be occurring in Jerusalem centered about an artist and a Deity instead overseen by the far right-wing of the Likud party; or in Mecca overseen by Shia clerics chattering & acting out endlessly about a chocolate Mohamed, very different indeed

i will thank my father on all our behalf's from within silent prayer O8)

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Actually, I'm an atheist, discordian, and a Taoist, in addition to being a contrarian.

Just because I come from a Jewish family doesn't make me a praticioner of the Jewish religion... or a believer in anything remotely resembling the "God" of the big Western Monotheisms. I'm 'fortunate' in that I love my family, but I'm a little more ambivalent on the benefits vs. damage of the head-trip those same monotheistic religions have laid on large sections of the human race over the past several thousand years.

So here's a little Dylan for you, friend. Good day.

Now the preacher looked so baffled
When I asked him why he dressed
With twenty pounds of headlines
Stapled to his chest.
But he cursed me when I proved it to him,
Then I whispered, "Not even you can hide.
You see, you're just like me,
I hope you're satisfied."

[bridgit]

31. peace to you, friend, that is my conclusion...

Yusuf (Cat Stevens) - Peace Train - Nobel Concert 2006 :hi:

[go west young man]

34. Donahue is probably most upset not because it's an edible Jesus

but because he's dark in color. Chocolate baby!

[bridgit]

35. i'm say'n i've had it with that Donohue dude, he's over-the-top pissy and needs to take...

a deep breath like Jesus was supposed to look like Kenny Rogers on a good day puh-leeese :rofl:

[ClintonTyree]

17. "You're acting like a 5 year old"....

that about covers it. :eyes: Donahue's imaginary friend mustn't be portrayed in any fashion other than the officially Church sanctioned way. There's only one way to portray a man nailed to a cross and using chocolate as a medium isn't it. The rigidity of people like Donahue is what bothers me. Their opinions are the final word and no one has the right to another opinion. You will believe as I believe or you will spend eternity in a fiery hell. Period.

And people wonder why I totally dismiss organized religion. :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

19. I think the Chocolate Jesus looks tasty. But to me, he looks more like Robert Duvall.

Still, I don't know why it's offensive to envision Jesus made out of Chocolate... when the entire Catholic Church is based around eating Jesus- not symbolic jesus, mind you, but literal Jesus- thanks to the magic of transubstantiation... every Sunday.

[sam sarrha]

23. they are just pissed it wasn't made from WHITE chocolate..

[Warren DeMontague]

26. .

:rofl: