Question about unions

[sniffa]

I'm currently a land surveyor (will be for quite some time until I hopefully become a PLS) and I know/heard that there actually is a surveyor's union (someone told me last week that it was part of Local 7).

In my past 8+ years in the industry I've never met/heard of a single union surveyor. It seems that they are a rare breed, and maybe so because any joe will gladly work for less wages (not to mention the pirate surveyors).

Will joining (if I can) hurt me? I'm very ignorant in this matter, so I'm asking for advice.

I've been working since April on a prevailing wage job, but being paid only 39% of what I should be getting, so I'm even more eager to join, but worried if I do, I'll be out of a job in an industry that has been struggling really bad for about a year at least.

TIA

[billyoc]

1. Local 7 of what International?

I'd try Local 4 of the Operating Engineers if you're in MA.

The Ironworkers have a Local 7 in Boston, I don't think they organize surveyors, but if you call them, they'll know right away who you should call.

Solidarity

[sniffa]

2. Local 7 is the Ironworkers

I thought that was weird when I was told that.

You're right - Local 4 sounds like what the Surveyors would be under.

This is just totally new to me, so I don't know where to turn to, and I don't know if it will hurt me if I do. :/

I've been thinking about it for some time, but based on my experience, it seems that it is a death knell. Maybe, I'm wrong, so this is my thread to hopefully inform me and guide me through it.

We're really a very shat on industry in general. I'd love to have a strong union presence, as I think it's very necessary.

As I said, I'm gunning to eventually become a PLS, so I'm pretty sure once I achieve that, I'll be beyond union (Like I said, I'm ignorant on this) but I still want to be involved in getting my industry all on the same page. I think it's disgusting that we constantly work on jobs that are prevailing wage projects and are somehow excluded from getting prevailing wage.

Thanks for your response. I hope to work this out here. :hi:

[DainBramaged]

3. AFL-CIO

I think you should check with the AFL-CIO

[sniffa]

5. I will

Again, I'm so ignorant on this, so I don't know what to expect. I'm also fearful of what will come.

I know that we have a union, but it's small, and has next to no clout. I've survived the MASSIVE layoffs so I know my value, but I'm nervous if I try to join I'll be laid off as there doesn't seem to be much value placed on us (they hire anyone regardless of education or experience). :scared:

My wife (Bi-Baby) and I were just discussing this, and maybe I need to be proactive and organize the people I know (it's a very tight-knit community regardless of company) to join. Is that the way to go? Should I just go it alone and try to join the local? :shrug:

[Joesunionreview]

10. In a perfect world...

all you would need to do i get more than 50% of the working base for each contractor to sign cards to be in a union and you would be in. But, this is not a perfect world, in fact the current method is that even after more than 50% of a workforce for an employer signs a union authorization card, there is a waiting period for at least a month before a NLRB(National Labor Relations) "secret ballot" election(note: you currently need <30% signatures to get a NLRB 'secret ballot election"). Now that sound fine and dandy, but most employers then start to engage in illegal practices against the employees trying to form the union. This is including, but not limited to, physical threats, intimidation, fear, racism, discrimination, closed door meetings, union avoidance law firms entering the picture, Immigration and Customs Enforcement being called in, firing union supporters, the list goes on. Here's a story about a huge http://anti-union.blogspot.com/2008/06/ny-nonunion-construction-with-guns.html">non-union firm in New York keeping their employees from voting yes on the secret ballot.

You would first need to contact the union who would represent you and see how they think would be best to go about doing the organizing in your specific field and area.

If you haven't heard of it yet, http://anti-union.blogspot.com/2008/08/550000-sign-employee-free-choice-act.html">The Employee Free Choice Act is a bill that would make it easier for people who want to be in a union, get into a union.

If they can screw you on prevailing wage, I would be pretty certain they wouldn't hold back by trying any means necessary to stop their workers from unionizing. Another good read is from a Union Review story entitled "http://unionreview.com/think-it%2526%2523039%3Bs-easy-form-union%3F-better-think-again">Think it's easy to form a union? Better think again"

Read about the Employee Free Choice Act petition, if you like what it states sign the petition and do be afraid to tell other people about it, I feel it's the single most important piece of legislation of my entire life.

http://unionreview.com/efca">

[sniffa]

11. Thank you for the resources

and for your help here. It's greatly appreciated. :)

[Joesunionreview]

15. your welcome,

I just really hope it works out for you and yours

[Joesunionreview]

4. Yes, there are a lot of surveyors in the Engineers local

here in New York.

Why on earth are you only getting 39% of the prevailing wage? That's terrible, I write about infractions of workers all the time, that really sucks.

Last week I wrote "http://anti-union.blogspot.com/2008/08/more-blatant-discrimination-against.html">More blatant discrimination against construction workers comes to light, this time prevailing wage violations across America"

If you were in NY or California I could tell you the avenue to go with in getting whats rightfully your earnings. You may be able to go to your attorney general and sue for back wages, hopefully they would be on your side.

[bicentennial_baby]

6. One of my favorite Labor sites!!

This is Sniffa's wife, btw...I read your site regularly. Solidarity. :thumbsup:

[Joesunionreview]

8. Thank you bicentennial_baby

That means a lot to me, let me know if you 2 have any stories you want published, we can use the help. By we I mean the labor blogger community, a few close friends also run http://unionreview.com">Union Review and http://uniongal.blogspot.com/">UnionGal. We desperately need writers and commentors.

[bendygirl]

12. Joe's right

we could use more union voices in the mix.

And Joe, thanks for the note here. I've been working on a piece about Governor Strickland taking on the Republicans and big business on the prevailing rate in Ohio. Lee Fischer (the lt) is saying that the changes to the instructions is not geared toward making anyone happy. So, more of our voices to their offices on clarification of prevailing wage rates would be really helpful right now. In fact, I just posted that up on Uniongal.

[sniffa]

13. Welcome to DU

:hi:

I hope you stick around.

[Joesunionreview]

14. you having 1 post somewhere seems sooooo strange to me N/T

[sniffa]

7. At the urging of someone, I've started saving my pay stubs

They normally end up in the trash, but I started stacking them 3 weeks ago in case I finally contact the AG to get what I'm due.

The reason I'm (and my IO's) not getting what I'm due is because of slight of hand - we're on the books as "consultants" and not Field Engineers. Every day I'm working directly with the contractor for construction projects funded by the federal government, but because we're hired by the consultant to the contractor, we're not being paid as we should (via the Bacon-Davis Act?). It's a way for them to make more money. They're total maggots in general, but more so because of this. My company is complicit, but I sort of feel for them accepting this as we almost imploded over the winter thanks to the economy (which I now fully understand, guides our business). We're still just eeking by, but we're doing better than most of the local companies.

It's been a real nervous time since last fall. :scared:

[Joesunionreview]

9. Get passed the bad times if you have to...

...then take action. I would hope you get the prevailing wage. God, they try to do everything they can to eek out more profits. Screwing American families is always the end result. I wouldn't want you to lose your job over it. That pay should have been in the bidding process, maybe it even was and they are scooping up the extra profits along the line, bastards.

I would think the statue of limitations would give you some leeway to hold the job and get yourself in a better position, shoot me a message about where you are living and I can do my best to find you a union in your area who may be interested in your situation.

In solidarity,
Joe

[FEng2008]

16. Prevailing wage Local 4

Sniffa,

I too am a land surveyor. Working in Mass on many prevailing wage jobs. I would like to talk to you about your issue on the phone. It doesn't matter if you work for the G.C. or anyone else. If you are on the job you are to be paid prevailing wage. Send me an email with your contact info. FieldEng2008 at aol dot com.

[Omaha Steve]

17. Now that is a great answer

This forum is really coming together. AFSCME also has surveyors btw.

OS

[FEng2008]

18. Sniffa ...misclassified one employee as an independent contractor and failed to pay the proper wage

Bourne Construction Company to Pay $19,000 to Settle Allegations of Violating the Independent Contractor and Prevailing Wage Laws

BOSTON – Attorney General Martha Coakley’s Office has reached an agreement with the owner of a Bourne construction company to settle allegations that he misclassified one employee as an independent contractor and failed to pay the proper prevailing wage to that employee. Thomas Pappas, of Bourne, owner of Cape Cod Builders, Inc., has agreed to pay $15,000 in restitution and $2,000 in fines to settle a claim that they failed to pay the proper prevailing wage. In addition, Pappas and Cape Cod Builders will pay an additional $2,000 in fines to settle a claim that they violated the Commonwealth’s Independent Contractor/Misclassification Law.

In July 2008, the Attorney General’s Office received a complaint alleging failure to pay the correct prevailing wage rate for carpentry work performed at the Wellington Historical House Preservation Project in Waltham. Investigators from the Attorney General’s Fair Labor Division conducted a site inspection and obtained both general and certified payroll records. After a review of the records, investigators determined that one employee was misclassified as an independent contractor from March to July of 2008. As a result of the misclassification, Pappas and Cape Cod Builders were cited for violating the Independent Contractor statute and for failing to pay the prevailing wage rate. Pappas and Cape Cod Builders entered into a settlement agreement with the Attorney General’s Office in order to settle the claims.

In May 2008, Attorney General Martha Coakley’s Office issued an Advisory on the Massachusetts Independent Contractor/Misclassification Law. The Advisory provides guidance regarding the Attorney General’s interpretation and enforcement of the law. The Advisory can be found on the Attorney General’s website.

The Prevailing Wage Laws apply to all construction work performed on public works projects in Massachusetts. The Prevailing Wage Laws allow all contractors bidding on public works projects to enjoy a “level playing field” by standardizing the rate of pay the workers will earn.

Workers who believe they may have been misclassified or not paid the appropriate wages are strongly urged to call the Attorney General’s Fair Labor Hotline at [phone].

The matter was settled by Assistant Attorney General Miranda Jones, with assistance from Inspector James Kelley, both of Attorney General Coakley’s Fair Labor Division.