Conflicted. An experience just now.

[Nordmadr]

I just went down for a smoke break (I know, trying to quit) at work. I went outside, and right next to where I smoke there is a mailbox. Someone had affixed one of those "Support the Troops" magnets to the front of the mailbox. Immediately irritated, I grabbed the magnet off of the mailbox, and dropped it into the ash can next to the mailbox.

Just a couple of drags into my Marlboro I began to feel exceedingly guilty for having committed this simple act. I was torn between my absolute hatred for Bush and the mindless neocon, truth lacking, fundamentalist types that so obediently and blindly support him and my genuine appreciation for those who serve. I'm a Gulf War I Navy Vet. The magnet glared at me accusingly. So I fished into the ash can, grabbed the magnet back out, and placed it on the building window ledge instead, in a far less conspicuous spot. This made me feel better.

I guess I just wanted to share that little tidbit with my fellow DUers, and gage what the opinion is of my actions in this circumstance. Any thoughts out there?

BTW, this is true, but I'll not be offering up any $10,000 verification ala Will Pitt.
:)

Olafr

[global1]

1. Support The Troops - Impeach Bush!!!!!

mutually exclusive

[Cleita]

35. If there is a bumper sticker out there that says those words.

I want one.

[TheGunslinger]

48. Cafepress.com has it >>>

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/browse/store/liberalware.28338696


That's just one of them.




I saw a bumper sticker on a car the other day:

If you vote Bush
Your yellow ribbon
doesn't make up for it

[Cleita]

49. Thanks. I going to order one now.n/t

[stop the bleeding]

2. get a sticker that says "Support our troops.. bring them home" and place

it next to the ribbon.

[wryter2000]

5. That would be a better solution

I don't have "bring them home" magnets with me usually.

[RebelOne]

7. I have that on my car.

I also have two ribbons. One reads "U.S. Out Of Iraq," and the other "Bring Them Home."

[wryter2000]

3. I see why you're conflicted

I absolutely would have thought you were wrong if you'd taken it off the freep's private property, but in this case, I don't know. If the moran is keeping track of the magnet, he'll probably find it where you left it and retrieve it. I can sure see why it bugged you, though. Want to make a bet on whether the freep is a veteran or not?

[mzteris]

4. Go get a permanent marker

then go write BRING THEM HOME! across the "support the troops" magnet. Repost on mailbox.

There. You'll feel lots better.


O8)

[Nordmadr]

17. I was contemplating doing this as suggested, but I work here

and can't afford to make too many waves at my place of employment. As it is, I already have the Bill of Rights on my office wall, as well as a print-out of the "Patriot vs. Patriot Act" split image of Bush and Kerry.

Olafr

[Bluerthanblue]

19. put REALLY in front of the 'Support' and Bring them home' after=

I agree with you-
Support our troops isn't a clear message- it's been USED by those who support war- not our fellow brothers and sisters who (a very large majority of them) signed up not to wage pre-emptive or vengeance motivated wars, but rather with the belief that their lives would be used ONLY in times of true need- and also many who 'signed on' because it was the only option to grant them access to training that will take them beyond minimum wage jobs.

I applaud you for listening to your conscience, and for not being ashamed to share what some might find a shaming experience with others-

There is a VAST difference between genuinely 'supporting' our troops- and supporting this fuc$$d up war- But unless we continue to point that out- the notion that those who want us out of bush's foolish and deadly fiasco's are 'anti' Guard, or Soldier- will not only thrive, it will become accepted truth.

[NJmaverick]

31. OR write add to it "but not Bush!"

[tx_dem41]

6. You assumed the intentions of the person that placed it there.

As you stated, this introduced the conflict you are now experiencing.

BTW, thank you for your duty in Gulf War I. I thank any military person for their personal sacrifice. That sacrifice, if performed honorably, has nothing to do with the action that they served in.

[Nordmadr]

11. I did make an assumption, which could be incorrect.

The magnet is obviously used, and may have been pulled off someone's car by someone not supporting Bush for example, but then why place so prominently at the entrance to a government building? I also make the assumption that people displaying these stickers are Bush supporters, but I base that on personal experience. The two seem to go hand in hand.

Olafr

[Nordmadr]

8. Just wantd to clarify that it is a public mail drop box, on County

government property. Not someone's private box.

Olafr

[Caoimhe]

13. I think that is a federal crime

to affix political paraphenalia (stickers/magnets/taped flyers) to public post boxes. I'd have no problem tossing that one in the round bin. Or like a previous poster said, get a big black sharpie and add your own sentiment, then see how long it stays there.

;-)

[H2O Man]

9. Perhaps you feel guilty

because you know that was a silly thing to do. It would be best to put it back where the person placed it.

[Nordmadr]

14. My guilt I think stems from my desire not to disrespect our

service members, and not to dishonor their commitment and sacrifices.

Olafr

[YOY]

10. Marker in Permanent

"By Impeaching the President"

[MrMonk]

12. What you've told us is that you support freedom of speech.

You performed an honorable act.

[tx_dem41]

16. By suppressing the freedom of speech of the person that placed it

there? I think not. True free speech would have been to openly counter someone's opinion (in this case the placement of the sticker). That would have shown that you were proud of your viewpoint and willing to openly have it criticized in the court of public opinion.

[Nordmadr]

20. I am proud of my view point, but did not feel proud for dumping

the magnet in the ash can, where it was still visible, so I pulled it out. However, given this is government office property, and a train station to boot, I do not feel that it is the place to be displaying this magnet. I do see your point about the free speech issue, and had the person been there affixing the magnet while I was present, I very likley would have voiced my opinion on the matter. As it was, I was alone. Right or wrong, I will not put the magnet back however.

huh...1000th post on this.

Olafr

[Divernan]

21. He supported free speech by replacing the magnet.

and not leaving it in the trashcan. So I wouldn't say he suppressed free speech. And free speech or no, it is against the law to put messages such as these on a mailbox.

[renie408]

23. No, he did not replace it. He moved it to a less conspicuous place, whic

is still an impediment to free speech. Obscuring viewpoints is just as much a censership as prohibiting them. Isn't this what we bitch about every day? That the MSM ignores more progressive viewpoints or only mentions them in passing; in effect, obscuring them to the general populace? The only statement removing/moving the magnet made was "I am too immature to debate my interpretation of your magnet, so I will hide it."

[Nordmadr]

25. Posted wrong spot, see main thread. N/T

[renie408]

22. I agree. IMO, removing the magnet did not change or effect anything

and seems kind of childish and wrong.

[Nordmadr]

24. Thanks for your honest opinion. I expected some to agree

and some not to. While I do not consider myself childish, it may have been wrong. As I stated, I see the idea behind the supression of free speech, but I am not sure it applies in this circumstance.

In my opinion, the change it affected was by me realizing that initially, I reacted emotionally, and next, in my mind I reacted honorably, if not belatedly. It made me think about that. That conclusion may be incorrect, but at the moment, it is still the conclusion I have. That said, I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again.

Olafr

[SoFlaJet]

15. We pretty much ALL support the troops

what we DON'T like is how it's used to justify the actions by this regime-the people with Bush/ Cheney stickers on their cars and those who can never admit any wrongdoing by these creeps.

[davsand]

18. Support for our troops does NOT equal support for the regime, IMO.

Frankly, if we are being totally honest, support for our troops really has little to DO with most administrations given the American history of screwing our vets and our active duty people...

A lot of people have linked support for our people with support for the polices put forth by our administration, and that is a terrible mistake to make, IMO. I hate the thought because given the nature of this particular conflict, I seriously worry that our vets will face (yet again!) the same sort of treatment that the Viet Nam vets got.

I hate the thought of anyone repeating the mistakes of previous wars, yet we are seeing it happen in both the Peace Movement and in the folks who are using this issue as a way to show support for the current administration. The ones made to suffer will be the very same people that we all are trying to "support."

You cared enough to serve, Olafr, and the fact that you are so torn shows that you STILL care. Bless you for that, and bless you for being so torn. I wish I could offer more than that, but I have no other answers.



Laura

[Nordmadr]

26. Ok, update: Having read the comments here,

and thought about it a bit more. I took a piece of scrap paper that I use here for notes to myself, and I wrote in all caps "BRING THEM HOME!!" in black magic marker. I went back downstairs and placed the magnet, which was still on the window ledge, next to the mailbox, along a metal wall border NEXT to the mailbox. It is not quite as prominent, but still VERY visible. Either way, I don't think it should be on the mailbox.

I will not surpress anyone's free speech.

However, I don't have a problem modifying an untattended message in a public place. I'll keep the group updated as to whether or not either stay for long.

Olafr

[uppityperson]

41. Good thing to add.

[johnfunk]

27. Quit smoking -- you CAN do it!

Consider the extra years of ripping right-wing stickers and magnets off of public placews the reward!

Now, I haven't stripped any surfaces of empty gesture bumper stickers; my revenge was slapping an "I gave to the USO" bumper sticker on the back of my Prius.

[Nordmadr]

30. I'm working on it...but boy do I become a cranky bastard now when

I don't have them. Well, I'm a cranky bastard anyway so...

My car has my DU sticker.

One that says in BIG red letters "Bush Lied Thoudands Died".

Another "Unlimited Growth in a Limited World is NOT a sign of success".

...and finally "Tis the times plague when madmen lead the blind". (Shakespeare)

My "Spitzer 2006" sticker wore off from snow and rain.

The car is my PRIVATE property. I'll sticker it anyway I choose. If I can be bombarded with constant advertising...

I'll likely get fingered for this immediately.

Olafr

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Next time, replace it with this one:

[Nordmadr]

29. Nice! N/T

[blonndee]

36. I have that one on my car!!! n/t

[mwb970]

32. I wonder how the actual troops feel about the magnets and ribbons.

Do they even know about them? I don't see how putting a magnet on your SUV supports the troops, but then again I don't own an SUV (or a "troops" magnet).

I supported the troops this year by sending a sizeable contribution to the USO. It was more expensive than a magnet, but I think it accomplishes more.

[Nordmadr]

33. As of 3:00 PM, both magnet and note still intact. N/T

[Nordmadr]

37. When I left at 4:30 today, it was still there, Which totally amzed me.

It is a high traffic area, in a heavily Republican county.

Olafr

...and I did feel better for having put it back, even with my message update.

[Toots]

34. Don't let them claim the military as theirs.

That yellow ribbon is in fact more Liberal than Conservative because we really do support the troops. We want them safe and used when only absolutely necessary to save America from attack. Be proud of that yellow ribbon and think of it as a Liberal cause even if Freepers seem to think it belongs to them. They buy the ribbon but we support the premise....We raise holy hell when our troops are in danger especially when it is for ill defined reasons....It is because we know how important our military truly is that we wish them kept safe and fit. We depend upon them for our entire being and we don't want them abused as is the current situation.

[boobooday]

38. You know, they want everything

They want the symbols too.

Your impulse was not disrespectful to the troops. The magnet is, when it is apparently a substitute for real support (i.e. a sane military policy and Commander in Chief) for the citizens who serve in the military.

[proud patriot]

39. I support our Troops , It's bush I can't stand

[ddeclue]

40. Simple solution...

So much of these "ribbons" are just plain patronizing and moral superiority.

Don't trash their ribbons..get one of your own.

There are Democratic themed ribbons you can get that are excellent parodies of the wing nut ribbons..

I've got one on my truck that is red white and blue and says "Just Pretend Everything is OK"

It's hilarious and really pops those wing nuts balloon when they see me go down the road.

Doug D.

[baby_mouse]

42. It's a magnet. I don't think it's that big a deal. nt

[Mutley]

43. Buying some cheap made in China magnet

is in no way supporting the troops. Even if the money from the magnets went to the troops in some way (which it doesn't) the money has already been spent and trashing the magnet won't change anything. A case could be made for destruction of private property perhaps, but the person left the magnet on a public mailbox, so...

You could always get one that says, Bring Them Home and put it up next to the Support the Troops magnet.

[Nordmadr]

45. See post 26. N/T

[Mutley]

46. I posted before I read the whole thread...

I tend to do that to keep my opinion pure. But good job. :thumbsup:

[Jamastiene]

44. It's the feeling of powerlessness coupled with

misplaced agression, maybe? We can't very well tell Bush or his cronies how we feel, because he is threatened by any one of us who would like to talk to him, so we feel powerless to voice our opinion where it will be heard. His worshippers use those types of magnets and stickers to support him, not the troops. Deep down, we know that. Add all that up and stir and maybe my take on what you did isn't so off.

Then again, that's just my take.

[Nordmadr]

47. I do not deny that my reaction was, at least in part, one of frustration

which stems from feeling somewhat helpless. I hate that. I also understand that in the end, what I finally ended up doing, see post 26, was a small gesture and relatively inconsequential in the grand scheme of things...but a million small gestures...

It mattered to me, so I shared it. It may matter very little or not at all to most others. It is what it is. Seeing that modification as I left work though, made me feel like I had done SOMETHING, and that I had done something without trouncing upon someone else's rights. I took note of and thought about those comments as well.

Olafr