If Dems don't filibuster, they are sending us a clear signal

[Tsiyu]

The message is: We are on our own.

I hope that they do not send this message. Send whatever good vibe you survive on to our Dem senators, and send an Insight vibe of your choosing to the Republican senators participating in this slap-to-the-face to our Constitution.

These hearings are a farce. Alito needs therapy, not more power. If the senators choose this sick, sexist, sociopathic NeoCon to lord over us legally, we will know that the last shreds of courage and integrity were vacuumed up by a cleaning lady in the Senate months ago.

[Bluebear]

1. Hear, hear. nt

[hang a left]

2. Right On!!!

As far as I am concerned, it is their LAST damn chance. NO TO ALITO!

[bettyellen]

3. thank you buddy, K+R

[Erika]

4. Agreed 100%

If the dems allow this nomination, it means they are one with the GOP in the culture of corruption and overturning our freedoms, especially womens.

[lyonn]

5. First all the Dems on the committee must vote no

There are 10 Repubs and 8 Dems. Surely the dems will vote no?

Then off to the Senate floor for the vote. We can only hope for a real show. Alito's remarks today were not that shinny. The gods might be smiling on us tomorrow and the great man might step in it. He is quite proud of himself.

Our proud 8 better hammer the s-it out of him on the issues. They have had time to get the script right and trap him tomorrow.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. I agree

I'll be sending as much energy as I can and praying. :hug: :cry:

[AuntiBush]

72. Same Here - Agree 110 Percent

Sending as much energy as I have left from these crooks, liars & thieves!

And praying, too... :( Here, let me cry with you while the last shred of democracy hangs on a thin-shred.

:cry::cry::cry:

[NanceGreggs]

7. K & R'd!

It's now or never. Show 'em, or fold 'em.

[Swamp Rat]

8. If the Dems don't filibuster,

we are FUCKED! ... for generations!

[Tsiyu]

10. Boa Noite, o meu irmao

Sad times for sure. :cry:

[AuntiBush]

73. They Might As Well Fold, & Go Home.

What would be the point.

Screwed, doomed, F-ed. You name it and you're right, Swamp Rat - now, and for many generations to follow.

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[f-bush]

9. Good Job!! Well Written!!

[TacticalPeek]

11. They must enforce a filibuster-to the degree you can do that in the Senate

If the dems will not stop Alito, what will they stop?

:shrug:



He certainly looks as if he is easily manipulated.

[zapp]

12. We are standing at the Brink. Period.

If this guy gets in, we can kiss any vestige of judicial decency goodbye. Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts will recreate America. And, that, my friends, is not being dramatic.

[Erika]

15. Goodbye America - Hello Christian extremist theocrats

if this happens. But we will not allow them to do so even if it means civil war, expecially when it comes to women's rights. We'll quite politely rip their eyes and hearts out.

[Jax]

13. "alito needs therapy, not more power"

this says it all.

Democratic representatives, you must listen now.

[Rainscents]

14. Yes, you're right... This will be do or die for America!

Dem's MUST filibuster Alito!!! If they don't I'll NEVER support them again!

[RagingInMiami]

16. They sent us a clear signal long ago

If they filibuster, it will be surprising. If they don't, it will be business as usual.

[robbedvoter]

37. I agree. Jan 6 2001 - I read it loud and clear.

[KnowerOfLogic]

107. Yeah, pretty much. They've been rolling over ever since. nt

[leftstreet]

17. Amen!

[fooj]

18. "We are on our own."

God. I hate the way that sounds.

:scared:

[Peter Frank]

19. Then there's the larger picture...

There will be no filibuster. Leading Dems know that it's still time to keep the powder dry while the RW does a great job of cannibalizing itself.

DeLay is toast, Miers is toast, SS reform is toast. Abramoff hangs over the GOP like the sword of Damocles. Moderate Republicans know that the '06 elections hang on reform. Their voices were slimed, squelched and trivialized by this admin -- now their muted voices may be the only thing that can save the GOP.

Here's the deal. Americans hate arrogance (regardless of source). It's far better to report where absolute power is corrupting absolutely -- than to slow the process toward failure by calling for the gallows ..thereby creating a sympathy which could prolong the life of the regime.

We can nudge along the process of the GOP hanging itself, but if we strike too forcefully right now -- the battle will be prolonged ...nobody wants this.

[Raster]

21. Diamonds are Forever?

[Peter Frank]

28. NO...

The "Right" is shooting itself in the foot now. The emperor's new suit of clothes is becoming transparent to all but the most strident of his base.

If the Dems pile on with a filibuster right now, they give ammunition to BushCo at its weakest point; and prolong the battle.

No one wants these traitors out of office more than me. They've run roughshod over everything about America that I hold dear.

[Cults4Bush]

40. So how do we get rid of Alito after they have finished shooting themselves

in the foot and have shot themselves in the head. Because foot shooting is not going to kill this beast. Your viewpoint is only one and like anyones view on the future is still theory. It cant be a matter of political expedience to let this man go through. He cant be removed after his appointed. It stacks the bench with righties and that means our laws will become more theocratic, more friendly to corpos and in general more harsh on the overall people.

I dont see them giving bushco ammo in this at all. We deserve to have a judge that isn't so blatantly anti-constitution or are you ready to throw that all away just because you get this feeling that maybe bush might get an empathy point or two if we filibuster? I for one am not. Some battles are harder than others time to suck it up and try to save democracy and quit waiting for these guys to shoot themselves in the head.

[MadHound]

43. Oh please friend, the Dems have been keeping their powder dry so long

That they've forgotten where they put it, and one just hopes that it hasn't degraded. Please, now is exactly the time for a filibuster. The Republicans are on the ropes, as is Bushco. Too many fires breaking out that they can't put them out. Pile on the fuel and make those flames into bonfires.

Don't you get it yet? If Alito is allowed in, there will be a majority on the court whose highest priority is to beef up the Executive Wing's power to the point that Bushco will be a perpetual dictatorship, not to be taken from power without a civil war. The Democrats won't have another chance to stop this madness, nor will they have the luxury of watching Republicans hang themselves. Instead, we will all witness the spectre of fascism truly arise in this country, and Congress and the Democratic party will become irrelevant.

This is our last best chance to put a halt to Bushco's generations long grab for ultimate power. Their syncophants are mired in scandal, their nominal leader is involved in scandal, if now is not the time to strike, when is?

And quite frankly, if the Dems don't filibuster this absurb and obscene nominee, then I will never vote for them again, for they will be exhibiting a terminal case of spinelessness, and their actions will confirm once and forever that they are indeed a willing partner in this two party/same corporate master system of government.

[pberq]

116. I second this post - this is it right now

[FogerRox]

118. I agree Madhound-- we are up against the wall

Alito will put the crown on GWBs head

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

122. The Dem's powder is drier than the dust on Harriet Miers' pussy.

Ah-choo!

[Surya Gayatri]

36. OK, but the

impact of this particular SCOTUS appointment will be felt long after all of these other players have disappeared from the stage. Alito will be able to wreak havoc on the Constitution for decades to come. SG

[alarimer]

38. So we allow this right wing asshole to get on the court?

Giving him the authority to make women essentially chattel and destroying the Bill of Rights? Women's rights should not be so easily surrendered as a part of "strategy". There is principle at stake here. You are as bad as any Republican for saying this.

[Strawman]

44. Yes, lets keep our powder dry

And after we regain power, lets keep our powder dry then too because the American people won't really like what we want to do. All the MSM pundits say so.

Why should ever spend our precious political capital? Protecting those constitutional rights might cost us in the polls! Come to think of it we would have been better off to keep our powder dry during the Civil Rights movement. Nudging that along too forcefully cost us the South.
:sarcasm:

[AuntiBush]

74. Doesn't Alito Have Past Comment View On the New Deal?

Need to find the link. Read it a week back. He's against SS, reportedly.

[stepnw1f]

75. You Realize What's on the Line Here, Right?

We are talking about our rights being taken away from us, a one party government... essentially a totalitarian govt. This possibility is more than just any possibility. We know what this guy stands for, and we know who his support stands for.

I disagree with playing politics with people's civil liberties. Another reason why America isn't waking up, is because political games like these marginalizes the urgency that is there.

[CrispyQ]

84. Arghh! When do you suggest we strike forcefully, if not now?

This isn't a position that can be voted out in 4-6 years! This man can influence American law for decades! You're proposing we let them destroy everything good & decent about this country before we strike back? I don't understand where you are coming from, along with a good number of our Democratic leaders.

[cally]

97. I disagree...hold the powder dry for what?

So the Dems can gain power? I don't believe it will work because it will anger their base. I support Dems to defeat abuse of power. If they can't do that then why should we donate, volunteer, and support them. Further, if the Repubs go nuclear then it will hurt them. America is waking up to the fact that the Repubs have absolute power and absolute power corrupts. Americans will not like changing the rules to promote a RW zealot.

[MisterP]

109. " 'Keeping the powder dry'? Then that's how our checks will stay."

[high density]

103. Time to light the powder

Sorry, I disagree with your statement. If Alito makes it through, the GOP wins immediately and America loses for the next couple of decades. The GOP's self destruction can't happen fast enough to do anything to Alito, especially with the lame news media we have today.

The only thing that's going to have any chance at stopping Alito, short of Bush stepping down, is a filibuster by the Democrats. I know the media is going to try to shred them when they filibuster, but the Democrats can't worry about pleasing those corrupt media conglomerates and the GOP shills employed by them. In my opinion, history is going to reflect quite badly on the Democratic party if they do not TRY EVERYTHING to stop this fascist from getting on the court.

[FogerRox]

117. Alito can put the crown on Georges head

Alito will prolong the life of the Regime

[Zenlitened]

124. "Keep the powder dry." That's a policy for cowards.

And has led us all to ruin.

[Dr Fate]

129. Yeah- let's keep our powder puffs nice and dry.

[autorank]

20. In the spirit of January 6, 2005, I dearly hope that they do.

That was the day, absent Boxer's reception to the House challengers, we could have lost the entire party. Two successive cases of voter suppression (2000,2004) with out a peep - well we got one protest and the party did not collapse (it would have, btw).

So here we are. I totally agree with the poster. I thought, well, this is a premature speculation. It isn't. It's just the facts.

There will be hell to pay in the party base if they let this clown through. He should be defeated at all costs. They CAN do that. Just put a hold on the sucker as the last resort. It works and they won't trash that tradition lightly.

Personally, I think a clear agenda item is to impeach every Federal bench appointment Bush made once election fraud is demonstrated to the majority of the population, which simply relies on the story being covered...every single one of them. Judge Abner Mikva, retired, a distinguished jurist agrees with me, btw. He said so right after *'s sElection.

Thanks for prodding me to think the unthinkable.

[fooj]

25. Take a look at this...

Alito and his EXXON-MOBILE stock that was "bequested" to him the DAY of his nomination!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2359803&mesg_id=2359803

FYI.

Peace.

[autorank]

26. Everybody take a look at "fooj's" link above. Alito-$100k Exxon stock

gift a week ago. Quelle coincidence!

[fooj]

30. 161K is a lot of loot!

Peace.

[autorank]

102. Must have filled every pocket in his suit. He needs a fanny pack.

[KittyWampus]

67. Oh dear. It just always gets worse. IMO,the Democrats are fools to allow

Alito to get any further then hearings.

[Burning Water]

59. Who is

Judge Abner Mikva? I would enjoy reading his comments. Thanks.

[autorank]

60. An honest man....

http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people/Mikva/mikva-con0.html

That's just something quick but it's a good interview. This guy actually tells the truth.

:hi:

[Burning Water]

62. thanks n/t

[liberalla]

130. Excellent suggestion

Thanks autorank!

"Personally, I think a clear agenda item is to impeach every Federal bench appointment Bush made once election fraud is demonstrated to the majority of the population, which simply relies on the story being covered...every single one of them. Judge Abner Mikva, retired, a distinguished jurist agrees with me, btw. He said so right after *'s sElection."

I like the sound of that. Something to look forward to. Honestly, once it is clear they took power fraudulently, there is so much that should be studied and evaluated for possible "correction".

Everything needs to held up to the light and inspected... and REVERSED if need be.

EVERYTHING.

[autorank]

139. Thanks. We are as one. Welcome to DU!!!

It's time to take it to the wall. The only way to stop tyranny is to prevail and we will prevail.

:hi:

[AlecBGreen]

22. amen

fight FIGHT F - I - G - H - T

Dont give in Dems...This one is for all the marbles...

[Tsiyu]

23. Thank you all for the recs

I am aiming for Plan A: the filibuster.

Stay tuned for Plan B...:patriot:

[Nutmegger]

24. Our Dems must not...

show their spinelessness when it comes to Alito. Alito is the reason why the minority filibusters. Of course, I'm waiting for Dr. Schiavo to pull the "nuclear option" out of his doctor's bag. You know that's what it'll come to, remember the spring? OMG, up or down vote blah blah blah blah blah. Brown and Owens now have lifetime appointments! BARF! :puke:

[Tsiyu]

27. So let them try it.

Delay's been pushed down. Frist has shut his trap. What the hell?

If they let this go, they are telling us to get ready for Fascism.

[EFerrari]

29. We have been on our own since the DLC caved to the cabal in 2000.

But, the party has a rare opportunity to matter here.

I hope they use it.

[Triana]

31. Agreed. If they don't filibuster they need to be replaced (n/t)

[jarnocan]

32. Consortium News has an interesting piece

"If Samuel Alito wins confirmation to the U.S. Supreme Court, George W. Bush may
have secured a majority to endorse his view of unlimited presidential powers for
the duration of the War on Terror. While much focus is on Alito providing the
swing vote to eliminate abortion rights, his elevation to the High Court also
might mark the point of no return toward a United States dominated by an
autocratic Executive with the power to cast aside the Constitution."

For the full story on this moment of truth for American democracy, go to
Consortiumnews.com at http://www.consortiumnews.com .

[mopaul]

33. i agree, if the majority let this guy through, they've blown it

[Donald Ian Rankin]

34. No, it isn't.

The message is "We think that filibustering would be a tactical error".

If there was any possibility of preventing Alito's appointment, I think that doing everything possible to do so would definately be the right thing to do.

There isn't.

As such, the question is nothing to do with "spine" or "not surrendering". The only dimensions of the issue that matter are "which decision is likely to lead to more Democrats winning election in 06"? and "is it worth preserving the filibuster for future use"?.

It may be that on those criteria filibustering is the right decision, but to accuse those who oppose it of cowardice is foolish.

[alarimer]

39. Fuck that shit; it's war

This asshole will subject women to second-class citizen status and I for one am unwilling to give up my rights for "strategy". If he gets it, I will NEVER vote for another Democrat as long as I live. The Hell with them.

[durablend]

41. Exactly!

If they're not going to put up a fight for something as important as this, why in the hell should they expect anyone to vote for them come November? Just on the off chance that the GOP will implode onto itself? (yeah right--not with corporate America and the corporate media shilling 24/7 overtime)

We keep whining that others keep saying "Well I in't gonna vote for no do nothing Dem"

In this case, they're right!

The only options are "NO!", filibuster, or drop dead

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. But fighting wouldn't do any good.

Are you saying a) that you think that if the Democrats fight it is possible that they may stop Alito being confirmed, or b) that fighting and losing, presumably to the "Nuclear option", would benefit the cause of left-wing politics in America?

It may well be possible to make a case for b), but I'm afraid I definately disagree with a).

If the Democrats had a chance of achieving something by fighting, I'd agree with you that it was certainly the right thing to do, but they don't. As such it may be, but it's purely a matter of tactics, not the life-or-death issue you're making it out to be. I'm afraid it's death-or-death.

The options are "filibuster and lose, and Alito will be confirmed" or "don't filibuster, and Alito will be confirmed". It's far from clear which of those would be better.

[durablend]

50. Great--time to pack it up and move on then

Hell, why bother fighting for anything? Like I said, that's just the attitude that'll SURELY get those votes to roll in for us come November. :sarcasm:

[cascadiance]

58. If they KNOW they are going to lose, then they should RESIGN now!

They will be then acknowledging that they are worthless and incompetent! A team down by two touchdowns with the ball and 2 minutes to go in a game probably knows that they aren't likely to win a game, but that doesn't mean they should stop trying. Some teams CAN win in those situations, and DO win in those situations, with the right combination of skill and luck! A congressman that doesn't fight for my views, no matter what the odds doesn't deserve to have office in my opinion. Methinks they are serving their corporate sponsors under the table more than they are serving us, their constituents, with unstated agendas!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

69. That team doesn't have anything to lose by going on trying.

The Democrats in government do, to wit the possibility of retaking the House and Senate in 06. I'm *not* necessarily saying that that end is nor best served by opposing Alito, but that's the grounds to take the decision on, not macho nonsense about "cowardice" or "standing up to them".

And in my view, a Congressman who *does* fight for their views, on every issue, using every weapon at their disposal, all the time, without regard to the long-term effect of doing so or willingness to compromise (although compromise isn't the issue here, at all), will a) achieve less than one who picks their fights and b) not remain a Congressman for long except in a very safe seat, and will help unseat others.

The aim is to make the world a better place, not just to look good. Opposing Alito would be gesture politics, nothing more. It *is* possible that that gesture would do more harm than good, but it's still only a gesture, and the hatred being poured on Democrats who think it's inadvisable is disgusting.

[cascadiance]

71. The key though is what PEOPLE want vs. what special interests want...

The problem we have is that the Democrats have been notoriously "do nothing" and very hesitant in taking principled stands on these issues from my point of view, NOT always because they are concerned about taking positions on "lesser" issues working against them with the PEOPLE's vote, but taking positions on these "lesser issues" that work against them in getting special interests campaign dollars. The problem is, they don't have a clear set of people that they serve (since the voters vote them in, but the special interests pay their campaign bills). When you have two different groups of people you answer to, who often have very different wishes, you get trapped into doing NOTHING and being noncommital to stay in office. But if you are doing NOTHING and staying in office, you only serve those on the other side that are actively doing something that supports a constituency that more overlaps the corporate special interests wishes, or at least don't care that they get passed.

This isn't a moderate vs. left Democrat issue (or trying to appeal to moderate voters). It is trying to keep from doing anything against the special interests that pay their bills. It makes us as the Democratic constituency job that much harder, since we can't KNOW what our collective wishes are as much as those special interests can who buy their influence with money. I still say that doing things like fillibustering and taking stands WILL get them more votes from people that feel they are being abandoned (and I believe those are people that are BOTH from the left AND the middle).

This has happened on issues on the Iraqi War, abortion issues, economic issues such as social security and tax breaks, etc. which many polls show that Americans are taking a majority view opposite what these guys are "afraid" of taking stances on. If a majority of people support these viewpoints, then why aren't these congress critters more stridently supporting these viewpoints? It's because they don't CARE about what a majority of Americans care about. They care about what their contributors care about and their ability to keep us the voters confused in the process so that we don't stridently vote against them.

The time to fillibuster a candidate, if there ever was one, is NOW! Do it and get votes, even if you might lose some support in your campaign contributors. The people will eventually make up that difference if they see YOU make a difference, congress critter!

[Vincardog]

112. To all those who say opposing Alito is a hopeless cause I say

BULLSHIT. Why do we have any representation? To represent us. Any body who votes to approve this FASCIST shill who believes that the pResident can and should unilaterally decide what laws apply should resign their post and just kiss aWoL's A$$.

If not now WHEN? If the filibuster forces the FASCISTs to illegally and unconstitutionally declare a Nuklar option the real Democrats should WALK OUT. Shut it down. DO NOTHING TO COOPERATE WITH THE Jack Booted thugs.

[sendero]

87. I disagree...

... Dems have the chance to show they are willing to FIGHT for SOMETHING. Right now, the public perception is, and fairly so, that they have rolled over and let Bush have his way.

Secondly, if the Reps DARE to use the Nuclear Option, they will live to regret that one day. And believe me, they know it and it is NOT a given that they would actually do it.

No, if the Dem senate cannot find the spine to stop this, then what? Really, it is do or die time here. It really is.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

133. Well, those are at least potentially reasonable arguments.

If it is the case that making a gesture of opposition would win votes, then it would probably be a good thing; I'm not a good enough political forecaster when it comes to the US to answer that one. However, this is a purely tactical decision, and disagreeing with it does not justify all the insults I've been seeing heaped on those who oppose the filibuster.

And *if* the Republicans didn't dare to use the Nuclear option then a filibuster would actually achieve something, and therefor be worthwhile whether it was popular or not, but I think this unlikely, I'm afraid. If it were the case then it arguably *would* justify the insults, but as I've said, I think it unlikely - it would be extremely out of character for the current administration to hold back or compromise.

[sendero]

135. Like everyone else...

.... Republicans are brave when they are sure that there will be no consequence for their reckless actions.

If they use the Nuclear Option, they will, and this is a near certainty, have that precedent shoved up their collective asses by a future Dem senate. They are not above bluffing, that is part of the political process.

And with all the scandals floating around, a Dem senate is no longer a total pipe dream, still a stretch I'll admit, but not impossible.

Remember, politically, the Reps were in a lot better shape the last time they rattled the "nuclear option" sabre. Things are not looking so good for them now. Now is the time for the Dem senate to stand up and say "we are going to do everything in our power to stop this administration from packing the courts with idealogues bent on destroying basic rights we've all come to take for granted".

And then do it, do everything they can.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. Yes.

When Alito gets in, he will probably be a very bad thing. You are going to lose some of your rights. I'm not denying any of that. What I'm saying is that there's nothing that can be done about it. Unwilling or not, you don't have a choice, and nor do the Senate or House Democrats.

It is tempting to say "fight". But there is no course of action that the Democrats can take that will stop Alito being confirmed. Fighting might make you feel better, but it wouldn't preserve your rights.

If, as you say, you will never vote for another Democrat if he gets in, then you will never vote for another Democrat. I think this would be a shame, because it reduces the chance that the *next* time a justice like Alito comes up for confirmation it may be possible to stop him. That's the most we can hope for at this stage.

[durablend]

45. WTF?

If, as you say, you will never vote for another Democrat if he gets in, then you will never vote for another Democrat. I think this would be a shame, because it reduces the chance that the *next* time a justice like Alito comes up for confirmation it may be possible to stop him.

So they're going to let Alito get a pass but "somehow" in the future decide that somebody else needs to be stopped? So I guess we wait for someone that advocates ritual killings on live television to decide "enough is enough"? Or will that be enough? Can't risk wasting that powder keg, you know

:eyes:

[MadHound]

49. My, what a defeatist attitude that is

Sure, filibuster may not be sustainable, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL YOU TRY IT. It is high time the Dems stood up and fought. My God, we have scandals breaking out all over, Bushco's popularity is low as a snake's belly, support for the war is falling away like sand through your fingers, this is absolutely the perfect time for Dems to stand up and fight. Yet you're saying that they shouldn't? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, when is the time then?

I'm fucking sick and goddamn tired of this give in, roll over and piss on themselves attitude that Dems have been exhibiting during this misadministration's reign. "We can't impeach because we're in the minority" Got news for you, the Dems were in the minority when they racked Nixon up on the Watergate pole. "We can't filibuster because we're in the minority, and anyway, they might launch the nuclear option" Well first of all, if the Dems exhibited some leadership and kept all of their party members together, they would be able to have a successful filibuster. Second of all, bring on the goddamn nuke option! Do it! DO IT!! JUST FUCKING DO IT!!! Show the entire country how little respect the Republicans have for our society, our government, our Constitution. Do it and then let the Dems scream from the bully pulpit. That will, in conjunction with the rest of the scandalous shit, purge our government of a Republican majority and Republican power for a generation, for despite all the accusations and stereotypes bandied about around here, the vast majority of Americans believe in fair play, a level playing field, rights for the minority, and the Constitution.

The time is here, the call is clear. It is time for every single Democrat in Congress to gird their loins and fight like there is no tommorrow. Because quite frankly if Alito gets in, there will be no tommorrow for democracy in this country. The rubberstamp Supreme Court will approve every single move that Bushco makes, and we will quickly become a fascist dictatorship as Bushco grabs more and more power for himself. You want to see Bush leave in '08? You want honest elections to continue in this country? Then the time to fight for those is here and now. This is the battle, and damnit, it is time for the Democrats to fight. If they don't, then what the fuck good are they?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

70. I prefer the word "realistic".

The Republicans have the power to force Alito through whenever they choose; I think hoping that they won't is pressing optimism further than one is justified in doing so.

I think the "show the country how little respect the Republicans have for our society" is one at least worth considering, as opposed to the "stand up and find" machismo I've been hearing a lot of.

My worry, and the reason I think it's *probably* (although not certainly) a bad tactic to make a gesture of trying to filibuster Alito (which is all it would be) it that it might well be possible for the Republicans to present it as being the Democrats stymying Democracy, and them taking measures they are justified in doing to protect the will of the majority, or something to that effect.

You ask "what good are they". The answer is "not much, not could they be". That's what being a minority in a democracy means. They can make a difference on issues where the Republicans split, and they can make gestures, but that's all. What they *are* is an investment for the future: the more of them there are, the more likely that after 06 or 08 they will be able to influence things again.

[MadHound]

76. Geez, with your logic we might as well shoot ourselves now

And get it over with.

Get this friend, there are 44 Democratic Senators in office. Three more than is needed to keep a filibuster going, got that. Therefore, if those Dem Senators would stick together, they could successfully filibuster Alito. They could also get on the bully pulpit of television and explain just exactly why they're doing this filibuster, exactly just what kind of threat Alito is to our Democracy.

As for as the 'Pugs screaming that the Democrats are impeding Democracy, sorry, but I don't think most people feel that way. The last time I saw the issue come up last year, the vast majority of people did NOT want to do away with the filibuster. The American public likes it, accepts it, and sees the need for it. And quite frankly, as far as shutting the government down goes, most people's attitude would be "Good, they can't do any harm when they're not doing anything".

Sorry, but I find such attitudes disgusting and infuriating. Just because we're the minority doesn't mean we're powerless. Hell, the Republicans were so damn powerless during the past twenty years they were able to shape national policy, change the political landscape, and impeach a sitting president. Frankly it is time to shut the fuck up about what we can't do, and go out and start doing what needs to be done, starting with Alito. Anything else is simply selling the American Public and this country down the river to the fascists and corporate thieves.

[Zenlitened]

126. Excellent post.

:applause:

[depakid]

80. The Republicans have the power to force???

And just how do you figure that?

This whole "bad tactic" thing is just an apology for cowardice.

My prediction is that if the Dems refuse to filibuster- and hold their party togther THROUGH SERIOUS SANCTIONS AGAINST THOSE WHO CROSS OVER- then they can kiss 2006 goodbye.

Like the last 6 election where they tried to appease the extreme right.

I can't think of any reason to vote for the Democratic party as a whole anymore- and there are tens of millions JUST LIKE ME.

Who wants to vote for an ineffectual party- a bunch of losers who can't even stand up for the vast majority of their members- much less ordinary Americans?

[mvd]

88. I agree

And remember, we played nice with Roberts. That gives us leverage if they call the filibuster partisan. I think Alito must be filibustered as it appears he's even worse than Scalia on civil liberties. We can't keep saying "next time" - you'll never do anything that way. If the Repukes do the nuclear option, that would help to get our base energized IMO. Their base is already energized, so I don't see what more the nuclear option could do for them.

[depakid]

91. If the Repubs go nuke- we shut down the Senate

A majority will back Harry Reid if he carries out his earlier threat (which he ended up looking like a fool over). And before any apologist calls out obstructionist- remember that the Republicans shut down Congress over a LOT less than this.

Did it cost them a congressional election. LOL- NO.

If the Dems punt on this one- with Alito's ethics on the table- that's pretty much that. The base is demoralized, the fence sitters stay home and Congress remains Republican despite the implosion.

[mvd]

92. That's a good reminder of what the Repukes did

Hope the Democratic leaders think the same way. :thumbsup:

[tedzbear]

127. Hell, the Democrats fear of fillibustering is one of the main reasons I...

...re registered Green Party. Maybe if they do this fillibuster and go down fighting if need be, I might consider voting Democrat again come November.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

131. Apology for cowardice?

What the hell is it you think I'm frightened of?

And what makes you think you know my motives better than I do myself?

The reason I'm saying I think filibustering may be a bad tactic is because I think it may be a bad tactic. Cowardice has nothing to do with it.

[Iowa]

101. I get what you're saying...

However, there are times when being "realistic" just doesn't cut it. Sometimes you fight to keep the flame alive. Furthermore, I'd submit that we're in this mess partly because of WAY too much scheming, planning, and strategizing. There's no strategy to consider when fighting evil. There's no waiting for the right moment. You just stand up and say "NO". Evil is relentless, and fighting it is a full-time endeavor that never ends. It requires everything we've got. Just being right is incredibly powerful - but only if the power is used relentlessly.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cocoa]

52. I disagree

I think it's unreasonable to rule out the possibility of Alito being stopped, in fact I think Alito and Bush are probably expecting it.

[glitch]

55. Fighters fight even when winning is not a certainty.

Even a loss can be a win, but only if you fight.

Rollovers are NEVER wins and since no one likes a rollover, they don't mitigate their loss either.

[Zenlitened]

125. Y'know, satire is supposed to be a bit more subtle than that.

:rofl:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

132. Sigh

Laugh. Laugh all you like. You won't be laughing so loudly when Alito gets confirmed, regardless of whether the Democrats try to filibuster him or not, and you'll be laughing on the other side of your face if having been cast as obstuctionists (remember, the Republican attack that all the Democrats do is say no has been playing well with a worryingly high fraction of the American electorate) prevents the Democrats retaking the House or the Senate in '06.

[durablend]

134. Whatever...

You're delusional to think that we're going to regain anything by sitting on our hands doing nothing. So there's two options--we filibuster and get labeled as obstructionist or do nothing and fade into total irrelevance.

[Zenlitened]

136. Your whole premise is based on fear. It warps your argument...

... into irrelevence from the very start.

Basing our actions on what the pukes will whine about is pure cowardice.

[sweetm2475]

56. i agree with you mostly, but please don't forget that....

if the dems don't have enough votes to sustain a filibuster, and don't get me wrong, enough votes or not they damn well better try, but if they try and fail, or get "nuked" by Frist, you can't blame that on ALL the dems. sure there will be a select few that fuck it up for everybody, there always are. but to turn your back on all of them...all i'm saying is that there are some dems up there that try again and again to fight the fight and it's usually a handful that screw it up for everyone. those democrats (and i'm not mentioning any names Lieberman) should be voted out in the primaries. so please take that anger (and you have every right to be angry, i get angry about this shit on a daily basis) and use it to support progressive candidates in the PRIMARIES. that's the only way to solve the problems we have with certain democrats who have lost their way or their minds or both. just not showing up when it's time to vote will just hand our country over to the fundie nutjob flying monkey right wing freaks on a silver platter and all of us will spend the rest of our lives here on DU bitching about how much everything sucks. and as much as i love all of my fellow DUers, i would rather be sitting here talking about how we took our country back. peace.

[toymachines]

35. We cannot let the SCOTUS slip

its gone too far already

[Walt Starr]

46. If not Alito, then who? If not now, then when?

You are 100% correct.

[durablend]

48. SHHHHHH! We're gonna let the repukes implode on themselves

Given the influence of the corporate media and corporate America, it should only take around 99 years to happen (of course the USA will be a big hole in the ground by then)

Then you watch those votes roll in!

:sarcasm:

[Tsiyu]

65. Word

SCOTUS confirmees, unlike presidents, are FOREVER

[Cocoa]

53. if they don't filibuster, it's because a filibuster isn't warranted

and I think it's unlikely in any event. I think Alito deserves to be and will be filibustered.

[sweetm2475]

54. agreed...K&R n/t

[cascadiance]

57. Yup, "We the People" is now replaced with "We the Corporations"!

[Tsiyu]

61. Do we just want to be polite?

Um......uh.....scuse me? I

hope.....I'm............um.........not.........ruffling

um, um, any....................................feathers?

Polite will not win seats this year. the Republicans are the ones who are being unreasonable. if the Dems filibuster LET ME GET THIS OUT THERE LOUD AND CLEAR:::::::

AMERICA WILL BE FORCED TO LOOK AT ALITO'S RECORD AND WILL UNDERSTAND WHY THE DEMS ARE FILIBUSTERING.

In light of Abramoff and Delay and the NSA (there's a country song there somewhere):shrug: the American public will not faint if things come to a standtrill over this issue. It's time to stop for a goldurned minute.

[goclark]

63. You got that right,speak!

I listened to that pompous fool this morning.

He is lying through his ugly teeth, feeding us words that were put in his mouth.

Do I have this part right...He said GW had to follow the LAW with the NSA issue.

So,if Scalito gets on the court, can he say that he had his fingers crossed when he said it and let Georgie slide?

I think the answer is YES!

[Tsiyu]

64. This administration has pulled off so much horror

and made so much $$$$$$$$$$$$$ burning the skin off of babies and soldiers and closing down health clinics and polluting our air and putting burdens on schools they cannot carry and decimating the environment and trying to put limits on women's rights all over this country.

And we think ** nominated this racist geek out of any set of principles or any loyalty to our Constitution?

If he is confirmed, I, as a teeny little woman, will not be able to buy so much as a condom in a few years.

I will fight to my death for the Constitution. If the Dems don't filibuster I will only view them as cowards from this day forward.

[Czolgosz]

66. We need to filibuster, but more importantly, we must unanimously vote NO!

22 Democratic Senators voted "YES" on Roberts whose record is not long enough to definitively confirm whether or not he is as extreme as Alito (but I fear he is). Notwithstanding Roberts's questionable ethics on his failure to recuse himself (he decided a key detainee case in favor of the Bush administration while he was in the middle of undisclosed job-interviews with the Bush administration) and his extremist views on the commerce clause (he thinks Congress lacks the authority to enforce the Endangered Species Act), half of the Democrats voted in favor of Roberts.

We MUST achieve Democratic unanimity going onto the filibuster.

[greiner3]

68. From what I've heard;

This hack should not have been nominated in the first place. It's a slap in our faces. F the nuclear option. Filabuster all the way on this guy. The repugs are down and will only go further. I'm sure that we cannot hold out for 3 years, but there are other options.

[mom cat]

77. I wholeheartedly agree.

[durablend]

78. Filibuster or DIE!

Only acceptable response to the question of should Alito be appointed is NO!

[SnoopDog]

79. We are on our own independent of the filibuster...

Our government, all of our government save about 10 people, are on the side of the coup.

I am afraid of what they will do to us and how many of us will die protecting our Constution...

[AtomicKitten]

81. Hey, I've got an idea. Let's wait and see what they do

before summarily shit-canning the entire Democratic Party.

But if that's what you really intend to do anyway, why hide behind this being the straw that broke the camel's back?

[DemBones DemBones]

82. What have the Dems done in recent years to inspire

your faith in them?

I've been a registered Democrat since 1968 and I think the Dems have shitcanned themselves. They don't care what happens because they're all rich enough to survive whatever crap the GOP comes up with. They may even have bunkers that would allow them to survive a nuclear war. The rest of us are on our own.

[AtomicKitten]

85. everything John Conyers does inspires me -- Al Gore's speeches inspire me

[DemBones DemBones]

94. Sure, a FEW individual Dems make good speeches, even

do good things, as Conyers has. But I'm talking about the Party leadership and Dems in Congress as a group. They've been spineless for years. There's really just one party now: the Wealth Party.

[Idioteque]

83. My guess is, if Reid can get 40 no votes, there will be a filibuster...

...it's useless if more than 5 democrats vote aye. Reid should force a cloture vote anyway. They shouldn't make this easy for the Republicans.

[AtomicKitten]

86. I think they can and will do it.

The Abramoff scandal will weaken the Repubs so much, I dare Frist to pull the "nuclear option."

[Southern Male]

89. No reason to filibuster

All these angry folks claiming they won't vote Democrat again are lying and their Congressman knows it. There are only two parties and it will be really hard to create a 3rd. You will vote for the Dems again, just because you hate the Republicans. Therefore, there is no incentive to force a filibuster if they think they are going to lose anyway. Congressmen can count. They know they won't lose your vote, but they could easily lose moderate votes by appearing obstructionist. Right or wrong, the liberal base just doesn't have any credible ability to threaten their Congressmen over this one...and they know it.

[leftstreet]

93. How do you know they're "lying?"

You must be very young. If you'd been around long enough to experience the right-ward march of the Dem party, away from labor, you'd be ready to stop voting for them.

[durablend]

96. Hey, you forgot to welcome him to DU

Though I don't think he'll be sticking around long :evilgrin:

[leftstreet]

100. Oh. Where are my manners?

:P

[DemBones DemBones]

95. You forget that we don't have to vote.

Of course I won't vote GOP but I won't vote for a half-assed Dem again. It's not worth my time and gas money to go to the polls, especially since I think the voting machines are rigged anyway.

[bettyellen]

98. people stay home when the candidates don't act on their priciples....

and where my time and money goes this fall depends directly on how the reps respond to this.
i'd rather give $$ 1/2 the country away to boxer or feingold than give a penny to hillary or another sellout.

[buddysmellgood]

90. Repubs can only lose by going nookyoular.

[Deja Q]

99. I know OJ would be found innocent. As for Alito?

Dunno. My gut is telling me there will be no filibuster. But I've never been good at guessing WHAT people do. They're still people.

If he's put in then we'll have to hope he's true on what he says.

And I'll be more hard-pressed to vote, since I'd rather spend the time poking my goolies with sharp rusty nails. Or even getting jiggy with a chick, ya dig? (but I'd be productive and spend the time learning something to maintain my usefulness to some degree.)

[Vincardog]

104. Not to Dems stand up or stand down. NOW

[KnowerOfLogic]

105. They sent that message a LONG time ago. nt

[Julius Civitatus]

106. Damn yeah! Recommended! -- n/t

[jackpan1260]

108. The only clear message they sending if they don't filibuster

is that they don't want to filibuster.

I may not agree with that descision, but I will never be a single issue voter

[Tomee450]

110. Don't hold your breath.

The Democrats aren't going to filibuster. I haven't even bothered to look at the hearings because I already know the outcome. The Democrats will roll over, as usual.

[Cocoa]

111. people have said that before

and been wrong.

Elaborate confident predictions (declarations really) that the dems wouldn't filibuster Estrada, then when they did filibuster Estrada the reaction was one of "too little too late."

[pstans]

113. Randi Rhodes had it right on her show today

John Roberts confirmation shows that Corporate interests will be represented.
Alito's confirmation would show the power of the government. She then went over all of the cases where Alito ruled in favor of the government and then said a ridiculously high stat on the # of cases where Alito ruled in favor of the government.

What do you have when you have a strong central government and powerful Corporations?

Fascism anyone?

[Canuckistanian]

114. I'm listening to Randi right now

And yes, I agree. This confirmation would close the circle.

Supreme executive power combined with all-powerful corporate interests.

Mussolini would be proud.

[Tsiyu]

115. Thanks to those who understand courage and expediency

It really won't matter how many Dem seats we gain this year if we have an executive branch that makes all of those congrespeople moot.

The Constitution is clear: NO ONE PERSON can decide the fate of the Republic. The Founders knew that there would be times when Americans might support a tyrant, and they made provisions and CLEARLY stated that the executive branch was to be no more nor less of a force than the judicial and legislative. Why is it so hard to understand that an ideology which places the President in the position of DICTATOR is absolutely the REVERSE of what the framers desired?

NO SINGLE MAN CAN BE TRUSTED TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THIS NATION. If Alito believes one man can, he is a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO DEMOCRACY.

Alito's appointment will lead to civil war, IMO. The common man understands more than he is given credit for, and the common man is going to revolt - history bears this out - when conditions become unbearable. We know with Alito that conditions WILL become unbearable.

So give the common man some credit - he will be proud that the Dems stood up to the warmongering, murderous, bloodthirsty Repukes. And MORE not fewer dems will be the result. IMHO, of course.

[FogerRox]

120. now or never

if Alito is stopped, BUSH will be 0 for 2. Yes I know IF

But if he is stopped-- We end up smelling like rose-- DEMS will pictured as taking action-- doing something-- DEMs will have given a reason to vote for them in NOV. Then we can deal with BUSH CO.

[radio4progressives]

119. The Dems will Filibuster and be "Nuked" - Alito will be confirmed without

the Dems...

UNLESS - Repukes become American once again, and en masse protest the Alito based on the civil liberties issue alone.

What needs to happen is that the "normal" republicans who don't associate themselves with the freepers, or the dominionists, or the Heritage Foundation front will have to do a massive protest against Alito's appointmnet, but I don't see that happening.

I'm hearing about a few republicans protesting but they're not getting any press like the anti-Harrison faction did.

[Tom Joad]

121. Always support the cleaning lady. She (and her co-workers) will lead us.

[gulfcoastliberal]

123. K&R - I'd like to hear DLC groupthink now. Here, DLC, DLC, DLC. Come out!

:shrug:

no takers? no bentleys?

[JCMach1]

128. It will shock me if they fillibuster...

I don't think they have the spine.

[oneoftheboys]

137. On the other hand, if they filibuster and lose...

the will send the entire nation a clear signal. A signal of weakness.

The flip side of the coin is this: If the Republicans vote to change the rules and lose, the reverse will apply.

Stay tuned...

[yurbud]

138. Primary challengers or third party?

[Gloria]

140. When I called Sen Bingaman's office yesterday about Alito

I told them that they better work damned hard to stop Alito and that while they were playing footsie with this Administration for the last 5 years, it was time to stop because they better look at what their base was doing...getting fed up at not having an opposition party. I said I was on the verge of "de-registering" as a Democrat and going back to my Independent status. They guy on the other end said, "You're not the only one."

I hear Biden told Wolfie today that there would probably be NO filibuster......

Thanks

[LibertyorDeath]

141. We are on our own.