So Mike Malloy came out and said the NY Times reporter was killed by

[RagingInMiami]

Dick Cheney and John Negroponte.

David Rosenbaum was killed in one of DC's "better neighborhoods" but it took 22 minutes for an ambulance to arrive. A dark sedan was seen speeding away. He has been critical of Bush in his articles.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/09/AR2006010901245.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/09/AR2006010901342.html

[fooj]

1. Didn't someone get attacked with a baseball bat in their driveway

about a month or so ago. Someone heading a Committee...I can't recall.

Peace.

[BrotherBuzz]

11. Senate staffer Emilia DiSanto

FBI called in on Hill
By Bob Cusack and Jackie Kucinich 

The FBI and Capitol Police are investigating the vicious attack of a top Senate staffer at her home last week amid concerns that the assault might be related to her work on the Finance Committee.

Emilia DiSanto, chief investigator for committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), arrived at her suburban Virginia home after work Wednesday about 6:30 p.m. As she was unloading belongings from her car, a 6-foot-1-inch white man dressed in black struck her repeatedly with an unidentified object believed to be a baseball bat.

<more>

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/110805/news1.html

[fooj]

14. Thanks.

"unidentified object believed to be a baseball bat."

Wow.

[happydreams]

45. 6' -1" is pretty damn specific.

:shrug:

[BrotherBuzz]

47. Conversely, wearing a hood and black gloves is kinda vague

Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) is chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, one of several committees investigating the Abramoff scandal. From 2001 to 2004, Grassley received over $62,000 in donations from groups related to the scandal. In March 2002 he sent a letter to Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton opposing the Jena casino. In April he received a donation of $1000 from Abramoff's firm. "Curiouser and curiouser!" cried Alice

:shrug:

[NanceGreggs]

2. With Abramoff now 'busy' with other matters ...

... who has the 'Whack' contract in D.C. these days?

Oh, I just answered my own question: It was probably a no-bid contract that went directly to Halliburton.

[WCGreen]

3. It's a subsidary....

knee caps are us.....

[NanceGreggs]

5. KCAU Inc. ...

... has a nice sleezy-corporate ring to it, n'est pas?

[tridim]

4. I wasn't going to bring it up, but since Mike did..

Yea, that sounds logical. However, we'll probably never know the truth because there were no witnesses.

[RagingInMiami]

7. I just hope Mike doesn't go through the same fate

[benburch]

48. Mike has a concealed carry permit.

And a nice .32 snub revolver...

[RagingInMiami]

54. Good for him

[FredUptoHere]

56. but once you feel the barrel up against the back of your neck-

it's a little late to reach for yours.

and they generally use .22's

[DS1]

65. Hey, that's smart

You DO think before you post sometimes, yes? :eyes:

[benburch]

66. He talks about it on the air.

So, yes I do think first.

[DS1]

67. Okay, then I defer my pointed tongue towards him

He shouldn't talk about it. Now if someone comes to 'off' him, they'll likely be wearing a vest.

[benburch]

72. I hope they have armored heads...

Because I am sure Mike knows enough to go for a head shot.

[donco6]

50. Remember Denver radio personality Alan Berg.

Murdered by white supremacists.

http://www.wfmu.org/LCD/GreatDJ/berg.html

[cantstandbush]

43. OK, I'll bite. Was there anything that Rosenbaum had on Abramhoff?

This all sounds so suspicious.

[Emit]

44. He wrote a few articles about Abramoff

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:KJszgffaWFEJ:www.accd.edu/sac/gov/berrier/2302/%24500.html+Jack+Abramoff%27s+success+is+a+reminder+that+lobbying+is+more+profitable+than+ever.&hl=en

More noted in this thread:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Ie2OlHf4BeQJ:www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php%3Faz%3Dview_all%26address%3D364x85360+DAVID+E.+ROSENBAUM+&hl=en

[Stephanie]

68. your second link doesn't work - here is a list of his recent articles >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=91245

[mirandapriestly]

6. "he was pursuing free lance projects" after retiring.

hmm, I wonder what he was working on? This article says they are interesting in talking to the men in the dark sedan, but that they are "not suspects".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060109/ap_on_re_us/journalist_attacked

[RagingInMiami]

8. They say they are not "suspects"

But I'm sure they are "persons of interest", which is police talk for suspecting someone, but not coming out and saying it until you have some type of evidence because otherwise, it will get you sued.

[mirandapriestly]

20. yup.....nt

[Swamp Rat]

9. Business as usual

[shance]

10. Looks like journalists confronting this Administration need to

come together.

Seems they would benefit from creating an organization perhaps that is like that of Sibel Edmonds & CO. that is a whistle blower group. Perhaps they could be an offset of the National Whistleblowers Association?

[Surya Gayatri]

22. Yeah, it's beginning to sound

as though journalists need some sort of 'buddy' system to keep track of each other for self-preservation. This criminal regime will stop at nothing to keep their ill-gotten gains. SG:grr:

[lala_rawraw]

23. More importantly, readers need to protect their journos

if they want a real fourth estate... against smears, discrediting rumors, and attacks... you cannot ask journos to protect you if you ae not going to protect them... not you as in YOU, but the general you. in fact, someone should write a pledge to protect those of us in the front lines, have everyone on DU sign it and post it for reference.

[Surya Gayatri]

27. Hear, Hear, lala

The Fourth Estate has been hounded into hiding or commercialized into corrupt irrelevance. Intrepid and independent journalists are the FIRST and foremost quarantor of our civil freedoms. An informed and thoughtful electorate can only come about through their efforts. Why don't you draft that pledge? I'd sign on in a second. SG

[shance]

34. Great idea Lala** What would such a pledge's mission or message be?

Perhaps it could be a joint pledge for citizens and journalists.

Or perhaps a petition?

[lala_rawraw]

38. well, and I can do more on this later... busy week...

But I would start with the following:

1). Smears used against journalist to discredit a story (for example using the straw-man and then knocking it down, or fabricating rumors about the journalist and not addressing the facts of a story) will not be tolerated. Any such attacks will activate an automatic "prove it or shut it" reaction (faith in your journos).

2). Correcting the record whenever you can on misrepresentations. For example, I cannot tell you how many people said we reported that there would be 22 indictments, which we never did. Yet people keep saying it over and over to the point where even MSM statements have said that about the story. So, correcting the record whenever you see the misrepresentation.

those are two to start with:)

[applegrove]

12. I'm sorry. But what is the crime rate in Washington DC. A member of the

elite gets killed and all of a sudden it is an issue. This is a tradgedy. So is the crime rate in many cities in the US.

[RagingInMiami]

13. Yes, we should forget about it and move on

Nothing to see hear, folks. Keep moving.

[applegrove]

15. No. It is a tradgedy. And we should talk about that. And the real meaning

of it. That crime makes cities unliveable for many - and at times hits the priviledged. And if you have a relationship with this journalist or the NYTimes - talk about that.

Sounds like he was a victim perhaps of stereo-typing. That is an issue. Why they thought he was drunk. That is part of it too.

[savemefromdumbya]

49. really?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RebelOne]

21. Also, Applegrove, use the spell check.

It's tragedy.

[applegrove]

36. Sorry. Thread above yours deleted. I'm just saying wait for the facts

before people go all Rove & Cheney did it.

It is sad enough that he didn't get the help he needed - for 20 minutes. We should be collecting facts and discussing the meaning of that - based on the facts we know.

Just asking for discernment.

[jbnow]

40. All the articles in MSM

talked about this being an area with a very low crime rate. Even very few muggings and violent crime about unheard of.

That doesn't mean this was some plot, but wanted to point that out.

[applegrove]

57. Not a plot. Follow the story. The video tapes of all the swanky stores

nearby will be in the hands of the police. They will find the creeps who did this.

[autorank]

16. Think of one of the very nicest neighborhoods in your city or town.

That's where this happened.

The real stereotyping about DC is to think that it's unsafe everywhere. If you go into DC to buy drugs, it is very unsafe, extremely. If you are fooling around in a very few neighborhoods, it is very unsafe. Otherwise the crime rate is very low. As a matter of fact, the murder rate almost halved a number of years ago when one major drug lord was taken off the streets. For the most part, DC is very safe.

This neighborhood has a crime rate as low as any town people live in on this service.

Now, having said that, can something like this happen in this neighborhood. Yes, but it's extremely unlikely. Just like it would be where you live unless the assailant and victim knew each other and, again, even that would be extremely unlikely.

Let's wait and see what happens but don't stereotype DC or any other city as monolithic. When you have .5 million people spread out, it's not all one thing.

[autorank]

18. More on this neighborhood. It's really nice

It's in the area of Ft. Reno Park, American University. NorthWest DC, very safe. I went to a map. So, WTF is the question. Multiple explanations but AmericaBolg, which I think is great, was wrong. This wasn't in a loft area. It was in an area with detached, single family homes in DC...do you know how much those homes cost...buckets of dough. So, street crime in DC is not the cause of this. It's a murder in one of the cities most epxensive neighborhoods.

[druidity33]

26. hmmm...

I believe something could very well be fishy, but to play the devil's advocate here i gotta say... i've never been one, but i've known thieves and been mugged twice. Thieves TARGET upscale neighborhoods ON PURPOSE... especially for a "simple mugging". Poorer people tend to fight for the meager amount they have or run, whereas "rich" people just tend to give up the cash. I was mugged in broad daylight at 2 in the afternoon on Park Ave directly in front of a prominent Bank, he even pistolwhipped me on the back... street crime can truly happen ANYWHERE people and these are harder times for the poorest of us. Like i said, i wouldn't put it past them, but i think we're reaching a little here.


...little bathroom stickers...

[Carni]

28. You're forgetting something

The affluent neighborhoods have more police protection--I don't know what this was (as far as who did it) but I would lay odds it wasn't garden variety street thugs looking for a guy's wallet.

[autorank]

33. Lots of questions open on this one. We need to know what his project

was if there was one. That might be helpful. It's a shame when anyone gets mugged and killed, whatever the reason. Hope they catch the perps, try them in Virginia (you get your sentence plus five years automatic if you have a gun!).

[autorank]

32. I agree that upscale 'hoods are targets. Just commenting on the DC area.

I'd seen someone elsewhere talk about high price condos in poor neighborhoods. From the map I saw, this one, which I'm familiar with, is extremely placid. It's a stretch. The real outrage is the 22 minute delay in emergency help. That's pure DC. They've been working on that problem since '91. The message, don't get sick in DC unless your're at a hospital.

Your picture of condi is priceless!

[stickdog]

41. Do they target affluent neighborhoods for MURDER?

:eyes:

If the reason they went to the neighborhood was because "rich people give up cash without a fight," why the fuck did they beat the guy to death?

What crime are you more likely to go to jail for, assaulting someone in a very rich neighboorhood or assaulting someone in a less rich neigborhood?

[druidity33]

46. well, no...

But, beaten to death could mean a whack on the head and a fall to the pavement for an older fellow... like i said, "devil's advocate" here, I was pistolwhipped in broad daylight ON PARK AVE. Sometimes to a thief, the percieved "higher take" is worth the risk, as for the MURDER thing, don't you think you're jumping to conclusions here? What, not a fan of Law & Order and CSI?

Oh and hey... don't you roll your eyes at me.

:beer:

[stickdog]

58. Come on. NOBODY SAW WHO DID IT, but the culprit(s) still left

the victim -- who you contend was KILLED FOR HIS WALLET -- with his expensive watch and wedding band.

Do you also believe that voter fraud is a bigger threat to our democracy than fraud-o-matic black box voting machines?

[druidity33]

61. like I said...

I was mugged and pistolwhipped in broad daylight and "nobody saw who did it" on PARK AVE in NYC. The first time i was mugged was in Buffalo. The thief in that instance ran when he heard a sound behind him... it was a stray cat jumping from a dumpster. He managed to get my wallet, but not my passport or pocket watch... again, i think everyone is jumping to conclusions here. Be patient, find out what the guy was working on, find out who's investigating the case, find out how many times he was struck... i'm not saying it wasn't deliberate, i'm just saying that like everything else, i'm skeptical until i see some support for your "theory". Achem's Razor seems appropriate here.
As for the wedding ring, how long was he married? Both my dad and brother are pretty much unable to remove their wedding rings... maybe that had something to do with it.

"Do you also believe that voter fraud is a bigger threat to our democracy than fraud-o-matic black box voting machines?"

How is this analagous to anything? The only way i can see is that I am using logic and reason to determine a preliminary assessment of this NYT reporter tragedy as well as our voting rights. That being said logic and reason tell me that nearly OUR ENTIRE SYSTEM IS BROKEN, it's not just the fault of the machines (though fixing that problem should be first on our to do list). This is no Luddite statement, but i think we should BAN ALL VOTING MACHINES and make EVERYONE vote on paper. Ach not time left, must go to work...
Peace.


...little bathroom stickers...

[stickdog]

63. Of course, it could CONCEIVABLY have been just a random mugging.

However, what's more likely:

1) a NY Times reporter is randomly murdered for his wallet in DC in a posh neighborhood where street murders are unheard of and street mugging are very rare, and:

a) nobody suspicious or out-of-place is seen by anyone in the insular neighborhood,
b) the assailants manage to leave little or no trace that their victim they just murdered was assaulted in any way,
c) the assailants take the victim's wallet but leave behind his expensive watch and ring, and
d) the only ambulance dispatched to the scene takes 22 minutes to arrive because, for some unknown reason, it's dispatched from the other side of DC

OR

2) a mob organization reeling because of a slew of recent negative press reports (the most damaging of which was published by the victim's employer along with several recently penned by the victim himself) flexes its muscles to send a little message to anybody else who doesn't have the good sense to continue suppressing all of the other incriminating stories they've been sitting on

???

What makes you require a higher standard of proof for the more likely scenario than for the less likely scenario?

[druidity33]

71. whoah there...

I'm NOT saying that one scenario is more LIKELY than the other, just that both are PLAUSIBLE. There may even be a thread of involvement we're not aware of... leading to non-mafia ties, or mafia to gov't, etc.

"What makes you require a higher standard of proof for the more likely scenario than for the less likely scenario?"

As far as i know no one has offered proof of anything one way or the other... no one has even cited crime statistics from the area in question. It's easier for me to focus on the things I KNOW have been corrupted than the things that i'd be SPECULATING on. I'll wait for an industrious blogger to blow the lid off this and keep my ears/eyes open for someone who's digging up facts... until then i will continue to think of this "mugging" as a suspicious tragedy. That being said, i think this will unwind (or not) when the 22 minute ambulance response time is investigated. If this was a rich neighborhood, it undoubtedly had better service than other areas of DC and if evidence is to be found, my hunch is that this is where it is.
Good luck.

[bluecycle]

60. Why would buying drugs be dangerous ...

Why would gang banger attack their own customers??? They rely on those people coming back for more blow and heroin.

[EFerrari]

17. This morning I counted three threads about journalists being

attacked by these criminals. There was the "bomb al Jazeera" plan, there was the Iraqi documentarian that was hooded and had his tape taken this weekend, and then this story.

That guy in the dark sedan sure gets around. :eyes:

[suziedemocrat]

24. And the Italian Journalist whose car was sprayed with bullets in Iraq.

My brother said - with this new Administration you either get:
- Bought Off,
- Knocked Off
- or Blackmailed.

You could make a parlor game guessing who fits in which category. I'll put Hillary in the Blackmailed camp.

[EFerrari]

25. Your brother is right. They've outmobbed the mob.

They make Vito Corleone look like Shirley Temple.

When I figured out election theft, I thought: if your government is acting as if it isn't accountable to you, it probably isn't.

The corollary for the press may be: if the press is acting as if it's afraid to report the news, it probably is.

[glitch]

30. Well said. Simple enough terms for everybody to understand. nt

[katinmn]

31. And possibly Jill Carroll who was kidnapped in Iraq on Saturday

The news was suppressed by AP and others till today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=85319&mesg_id=96156

[WilliamPitt]

29. From what I've seen, his work was pretty pro-administration

so that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Google him up yourself and make up your mind.

I got mugged on election night last year. Guy tossed a brick at my head. It wasn't a 'hit,' wasn't Negroponte, but a junkie kid attacking someone whose back was turned.

It happens.

[RagingInMiami]

37. Way to throw cold water on the latest conspiracy theory

But seriously, I did a quick google on him last night as well as a nexis search, and not a whole lot came up on him. Either he wasn't doing a lot of writing lately, or his articles weren't getting posted on nexis. There was also a lot of shared bylines.

Most what I read was just your routine news stories that could have been written from a press release.

My OP was in response from the conversation Malloy was having with another caller, who was acting as if he had a lot more insight than I did. I posted it because I always like to hear what other DUers think.

But now doing a deeper search, I see there was a column he wrote that I can only read if I pay the NY Times, where he asks whether Bush is a liar. From the criticism I found online, including Slate, Rosenbaum concluded that bush wasn't a liar when he lead us into war because he actually believed his lie -- if that makes any sense. Below is the Slate article.

By the way, good job on the Randi Rhodes Show today. What was it, "He wouldn't piss on a democrat to put out a fire"? Good one.

http://www.slate.com/id/2084730/

[staticstopper]

39. What time at night

And were there two? (sorry btw) My b-friend and nephew were both mugged and it was from the front and by a single thug. And both were after 11pm.

Was it in a tucked away side street and not near a larger intersection, did they get back into a car?

He was a high-up DC based NYT reporter who had recently retired, that IMO made him dangerous, no paycheck to take away from him, he might spill the beans on internal weirdness in the papers organization in regards to certain silences and means to sources.

I'm sure it could have been something random, but we should not "wait for the investigation" to speculate...he might become just another statistic (of course not to his family and co-workers) and the story gets dropped.

[stickdog]

42. There hasn't been a homicide in the entire area for years.

Look at the guy's MOST RECENT articles:

Alito Memo In '84 Favored Immunity For Top Officials, December 23 -- ADAM LIPTAK and DAVID E. ROSENBAUM

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/politicsspecial1/24alito.html?ex=1137042000&en=1f4f072f4031c96f&ei=5070

The attorney general should be immune from lawsuits over illegal wiretaps, Samuel A. Alito Jr., President Bush's Supreme Court nominee, wrote in a 1984 memorandum as a government lawyer in the Reagan administration.

The memorandum, made public today by the National Archives, offered recommendations concerning a lawsuit against a former attorney general, John N. Mitchell, over a wiretap he had authorized in 1970 without a court's permission. The government had been investigating a plot to destroy underground utility tunnels in Washington and to kidnap Henry Kissinger, the national security adviser.

Fight In House For White House Files On Katrina, December 8 -- DAVID E. ROSENBAUM

DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 403 WORDS -A new battle over Congressional access to White House files broke out Wednesday over the response to Hurricane Katrina. Mainly at issue is how President Bush and his chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., responded when they received the first news from Louisiana and Mississippi of dire conditions....

New Twist in Texas Districting Dispute, December 3 --- DAVID E. ROSENBAUM AND ERIC LICHTBLAU

DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 929 WORDS -The Justice Department acknowledged on Friday that top officials had overruled a determination by its civil rights staff in 2003 that a Congressional redistricting plan for Texas, advantageous to Republicans, would violate the voting rights law. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales defended approval of the plan, ...

Politics As Usual, And Then Some, November 20 -- DAVID E. ROSENBAUM

In the category of "the weekend's least surprising news," the Times' David Rosenbaum revealed that the current administration has a striking proclivity to pursue certain political goals even when they contradict some of the available facts.

[FogerRox]

52. Will-- talk to an/some editors from the Times- I did

What David Rosenbaum did write ot didnt write, is not the issue.

What is at issue-- IMHO - is Jim Hatfields 2000 "Fortunate Son" by St Martins Press-- Bush was busted for 7 #s of Coke-- ten did court mandated COmmunity Service. Hatfield died- IIRC early 2001.

Author of Iran Contra COke story in SAn Jose Mercury Press. Last year Suicide-- 2 shots to the head.

In this situation David Rosenbaum did nothing to the Bush family-- but the TImes did. SO if this was a hit-- I think it was-- it sends a message to the brass @ The Times.

[autorank]

55. This is pretty scary stuff!

That is the question isn't it.

:hi:

[Imagevision]

35. Queston is, who's next ... how many will get dead to silence media...!

[savemefromdumbya]

51. they have up on the anthrax?

kind of messy I suppose?

[Doctor_J]

53. This one will be solved right after the anthrax bombers are apprehended

on the 12th....of never.

[bluecycle]

59. The Brown Shirts ...

The Brown Shirts are starting to make their presensce known. These are the beginnings of the fascist takeover.

[Freddie Stubbs]

62. Cheney controls the ambulances in DC?

:shrug:

[Clara T]

64. Here's a few Questions

- Knocking someone out and then robbing them is an extremely odd method of mugging isn't it?

- The assault makes a big spectacle out of the mugging doesn't it?

- Muggers generally approach you from the front, show a weapon or claim to have one, and demand that valuables be turned over, don't they?

- Is it also possible that he thought he was meeting someone on the street?

- Isn't it an odd coincidence that Rosenbaum’s final Times piece, published in late December, revealed that Samuel Alito Jr., Bush’s Supreme Court nominee, had written a 1984 memorandum as a government lawyer in the Reagan administration “arguing that top officials should not be subject to lawsuits in any in circumstances, including when they knowingly violated the law" and he is murdered on the day of Alito's confirmation hearings? Isn't that a great way to 'send a message'?

-Is it possible Rosenbaum could or was going to reveal some of the secrets behind the odd relationship of the Times to the Bush Administration such as holding stories of extreme national importance back for a year or what was behind the campaign of lies told by the Times to help the Bush Administration trick the American people into the attack on Iraq?

Nobody disputes that he was murdered. The only dispute is why. The circumstances suggest something other than a robbery motive.

[boobooday]

69. Terrorism

Intimidation.

Really sad.

"He was pursuing freelance projects."

Mike is probably right.

[FlaGranny]

70. I'm really inclined to believe

this was most probably a violent mugging, but, I must say that I hope the cops are having a similar discussion to the things being said in this thread. I'd hate to have the cops say it was just a mugging and not investigate further. I want the cops who investigate crimes to consider all angles. I'm glad some of you here are not the DC cops.

:-)