Angry and Furious at the Collaborationist Democrats

[Marleyb]

I don't understand. An hour after I saw the Times "scoop" on the Bush illegal wiretapping plan, I wrote that it was clearly illegal and unconstitutional.

But as it now turns out, dozens of politicians, as well as the New York Times knew about the surveillance plan and did nothing.

Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, and Senator Jay Rockefeller, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, a man known for some sensitivity to civil liberties infringements, and a substantial number of congressmen, plus the New York Times, all knew of Bush's illegal spying.

Pelosi, Rockefeller, and several other congressmen "confidentially" expressed concern but did nothing. Nothing.

Not a peep.

Why? It is totally obvious, (1) that the FISA statute specifically prohibits what the President did, and (2) that the congressional permission to use force to fight overseas does not permit illegal surveillance.

You need not be a lawyer to know that it's illegal--anyone who can read or understand English can see the plain language of the statute and the military force authorization. Why didn't Pelosi, Rockefeller and the others take a closer look at the illegal surveillance?...

n truth, Pelosi, Rockefeller, and the New York Times collaborated with Bush for four years to ignore the Constitution. No one did anything on behalf of the millions of Americans being surveyed. At the end of the day, no one tried to stop it or even examine it. That says a great deal about our politicians' commitment to democracy and the Constitution.

by Martin Garbus
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0109-23.htm

http://benfrank.net/impeach/

[AntiCoup2K4]

1. Better be careful...

Some people on this board really hate it when you point out the truth about their so-called "leaders".

[seabeyond]

3. but it isnt the truth. it is a part of the story, missing the jest

provide the truth, and i can go with you on this. rockefeller couldnt say anything. he COULD NOT say anything to anyone. i dont know the specifics, but if you are really looking for the truth do the research. if it is about the truth, why doesnt it talk about the letter rockefeller immediately hand wrote and sent to cheney and put copy into his safe, for later times, when he would be able to say something. if it were really truth you were after, that you are suggesting we have a problem with, why isnt that part of the situation talked about in the op.

please tell me.

[Marleyb]

5. well, we all know the truth about the spying now...

and still...nothing...what are they waiting for?

How about we let them know that we'll forgive em if they do the right thing now! Everyone is watching and they still aren't following the constitution which they were sworn to uphold which clearly states that they must impeach Bush for his crimes against this country.

[seabeyond]

7. forgive them for what? forgive who?

i dont forgive bush whether he admit it or not. i want him prosecuted or at least kicked out of office. i want the repugs and others that are saying what bush is doing ok to be voted out. there have been dems that have spoken out against nsa. a lot of dems have. and they will continue. we also had the christmas break which stopped it all. it will all start up again. mroe has to develop on this and it will. who am i forgiving?

pelosi and rockefeller made strong statements. the others in the house and senate didnt know about it, wasnt told about it.

what am i forgiving?

[Marleyb]

8. talk is cheap

I want them to call for the immediate impeachment of Bush NOW! No more covering for the Bush cabal's asses. They have been doing it for far too long.

If they begin to hold Bush accountable, by deeds not words, we can start to forgive them for enabling this slide into facism.

[shraby]

10. No matter how many Dems call for impeachment,

it is still in the hands of the Republicans. They are in the majority!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. But they can't!

They're in the minority. Even if you were to subject every Democrat in the senate and the Congress to mind control, you couldn't impeach Bush.

What they need to do is to win more elections, and attempting to impeach Bush would make that harder to do.

[seabeyond]

22. iwant iwant iwant iwant.....ya. bully for you. they are talking

impeachment more and more and more. the word is getting out there. you want to be way over there, when we are right here right now, yesterday and the day before. they will talk tomorrow and the next day i am sure. sounding like you dont listen to the dems either. so many people want........before putting forth the work to get. you think it is so simple for all the dems to stand up and say impeach. they will be able to soon, if not today, soon, we are getting there.

what do you want "they" to do? yell out impeach? is that it? just yell it out? is that going beyond talk? talk about stallin all progressive move forward because talk is damn cheap. what will that do for us to yell out impeach? does it make it so?

it took us over ten years to get here. you just yelling out nonsense and demands is the same as all the others, unwilling to do the work, listen, resolve. dems have held the repug responsible every step of the way, and yet..... still,..... your resolution hasnt happened. you deny they do, you demand they do, they are..... and still there sits bush. i prefer to look in another direction at why????? even holding repugs accountable the people in mass accept. at first they refuse, then media kicks in and gives bush assurance all is fine, i am the daddy taking care of you, keeping you safe, blindly follow. and the people are. want to yell at someone, yell at the people. congress dems could stand on their head, but if the people dont listen, shit wont happen. dont blame congress. you could do no better.

i thank them, i dont need to forgive the dems. i am seeing how hard they are working. how they dont see it all, but see so much. for any congress to be faced with a zillion illegalities is amazing. i sit here and go from one issue after another after another.

this attitude of yours accomplishes nothing. arrogantly stand there, and demand, lecture, deny what dems do, because you dont get what "you want"

[Marleyb]

24. WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND IMPEACHMENT

It is not about what I want, it is about our representatives standing up for WE THE PEOPLE and the US Constitution in what we use to call a democracy.

I don't want them to yell, I want them to draw up articles of impeachment and introduce them. It only takes one representative. Now is the chance for any one of them to become a hero. The American people will stand up behind them, and shout our voices loudly until the rest of our 'representatives' stand up as well.

why are you attacking me anyhow, aren't we on the same team here?

[earth mom]

27. I'm with you 100%.

We are NOT holding the dem leaders accountable and they in turn are NOT holding Bush & the rethugs accountable either. With this kind of behavior the dems might as well be rethugs. :grr:

I am seriously tired of this kiss butt attitude by everyone around here towards dems in DC who, mind you, have been elected to do OUR BIDDING and WHO WORK FOR US!

It is obvious that most of em are working for THEMSELVES. :grr:

[seabeyond]

28. the dems say out loud, to the nation. bush broke the law and

ignored the constitution. what do you want. them to go over and beat him up. jump up and down, yelling and screamin, peeing their pants in excitement, really really really, make him stop

how much more clear can you be

yet......

the american people are now saying, you be ok bushie boy. media says, all is good, bush is good. and bush says na.. na.. na na.. na

what would you like the dems to do, in calling bush

impeachment.

they just may. looks like they are working on it. and doing a good job generating. can they have a week or two to gather information evidence and draw up the papers, get support, start a movement, inbetween the hearings and the other chaos going on in this administration. btw, still a whole lot has to come out on nsa. and it is coming. we have a couple whistleblowers. they are getting more airtime. people investigating. all kinds of people. scholars writing papers on bush...... i am sorry you can see the progress. i can.

i just think a lot of people on this board dont have a concept. i have yet to see the dems lean back in their chairs and say i am done. i am seeing them work. i am seeing them call bush. unfortunately you dont have the outrage from the people. you dont have the people or media holding bush to any sort of accountability. the first step in resolving the issue is to actually figure out where the problem is.

or, simply diss the dems

at least you speak out.

[earth mom]

30. Conyers is the only one in congress who is doing what I would do

if I were in their shoes.

HELL YES! I'd rather see congress screaming and shouting-just like the rethugs do when they don't like something! I'd rather see them on every t.v. talk show, on the radio, in the newspapers, where ever, when ever exposing Bush & Co for every damn illegal, immoral and unethical thing he and his cronies have EVER done! But sadly, pathetically, far too many in congress don't want to rock the boat and are protecting their own butts FIRST. And far too many other people excuse them for whatever b.s reason. Sorry, but I just can't do that. Because IMO, at this point, there simply are NO MORE EXCUSES! The bottom line is that this country is in an extremely dire situation. War in Iran is looming and everything is going to hell in a hand basket at lightning speed!

My gut feeling is that sometimes in life you just have to say what the fuck and go for it, whatever it is. Even if you lose everything.

The time is NOW.

Honestly, do any of us really want to look back in 6 months, a year, 5 years and say "woulda coulda shoulda"?! Like people did before, during and after Hitlers reign? I know I don't! But hey, I'm just one person, with no money, no connections, and no power to do anything more than speak out and hope my voice is heard by someone who CAN do something before it is too late!

[seabeyond]

31. i have heard more than just conyers speak out

our debate isnt on whether or not the dems should speak out. i say they have and are speaking out. you say they arent.

[earth mom]

32. Are you taking about Kerry, Boxer, who?

How hard are they fighting? Are they coming out swinging? Relentlessly? 24/7?

The only way things are gonna change is with a down and dirty, relentless, 24/7, "In Your Face" attitude. After all, the rethugs have used this tactic to their advantage quite effectively, haven't they?!

So far, I haven't seen a smidgen of this attitude from anyone in Congress except for Conyers. As well, it's impossible for me to support those in Congress who, on the one hand, give lip service protesting some of the corruption of Bush Co, and then on the other, go back and vote on some bill that favors the rich and/or corporate elite and screws the middle class and poor. :grr:

[gulfcoastliberal]

9. If Rockefeller had been told the admin was breaking the law, his duty is

to blow the whistle on the illegal activity. His handwritten note proves he knew the information he learned was unconstitutional. Devils advocate says the dems aware of the bushco illegal program had a moral and legal obligation to expose these illegal acts.

[Catrina]

18. He was bound by law not to speak, Bush made it a

matter of National Security, meaning if he spoke, he could be accused of treason. However, he obviously did not trust them at all, after he expressed his concerns to Cheney, he told him he had written a letter expressing those concerns.

Why would a Senator tell a VP that? To let him know 'if anything happens to me, this letter will surface?' And why should a US Senator have to worry that simply because of a difference of opinion his life might be in danger?

But as far as telling the public, these criminals used the 'National Security' reason for calling the meeting with only eight Senators. Bush had declared right after 9/11 that Democrats were not to be trusted with National Security information, and that from then on, because of leaks which he blamed Dems for, only eight lawmakers would be briefed on such matters.

Also, when Bush claimed to have told 'Congress' about his spying activities, Rockefeller said that this is not what happened. Rockefeller has made this very difficult for Bush.

I think now that people like him understand the true danger of this cabal. But I also think he knows that little by little they will be stopped, because real patriots are working behind the scenes, risking a lot, to make sure they are held accountable.

[gulfcoastliberal]

26. I hope you're right!

I think now that people like him understand the true danger of this cabal. But I also think he knows that little by little they will be stopped, because real patriots are working behind the scenes, risking a lot, to make sure they are held accountable.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. How is it treason to bust a president who is violating the Constitution?

The fight might have been nasty, but Jay Rockefeller (not exactly without resources to defend himself) comes off looking like a wimp here.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. If Rockefeller could tell he wouldn't have written the letter himself

It's obvious Rockefeller couldn't tell ANYONE (and same with Nancy) because it was so secret Rockefeller didn't even let anyone on his staff know about it and written the letter himself (and apparently has just as bad handwriting as my brother which is horrible). So for whatever purpose they obviously couldn't squeal.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. He "could not" say anything?

Why not? What was he waiting for? More illegalities? A better horoscope reading?

[WCGreen]

2. They are bound by secrecy laws not to reveal stuff they

hear in committee meetings or closed sessions....

Plus, what was revealed to congressional leaders was not the whole story...

As for the New York Times, last time I looked they weren't card carrying members of the Democratic Party....

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Yes

Just like the senate couldn't reveal anything when Reid closed it.

[LunaC]

16. They were cleverly ensnared in a * Catch-22........

...to talk about it would have been a criminal offense. I don't think we should blame the victims and cast aspersions on Pelosi and Rockefeller when the focus should - and must - remain on the illegality of the Bush Administration activities.

[rucky]

35. They are bound by the Constitution to report illegal acts.

classified or not.

[G_j]

4. I'm also wondering

what is up with those critters who saw all those really horrible torture photos. What is their problem, "national security"?
They saw explicit evidence of crimes.

[EST]

6. Rockefeller has worn a haunted look for a long time, now.

[lyonn]

11. We can hope the Alito hearing will bring this issue

front and center again. We need to know how Alito feels about the Constitution and the separation of powers. Hoover, J. Edgar, had a bad habit of keeping info on people he wanted to control. Sounds familiar doesn't it. Kennedy already has made it plain he intends to pursue this presidential power thing along with the illegal eavesdropping. Some of the other Dems on the committee seem to weaken during these hearing while they are trying to be "fair". I dread the thought of them doing this again. The media will fall all over themselves making a big deal out of how even the dems thought he was brilliant. Ugh!

[KharmaTrain]

15. Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't...Time To Investigate

Yep...I want this regime to "investigate" who leaked this story to James Risen. I'd love to see Risen and others given the judicial powers to subpoena various regime officials and blow this scandal sky high. They should watch what they wish for.

I'm far from a Pelosi fan, but she wasn't the only one who knew. So did Dick Gephart! Seems people forget about him. He was the leader until 2002 and had to have been in on some, if not all of the Chenney bullshit sessions.

The problem was/is these Democrats are hog-tied. They have no power. What could have they done with this information? Gone to Congress during the height of fukstick's popularity (especially on National Security and Iraq) and try to plead Tom DeLay to investigate? Or Trent Lott or Bill Frist? Surely you jest. This regime was sure their people would keep a mafia-lock on this stuff, so if there was any leak, those Democrats were easy to finger. Since this information was considered confidential, disclosing this information would have violated laws that none of these legislators (who either have morals or don't have spines or both) weren't about to breach. There was no certainty if they blew the whistle anything would come of it. Surely they'd get pummeled in the corporate media and made to look like "traitors" and "un-American".

Just like the Pentagon Papers, this story needs to play itself out...and it will. This is just the beginning and I expect there will be some type of investigation that will uncover a lot more than, dare I say, even our worst suspicions (even the tin foil hatters, if such a thing is possible).

This regime was hell-bent on abusing power and didn't care who knew. If you tried to even question, you were steamrolled. Playing hindsight games on why those who knew of this spying program didn't come clean is wasting time and energy...the focus must be on what was done, who did it, make it stop and those who did it accountable. Forming circular suicide squads is what the Repugnicans would love to see us do. Let's let them have those honors, we'll take care of the "collaborists" (DINOs) when Democrats are in a far strong position of power. Right now there is none other than our voices and determination to prevail.

[EFerrari]

17. Pelosi and Rockefeller are two of the most honorable Democrats

in Congress. They have been among the most active, fighting the good fight against these criminals.

This piece doesn't pass the smell test.

/spelling

[Catrina]

20. Yes, I agree ~ looks like the something you'd expect from the MSM

No facts, no research, just knee-jerk attacks ~ there are a lot of things I disagreed with the Democrats on, but this is not one of them. Rockefeller was very wise in dealing with this ~ he put Cheney on notice, that no matter what happened, the American people would, one day, learn about their little secret.

Durbin also was placed in a similar situation. I used to be furious with the Democrats for not standing up to these people. But the more I'm learning, the more I see just what kind of evil they were up against and for a long time, the 9/11 card was being played. Still, I think behind the scenes many of them were working to save this country from these thugs. They are truly dangerous and it must have been so difficult for Rockefeller and Durbin and others, to know what they knew and to have to wait for the right time, to reveal it.

Commondreams needs to correct that article ~ I never thought we would have to watch them as closely as we have to watch the MSM.

[EFerrari]

21. I've had a similar reaction to this particular author before but

can't remember the topic. Hmm. I think I'll go look.

On edit: Well, he looks clean enough. A civil liberties lawyer, wrote a book on the Supreme Court, works with Electronic Frontiers, wrote the afterword to "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse" - a book so hot for the government they had to ban it.

In any case, I think he's got this particular issue wrong.

[librechik]

29. they would also have been painted as partisan traitors

better to follow the rule of law whenever possible--that's the big difference between Dems and Pukkkes right now, they want the security daddy to be able to break the law to protect their red little asses.

Pelosi and Rockefeller are honorable. About this we are complaining?

[mdmc]

19. If wiretaps were on war protesters, * needs to resign

If all taps were tied to shady al-quida folk, then lets put this story to bed. Bush didn't dot the i's and cross the t's. Case closed.

[jsamuel]

23. That was part of the problem with how Bush did this... THEY COULDN'T TELL

ANYONE!!! IT WAS CLASSIFIED! How do you get support to stop something if you can't tell anyone what it is?! Someone did leak the story way back! That is about the only possible thing a Dem could do!!!

People need to look at how well our leadership has done and how it is getting better and better with Dean/Pelosi/Reid every day.

[Marleyb]

25. The constitution is not partisan

It is the job of the congress to hold the executive branch accountable.

All these people who keep putting out the meme, 'oh we can't do anything' are giving these people an out. I don't give a shit whether they are republican or democrat. The time has come to stand up to this administration and do what is right by the people of this country. I don't care if they don't think it will succeed. There is such a thing as integrity and doing the right thing no matter what.

I think we also can give some republicans credit. They are not ALL evil. Some of them have been fooled, and would like nothing more than the chance to set things right. They are probably waiting for the Democrats(the opposition party) to do something and GOD ONLY KNOWS why they think words and not actions are the way to go. They seem like they are stalling, not helping in any useful way.

Just found out that Arlen Spector has scheduled a hearing about the spying for February, after Alito. Am I the only one who sees how obvious it is that when you find out the president is a criminal, you don't go on with business as usual and you sure as hell don't let him nominate supreme courts justices.

Republicans would stop business as usual if it were something this important(see Terri Shiavo) and demand accountability immediately, not put it off to some investigation and hope we all forget about it.