Whoa: Fight Outside My Apartment: Iraq War Vet Goes OFF on Somebody!

[Dr. Jones]

Wow, I've never seen this before. Less than an hour ago, I heard all sorts of yelling and screaming outside my apartment. That's not uncommon, but this guy was really going off. I looked out the window and saw this big dude, looked like a Marine-type with the crew cut, wide shoulders, tattoos, etc. "Man, I've been there. What the f**k is this guy sayin! I've been to Iraq, I was f**king THERE! What the f**k is this guy saying, WE f**ked it up?"

The guy's girlfriend tried to hold him to comfort him, but he was red all over. "Aaaahhhhhhhhh!" he yelled at the top of his lungs. Then the other guy who apparently made the comment came up to him. I walked to the other room to try to see if I could get a better view of this in case somebody got violent and I had to call the police. During this time, I heard a slap/pop, and knew the Marine had bopped the other guy in the face. Sure enough the other guy was holding his face like he'd been hit.

The guy who made the comment tried to explain: "No man, I wasn't f**king talking about YOU. I know what the Marines are doing in Iraq. I was talking about THEM (the terrorists? the Republicans? the government?)!"

"Man what the f**k, where's your patriotism!" yelled the Marine.

"No man, I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about the Marines. I'm just sayin!"

Finally after a few minutes of this, the two did make amends to some degree and said, "Alright I'm not mad at you, alright.."

This was weird. I wondered if the Marine had PTSD. I've heard of our men and women in uniform coming home and going off like this, even punching people. Apparently people with PTSD can flip with even the slightest mention of the war, or anything else that has to do with the war.

It is truly sad what war does to our young men and women. And it is VERY SAD that Bush sent them over there not for freedom, not for Saddam being a bad dude, not to free the Iraqi people, and not for WMDs, but purely to steal Iraq's oil reserves for our American oil companies (see Executive Order 13303, May 2003).

Will they ever trust the United States of America again?

[rniel]

1. Sounds like a Timothy McVeign in the making

n/m

[Canuckistanian]

20. Oh, jeez, don't say that

I'd hate to think there are thousands of ticking time bombs like McVeigh wandering the country...

[sailingaway]

2. ya, its why so many 'nam vets were pissed off at Kerry

they ave to build in their mind a wall that hides the things they did wrong, as it was so horrible that to face is is almost insurmountable. Its a basic human trait & reaction.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. "So many 'nam vets were pissed off at Kerry"???....

...the only 'nam vets that were pissed off at Kerry were PAID to be pissed off.

[madeline_con]

6. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Were none of the above. :hi:

[acmejack]

11. Not so.

[Neil Lisst]

12. I think most vets after 1968 agreed with Kerry, but most before then

kind of see him as helping cause the loss in Vietnam.

The guys who went in 1965-1967 went when it was assumed we would win this sucker, just like the first few years of Iraq. But then 1968 came, and suddenly the politics of the war was being challenged everywhere in the culture. The draft was forcing people who hated war into war. Times changed, and the guys who came in 1968 and later tended to have a point of view more amenable to Kerry's actions from 1971 on, than to those earlier vets, many of whom still hold a grudge.

IMHO, there is a Vietnam service cultural divide that started about the time of the Tet in 1968, between soldiers before and after, and their mindset about the war and those who would end it.

[Sapere aude]

15. I was drafted in 1966 and never was angry at Kerry. I was angry at the

citizens that sent us there then called us baby killers. I never supported the war and while there it was evident to me that we were not going to win. The Tet offensive proved my point. Places we thought were secure suddenly became the front line again.

I think that people today looking back are making up ideas that paint the picture that they want to have in their mind.

[Neil Lisst]

18. well, you'd be one of the exceptions

This person is remembering what it was like.

You'd be the exception in your group.

[Sapere aude]

9. Vietnam vets, and I am one, were and are not pissed off at Kerry.

You my friend don't know what the hell you are talking about. You are mouthing a right wing talking point only.

On edit, this really pisses me off! That period of time was very painful for us and now to use it to win political points today is fucking wrong! The right wing is rewriting history again to suit there need for power.

[KittyWampus]

13. That Denial is a basic human strategy for dealing with heavy shit is true

as is the fact some VietNam vets were and still are pissed off at Kerry because of his speaking out.

Why deny it?

Do you really think there are no Vets who STILL haven't faced what was really going on back then?

[Sapere aude]

16. I'm sorry but I think you are wrong I could not disagree more.

On edit,

The more the years pass the easier it is to deal with the past for me anyway. You need to reconcile history for yourself and you will make it what ever you need it to be for yourself.

[Neil Lisst]

19. Yes, you, me, and a bunch of other guys here.

Stop treating posters shabbily. Your status of as a Vietnam vet is not a badge that allows you to talk harshly to others.

Go to the VA and do something about that anger.

[sandnsea]

10. not "so many", definitely "some"

But yeah, that's it exactly. They blame him for the Vietnam Vet label because they can't accept the truth of what they participated in.

You can also see why Kerry would prefer to make something positive out of Iraq, if at all possible, to avoid another generation facing the same thing.

[acmejack]

14. That's right, I know people who will still launch in to a shouting tirade

about Kerry

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Just curious, but are you one of them?

[acmejack]

23. A Kerry shouter, no, a veteran, yes,

I was in during Vietnam era, but I never set foot in that hell.

[HereSince1628]

4. More likely, PID, post-indoctrination disorder

Coming back into reality hurts.

I can imagine that he felt he was being challenged to not believe things he cherishes about himself and his service.

[Sapere aude]

5. Will they ever trust the United States of America again? Yes they will.

This is the same thing as the Vietnam war. Years from now, a new war will be sold to another group of people and it will happen again.

[magellan]

7. Why does he necessarily have to have PTSD?

My dad was a Marine. They're the most loyal branch of the armed forces and the last to admit the government would do (or have them do) anything wrong.

[JuniperLea]

8. No one wants to put themselves in harm's way for no reason

You have to hide behind the "greater cause" and you really have to believe the hype you are being fed by your commanding officers. I hear this story over and over. Same with their parents. Not their fault at all. My POV has always been... support the troops... bring them home and tell them the truth.

[Breeze54]

21. "I wondered if the Marine had PTSD."

Ah............DOH!!!!!!!! :sarcasm:

[Neecy]

22. Actually...

Apparently people with PTSD can flip with even the slightest mention of the war, or anything else that has to do with the war.

Sometimes, the comments don't necessarily have to relate to war at all. We had a very sad case at work of PTSD and from what our EAP guy told me the slightest thing can set them off - stuff that would seem trivial to you or I can start a dangerous chain of events. If our steak isn't done right we either send it back or shrug it off and eat it - someone with PTSD can throw a huge tantrum over it with the waiter. It's like living with a ticking time bomb and very frightening when it's someone you work with.

[flordehinojos]

24. it is as if this marine has very little self and needs to be reinforced by

others on the outside. it is also possible that the truth about iraq is lurking in some shallow place in his subconscious...almost in a place where it could come out any time and whoever he was fighting with had just touched that place...and it is as if he accepts the reality that iraq is a lie created by the bushit boy for greedy oil purposes, then he will have to admit to himself that every reason for his being there was wrong...and it seems the man can't do that, therefore he FORCES the other into bolstering his service, his self-worth, and his reason for being...and pushes him into venerating the illegal, immoral, horrendous war that bush sent the young marine,and others like him, to. it is sad.

[Dunvegan]

25. From what little the OP heard...sounds like the Marine was angry...

...at the first guy saying something about the military "f*uking up in Iraq."

The Marine may not have been confronting an anti-war statement from the guy that tripped his buttons.

There are a lot of chicken-hawk stay-at-homes saying we should be winning (All that "rah-rah, go team" "Iraq's a football game" thinking.)

A lot of chicken-hawks say our guys are "losers", and we should be "kicking Iraqi azz."

If that were the case, I'd jump in on the side of the Marine in a hot second.

However, I would need to know more to know just what happened, I suppose.

[Bigmack]

26. The guy is just acting out his anger and frustration....

What happens from here on is the turning point in his life.

The Corps teaches anger and violence. Actually, a controlled, purposeful anger and violence. He has to un-learn that shit or direct it elsewhere. I'm damn proud that I was able to do that... with just a lapse or three here and there.

If he doesn't un-learn it, his life is just gonna be shit! He'll blame the hippies, liberals, whoever the Jane Fonda of this war is, or whoever. He'll spend the rest of his life pissed off and only feeling really good when he gets that hit of adrenaline that violence gives you.

If he does un-learn all that anger and violence, he can pick up a decent life.

Will he get help? Probably not.

Amazing... the Corps has a sure-fire method for making powerful warriors, but our society doesn't have much to unmake them.