The "Catholic bashing" on one of the immigration threads...

[mitchum]

prompts me to ask these questions of you Christians:

For the Catholics:
Are the Protestants also correct in their faith? If your answer is "yes", does that conflict with official Church doctrine?

For the Protestants:
Are the Catholics also correct in their faith? If your answer is "yes", well then what is the point of being Protestant?

I'm not asking you guys to start killing each other (there's no need for you guys to get all nostalgic), but I am genuinely curious.

[evlbstrd]

1. Speaking as a Recovering Catholic,

neither is correct.

[Warpy]

19. Speaking as a "stomped off in sheer disgust" ex Catholic

they're both equally insane.

However, since they agree on the bare bones of the whole thing, sectarian squabbling looks really, really silly.

[evlbstrd]

23. My family is Irish.

It was much worse than squabbling.

[Warpy]

34. So is mine

but they left it behind them in the 1880s when they came here.

[evlbstrd]

38. I didn't say I carry the grudge.

I just said it was more than a squabble. They outlawed the language, the church, the Irish Catholic people.
I hope they can make the Easter Accords work. Too many people have died. Squabbles, indeed.

edit for spelling, dammit

[tocqueville]

2. the US might nuke Iran and you want to discuss

medieval twists about what was written on goat pergaments 3000 years ago ?

Sometimes I wonder if they do deserve to kill eachother... so we can get to essential questions :sarcasm:

[redwitch]

5. Gee, Thanks!

:sarcasm:

[nini]

14. Shit like this is what tests my faith

:sarcasm:

[redwitch]

3. As a Catholic who is hangin' by a thread

I say to anybody who totally buys into EVERY goddamned thing their church says, WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

[niyad]

8. as a matter of curiousity, what is the thread that keeps you hanging in

there, particularly given your DU name?

[redwitch]

12. I'm not a witch at all. I just play one on DU.

I have moments at mass when I am truly at peace. I find the Catholic mass to be incredibly beautiful and so very familiar. Also, I have a good friend who attends the same church with her son. She is gay. Her son is totally into being a Catholic and as friend has said to me "Ah yes, We belong to all the best fascist organizations (son is also a scout). I look at her and at him and think maybe, just maybe it is possible to change an organization from the inside. In any case my parish is full of dear (liberal) friends who are also pro choice.
It's hard to explain, does any of that make sense? :hi:

[niyad]

37. yes, it does make sense, and thank you.

[seabeyond]

42. my catholic friend, yes it makes sense. it is the beauty and respect

i have for your religion. right now i am mad at the catholic religion. in the past i enjoyed and embraced the catholic religion though there was much i didnt agree with, i saw thru tradition the peace you talked, and really enjoyed the passion my catholic friends and family had for their religion. now..... i am a bet disgusted seeing my catholic friends go to hate and judgement and deciding who the christian is.

thank you

your impression of your religion is what i love and value and want yawl to take back in the name of your religion

[redwitch]

43. trying!

p.s. my pastor came to our local dem booth at a festival summer of '04. I was manning the booth and a little nervous when I saw him approach. He picked up a button to support Kerry, then put it down and said hmmm, pro choice, pro Kerry could get me in trouble. I need just a regular Kerry button. Then he said something which FLOORED me "If a Catholic who is pro choice shouldn't recieve communion, what about a priest who is pro choice? Should he not GIVE communion?" He smiled at me and walked away. I LOVE my parish!

[sproutster]

18. Heh, I'm with you

I'd be out, except for Mother Theresa and all of the good works that have come out of catholisim (sp prob).

I certainly do not agree with everything, but I agree with human rights.

[redwitch]

28. The social justice component is important

Although I even disagreed with Mother Theresa- she should have been handing out birth control!

[cynatnite]

4. To all christians, catholics, muslims and other god believers..

You are all wrong!



I think.



I'm an agnostic. What the hell do I know? :shrug:

[Warpy]

20. Buddhists are atheists, cupcake

Please don't insult us with accusations of theistic superstition.

[cynatnite]

21. my apologies

:blush:

Thanks for the correction.

[onehandle]

26. Buddhists aren't insulted by much of anything.

Buddhists are open minded.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

33. That's not necessarily true

My uncle's a theistic Buddhist. The question of whether or not there is a god is irrelevant in Buddhism.

[mitchum]

6. I agree that it is indeed a pity that so many people's contemporary...

worldview is colored by the legacy of a skygod made up by a rag tag group of herdsmen. A pity.

[0007]

35. ...and the herdsmen's dog was to keep the sheeple from going a stray.

[knitter4democracy]

7. What about the Eastern Orthodox?

We're neither Roman Catholic nor Protestant. Discuss. ;)

[mitchum]

9. You guys have all of these different sects...

how do you ever expect we heathens to keep up with all of them? :)

[knitter4democracy]

39. Yeah, but . . .

There are three main groups: the Roman Catholic (the western group with the Pope), the Eastern Orthodox (the eastern group with the council of patriarchs that the Pope left), and the Protestants (a huge group of churches that have split off of the Roman Catholic Church that vary quite a bit in their theology and practice).

Now, as for the heathens, that's where I get confused. Is there a difference between a pagan, a goddess worshipper, a Wiccan, and a neo-pagan? I am sure there are, but people seem to use the terms interchangeably, so I get confused. I don't want to offend anyone, so I need a good explanation of those. :)

[Bridget Burke]

40. Some people keep up with sports....

I definitely don't bother with the details of leagues, teams, runoffs, etc.

But I've studied enough religion to be acquainted with the various flavors of Christianity--& even other religions.

In fact, you can find many Catholics down at the sports bars. They must be geniuses!

[demosincebirth]

32. Check out the Catholic/Orthodox Group .

[onehandle]

10. Protestants do not conflict with official Catholic church doctrine.

"The Church of Christ is really present in all legitimately organized local groups of the faithful, which, in so far as they are united to their pastors, are also quite appropriately called Churches in the New Testament. . . . In them the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ, and the mystery of the Lord's Supper is celebrated. . . . In these communities, though they may often be small and poor, or existing in the diaspora, Christ is present, through whose power and influence the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is constituted."

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/832.htm

[mitchum]

11. Thanks...I didn't know that

[onehandle]

15. Additionally, They recognize other religions.

In a nutshell, the Catholic Catechism states that other religions contain "goodness" and are "preparation" to become...well, Catholic.

It's all in this massive document:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc2.htm
Paragraphs 830-856 in particular

[CatholicEdHead]

22. I read it as other churches get their authority only through RCC churches

There is quite a bit of wordsmithing and I of course never had to memorize the CCC (some people actually have to).

[onehandle]

25. No, it's just saying that a church is a church.

Catholic means "Universal". Other churches are considered variations.

I know. It reads like stereo instructions.

[nini]

13. As a Catholic.. protestants are correct in their faith

and no it doesn't conflict with my beliefs because 'official doctrine' is man made to me and I allow myself to find my own way.

[Sapere aude]

16. Everyone has to find their own path. It makes no difference to a believer

who has the truth. If you are concerned that the other guy doesn't have the truth maybe you are not strong in your own faith. You need support for your beliefs by saying the other guy is wrong. That shows to me that you can't stand on the strength of your own faith because there is no strength there.

[cally]

17. Yes, we're all correct in our faith

I don't really care about the differences between doctrines except as an intellectual pursuit. I believe each person can find their own path to God or spirituality. The historical reason for protestantism is a belief in grace and rejection of the Pope's power. I couldn't be catholic because I can't stand the hierachy and the view of women.

[Cleita]

24. Who cares!

It's just another divisive issue that has nothing to do with reality.

[mitchum]

36. I agree that religion has nothing to do with reality (except for fear...

and subjugation)

[DanCa]

27. Speaking as a runaway catholic

The Catholic church is like the mob just when you think your out they pull you back in. :D I have no problem with religion it's the Dogma I can't stand. Especially when thier Dogma is against the very medical research that I need so I can live a normal pain free life. A life were I can walk everyday and not worry about falling down and breaking my neck. A life which I pray to god everyday for. And a life that no ones god or government has the right to prevent.

And btw I think someone laughing at me for praying for a cure for Parkinsons is just as bad as someone who thinks an embryo is just as important as a living breathing human. That's my two cents. Live how you want but don't stand in the way of a cure for Young Onset Parkinsons Disease.

[onehandle]

29. Well spoken. nt

[DanCa]

30. Thanks

I corrected the two grammar mistakes btw. :D

[Neil Lisst]

31. neither one has much to do with Jesus and his teachings

Mainly they're like-minded people sharing common mores, which they reinforce with religions which conveniently agree with them.

I think the Christian who has ascended is the one who will say "it doesn't matter what you believe, it's what you do that counts."

There is no one religion to reach God.

IMHO, and you know what they say.

[melm00se]

41. the fundamental beliefs

of the Catholic, Protestant and Eastern Orthodox churches are the same, all 3 branches of the Christian Church agree on the Nicene Creed, which sums up the our faith:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father*; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

(please note that use of "catholic" here does not refer to the Roman Catholic Church, but rather its definition is "universal")

The divergence can be summed up by the old saw "the devils in the details". Each branch of the Christian Church has a slightly different point of view on many topics (far too many to review here) but this is not surprising as you are talking about life, God, the universe and the overriding question: Why? it is like the old story of the 6 blind men and the elephant - each one "sees" a portion of the whole and is unable to fathom the larger entity

[SPKrazy]

44. "I'm not asking you guys to start killing each other"

I don't believe that you had any intention but to fan the flames

God isn't Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion in the world.

God is, well, God!

All the rest is just window dressing, ways to describe mankind's relationship to God. Each culture has had it's own ways shown to them.

[mitchum]

45. You call it flamebait...

I call it curiosity.
And it's not as if I made up that killing each other stuff. Not made up at all...unlike that god nonsense...

[SPKrazy]

46. "Not made up at all, like that god nonsense"

wow, I am praying for you mitchum

I pray that you find whatever you need in life, and that you are happy and able to follow your dreams.

Amen

[mitchum]

47. I apologize...

that was an unnecessarily harsh statement on my part.
I sincerely appreciate your concern.
peace

[SPKrazy]

48. And Peace To You! n/t