Murtha: Congress considering strategic, surgical nuclear attack on Iran

[kpete]

Iran Plans
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2006-04-11 19:41. Iran
By Jessica McCoy

I went to the town hall meeting yesterday in Carolyn Maloney's district
(she's my Congresswoman in Queens), and Rep. John Murtha was her guest
of honor.

Rep. Murtha confirmed during the meeting in NYC that they have been
asked to consider the possibility of "strategic, surgical strikes with
nuclear weapons" so it is clear that it's being talked about on Capitol
Hill. His perspective was that it wasn't a realistic strategy, because
surgical strikes are never as accurate as we would like them to be, and
we don't have the necessary troops to have a full-scale military
presence in Iran, and we are already facing a huge deficit and that Iran
would be a much more expensive target than Iraq. Still, the fact that
it was a topic of discussion at a town hall meeting and raised as a
possibility is a concern. They could be trying to test the idea to see
where public sentiment is at.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/10050

[LisaLynne]

1. The fact that it is even being discussed ...

chills me to the bone. For crying out loud, how insane are these people and how can we get rid of them before they LITERALLY destroy the planet?

[JuniperLea]

4. See my post #3 on this thread

It had to be said...

[fooj]

16. I hear you.........

:scared:

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

32. Using nuclear weapons to stop the spread and use of nuclear weapons..

..Who the hell though of that one? Very Dangerous Idiots!

[Trevelyan]

89. Petition by physicists on nuclear weapons policy - You can sign

under non-physicists and under institution many people wrote "Student" or "Self"

Petition by physicists on nuclear weapons policy, September 2005
As physicists we feel a special responsibility with respect to nuclear weapons; our profession brought them into existence 60 years ago. We wish to express our opposition to a shocking new US policy currently under consideration regarding the use of nuclear weapons. We ask our professional organizations to take a stand on this issue, the Congress of the United States to conduct full public hearings on this subject, and the media and public at large to discuss this new policy and make their voices heard.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/petition/

Will The U.S. Nuke Iran?

Professor of Physics Highlights The Dangers....

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. It is an insane idea

An attack by a nuclear power on a non-nuclear power qualifies as insane, but factor in all the other issues surrounding an attack on Iraq and it could be a disaster on a biblical scale.

[JuniperLea]

3. Leaving all options open, eh?

These bastards are going to get us all killed.

You know... what if...

What if Murtha or some other intelligent and knowledgeable man with experience were to either be approached or to approach some other very strong country and plan a coup?


Sorry, my fantasies are carrying me away.

Sigh.

[Vinnie From Indy]

7. America does not want to go down that road

Our elected officials and our military swore an oath to the Constitution NOT to Smirky the Chimp. We will have gained nothing if we abandon the rule of law.

[JuniperLea]

10. Fine. An inside job then

Bush poses more of an imminent threat to the health and well-being of many thousands of people around the globe than Saddam did when the US invaded. All I'm saying is that someone from the inside better get the led out and get that idiot bastard out of the White House before some other country takes matters into their own hands!

[katty]

20. ahha, that needed to happen years ago-now they're prepping

americans/world for another act of agression-only the blowback on this military escapade will be unimaginable.

[jean]

68. Millions, more like millions of people around the globe.

[bdamomma]

84. yea, like

North Korea. they have a mental man in power too.

[DinahMoeHum]

53. Problem is, Chimpy and gang put loyalty to themselves and party

over loyalty to the Constitution and the American people.

They need to be taught a lesson about this, one way or another.

:evilfrown:

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. "Wild speculation" eh? ** is a GD LIAR!

:grr:

[Moochy]

57. Is he?

If something is called "wild speculation", its usually considered wrong, but is it necessarily so?
Why not come out and say no, there is no plan to use nukes.

Because they didnt say that, they said that Hersh's article was "wild speculation"

Wild speculation might happen to be accurate speculation, if I parse his statement correctly.

I guess this depends on what the meaning of "wild" is. Wild that Hersh got it right?
Wild that they have a leaker inside the administration willing to put a stop to it?

Wild speculation is just ambiguous enough to maybe still use the veiled threat transmitted throught the media to get Iran to the table? who knows.

[AzDar]

5. Well, we either make like the immigrants have recently and march on

D.C...or wait for Clusterfuck McBushnuts to push the 'launch' button. I'm ready to go!

[Jim__]

8. I agree.

We can't wait to find out what this nut has planned. It's time for a huge march on Washington. This should be more effective than the protests before Iraq because a lot more people understand that we have a complete jackass sitting in the oval office.

[DinahMoeHum]

54. Same here. More like a general strike, if we can pull that off.

n/t

[bdamomma]

81. Yes we have to get

out in the streets, let us be persistent like the immigrants were, you see, if you have the numbers you can change the outcome. Look at France, and their Job Law, the government threw it out.

[obiwan]

74. D.C. for me...lemme know when.

[ClintonTyree]

76. Won't work....

"W" doesn't listen to "focus groups". :eyes:

[HereSince1628]

6. Wedging the lid off and limiting other options...that's the NeoCon

pattern.

They used it in Iraq, they'll use it in Iran.

They'll use it everywhere they see the need. Like an unborn shark in the womb, after Iraq I expect they will start consuming their Arab state "allies."

[coalition_unwilling]

9. Is Murtha willing to go to jail to stop it? I doubt it.

That's what it's going to take folks, massive civil disobedience, general strike, stuff like that. The only language BFEE understands, I have reluctantly concluded.

[DBoon]

11. a "surgical strike" with nuclear weapons

is like doing surgery with a chainsaw

[ladjf]

50. I don't see how an attack with a 1 megaton bomb that kills

1 million Iranians outright and exposes countless millions to radiation sickness and cancer could be considered as a "surgical" strike. It's time for some knowledgeable scientists to blow the whistle on this before the maniacs actually do it. Congress must intercede now.

[wicket]

12. OMFG

:wow:

[electropop]

13. Holy crap. It's official. Bush is completely insane.

Yes, the Bushitler regime is purely evil in every way. But I never imagined they were this far mentally gone. This is the most serious threat to America and the entire planet in all of world history.

I feel like we're in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." The world is being conquered and destroyed, and nobody sees it happening.

[jedr]

14. I was in the Navy in 1968,in the Med'.during a flair-up;

Of the Israeli War. We sat for 3 or 4 days with 8 nukes loaded on aircraft , with 4 of them on the catapults with pilots in the seats 4 more ready to be launched. So nukes have always been an option. However this was not a first strike mission but a defensive posture. IMHO, this is saber rattling ,but with the bunch of Hawks that are running the show, it does give you worry. It may well be that they are testing the European and Russian response to this. I do feel that we need to be a voice of reason and take to the streets again.

[DELUSIONAL]

15. Surgical nuclear strike -- obscene

The fall out is sure as hell not "surgical".

If bushie goes ahead with this plan AND the US military carrie out cold blooded murder -- then I hope that the whole gang is brought to International court for war crimes.

There's a movie, The Last Hangman, about a very efficient British executioner who was called on to hang Germans for war crimes after WWII.

Pierrepoint's service to the Crown is a closely guarded secret but his anonymity is blown away when he is asked by Field Marshal Montgomery to execute Nazi war criminals following the Nuremburg trials.

The scenes here are some of the most shocking - the camera lingers as Pierrepoint hangs a stream of German prisoners, in what can only be described as a production line.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4852622.stm

The only way to end this crime spree is for the all of the criminals to face a judge and jury in an International court of law. I know I'm delusional to believe that justice will prevail over evil.

[leftchick]

17. no such thing as surgical nuclear strikes

the radiation and nuclear fallout emitted from one, just ONE bunker buster would travel over several countries and affect millions of people in a very deadly way.

[KAT119]

51. The water table would be poisoned world wide for centuries!!

Earthquakes far and wide-ripple effect to volcanoes-any nation dependant on oil (ALL) would attack us as the worst cancerous threat the planet has ever known=then planet extinction....

[ClintonTyree]

77. Yippee!!!

Then that would make "the rapture" come sooner! We'd all go to heaven, sit on fluffy white clouds, have everything we want and chat with all those that went before us! :) Wouldn't that be GREAT! :sarcasm:

[obiwan]

75. Yeah. Surgical like a coathanger abortion.

This administration is indeed BATSHIT CRAZY.

[hiley]

18. Murtha confirmed.

surgical strikes, oh it is so clean & clear cut..
i feel very ill, for days now.
why won't they ever learn?

[quiet.american]

22. Murtha also said there will be no nuclear bomb dropped on Iran.

I may not have perfect recall, but I remember very clearly that Rep. Murtha was asked about the Sy Hersh report that had come out over the weekend, and he unequivocally said there will be no nuclear strike on Iran.

I had posted earlier about this and his other comments here:

Murtha's Town Hall Comments

[hiley]

26. hopefully for the entire world and especially

for all the Iranians Congressman Murtha is correct.

[quiet.american]

30. Yes. For all the Iranians and for the world. n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. The US Military and the rest of the world for that matter

are not going to allow Dimson to push any buttons.

Beside with Sharon out, BushCo's plans to use Israel went out the window.

BushCo is all talk and no action, especially when they need a distraction.

[laheina]

40. That's what Murtha is being told.

But this administration takes an inch and runs a whole mile. ANd they aren't truthful.

We've seen how they operate in these situations before.

[quiet.american]

67. Believe me, Murtha's statement did not come from Pollyanna-ville.

Please see the link in my post #22 for more elaboration on this.

[FighttheFuture]

42. Last time I looked, Murtha wasn't exactly in charge of that decision...

so, he may not want this done, but it will take more tham Murtha to NOT do it. Still, it's a good start.

[quiet.american]

55. Right, and he hasn't claimed to be --

-- my perception was, he was speaking from comments expressed to him privately by Democrats and Republicans in the House, that figuratively speaking, they would personally wrestle Bush to the ground and hog-tie him before allowing him to get anywhere near nuking Iran.

[katinmn]

79. Thanks. Great report. Just gave it a kick to Greatest.

[marylanddem]

19. Holy shit. This is just insane.

[Laura S.]

21. public sentiment????!!

:mad: Excuse me but did you he say "to see how the public feels about it"??! Since WHEN does this Administration give a rat's ass as to how we feel....you KNOW they are planning to attack Iran, once again to gain control of the oil, and they don't care how much it is going to bankrupt us, or how many other people will die, as long as they get more rich and more fat!! PULLEEEEEEAASSSE:banghead:

[laheina]

41. Hi Laura S.!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

And I agree with your post completely.

[bdamomma]

82. welcome laura s.

we all know this evil empire. They have been planning this for years. Total New World Order? Russia and China are not going to take bush's shit. These people are killers in this regime, they must go now. rapture my ass, if they are such a hurry for it, you can take matters in your own hands, not ours.

[SammyBlue]

23. Are these people fucking crazy?

Jesus Christ, I am so terrified now! This man is going to destroy the world.

Want a laugh (well, not a laugh).

Back in 2000, the Weekly World News (I know, it's a cheesy tabloid) had a "predictions" after the 2000 election. In it, it said an American politician would turn against the people and endanger the world. Wow! I opened it and it said "Bush would do that."

I shit you people not.

I put it back and laughed thinking it was horseshit.

Now look. . .he's talking using nuclear weapons. G-d help us all!

[DoYouEverWonder]

37. That's exactly what they want you to be

because that is all they have left. Fear.

Try not to feed the monsters and you'll feel much better.

[SammyBlue]

38. You misunderstand.

I'm not afraid of the terrorists. I'm afraid of my government!

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. They don't care

as a matter of fact, they want us to be afraid of them. They want us to believe they can't be stopped. They want us to believe that they can do whatever they want. It's all part of the illusion they create. It is time to shatter that illusion.

[Zhade]

43. How?

NT!

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. By not being afraid

By seeing through their bullshit.

By realizing they are just a bunch of bullies who are all talk no action.

[laheina]

44. Amen. nt

[bdamomma]

83. Me too

scared of this sick government, and so is the rest of the world. Fear they are feeding us mountains of it now.

[Plaid Adder]

24. a SURGICAL NUCLEAR strike?

For Christ's sake, a nuclear bomb is about as 'surgical' as a baseball bat. Could even THIS Congress possibly think that a pre-emptive nuclear strike against a Muslim country at this moment in time is a good idea?

ARGH,

The Plaid Adder

[laheina]

46. I don't think that they care if it is a good idea.

They have an ideology to worship, and anyone who doesn't agree is inconsequential.

[shance]

25. It's not a "realistic strategy"? Will someone please replace these rich

out of touch white males that are destroying our planet?

Even Murtha appears to be in lala land. He doesn't seem to really want to bring the troops home, he just wants to send them somewhere other than Iraq.

The War Machine is destroying the planet and everything on it. We have to stop the boys with the War toys.

[hiley]

27. redeploy else where..

in the Middle East
:banghead:

[quiet.american]

29. Murtha said almost all of our troops back in U.S. by the end of this year

(I was at this same meeting.)

He said he would estimate that not more than one division would need to remain in the Middle East once the re-deployment of our troops began, and that he predicts the majority of them will be home here in the States by the end of this year.

[hiley]

63. "the majority of them will be home here in the States

by the end of this year."

Now that is a plan.

[quiet.american]

28. This accounting is not quite accurate as to Murtha's comments

I was at this same town hall meeting.

Murtha was asked about Sy Hersh's piece. He unequivocally said there would be no nuclear bomb dropped on Iran.

He was asked a question about U.S. nuclear proliferation and on this question he was more politic, essentially not stating any clear position on it. However, in terms of what was reported in Sy Hersh's piece, he immediately said dropping a nuclear bomb on Iran will not happen.

[sandnsea]

60. Could you make a separate post

And differentiate what you're talking about from the "surgical strikes" the OP seems to be referring to. It's too important to have this buried in a thread. PM me when you do, so I can make sure to keep it kicked.

[quiet.american]

64. Please see my post #22 for link to my earlier posting on this

I'd extensively posted earlier about Rep. Murtha's comments at the Town Hall, but message boards being what they are, my post sank straight to the bottom. :)

However, at no time did I have the perception from Murtha of what the title of this thread purports: that Congress is considering a nuclear strike on Iran. In fact, when the question first came up, as I recall, it was in regard to Sy Hersh's article and the questioner asked for his comment on it. His immediate comment was that there would be no nuclear strike on Iran. With a silent "period" on the end of that statement.

I'm not by nature a note-taker, but I've searched my memory of the afternoon and cannot recall Murtha being specifically asked about surgical, nuclear strikes on Iran and him saying Congress is considering it. He was asked about our role in nuclear proliferation and did not denounce or advocate it, but at no time did he lead me, as an audience member, to think he and Congress were at present mulling over a nuclear strike on Iran.

[ContraBass Black]

31. Somehow, I misread "surgical" as "suicidal."

[Rocknrule]

33. Someone needs to buy all these people Xboxes

and copies of GTA and Mortal Kombat and Doom 3, along with Independence Day and Die Hard on DVD so they can satisfy their sexual desire for war and death in a way that doesn't threaten the entire fucking world!

[darkmaestro019]

72. THAT is exactly why I'm firmly against censorship of violence

in video games, movies, books, porn, etc.

THAT is where I go when I have that bloodthirsty urge. Except when I'm done I close the book, shut the window, etc. And everybody takes a shower and gets a snack and there's no body count.

But I'M the pervert. :argh:

[Rocknrule]

As opposed to Lieberman

who seems to think real violence = good, fake violence = bad

[Rocknrule]

87. As opposed to Lieberman

who seems to think real violence = good, fake violence = bad

[robertpaulsen]

34. I saw Colin Powell speak last night.

He said the idea that there would be military contingency planning for a nuclear strike on Iran is "ridiculous".

Oh, to be rich, retired, and ignorant. :sarcasm:

[nolabels]

35. Like can someone get this sucker pinned to the top?

Like vote it up already :shrug:

[DearAbby]

48. "IT'S WILD SPECULATIONS!"

you heard the Leaker & Chief say that yesterday, and even had Scotty McFellon repeat it. Aren't you reassured now?




:hide:


Jesus, aren't there any sane people in government? What the hell are they thinking, and since when are we a country that use premptive strikes? I remembered Americans went to war as the last restort.


Hilter did a premptive strike in western Europe and Russia, Hilter justified it too...We are really through the looking glass people. Something has to be done, These people are absolutely nutts.

[Moochy]

56. Parsing his statement

The result of a "Wild Speculation" can still be accurate, no?

A lucky guess, based on intuition, etc. or speculation gathered from sources that won't go on the record.

I noticed that neither Bush nor his spokesperson McClellan came out and denied it, they made the accusation that it was "wild speculation"

[bdamomma]

85. the rest of the world is

watching us too. We have the power to do something, for those (excluding present company) who are denial wake up. This sick regime does not give a shit about human life, haven't we had enough of their incompetence yet?

[kpete]

49. interesting

Bill Arkin has a teaser for tomorrow's Early Warning entry -- "Current land warfare war gaming and planning for Iran -- you read it here first" -- that begs the question: with what army? http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2006/04/wild_speculatio.html#more

And Arkin's post yesterday is also worth reading:

A war with Iran started purposefully or by accident, will be a mess. What is happening now though is not just an administration prudently preparing . . . against an aggressive and crazed state, it is also aggressive and crazed, driven by groupthink and a closed circle of bears.

The public needs to know first, that this planning includes preemptive plans that the President could approve and implement with 12 hours notice. Congress should take notice of the fact that there is a real war plan -- CONPLAN 8022 -- and it could be implemented tomorrow.

Second, the public needs to know that the train has left the station on bigger war planning, that a ground war -- despite the Post claim yesterday that a land invasion 'is not contemplated' -- is also being prepared. It is a real war plan; I've heard CONPLAN 1025.

Like early 2002, the floodgates have opened and the stories about Iran war planning have started. Some claim Dick Cheney has already made the decision, some claim war this spring, some say the U.S. and Israel are collaborating.

As convincing a case made that this sort of higher level operational strke planning is taking place, until a few days ago I was under the impression that the center of gravity on Iran policy in the Bush administration's second term had largely moved away from the Pentagon to Foggy Bottom, with Cheney's office also influential. It's hard to see how the saber rattling can be any help to the internal and external opposition which State has increasingly been exploring ways to support.

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/004014.html
http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2006/04/goldilocks_and_.html

[NMDemDist2]

61. that's been my question all along, "With what Army?"

guess that's why they want the nukes huh? they know our military is in tatters......

[Beelzebud]

52. "surgical strike" with nukes is dumbest fucking thing i've ever heard...

[darkmaestro019]

73. Yeah. It's kind of like trying to whittle with an axe. nt

[Mr_Spock]

58. All this "WILD SPECULATION!!11!!" - FUCKING LYING BASTARDS

Isn't leading a country to it's suicidal death a good enough reason for impeachment?

[edbermac]

59. Sounds like Bushit to me.

Typical bait and switch...no fucking way they would they nuke Iran first...they built Iraq and WMD's up; now they're doing it to Iran...

[notadmblnd]

62. But first they plan to scare them with this

Pentagon plans record-breaking explosion in Nevada desert

Julian Borger in Washington
Saturday April 1, 2006
The Guardian

The Pentagon is preparing to set off a record-breaking bang, detonating 635 tonnes of high explosives and sending a mushroom cloud into the sky over the Nevada desert. The blast, on June 2, codenamed Divine Strake, is likely to be the biggest controlled conventional explosion in military history, experts said, and is designed to test the impact of bunker-busting bombs aimed at underground targets.

The blast comes at a time of rising tension with Iran over its nuclear programme. The US has refused to rule out military action and is considering the feasibility of destroying underground warhead development sites Iran is alleged to have built.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1744506,00.html


I was watching Wolfie and his guest tonight pound the drums of war. They were both rather agitated that Iran had developed their nuclear facility underground. It was sickening so I switched the channel over to Tweetie. There he was talking to a journalist from NBC news Jim Miklezewski (not sure of the spelling). They were showing a map of the range Iran missiles can reach, Jim said that of course, Israel is very interested in nipping Iran's nuclear capabilities in the bud. Tweety replied, that eliminating Iran's program might be a job Israel has to do itself. A little while later a friend of mine told me about this test in the desert coming up so I googled it and sure enough it's gonna happen. I hadn't seen it posted here so I thought I'd share and ask if anyone else is aware?

[ContraBass Black]

66. It's been around DU for a couple of days.

[Oldtimeralso]

65. Bomb idea

Maybe W could us his piloting skills!

[LittleClarkie]

69. How do surgical and nucular go together

I'm wondering.

[Stand and Fight]

70. Something has to be done to stop these madmen.

No matter what the cost we have to stop them. They cannot be allowed to continue on this course. We must not go the silent and idiotic way of the Germans who claimed to know nothing of Hitler's plans.

[AndyTiedye]

71. The pResident and VICE pResident Are BatShitCrazy

I think that fits the Constitutional definition of "incapacitated".

[GeorgeGist]

78. "Surgical nuclear strikes..."

that's just plain nuts. Like extracting a tooth with a 357 Magnum.

[katinmn]

80. Except for about six, they are all LIARS

[Catamount]

86. He didn't denounce the use of NW, though! Shocking!

Scary and getting scarier!

[Callalily]

88. Crazy,

insane, ludicrous! What ever is that Evil Monger thinking?

[ShortnFiery]

90. Why Now? The diplomatic situation couldnot be more out of control. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

91. Um! Exactly What Would A Nuclear Surgical Strike Look Like?

A 50 kiloton bomb would be surgical? Have these idiots ever even seen a picture of Hiroshima? There is no such thing as a "surgical nuclear strike." The explosive force is orders of magnitude too great to be surgical.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

92. Sorry, Double Post

..

[Sailboy]

93. A surgical strike? Is that like Shock and Awe?

[baby_mouse]

94. la la la finger in ears.

Nice weather. Ooh, look, the goodyear blimp.