A Solution to the Problem of Mexican Immigration: The Annexation of Mexico

[Alcibiades]

The fact of illegal immigration presents us with an unappealing choice: either we must grant amnesty to immigrants who have come here illegally, or we must erect a barrier along our southern border that would be comparable to the Great Wall of China. Amnesty would reward criminality, and would make citizens of many who no doubt deserve it, but it would also grant the sacred rights of citizenship to a great many scoundrels and criminals who, having no respect for the laws of their own nation, have come to ours illegally, where they crowd our jails and prisons. Moreover, granting such an amnesty would encourage others to come in the hopes that they, too, would one day be amnestied, and would imply, generally, that every poor person in Central and South America has the right to come to the United States to improve their lot, even though we do not have the ability to absorb such a massive influx, and the result would be the institution of massive poverty not only for the immigrants, but for native-born workers. Similarly, the erection of a wall would be a costly enterprise, and would do nothing to improve the plight of the teeming millions to our south.

Why is it that Mexico has remained poor, when they enjoy many advantages similar to those we possess? Some would blame US policy, and this has probably played a role, but I think the blame mainly lies with the Mexican elite. The Mexican elite have no genuine concept, as we do, of the equal dignity of all people. They regard the poor as peons, as serfs. As such, they have made inadequate provision for their education, health, well-being and betterment. The result is easy to see.

The failures of the Mexican state are not the fault of the Mexican people, but of the Mexican ruling elite, who have treated the people as little more than slaves. Say what you will about the evils of American capitalism, most of which I would be in agreement with, at least our capitalists invested in our country and created the productive capacity that is the foundation of our standard of living. The annexation of Mexico could be an ennobling enterprise, if it were conducted in the spirit of democracy, pluralism and multiculturalism. We could all move freely across what is now our southern border, the artificiality of which is now plain to see, living and working wherever we wished. We could built the hospitals and schools the plutocratic Mexican elite have so long denied the people of Mexico. Such a project would enrich and improve the lives of so many, and would be in keeping with the vision of the founder of our party, Thomas Jefferson.

If we are willing to grant citizenship to some Mexican nationals, why not grant it to them all? After all, millions of Mexicans are voting with their feet. Yesterday we saw it all across the nation, multitudes of immigrants and their supporters waving American flags. Do we suppose that those Mexicans still residing in Mexico lack this patriotism for our country, simply because they have chosen to remain in their own towns, cities and villages, close to their kin and the graves of their ancestors? The ties that bind people to their native land are strong, and, all things being equal, a majority of Mexicans would probably opt for the our way of life and our form of government.

Why not put this to the test? Our party could call for a referendum, whereby the Mexican people would have the choice of joining the United States. The process for this is well established, and existing Mexican states would simply be rebranded as part of the US, after adopting new state constitutions modeled on those of US states. This would not be imperialism, but the free democratic choice of the citizens of Mexico. It could also be good for the Democratic Party—imagine the xenophobia and naked hatred this would inspire on the part of Republicans! It would really show them for what they are.

[flamin lib]

1. That would just move the problem further south.

Mexico has a immigration problem from Central/South America with those people using Mexico as a conduit to the US.

[Jack from Charlotte]

11. Better idea. Give Texas back to Mexico....

that way those that wish to leave Mexico can go there and we'd be rid of that Bush place, too boot... so to speak.

[Alcibiades]

16. Or we can annex Mexico

and make Texas an independent nation-state again.

[flamin lib]

17. Awwwww, come on! Some of us live in Texas and it was once a

solid Democratic state. Tom DeLay fucked us over with re-districting and Bush is a transplant, not a native.

[Alcibiades]

20. I want LBJ back.

Now there was a good Democrat.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. Not to mention that California was originally part of Texas

If we were just giving Texas back, that might be a good trade. Let's face it, there's some great things about Texas but it's 30+ electoral votes for the GOP. That's an election right there. However, if we have to give back California, then that's not such a good thing. They can have Ah-nuld if they want, but I'm pretty interested in keeping the 55 electoral votes and Barbara Boxer.

[adarling]

23. Oh come on, Texas isn' so bad

I am from there and most of us hate the guy, imagine living with him for 12 yrs of your life. The problem is not getting rid of texas, its getting rid of our elite issues in this state. Texas politics are pretty interesting, we are in a state of transition, we have fluxes like we did 12 yrs ago when the repukes took control. The Dems are building back up and will again have control. I might be living in lala land, but it is a good state, just run by crazy ass religious wackos right now.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

2. Very interesting

:popcorn:

[librechik]

3. a bold enough idea to intrigue El Shrubbo

yeah, moron, if you want a legacy, think about doubling the size of the US without firing a shot!

(rather than starting the first and only world nuke conflagration ever--there won't be anyone around to celebrate your greatness, your majesty!)

of course, we'd have to get Mexico to go along...Aren't they proud to be a sovereign country? They might not go for it...

[Alcibiades]

7. The current president

Fox has an approval rating of 62%, so they probably wouldn't go for it on that score. Our constitutions and system of governmen are proabably plusses, but being stuck with our politicians....

[DBoon]

24. why is this a problem?

Just get rid of Bush and make Fox president of the merged entity

[Zookeeper]

31. As much as I dislike Smirk...

Fox wouldn't be an improvement. Fox is smarter, but they are both corrupt, whores for the elite.

[iamthebandfanman]

9. proud enough to

take the U.S.'s money to boost their economy cause they cant sustain one on their own.

i tend to wonder if people REALLY want to be legal or not.
i mean, most people from mexico who come to work in the US send the money they make right back to mexico where it has more value.

the real problem is being ignored, and thats the mexican president.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. One stupendous advantage to this

Would be the effect on the political alignments in the House and Senate. Well, assuming honest elections in the enlarged USA.

[Alcibiades]

13. That is the hope

And, of course, this would mean that we would assume resposibility for governing. I think even a modest improvement in Mexico's standard of living would help the electoral prospects for our party, as the party of American unification (hey, I just made that up, but it sounds good.)

[IdaBriggs]

5. Hey! I said this a couple of days ago -- only I said we should "BUY IT"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=840426

It was kind of ... educational. :) But I like your post, too.

Great minds think alike! :)

[Alcibiades]

10. There would be an economic component

we would have to have massive public investment in Mexico, something like what the FRG did with the GDR. I do like the idea of having a referendum, though. I've seen some polls suggesting that a majority of Mexicans would come if they could--does this mean that they would also like it if Mexico became part of the US? Different question, I know.

Of course, there is precedent for your suggestion, i.e. the Louisiana Purchase, and Alaska, but these were possessions of sovereign states, and not sovereign states themselves.

[ginnyinWI]

6. so what exactly would the process be--

Democrats travel to Mexico and conduct a vote? You think Vincente Fox would have some objections?

And if the people of Mexico vote to become a U.S. state, you think Fox is just going to say "okay!"

A bit unrealistic to say the least. :eyes:

[Alcibiades]

12. More of a project for research

First, find out if there's any public support for the idea. Obviously, this is something that would be carried out at the level of nation states, not political parties. There are a couple of options--Mexican states could opt in with a binding referendum, or a national referendum could be held.

Fox is out in December, so the process would take longer than that anyway.

I grew up in West Berlin. After the changes there, i don't think anything is impossible.

[AlphaCentauri]

34. what would be the official language?

:think:

[mike_c]

8. no no no-- that would REALLY screw up Mexico...

...which I really like precisely because it's NOT the U.S.

[cdsilv]

15. What mystifies me (and it has been said elsewhere here....)

...is that Mexico is a relatively resource rich country (lots of oil, beautiful coastlines, good fisheries...), with people whose work ethic should be the envy of the americas (as evidenced by the Mexicans who come here to do "work that americans won't do" (altho I beg to differ with that statement).

So why is the average mexican so dirt poor and literally dying to come here and work?

Sounds like a societal and political problem....

[Alcibiades]

19. It's capital

Although Mexico has oil wealth, it has only been since the 1970s that it has really ramped up production. The financial crises of the 1980s have led many to call that the "lost decade" of Mexican development. The country has also suffered from capital flight--from 75 to 85, some US 53 billion dollars left the country. This is partly a currency problem. Because the value of the Peso is uncertain, the rich have little incentive to invest in Peso-denominated assets, so they send their capital abroad, where it builds factories and infrastructure for nationals of other countries.

Annexing Mexico would at least solve the Peso problem for good.

[Xithras]

27. Mexico and the US had different colonization models.

The US and Canada were colonized by the English in the hopes of generating trade products and tax revenue for the Crown. Their process of achieving this involved importing Europeans to build and develop farms and industries that would create profitable goods. The side-effect of this was a distribution of wealth and the creation of a middle class. If someone found a gold deposit, a fertile valley, or some other valuable resource, they were permitted to keep it and exploit it themselves...as long as the Crown got its cut. The result of this was that the entire colony became enriched, permitting the development of a merchant class, and the Crown coffers grew wildly.

Spain, on the other hand, colonized using the traditional Spanish aristocratic model. Rather than import workers and build up a middle class, they turned their colonies into extensions of Spain itself. They turned their natives into peasants, forced them to work for little compensation, and kept the ownership of production and resources centralized. Mexico essentially became an extension of pre-democratic Europe. If someone in Mexico discovered a gold deposit, a fertile valley, or some other valuable resource, it would be seized by the Spanish crown, the peasants would be forced to exploit the resource until it (and they) were exhausted, and the full benefit of the resource was given to the aristocracy and the Spanish crown. The result of this was that the Crown coffers grew wildly, but that the colony remained poor, preventing the development of an economy that would support merchants, and the colonies remained economically backward.

Despite the revolution, little has changed. Most resources there are still the property of a fairly small group of aristocrats, or are controlled by the state...which itself is largely dominated by aristocrats. The power and wealth in Mexico is very concentrated at the top, which reduces the options for the middle class and forces many poor into the peasant class.

Mexico is still suffering because of decisions made over 400 years ago in a colonized country

[Alcibiades]

29. right

Much better than I could have said it. Which is why, despite the recent strides made in some areas, the long history of extreme inequality still matters.

[Zookeeper]

33. Great post, Xithras. n/t

[Alcibiades]

35. The comparative study

of colonial development (esp. in Spanish vs. British colonies) has long been of interest to students of development and comparative politics generally. Xithras has nicely summed up what is the consensus view of this body of literature. If you're interested, check out the bibliography to the paper at

http://www.bu.edu/polisci/JGERRING/colonialism.pdf

[Alcibiades]

18. But

With corporate globalization Mexico is becoming more like the US anyway. I hear that the traditional pinatas (donkeys, etc.) are not even being made because all the kids want mutant ninja turtle pinatas.

[KurtNYC]

14. Nope - the real problem is the employers

They have many jobs for undocumented people. These jobs are not open to citizens. In fact if the undocumented people who are in these jobs showed up tomorrow with a green card or SS card they would not be allowed to work.

Granting them legal status will exclude them from the underground economy and create a demand for more undocumented people to replace them. The employers of undocumented people are the source of this problem.

[murray hill farm]

21. i really cannot possibly respond adequately to this on a post..

But, what u have done, is what most in the usa do when they think of mexico..and it keeps us all stuck in seeing mexico as we are presented mexico by our own culture and government...it is a most definite "drinking of the cool aid"..this particular cool aid being the presented and reinforced view that mexicans..all mexicans want to leave mexico and come to the usa...sooooooooo not true. The picture of mexico that we all have here in the usa is a picture of the border towns along the usa/mexico line...and there, yes...u have it exactly....lots of crime and poverty and constant lines of mexicans just living for the day they can get across that border to the "land of milk and honey" that they have come to believe is the usa....and on the other side of the border in the usa...there are LOTS of employers just waiting with glee for them to come and get hired to work for nothing..as it has always been. To keep this going....a constant flow of the cool aid is fed to the mexican poor in the border towns and beyond to keep them believing that a better life awaits on the other side of the border. Mexico does not want to be annexed!!!!!!! Mexico is beautiful and there is a large middle class in mexico. No one starves in mexico. Education is free in mexico and good..all children start school as early as 3 yrs old...but not manditory until 5 yrs...and contunue until they are 18...just like here. All mexicans have free medical and hospitalization and if you are a non citizen, as i was for years there...medicine is free for us too...as is education. The picture you have of the elite rich and surf like poor may have been true 100 years ago in mexico, but that is long gone. Mexicans are very involved in their govt...a much, much larger percent vote than do in the usa. Protests and marches and such are alive and well in mexico. Unions are huge and powerful. There would not be any illegal immigration from mexico that continues as it does today if it were not incouraged both in this country and in the border towns of mexico by the usa. If we want to stop illegal immigration from mexico it is easy to do. Just make it a felony..with large fines and prison time for hiring an illegal immigrant...inforce it...and in a matter of monthes...ALL of the illegals will either return to mexico...or not come here at all. This is a usa institution...this migration to the usa from mexico...and it is fed and nourished by the usa.

[Alcibiades]

22. I'm not sure I have a misunderstanding of Mexico

Granted, I have never been, unless California counts. I am aware that many of the misconceptions you cite are things of the past.

Nonetheless, why do over 40% in Mexico say they would immigrate to the US if they could?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050816-1435-cnsimmigration.html

I acknowledge that the people who are successful in Mexico are not coming here. We are not getting the Mexican middle class. I'm aware of the facts you cite--Mexico has had some successes, for example, in reducing illiteracy. Annexing Mexico would make it no less of a beautiful place, nor would it change the culture of the people.

The change would be a two-way street--annexing Mexico would give us millions more in support of national health care, while eliminating some pervasive problems of the Mexican state, such as currency stability.

[murray hill farm]

26. Mexico, politically...is pulling away from the usa...not closer.

This year, Mexico will elect a new president..and will move politically more to the left and democratic socialism that it ever has in the past. YOu hear the usa govt on occasion criticise the mexican govt's determination to continue to nationalize its oil..saying that that privatization of the oil would allow for the mexican middle class to grow and prosper, etc...but what the usa is really saying is privatize that oil so that we can own it and control it..ha! Central and south america is wise to the manipulating ways of the usa these days...and is pulling away from it as quickly as possible...mexico..being closer, geographically has been slower to do so, buy it is happening..and this years election will be the turning point. Illegal immigration from mexico into the usa, is a usa problem..one that it created itself for its own purposes. All the hype now? Election year in the usa!!!

[Alcibiades]

28. I agree

But I do think that such massive immigration must be a loss for Mexico. Lots of Europeans felt that way about the massive waves of European immigration in the early part of this century (i.e. that Europe was losing and the recipient nations in North and South America were benefiting). I know there are remittances, but I'm talking about more than just cash. Is there a loss to a nation when a large part of its population goes elsewhere?

I agree that annexation would be absolutely unworkable if the Mexican people don't want it. The "sensible" side of me supports something like what you propose, i.e. increased penalties for employers, tougher border enforcement, and perhaps (though I don't remember if you mentioned it) some sort of amnesty. That seems to be the direction we are going anyway. I struggle with this issue--if we are to be a nation, we have to have borders. I cannot just go and work in any country I choose, nor is there an equivalent right for others to come to my country, etc. Yet I'd like to have some positive proposal, something progressive that goes beyond the alternatives we usually hear.

Politically, the Republicans are spinning this as a wedge issue, but they don't realize it's mainly a wedge within their own party, between the rich who want the labor market to be as flexible as the capital markets (read: totally free flow of low-cost labor) and southern folks who dislike immigration for reasons ranging from economics to nationalism to, yes, racism. I think the current policies are bad for American workers, bad for Mexican workers, and good only for a few people at the top. I think we, as a party, need to find the middle ground that is the best for the most people. If we can do that, we can win votes and do good at the same time.

That's the question. Just thinking aloud.

[Xipe Totec]

25. Have Pity for Mexico,

So far from God, so close to the United States.

- Mexican Proverb.

[AlphaCentauri]

30. with a Republican congress

as soon as we take possession of the land we would ask Mexicans to vacate the country

:woohoo: