I went to Duke, please think before you post generalizations.

[Citizen Jane]

My parents were both teachers: one an elementary school teacher the other a college professor at a tiny liberal arts college. We were not rich. They were kind enough to value education and take out a second mortgage to pay for college for me. I paid for my own grad school with a fellowship and loans.

Very few of my friends at Duke were what I would describe as rich, some were, some were decidedly not, and many were in the middle class with huge loans. Were there rich kids there? Yes. Are all kids there rich, no?

Were we "privileged"? Well, I consider it a blessing and a privilege that my parents paid for me to have a first-class education. I also consider myself privileged to have gone to a good public school with friends of all backgrounds, races, genders, means, etc. Was I privileged in a pejorative and sarcastic sense? You've got to be kidding me. I live by the principles that you should help others in any way you can, always give others a way to "save face," and treat everyone with the respect with which you would like to be treated.

Are there jerks at every school who do bad things, yes. I can say this with some authority based on a wide range of experiences with different institutions of higher learning including, but assuredly not limited to, having taught at Emory and Yale Universities.

I am not going to get into the merits of the case here because I don't know the circumstances, I was not there, I hope our justice system can handle it appropriately to the merits of the evidence.

Am I surprised by the party, the behavior, the alleged assault? Sadly, no. But my lack of surprise has little to do with Duke itself and almost everything to do with our current culture and my experiences with humanity in many places.

Have things changed since I went to Duke? Most assuredly, but I have lots of connection to the school and the community which have not been severed.

So please, try to set aside your perception, pre-conceived notions, things your "friends" have said and check whether your accusations of "privilege," "elitism," "racism," etc. with which you paint all of Duke University are based in personal experience and reality or something else.

To paint all members of an institution with a broad brush is dismissive and ill-considered and, in my personal opinion, not progressive at all.

[shenmue]

1. True enough

Sweeping generalizations are a pretty bad idea.

[tularetom]

2. I agree, however

you must realize that in this day and age perception becomes reality, and over the years the administration of Duke University has done little if anything to counter the perception of the school as a haven for the priveleged.

[Citizen Jane]

5. Hmm, you say you agree with me ...

...yet you say that:

"Duke University has done little if anything to counter the perception of the school as a haven for the priveleged"

Just what do you think any university ought to do in order to counter a perception which is not held by all. What is the responsibility of the institution to try to convince people unfamiliar with it of anything?

And while I think that perception may become a false reality in the mind of the undereducated or misinformed/uninformed, that doesn't make it a good thing.

I am not trying to convince anyone that Duke or any other institution of higher learning is anything, I am merely asking people to think before making generalizations. People should question their perceptions. Where do those opinions come from? Whom do they know who is associated with the university in question? What colors their opinions?

When I teach I always caution my students that we can not ever be objective and abandon our experiences and world views, but we can be aware of them.

I don't need to "realize" anything. If you read my post closely you will see that I indicate that I am painfully aware of the reality of the problems on college campuses. It seems to me that your response is: "Yeah, okay, we shouldn't do it, but it is Duke's fault for letting us." I am Duke...as much as anyone there now, anyone employed there, anyone who will be associated with the institution, and I am asking you not to do it but to question your views and their sources and be more aware of things. So consider this an attempt by Duke University to counter your perceptions.

[tularetom]

14. Geez don't be so pedantic

You didn't have to tell me you were a teacher. I was agreeing that it is wrong to stereotype Duke students as arrogant preppies, but I believe that the administration of the university has not done a great deal to counter that perception in the mind of the public.

I am a product of the public schools of the state of Tennessee. Neither of my parents were high school graduates although my father went back to school late in life and earned a BS. I was able to get a college degree (from U. of Maryland in the early sixties) only because of the GI bill. The perception of Duke as a hangout for underachieving preppies was widespread even then.

I don't believe in sweeping generalizations nor do is my intent to engage in some form of class warfare. This is hopefully still America after all; none of us have pedigrees.

I feel bad if have offended you; it was not my intent to mischaracterize all Duke students. I must repeat however, that the perception is out there and those in authority have done little to debunk it.

[Lerkfish]

3. good luck with that. I'm a progressive christian, yet I am unable to stop

people from making sweeping generalizations on religion based on fundie behavior.

I just think people will do that, regardless.

[Citizen Jane]

6. Just because people do something does not make it right.

As a member of the human race I believe it is incumbent upon us all to help each other along. I understand completely what you are saying about Christianity vs. Fundamentalism and acknowledge the problem. However, I still take the "Donna" Quixote approach and try to explain the difference between any religion and its extremes.

I'm not losing sleep over this, I just feel this is an object lesson in why we should not make sweeping generalizations.

[Jigarotta]

12. we are all 5 star General Sweepers in some respect. nt

[Lerkfish]

20. naw, go ahead and tilt at windmills, i was sincere in saying "good luck"

I have found the task sisyphean, but I applaud the effort.

[genie_weenie]

4. I tend to think sweeping generalizations

are apt and great!

They save me the trouble of thinking. :sarcasm:

Excellent, post thanks for the rational and well written post.



BTW, Duke sucks.

[Triana]

7. From what I understand...

..Duke never turns down a student for inability to pay. They have scholarships, and grant and loan programs and sliding scales of payment for those students. If that's true, then all Duke students are certainly not rich or elitist.

I don't blame Duke as a whole for what happened. I do blame the mentality of lacrosse and sports teams nationwide for it, as well as our culture and society in general. What happened could have easily happened at any university. I think the behavior of those guys was unacceptable, if not illegal (underage drinking) and they need to be dealt with harshly for making their school, their team, and their community look bad not just that night but on other previous occasions, and for exacerbating tensions that already existed and that the community and university have been working very hard to alleviate. This crap just set those efforts back a few years, at least.

Underage drinking, wild parties, strippers, and an ongoing reputation for all of it. Illegal? Maybe not, but it is irresponsible, juvenile, increases tensions between the college and community in which it resides (the neighbors in that neighborhood if no one else who are fed up with their wild parties), and made their team - and Duke - look really bad - even if no rape was involved. The shithead boys need to grow up and learn to be responsible teammembers, students, and citizens. If they can't do that, then why are they in college? It seems they haven't graduated from elementary school yet.

And that is no reflection on Duke but rather on THEM. Long-term, Duke needs to crack down on this type of behavior and make it known that is not tolerated because sports teams in general and lacrosse teams in particular have a bad reputation for it, at Duke and elsewhere. And because such activities lead to situations like the one that occured on March 13th - whatever that situation was or who did what or not, it was only a matter of time before something like that happened.

If this makes me too stuffy or fundamentalist, then so be it. But I get sick of the juvenile and irresponsible mentality of school sports teammembers and society's penchant for overlooking it because "they're just young guys having a good time". Really. At WHOSE expense? It's not just a Duke thing, IMO. It's more pervasive than that and people need to stop making exuses for it.

[Citizen Jane]

16. That sums it up for me

Unfortunately for all of us, I agree with you completely.

Sigh.

[Bozita]

8. Thoughtful, thorough, and well done. ... Thanks!

[Neil Lisst]

9. I don't generally care for Duke, or college athletes, or lacrosse players

or strippers, or escorts.

Don't care one way or another, but think there are many possibly true versions of what happened. The DNA evidence is fairly compelling.

Are these guys a bunch of assholes? Probably.

[NNN0LHI]

13. What do you generally think about Mexicans?

I AM JUST KIDDING! See you later.

Don

[Neil Lisst]

15. I'm cool with Mexicans

[DesertRat]

10. My husband went to Duke too

He was from a rural southern town, attended on a merit scholarship. He was the first member of his family to attend college.

[angee_is_mad]

11. and I went to Central

and I'm sure that you agree that on both campuses each has its own generalizations about the other school. I'm not going to even discuss the city's perceptions of both universities.

I'm sure that the genralizations that you see on this board is the same generalizations that the city of Durham has of the school and has always had.

[Citizen Jane]

17. Interesting informed local perspective.

Despite what you might think, I never heard a never negative word about Central while I was at Duke. Instead, I think it was far worse. I never heard Central mentioned. Seriously, no one had eyes for anyone by Carolina. But, worse than that, I think that there was no inter-institutional cooperation while I was there and we were all the worse for it.

I was aware of Central, but I was the exception rather than the rule. I agree that the local perceptions are there, but I also found that while some of the local perceptions were based on generalizations, at least there were quite a few that were also based (positive or negative) on actual experience.

As an aside, I found town-gown relations and racial self-segregation waaaaaay worse in New Haven. It always struck me as ironic that my friends from northeastern states would loudly acclaim their integrated superiority yet be far more segregated than the south. Alas.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!

[Lex]

18. The Durham Prosecutor's parents both graduated from Duke University

which I find interesting. Not sure why, I just found that interesting.

[Hissyspit]

19. I went to UNC and all the stereotypes of Duke are TRUE!

:P

(Actually I would go over to the Duke campus all the time to use the library facilities, because they had a superior collection. The UNC collection was good, but I could always count on finding what I was looking for at the Duke stacks.)