How Mexico treats its "foreigners"

[Krist]

Mexico usually threatens and reprimands US over treatment of illegal immigrants (whom I thoroughly acknowledge as red blooded homo-sapiens of the mammalian genre, just like me), and even their top officials call any action to stop illegal immigration as being "racist" and "xenophobic".

Maybe its time for us to learn from the esteemed policies of the noble, benevolent Mexican republic ?

Mexican constitution even allows minutemen to patrol its borders, round up illegals and hand over to the police ! All in accordance with their constitution.

==============
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=papers&code=06-D_18
==============

FACT 1: Mexico deals harshly not only with illegal immigrants but also metes out heavy handed treatment for legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and even foreign investors.

FACT 2: Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.

FACT 3: Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered "indispensable" include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

FACT 4: Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be "a Mexican citizen by birth." Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.

FACT 5: In accordance with Article 130, immigrants - even legal ones - may not become members of the clergy, either.

FACT 6: Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."

FACT 7: Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen's arrests. Article 16 states, "In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities." In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!

and this is the best part----->

FACT 8: The Mexican constitution states that foreigners - not just illegal immigrants - may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."

[Crazy Guggenheim]

1. .......

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. May I join you?

:popcorn:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

6. Sure I've got plenty.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Krist]

30. Pardon me...

For expecting people to take note of the hypocricy of a foreign government thats encouraging illegal immigration into this country.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

31. I agree with you about the Mexican Government BTW.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Krist]

61. Thanks..

Hope we arent blind to injustice anywhere.

[LostinVA]

78. Hmmmmm

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[SofaKingLiberal]

10. .

.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

14. How ya doing?

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[SofaKingLiberal]

23. busy eating popcorn

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Krist]

34. eh

:shrug:

:popcorn:

[knowbody0]

2. what's your point?

that they deserve less than minimum wage here?

[Betsy Ross]

3. And your point is... n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. The point is that Mexico is slightly more oligarchic than the US.

Dissent, or lack thereof, is more codified down sur.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matariki]

66. I heard Tom Hartmann on AAR discussing this very same list

I wouldn't be so quick to say 'goodbye' to the poster. I'm not sure what conclusion he was drawing from it, except perhaps hypocrisy. It's interesting info anyway.

[Erika]

7. So you like the Mexican Constitution better?

Evidently the immigrants don't.

[KitchenWitch]

9. Erika, I LOL'd at your comment!

:yourock:

[Erika]

25. Thanks n/t

[Berserker]

17. I don't think he or she is talking about immigrants

I think he or she is talking about Mexico and what the country does about Illegal immigrants.
And welcome to DU.

[Bridget Burke]

72. Most of the restrictions mentioned apply to all immigrants to Mexico

Not just the "illegals."

[Kutjara]

8. Just because the system is unjust and corrupt...

...doesn't make the people undeserving of basic human rights.

I mean, if the rest of the world judged US Citizens by the actions of its government, every American travelling overseas would be fair game.

[tocqueville]

11. yep they have allies on the other side of the border...

it's not because the other side doesn't behave that you have to do the same thing...

it's like the torture question. It's not because the others do it, that it excuses you for doing the same thing.

[Krist]

13. Just this..

We dont tell Mexico what its policies must be, so Mexican govt should stop giving us sermons on the way we handle illegal immigrants in our country.

[KitchenWitch]

16. Oh, but we DO tell other countries what their policies should be.

Thus the war in Iraq.

[Erika]

24. Yeah, we all know all about democracy and forcing our

version down their throats (while taking their oil).

We ship in over 2 millions of oil a day from Mexico. Savage said we should nationalize their oil fields so I guess we can nationalize their immigrants.

[Erika]

18. Uh, do we listen?

I'm more concerned with how we treat humans rather than the Mexican government treatment or lectures.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. We tell Mexico what it's policies should be all the time.

Believe me.

[susanna]

15. I was actually thinking about this today...

...seems some of us from north of Mexico can't own property in their world (see FACT 6)...now THAT is not right, IMHO...

I work with a Mexican emigre, and even he chuckles over the ease of immigration into the U.S.A. vs. that of foreigners into Mexico. It was an interesting lesson for me.

[Krist]

53. Its their country, their rules

We dont need to force our laws on them, but we can atleast ask their leaders to stop trashing us as "racists" and "xenophobes".

[RagingInMiami]

19. The illegal immigrants that are swarming the US from Mexico

are a direct result of NAFTA, the trade policy that was designed by American conservatives. I'm sure Mexico's "foreigners" are not poverty-stricken and forced to emigrate as a result of a Mexican-designed trade policy.


Farmers in Mexico have opposed and still oppose NAFTA because the heavy agriculture subsidies for farmers in the United States have put a great deal of downward pressure on Mexican agricultural prices, forcing many farmers out of business. Wages there have decreased by as much as 20 percent in some sectors. NAFTA's approval was quickly followed by an uprising amongst Zapatista revolutionaries, and tension between them and the Mexican government remains a major issue. Furthermore, NAFTA was accompanied by dramatic reduction of the influence of trade unions in Mexico's urban areas. NAFTA has been accompanied by a dramatic increase of illegal immigration from Mexico to the United States; presumably, a significant fraction of these people are farmers forced off their land by bankruptcy. Opposition to NAFTA also comes from environmental, social justice, and other advocacy organizations that believe NAFTA has detrimental non-economic impacts to public health, the environment, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

[TahitiNut]

32. Start with the maquiladoras (even though it goes back far longer).

Over one million Mexicans work in about 3,000 maquiladora plants along Mexico's northern border. Global corporations opened factories along the US-Mexican border in the 1960s and attracted workers from all over Mexico. Low pay (better than nothing or much of Mexico) and no benefits. Over the years, many companies relocated operations to Asia, leaving many thousands unemployed. The maquiladoras have, by hire/fire expansion and contraction created a large number of unemployed in border towns (and shantytowns without water or electricity) where the cost of living is 25-40% higher than most of Mexico. More than 500 of these plants have closed since the Bushoilini regime took office.

Where do we think the workers went? :eyes:

[Krist]

50. so..

we scrap NAFTA to stop illegals ? lol...

[RagingInMiami]

51. No, that we accept illegals

Because we created their poverty.

EDIT: LOL :eyes:

[Krist]

55. Not me, maybe you did.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Krist]

62. Seeing how you cant appreciate subtle humor..

Our govt did some lousy things.. but I didnt.

[FuzzySlippers]

20. M'kay.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[imlost]

22. So what is your point?

The Mexican Government does not represent these Mexican immigrants. Does Bush and his team represent what you believe in? Just because Bush is an idiot, doesn't mean you're one? Just because the US enforces the death penalty, doesn't mean you do. or do you?

No one has ever said the Mexican government is innocent in any of this. If Mexico was such a great country people wouldn't be coming here.

Get of your high horse and go do something productive. Are you Native American?

If Mexico jumps off a bridge, should we? At least Mexico was against the Iraq War.

[KitchenWitch]

26. Hear hear, and welcome to DU!

[Krist]

27. Hypocricy of Vincente Fox

lol.. he preaches on and on about how we should be sensitive to illegal immigrants, but goes on to deport 250,000 illegals per year from his own country using the same grisly tactics he condemns here.

==========
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000881.html
==========

Anti-immigrant sentiment appears to be growing in the United States, Mexican President Vicente Fox said Wednesday, and he urged U.S. officials to act quickly to control movements like the 950-member-strong Minuteman Project on the Mexico-Arizona border.
...

Mexico's National Human Rights Commission recently issued a warning about several new grass-roots movements inspired by Arizona's Proposition 200. Other Mexican officials have cited the Minuteman Project, a plan by activists to patrol the Arizona-Mexico border during April, as a sign of rising extremism.

...

"We totally reject the idea of these migrant-hunting groups," Fox said. "We will use the law, international law and even U.S. law to make sure that these types of groups, which are a minority . . . will not have any opportunity to progress."

...

Fox also harshly criticized the construction of walls along the border, including a new "triple fence" planned for the San Diego area.

"We are convinced that walls don't work. They should be torn down," he said. "No country that is proud of itself should build walls. No one can isolate himself these days."

[Erika]

28. He's W's good buddy

and remember the 2 million barrels of oil a day.

He's just saying "Mr. Bush, tear down those walls"

[catnhatnh]

49. Imagine that....

they won't allow the Nortes to own land or engage in opposing the government....I here they USED to trust us with those rights but then came that ugly affair at the Alamo and they were forced to stiffen their immigration laws while they had half a country left....

[Horse with no Name]

84. ......

:rofl:--------------->Touchdown!

[Ms. Clio]

69. Who the fuck cares what Vicente Fox says?

Like you would even bother learning his name if you weren't in search of a straw man.

[alittlelark]

29. If the corporatists running their country needed EVEN CHEAPER LABOR

They would not treat their borders as they do. The corporatists rule Mexico, as they rule the US.

[0007]

76. Amen!

[EFerrari]

33. So, why do you link to a right wing think tank?

Hmmm?

The United States policy is to torture detainees. Do YOU want to be tarred with that brush?

[TexMexDem]

35. Smells funny

The source you quoted smells of a Fundie site. (although it states its a non-partisan site). The site makes references to the Mexican Constitution but I didn't see anything sourced.

Has anyone really seen what the Mexican Constitution actually states? Anyone study Mexican Constitutional Law? Just wondering..... :patriot: :popcorn:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

37. Welcome to DU.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Dead_Parrot]

38. Try here...

http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html

:)

AbE: :hi: welcome to DU!

[Krist]

44. Great... my source is correct

Can we conclude that they come from a country which is more racist and xenophobic than ours ;)

[Dead_Parrot]

47. What, Spain?

Edit: What do you mean "my source"? Was the Mexican constitution a state secret that a double agent slipped under your door?

:shrug:

Just wondering.

[Krist]

52. My original one..

Centre for Strat studies...

Was trashed earlier as a "right wing think tank"...

Each and every comment it had turned out right.

[Dead_Parrot]

57. And your point is what?

That it's OK for the US to treat people like shit if someone else is allowed to?

Whatever happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"?
Does it now read "People get boiled alive in Uzbekistan, so guess what we've got planned for you!"?

Welcome to Amerikkka.

[Krist]

63. In all fairness

You are not even American and you are telling us how YOU want our country to be.

Kinda wierd dont you think ?

[KitchenWitch]

64. Not any weirder than you not being Mexican

and wanting to tell the Mexican government how to behave.

[LostinVA]

79. She shoots --- SHE SCORES!

[Krist]

86. You got it wrong..

They are telling us what to do with people who break our laws.

[KurtNYC]

77. DP - although the focus of this has been "immigrants" the

real dynamic is employers. There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in the US which are only available to people without legal status. If we gave everyone inside our borders a green card and/or Social Security card then NO ONE in the country would be "elligible" to be hired in these jobs. These employers would need for thousands more people of illegal status to be let into the country. Wal-Mart cannot lock US citizens in its stores overnight. Denny's cannot pay a US citizen $20/day to run the dishwashing machine. Their business models are built on their ability to get that labor for that price. Any solution that does not address the employers is doomed IMHO.

It doesn't matter what Mexico's constitution says. This is about the underground economy in the US.

[Horse with no Name]

85. Oh my

Best laugh of the night.
Thank you!:toast:

[Dead_Parrot]

36. You're right...

The US method is much better - you can bug, execute and permanently lock-up (without trial) your own citizens, not just foreigners.

Go team! :patriot:

[Krist]

39. Is that in our constitution ?

doubt it.

[Dead_Parrot]

43. It's reality.

I'm sure the detained, bugged and dead feel much better knowing they were treated unconstitutionally.

[EFerrari]

45. Torquemada Gonzalez says it is. Why do you hate America? n/t

[KitchenWitch]

41. In other words

The parrot is not dead, it's just resting its eyes.

[EFerrari]

46. LOL!

:rofl:

[mike_c]

40. I have to wonder whether you've ever traveled in mexico...

...or whether you just read RW talking points. I've always found Mexican authorities, including Immigracion officers-- ESPECIALLY Immigracion officers-- to be much more courteous than their U.S. counterparts. I feel more at home in Mexico than I feel in much of Amerika.

[Matariki]

67. These were 'talking points' on Air America - for what it's worth n/t

[VirtualChicano]

42. 3 Things

1, Many of your "Facts" are not Factual, but I'm not going to go into them because I prefer you remain ignorant.

2, Mexico has been invaded and occupied by foreign countries many times, therefore, Mexico must remain careful and suspicious.

3, Mexico has the most liberal immigration laws in all of Latin America and some of the most liberal immigration laws in the world.

I am a naturalized Mexican citizen and I am not complaining and Ive never heard any complaints from the Anglos, Europeans or Asians that I work with and live amongst.

You seriously do not know what you are talking about. You only point out one side of the coin, the side that suits your anti-Mexican stance.

But for every law you list, that isn't inaccurate, there is corresponding laws in place to protect the civil rights of the people.

The one exception is the ownership of natural resources which are owned by the government.

I see you will not be immigrating to Mexico, this is a good thing.

[KitchenWitch]

48. Welcome to DU and thanks for your insight!

:hi:

[Krist]

59. Ad-hominems, the last resort of every scoundrel

Expressing disgust at the inflamatory statements of Mexican leaders, while they themselves preach one thing for us, but practice another is what I wanted to highlight here.

In 2004, Mexico captured 215,695 illegals and deported 211,218 (98%) of them.
US during the same period captured about 1,100,000 illegals and deported 157,281 (14%).

So, Mexico can pass off as a "liberal immigrant friendly" nation while US is just a racistic, xenophobic hell hole ?

And I'm anti-Mexican because I hate hypocritical and racistic attitudes exhibited by some of your leaders ?

Some truths about your president FOX, who IMO is much worse than Bush:

--> President Fox has called U.S. border control efforts in San Diego and Texas “discriminatory.” He said those of us opposed to illegal immigration are part of “minority, xenophobic, discriminatory groups.” And President Fox astounded us all when he declared that illegal aliens in the U.S. “take work that not even blacks want to do.”


MEXICANS TAKE WORK THAT NOT EVEN BLACKS LIKE TO DO ?

Can you tell me how come people in your racism free society, the president himself can issue such a contemptible reference to black people, which bears some implicit assumption that black people are automatically inferior ?

==================

--> President Fox called the Minutemen “migrant hunters,” yet calls Mexican illegal aliens “heroes.” He called the House passage of a provision authorizing the construction of a border fence, “disgraceful and shameful.” He refuses to even recognize that those who cross our border without permission are illegals, infamously telling Sean Hannity, “They are not illegals. They are people that come there to work, to look for a better opportunity.”

==================

--> Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Ernesto Derbez has been equally intemperate and contemptuous of our sovereignty. Derbez called the House-passed immigration reform bill, “stupid and underhanded.” He recently speculated that one cross-border incident in Texas might not have involved Mexicans at all, but American troops masquerading as Mexican soldiers to help drug runners.

[Karmakaze]

54. A quick google shows your source is full of shit!

For example foreigners CAN own property in Mexico, with some restrictions in certain areas:

http://www.sanfelipebaja.com/Foreign_Ownership.htm
http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo14.htm

Aside from that, consider the source. The author of this article, J. Michael Waller, is the same man that wrote "When Does Politics Become Treason?" This article argues that Democratic calls for investigation of Bush admin actions in regardas to the invasion of Iraq, for example, border on treason.

So I don't take this guy very seriously.

[Krist]

60. The more the expletives

The better they make your case look attractive to fellow DUers.

Good luck with your assumption.

[Karmakaze]

70. LOL

good comeback!

Your souce is full of shit, and my post is full of "expletives"!

Good luck with your infil... er I mean membership of DU!

[LostinVA]

80. Quoting a RW source does not make your case attractive ton DUers

[Krist]

82. That RW source had a point

MEXICANS TAKE WORK THAT EVEN BLACKS DONT WANT TO DO - President Vincente Fox.

[Jim Warren]

71. Century 21 in Baja? LOL

Here is the pertinent passage, been there, done that.

For practical purposes, even in unrestricted zones many foreigners and Mexican Nationals, for that matter, prefer to hold their property under a Fideicomiso.

The "for practical purposes" BTW is cheery code for something any longtime expat gets to know real intimately about Mexico: Don't bring nothing here you can't afford to lose.

[TriMetFan]

56. Here are a few facts for you.

A. America is supposed to be a Democracy!
B. Mexico is Federal Republic
C. Mexico is the country where the greatest number of U.S citizens live outside the United States.
and you can read that at :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico
D. When I have travel out of America into Mexico, I have never gotten crap at the boarder for being with my spouse (we are lesbian couple) and having our kids traveling with us. But it never fails that once we are back trying to get into our own Nation our own boarder guarders look at us like we have done something wrong.

[magellan]

65. America is a Federal Republic too

In case you meant to distinguish Mexico from the US.

[Swamp Rat]

68. So, you think you are "free" Krist?

Welcome to DU! :hi:

You think America is the land of the free and the U.S. Constitution is upheld to the letter of the law?

[Krist]

81. Some people are born free, others arent so lucky

Its all in your mind, whether you decide to be a free-thinker or a slave of some rigorous ideology.

Those who indoctrine too much with ideology, left or right, cant think for themselves as they force themselves to agree with what their "ideological masters" have to say.

To me those who blindly follow Teddy, Biden or Boxer are as lousy as those who idolize Bush, Rove & Cheney.

[Bridget Burke]

73. So--the USA should be more like Mexico?

If all your "facts" are true, why didn't you get them from a non-Right Wing source?

Center for Security Policy was founded in 1988 and states that it operates as a non-profit, non-partisan organization committed to the time-tested philosophy of promoting international peace through American strength.

A very influential organization with the Center for Security Policy is the Center's National Security Advisory Council, whose members hold senior positions with the Bush administration.

Center for Security Policy has strong ties with the Republican Party with many members serving senior posts in the Reagan administration and George W. Bush administration. Donald Rumsfeld, currect Secretary of Defense under Bush, is a receipient of the the Center's Keeper of the Flame Award. The Center is not shy in touting its strong ties with the U.S. Government.

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_Security_Policy

[KansDem]

74. "Give me your tired, your poor,...

...Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this sentiment inscribed on the Mexican Statue of Liberty? Do the Mexicans even have a Statue of Liberty? Is Mexico known as a country of immigrants?

Just curious...

[radwriter0555]

75. Actually a lot of what that says is very similiar to the USA... I fail to

see what the problems are?

Sounds reasonable and common actually...

And foreigners can own property and businesses in Mexico. Your fact checker sucks.

[Neil Lisst]

83. If we'd attacked Mexico instead Iraq, we could have liberated it

by now. Then all the post war reconstruction would give all the Mexican laborers plenty of work. It would help build a bigger middle class, and of course, we'd give them a real democracy, not one still run by the descents of conquerors.

[The empressof all]

87. Locking

Please-----No flamebait.