What's wrong with America's high schools?

[Orrin_73]

In today's data-happy era of accountability, testing and No Child Left Behind, here is the most astonishing statistic in the whole field of education: an increasing number of researchers are saying that nearly one out of three public high school students won't graduate, not just in Shelbyville but around the nation.

For Latinos and African-Americans, the rate approaches an alarming 50 percent. Virtually no community, small or large, rural or urban, has escaped the problem.

There is a small but hardy band of researchers who insist the dropout rates don't quite approach those levels. They point to their pet surveys that suggest a rate of only 15 percent to 20 percent.

The dispute is difficult to referee, particularly in the wake of decades of lax accounting by states and schools. But the majority of analysts and lawmakers have come to this consensus: the numbers have remained unchecked at approximately 30 percent through two decades of intense educational reform, and the magnitude of the problem has been consistently, and often willfully, ignored.

What's wrong with America's high schools?

Surely the no child left behind act works :sarcasm: more and more teenagers drop out of high school. This is a disaster for america's future.

[bluestateguy]

1. Oh, that's OK, we'll just warehouse them all in prison,

We'll keep building as many prisons as we need.

Or make 'em join the military. That way they can learn some discipline, patriotism and respect for President Bush!

They don't need none of that book learnin' anyway. They won't amount to anything in life anyway.

:sarcasm:

[Orrin_73]

2. What about wal mart?

does wal mart expect their associates to have an education? :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[0007]

24. Wall-Mart likes to have employees dumb & ignorant and incapable

of telling time.

[porphyrian]

3. Public school is less about education than ever before.

Keep kids out of the workplace, off the streets, and indoctrinate them with the idea that the memorization of greater quantities of standardized data makes you a better student. Kill the love of learning for the sake of doing so and replace it with competition for nothing of substance. Yeah, they care about kids.

[HEyHEY]

16. Nicely put

Couldn't agree more.

When I was in school I did fuck all, it all seemed like such bullshit to me.

I went to college as a mature student, and loved every minute of it. And even college isn't what it used to be.
In the old days, when one went to University, they learned a much broader range, now it's so specialized... blech

[no_hypocrisy]

21. You omitted preventing a generation of an informed electorate and

citizens. The kids today will not likely participate in local or federal elections, get involved in their communities, and/or get involved in their kids' schools. In general, they will end up being isolated in their homes, cut off from their neighbors and community. American in name only.

I do endorse your point about the kids not being encouraged to be independent, critical thinkers. Without this skill, they are doomed to be someone's (or something's) slaves until they die.

[400Years]

26. yep, its all about turning them into worker drones

nothing else

[Slit Skirt]

4. both of my children tested gifted in arizona

1 year later we are in colorado and their gifted program consisted of giving the kids more homework (i kid you not)

I barely got my 20yr old through high school and my 17 yr old might not make it.
Both kids turned their back on education...because it is not EDUCATION. Education is suppose to be fun, about learning, exploring, challenging kids to be at their best.

what a joke!

what they do now is teach tests..that's all.
my sister lives in texas where her children are going through the same thing. They were left with governor asshole bush's education program. She struggles everyday with them.

there is a plan to dumb our children down. They don't want them to challenge authority or think critically. It's a damn shame

[mitchtv]

5. when I was a kid,(50's) if you got in trouble at school

the big threat was making you parents come to school. The last thing you wanted was your father to find out. Lota of kids got hit. Now it's different. Discipline is now an option, as Americans the rules are guidlines now. History? for what? I enjoyed learning. Maybe they should have more trade schools.
spelling

[demosincebirth]

8. I agree with ya. In high school discipline was not an option.

You fucked up...they would call your daddy, and in my case, there would be hell to pay. Also, you couldn't wear what some kids wear today.

[ThomWV]

6. Service Industry Jobs Do Not Demand An Education ... Hence

There is no reason for the state to provide an education. When an education is not being provided in the schools students do not attend. Its really that simple, I believe.

[demosincebirth]

9. I think many teachers would dispute you statement.

[ThomWV]

11. Who Walks Away From Something Of Value That Is Free?

Is our educational system the only place where something of great value is being offered up for free but a large portion of those who we try to give this good thing reject it? Try that with beer and see what happens. If the beer is any good it will be taken. Try it with real estate. Try it with roller skates, try it with anything. If young people are not taking advantage of our educational system you may safely assume there is no education there to be had.

[CrispyQ]

7. I read a few years ago

that a college education at the time (2000?) was equivelant to a high school education in the mid-to-late-50's. I know in my little school district in the 60s & 70s I got a better & more liberal education than my hip cousins in a bigger district got. Overall, I've done better for it, too.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

31. Well, my father didn't learn anything about

engineering when he was in high school, so I don't think his high school experience was equivalent to my college degree.

[jody]

10. A factor is many students do not want to learn. They disrupt classes for

others and inhibit learning. That may not be true in all schools but it's true in many.

[400Years]

27. most of what it "taught" is irrelevant and even wrong

take a look at the farce that is passed of as U.S. history.

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. Check out the drop out rates in Texas while ** was Gov.

[Yupster]

20. Where I taught it was impossible

to get an accurate drop-out rate.

Every year there were 600 kids in the freshman class and 300 kids in th graduating class, but the administration listed a drop-out rate of less than 10 %.

The thing is they would only count a kid as dropped out if they came into the office and dropped out.

If a kid just didn't return from summer vacation he wasn't listed as a drop-out. I asked the sperintendent once and he explained that if a kid doesn't return from summer vacation he doesn't necessarily have to be a drop-out. He could have moved or he could be in private school so they don't count them.

Of course most kids dropped out by just not returning after the summer so it was hopeless trying to get any number, but comparing the freshman and senior classes over a long period of time was the most accurate way to me.

[comradebillyboy]

13. As a high school teacher I say

that the nations colleges of education are the main problem. The schools, teachers and administrators are adversly influenced by the ed schools shoddy scholarship and wishful thinking based research.

We don't need more 'programs' we need teachers who can actually understand math and English and other core content. We need smaller classes. At my school the average, non special ed, teacher has about 180-190 students. Our incoming freshmen can't do basic arithmatic without a calculator and are in no way ready for high school algebra, and most of their elementary school teachers can't do arithmatic without a calculator either. If our standards are high the administration complains that we flunk too many students. My principal told me that I was a good teacher because she did not get many parent complaints about me. She has never actually observed me teach. Forty five percent of my calculus students drop in the first semester because I am too hard, but the calculus II teacher says I am too easy. But overall I get less shit if I don't make waves.

Sorry for the rant, but I used to be an engineer, and I know that damn few of my students will be able to really compete in a tough academic environment. I feel like I am cheating the kids by not demanding more, but if I am more demanding I get grief.

[lovuian]

18. I admire teachers what a mess you go through

America needs to really straighten our act up here at home...

[annabanana]

22. not to pick nits, but

"Our incoming freshmen can't do basic arithmatic without a calculator "

~and apparently our Math teachers can't do basic spelling~

arithmetic

[donco6]

23. As a school administrator, I say . . .

you're right.

We now only need smaller class sizes, we need smaller schools altogether. We've enlarged and enlarged to maximize the economies of scale, but in doing so, we lost any sense of ownership over the school. When administrators have literally 5,000 sets of parents to answer to, suddenly "not making waves" becomes the value. But government demands we run schools, "more like a business." So they get bigger and bigger so that we can show that we're "maximizing your tax dollar."

But where's the concern for the "product?" If we *were* a factory, and we were turning out shoddy product, a business would retool the plant with capital money. Instead, the government just wants to punish us and defund the money we are already getting! Like bad soviet-era plant bosses, they believe that by simply demanding it, somehow the quality will improve.

We need to retool school. No school district should be larger than 10,000. No individual school - including high school - should exceed 400 kids. There should be a variety of pedagogy offered among schools - some that are hands-on, some that are textbook driven, some that are individualized curriculum, hell - even core knowledge if people want it.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

35. It sounds like they've been learning the new new math. n/t

[OneBlueSky]

14. American schools are designed to teach students how to NOT think . . .

to politicians, a populace that thinks is a dangerous mob . . . so today's schools -- through mechanisms such as the NCLB Act -- are designed to ensure that students DO NOT learn to think for themselves . . . but to instead accept what the "authorities" tell them -- be they teachers, politicians, or the media . . . what they want is a passive, non-critital citizenry that "gets along by going along" . . . and that's all . . .

there was a time when the purpose of education was to teach students not just facts, but how to think for themselves and become their own lifelong teachers . . . seems that purpose has changed . . . in 2005 America, the purpose of education is more to teach students to become passive and non-critical bullshit receptors . . .

[leftofthedial]

15. we need to arm all the teachers for starters

then we need more stringent standards and all schools that fail should have their budgets cut

we need prayer and the pledge of allegiance every fifteen minutes in all three classes (readin, rithmatic and creationism).

[LibDemAlways]

17. I live in a suburban "blue ribbon" district in Calif. and

am convinced that what's wrong with the schools here is that the administrators operate under the assumption that "one education fits all" and try to force every kid into the same mold. Not ready for algebra in 8th grade? Tough. The state requires it. It's that kind of rigid unyielding state "standard" that contributes to the high dropout rate. Treat a teenager not as an individual with unique needs but as another warm body taking up space in a classroom and you've created a recipe for failure.

[mduffy31]

19. My mother is a teacher

...and at a curriculum meeting they were going over the things that they needed to focus on for the NCLB testing. As she was putting it, they were told that they should be teaching "for the test." That the students just needed to know that 2+2=4, not why it does, just that it does. So we are bringing up a group of kids that will just accept facts, not question the validity of them.

[noonwitch]

25. What's wrong with the parents of these teens?

My personal observations of successfull school districts vs unsuccessful ones has little to do with the quality of the teachers, though, because I have observed good and bad in both types of schools.

In large, poor cities like Detroit, or in rural poor areas, a large number of the students are from poor families. Education is not necessarily valued in a family where people are struggling to meet their daily needs. You have parents who never talk to their kids' teachers, who never attend conferences, who don't monitor their kids' studies or homework, who let their kids skip school, etc. You have schools that are using 20 year old textbooks (actually, my middle class suburban schools used really old history books, too)and put 35 kids in each classroom.

Even in the worst schools, kids and parents who want a good education can find one. There are always teachers who will work with a kid who is dedicated, and like in nursing homes, the kid who's parents show up and talk to the teacher get the most attention.

[mike923]

28. Bingo....

Most don't have two parents.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

36. Very true...parents make a bigger difference than

the teachers.

[The Flaming Red Head]

29. They don't drop out. They get pushed out

If you don't fit the cookie cutter mold you don't get to stay.

[Lochloosa]

30. No Music. No Shop. No Drivers Ed. No Choir. No Art. No Critical

Thinking! There is your answer.

[pitohui]

32. hasn't it always been that way

i went to a public high school of 1,500, only 200 in any given year of which were seniors

my understanding at that time was that in louisiana 40 percent of people would drop out of high school, hell, technically i was one of them, but in that day, high school was just baby-sitting, and many people could drop out and be admitted immediately into college if their ACT score was high enough

and a great many other people cut to the chase and simply got a GED if they were not college bound

i doubt it's much different now, since it is more difficult to drop out high school/go to college by passing a test (for instance the state college i attended no longer allows this) then more people are eliminated from high school by the old-fashioned method of just kicking them out for bullshit like having aspirin on their person not issued by a school nurse

society apparently profits by making people feel stupid and thus more willing to pay for crap like tutors, private schools, extra tests, etc, it's a job program really for the educational system

[porphyrian]

33. The worst part is that they've killed the fun of learning.

More and more I hear people talking about "thinking" as a hassle or a burden. Thinking! I guess we don't have to wonder where our future fast food cashiers will come from...

[Squatch]

34. Lawsuit nation.

Too dangerous for a teacher to actually hold a student accountable for his or her performance.

[Neil Lisst]

37. No, it's much simpler than that.

Students reflect the attitudes they learn at home, good or bad. Some strive to attain no matter what their family unit is like, but most follow in the path their family establishes. Students who come from homes that value education and require dedication to it are still doing fine.

There are far too many parents or guardians who either cannot or will not bring their children to education with an open, seeking mind.