Fukuyama

[pagam]

francis fukuyama was on npr today lamenting the fact that he is now considered a traitior by his fellow neocons. He was shocked that they could not understand that reasonable and intelligent people can change their mind. The host of the show Mechelle something stated that during the 2004 campaign reoublicans dubbed anyone who "changed their mind was a flip/flopper. francis, get over your self, you and your minions have the blood of american and iraquis on your hands.

[Olney Blue]

1. Fukuyama was fuckuyama?

[pagam]

3. He is a neocon

who is now criticizing the bushito administration invasion of iraq

[C_U_L8R]

12. whatchu saying about my momma ?

:-)

(sorry ...I ..could ..not ..resist)

[Olney Blue]

13. ROFL

:rofl:

[Mr_Spock]

17. fuk-u-mama?

:rofl:

Why does that make me chuckle?

[malaise]

2. Any tape of that?

Hope his next book is The End of Neo-liberalism. Damn this is too good.

[Earth_First]

4. So you don't believe that he is sincere in his regrets?

People do, in fact change for the better. Sometimes for the worse. He's certainly guilty of crafting some very questionable policy for the neoconservatives. Time will tell how sincere his regrets are, and if he is honest and sincere, I would welcome his thoughts towards creating a better outcome from devestating policy that he helped craft.

We'll see. If that makes me a freeper, or disruptor...so be it.

[pagam]

7. My point was

tha t he was shocked by the way he is now being treated by his fellow neocons. He can change his mind all he wants. I dont care if he is sincere or not.

[Crunchy Frog]

8. I've read and listened to some of his recent thinking.

His main interest seems to be in exonerating himself while still managing to smear some strawman image that he has of liberals. He also thinks that it was neocons who came up with the ideas of the enlightenment.

There's plenty of ex-conservatives (David Brock, Arriana Huffington) or even people who still consider themselves to be conservative (Paul Craig Roberts) who I have enormous respect for. Francis Fuckshismama is not one of them. Maybe if he spent less time whining.

I don't think you're a Freeper. I just don't agree with you on this.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. The Enlightenment was a period long before there were any neocons.

Or any movement known as neoconservatism. I'm not sure I understand how neocons could have been the source of The Enlightenment.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. Basically, he said that

neocons were the ones who came up with the idea of the universality of human rights. I was being lazy and engaging in a kind of shorthand in that post.

I'm referring to this particular line of his in a recent article. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/magazine/neo.html?ei=5090&en=4126fa38fefd80de&ex=1298005200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

What is needed now are new ideas, neither neoconservative nor realist, for how America is to relate to the rest of the world — ideas that retain the neoconservative belief in the universality of human rights, but without its illusions about the efficacy of American power and hegemony to bring these ends about.

Maybe it's just me, but I was under the impression that a belief in "the universality of human rights" was an idea of the Enlightenment and not of neoconservatism. I may have gotten that idea from reading the Declaration of Independence, or something like that.

[Zenlitened]

15. I wouldn't welcome his thoughts at all. He has proven himself to be...

... utterly incompetent. Utterly.

I think if he had a shred of decency about him, he'd apologize then show some humility by keeping his mouth closed for a while, spend some time listening and learning from his mistakes.

Instead we get him whining and whining and whining. Well guess what, Mr. Fukuyama? Your feelings don't really matter at all, at this point. You've played a leading role in spreading death and ruin on two continents -- at least -- and frankly your sense of well-being just doesn't mean shit right now.

[MADem]

5. No one likes him, because he was WRONG in the first place

No one likes a loser who fucks it up for everyone else!!!

We KNEW he was full of it, but his tale convinced the nitwits on the right that they could stomp heads and get away with it.

And people who buy off on a con man's BS feel cheated.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. You know what they say about laying down with dogs.

I have little sympathy for him. He still spouts the most outrageous drivel, and in the end, it's still all about him.

[patrice]

9. Does this mean that History isn't over afterall?

[Bucky]

10. F.Fuku apparently got tired of all that blood on his hands. How cute.

Ugh. I guess it's nice to know that at least some of them have human limits. Now if only they had the capacity to anticipate reasonable outcomes from predictable behaviors... Or maybe he just didn't figure any of it would matter, what with history being over and all. Sorry Francis, one lightbulb coming on still doesn't make you NOT a dimwit.

[madame defarge]

11. Lighten up (on) Francis...

Sheesh you guys are a tough crowd. I give the guy some credit for speaking out to refute the rest of the neocons. I've read a few reviews of his book as well as the long article in NYTimes and he's got some good points about what he meant in his original position on neo conservatism as well as how badly the current regime of idiots has screwed it up. He's a smart person & I'd rather he lean towards our views than against us. Some people do change & become enlightened. I chose to not hold grudges and welcome them to enlightenment.

[Mr_Spock]

19. I think it's all good that he's seen the light

His name is rather easy to mangle though ;))

[Crunchy Frog]

23. I don't give him any credit at all.

I haven't seen him speaking out against the neocons. I've basically seen him worrying about the potential for backlash against neocon ideas that he still thinks are pretty good, but just haven't been enacted effectively.

Please see this recent article by him. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/magazine/neo.html?ei=5090&en=4126fa38fefd80de&ex=1298005200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[salvorhardin]

14. Oh come on

Fukuyama is *not* Paul Wolfowitz or Dick Cheney. He's an academician, and a damn fine one even if we don't agree with his conclusions. I don't think he can be held accountable for what the Bush administration did anymore than Wagner or Nietzsche can be held accountable for Hitler.

[Roland99]

18. Wasn't Wolfowitz considered an academician, too?

[salvorhardin]

21. One crafted and set policy

The other did not.

[Roland99]

20. Talk of the Nation - Changing Sides in the Debate on Iraq

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5334366