Help! On illegal immigration, and constitutional rights

[willows]

Ok, I need to know where the majority of the DU stands, or where anyone really stands on the immigration issue.

Right now it's now a civil violation..
There is one thing where I can understand protesting for doing jobs American citizens aren't doing, that need to be done.
Therefore a work visa.
Which would make everything nice and legal, if you came for , under, and because of that work visa.

For instance:
I want to go to New Zealand, I will get either/or both a student/work visa, legally, It may take a while to get a work visa since I really don't have anything work related to offer for long term stay.

Now, the majority of the protestors in a national day of action billed as a "campaign for immigrants' dignity, and ~11million of people involved in this are <i>illegal</i>immigrants.
Standing law says that.
That's a prosecutable offense, no?
Doesn't it subvert U.S. Policy to extend the right to protest to non-citizens, to allow any illegal persons to congregate en masse to not be charged as they should; as illegal immigrants?

Other issues regarding that is the rights to education, scholarships, govt. funding, jobs, etc.
And how workplaces are regulated. Currently those rights are extended to known illegal immigrants.

I'd have less issue, if the many solutions didn't involve making it easier/less difficult for the current illegal immigrants over the people that came before.

When I say these things I'm told that I'm being racist, or classist or somesuch, that I'm not FOR THE PEOPLE, which as a supposed democrat I should be for.
But how can these people be THE PEOPLE, when they are in this country illegally.
The laws for rights typically stand for people who are citizens, or on their way to be right?

I'm not sure if this whole issue goes back to how the irish, felt about the black slaves being freed, and then how everyone felt about the increase in immigration of the hispanics and asians, but it sort of seems like it.
help me out!?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_re_us/immigration_protests

[ret5hd]

1. guess it depends on what the word 'inalienable' means to you.

[willows]

4. Not bestowed by the govt.

So that would be in line with main legal arguments for ending slavery right?

I see that it says inalienable rights are not transferable or even given by man/law/govt. but those rights are protected by man/law/govt.

So, just by having a law that says if you're not a citizen you cannot work here, unless you have proper papers, is that going against the constitution? Against your inalienable right to pursue happiness via a job, family security, food, etc?

I'm supposing this is a question for adhering to the letter and or spirit of a law...and supposedly not getting caught up in text.

[Bridget Burke]

9. You brought up "The Right To Protest"....

That IS guaranteed by the First Amendment. It does not say anything about "Citizens & Legal Residents."

[EFerrari]

2. Immigration from Mexico to the US is rigged for the corporatists,

to ensure that they have a steady stream of cheap labor. If you make it nearly impossible for hungry people to follow the law, they will break it and then you, Mr. Halliburton, can hire them for next to nothing and forget about OSHA.

[Post]

3. What a Turnout!

The organizers should be the envy of anyone looking to be involved in social activism. The left didn't see it coming...and couldn't get this kind of response out for anti-war. What gives? More here: http://postanapology.blogspot.com/2006/04/ducking-immigration-even-libs-dont-get.html#links

[Richard Steele]

5. Are you sure you're in the right thread here? nm

[Cobalt Violet]

6. Did the Tyson plant close the day of the anti-war march?

Did any US business close the day of the anti-war march? No one tried to accommodate US workers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. If they were given amnesty and made citizens they would be "the people".

Just like the rest of us who are "the people" by accident of birth.

[radio4progressives]

17. Our Constitution already Recognizes all People as "We the People"

Our constitution provides protections and rights to ALL PEOPLE, not soley intended for "citizens".

[Bridget Burke]

8. Should the Guantanamo inmates have human rights?

Prisoners of War have rights, even though they may be detained until the war is over. Of course, those picked up during an illegal war don't count. So they can languish until the "War on Terror" is over--without being charged, without any real defense.

The government does not "Extend the Right to Protest" to anybody. Legal protest is the right of everyone here. Civil Disobedience is something else again--but that's not the subject.

Do you propose arresting all the protesters & checking their "papers"? Most native born Americans do not carry their birth certificates at all times--& I KNOW that some of the protesters were native born.

Yes, this issue is bringing up a lot of xenophobia.

[willows]

12. hm

Well, the majority of my post were questioning these things.
Simply, I'm asking what are the rules for illegal immigrants (The 'cannots').
Can illegal immigrants have the same rights as citizens in a court case? etc
I mean, People are talking about making it a criminal offense to 'aid' an illegal immigrant.

There are a lot of 'natural human rights' that regardless of them being inalienable, or 'natural', you wouldn't be able to 'freely' excersice if it werent for it being unlawful to take your freedom away.

You bring up Quantanamo, and war on terror. We're being told that the US takes detainees to countries were torture is allowed, where it is legal for a person to not have rights to trial etc.

In europe there are many democratic countries that has their press more or less controlled by the govt. U.S. has freedom of the press instead, where the govt. doesn't have control.

So with those three examples, does it not seem as if you only have rights because the govt. is cooperative?

I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just asking questions, if it's bringing up xenophobia, that doesn't mean I am, or that my intent was to post something people would take offense to.

[Cleita]

14. I would venture that basic human rights would come into

play here, but since we don't extend that courtesy to even our own citizens like the homeless, I don't hold much hope.

[radio4progressives]

16. Even Non-Citizens are Protected by the United States Bill of Rights...

Fourteenth Amendment says thus:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property,wihtout due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisidiction the equal protection of the laws.(added emphasis)

Note the term "PERSON" in bold text - not only do citizens have Constitutionally protected rights, so do Non-Citizens. As they should.

Also, in the Ninth Amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people

(added text "women" and emphasis)

And an added reminder excerpted from the The Declaration of Independence:

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men {and Women}are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness...

[Cleita]

13. You bring up the point about some of the protesters were

native born. Actually, I believe that a majority of them were native born, the children of the undocumented worker as well as their classmates and neighbors who are American citizens. I wish someone would do a rough census on this.

[radio4progressives]

10. It seems to me Xenophobia Should not be supported here on DU.

We dealt with this issue for about two solid weeks...

the bottom line and most important message was: spreading hate, bigotry and xenophobic rhetoric is not the way to deal with the issue rationally.

Wars happen because people refuse to try to and understand cultural differences. What is being fomented by the xenophobes is kind of cultural and ethnic conflict.. Throughout Human history, and most especially here in the United States, have shown that these conflicts have a way of escalating to actual warfare.

Study, history. Study Cultures. Study our own history. THINK. and then THINK again. Stop fomenting hatred and fear by listening carefully. And then Listen again only more carefully before spewing more vitrolic rhetoric.

[willows]

11. I don't believe I am

Hm, do you believe that I'm 'spewing vitrolic rhetoric'?

[Cleita]

15. I agree with you, but my ignore list grows daily because

of the xenophobia. Until recently, I never had anyone on ignore.