will I vote for Hillary if she's the candidate?...yes

[mopaul]

although she's not my favorite person, i feel it's the right thing to do. i voted for gore and kerry but i didn't feel thrilled either time.

i'll vote for her if ONLY to watch the republicans choke on it.

[InsultComicDog]

1. Sure, in the general election, but...

...there are much better choices at this point...

[helderheid]

2. I'll vote for any Dem that makes it out of the primary.

[CrispyQ]

11. Your Wiretap sticker is a hit!

Check it out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=51853&mesg_id=51853


A couple of others asked about it, too, so I directed them to your site. :)

[helderheid]

12. Hey thank you!!!!

I'm going to divide the profits between DU and WhiteRoseSociety! :)

[helderheid]

17. just checked the sales report - 3 sold

that's $.75 for DU and $.75 for White Rose Society

Gotta lotta sellin' ta do!

[TriMetFan]

3. That is the way it should be.

How in the hell does every one here wonder how we lost the Nation to the nazirepuks. They stood together and that is something we got to learn how to do to win back everything, because if we don't, the Nation that we have loved is going to finally die on the vine.

[mopaul]

4. i once said i never would, but i'm a flip flopper

[helderheid]

15. That's okay. :)

hehehe

[TriMetFan]

20. I'm glad to hear this.

It doesn't matter if the Demo is H. Clinton, Kerry, Dean, Clark, Boxer or the real President Al Gore, we just need to learn to stick together our Nation needs us now more then ever.

[INdemo]

8. That's right

another republican President will pretty much cast the fatal blow.But try telling that to the Republican wimps.
But we must never forget the Democrats did not lose the last two Presidential elections

[William769]

5. I've always enjoyed your posts.

I think this is one of the better ones. :)

[tuckessee]

6. She'd better start stridently opposing the illegal, insane Iraq War

or she's not getting jack from me or lots of other people I know.

To vote for anyone who supports the war is to dip one's hands in buckets of innocent blood.

[helderheid]

16. and there's no real difference between Gore and Bush anyway.

:sarcasm:

[MadHound]

7. Gee, another pro-war, pro-corporate shill

To replace the pro-war, pro-corporate shill that we already have. My, my, how easily people will settle for shit just so long as the ever important D is behind their name:eyes: Sorry, I want real change in this country, not simply more of the same ol' same ol'.

[mopaul]

9. i should be ashamed of myself, i know

and i repeat, i truly hated voting for gore and kerry, and kerry supported the war too.

it's just me, you do what you want.

[MuseRider]

10. Well you did find

something positive about having to vote for her (watching the repubs choke).

Hey, I missed you last weekend and I really wanted to go. Maybe next time, I had a weekend full of meetings. Loved the pictures and responses from those who went.

[TriMetFan]

22. Well if you really do want change then you will have to vote

for a Democratic. Then when the Democrats take over that is when you and the rest of us that do want change can start helping may-be like the Green Party. But until then we need to suck it up and try to get our Nation back from those Nazi-Republicans.

[MadHound]

25. LOL, that's what they keep saying friend, yet here we are

With a pro-war candidate as our front-runner right now:eyes:

I've worked long and hard for the Democratic party over the past thirty plus years, yet it seems that all of work is for naught, as the Democrats have become increasingly more manipulated by their corporate masters. I've been down the road of "change the party from within" too many times to count, and what has it gotten me? Marginlized and ignored by a party that has gone so far to the right that they're actually proposing to run a pro-war, former Goldwater Girl, and doing so with a straight face. Sorry, but I don't buy that "work from within" crap anymore, because all it does is continue to enable the corporatistas who dominate the party.

The only thing that the party does seem to respond to is lack of voters, threats from a third party. FDR is a classic example of this. Back in the day when he started working on his first re-election, he and the Democratic party were worried sick about the Socialists, a third party who in the day made the Greens look like nothing. They had major state and regional success, and were poised to go national in '36. FDR was scared shitless that they would take away enough votes from him to throw the election to the Republicans so he came up with a sound strategy, steal a couple of the Socialist's major positions and make them his own. That is exactly what he did, and that is how we wound up with both Social Security and Unemployment Insurance, and FDR wound up getting re-elected.


So I've come to the conclusion that this is the only thing the Democratic party will respond to. Yes, I will vote for whom I consider to be the best candidate in the primaries, but if Hillary or some other warhawk gets the nod, I will be going third party. Morally I cannot vote for the continued death of both Americans and Iraqis, and perhaps this action by myselfs and millions of other anti-war liberals will finally wake the party up. Because the whole "work from within" schtick certainly hasn't, nor is it likely to in the future.

[TriMetFan]

26. I'm glad and happy for your opinion. But my friend

if we don't fight to get our Nation back you and I will not have a opinion. That is what being a Democratic is all about. We are able to speak our mind. But this time we can't and shouldn't let our Nation die on this rotten vine the Nazi-Republicans have put her on. I do understand you. I don't care for H. Clinton, but I will vote for her if this is the choice that we have. I really do hope that some one else better then her wins. But I think it is very important that we as a party focus on 2006 first.

[MadHound]

32. But you are going by the mistaken premise that

Fighting for one's country is solely the peragotive of the Democratic party. It isn't, nor should it be. One can fight for one's country just as effectively, if not more so, outside the two major parties, or even outside of political parties altogether. Witness Ghandi, MLK and many others. They were not wed to either party, or any political party for that matter.

Don't you get it yet, don't you understand? We are living under the two party/same corporate master system of government, where it doesn't matter what party you belong to so much as who is paying out your cash. This is how we wind up with Hillary, Lieberman, et al. And quite frankly, corporate America is and has been playing a game of good cop/bad cop for decades now. We all moaned, groaned and suffered under Reagan/Bush, and yet when the huzzahs from the election of Clinton died down, what did we hear and see? A coporatista president, ripping away our social safety net, allowing greater, larger mergers, both media and otherwise, selling our jobs to foreign countries, invading our privacy to an ever greater degree, and killing almost 500,000 innocent men women and children via Iraqi sanctions and thrice weekly bombing runs over Iraq.

Now, here we are with arguably one of the worst presidents in history, and we are suffering under him. Suffering so much that we are willing to blindly throw in our lot with arguably one of the most hawkish, corporate presidential candidates in our history, all because she has that magic D behind her name:eyes: Please, stop playing this game. We need real change in this country, not faux change, not feel good change, but real change that will throw corporate America out of our government. A bought and paid for political whore won't do that, I don't care what letter is behind their name. Sure, they'll do some feel good things, make minor changes, but still and all, coporate America will continue, under the wings of a Democrat, to buy up this once free country lock, stock and barrel. And the death and devestation that is the Iraq war will continue, but hey, it's OK, because now there is a Democrat running the show right:eyes: Sorry friend, been there, played that game, not doing it anymore.

[TriMetFan]

34. Well don't do it if that is what you want.

At least you have that choice at this time, but who knows what it will be in the next few years if we don't get this nazi-republican party out of office. Also I think you got to remember that this Nation is a 2 party Nation at this time. I don't care for H. Clinton. But she would be a lot better then Bush any old given day. I wish there was a 3rd party that could truly give the Democrats and the nazi-republicans a run for the vote but we don't. You have to learn how to crawl before you can run. And like I wrote before we got to think about 2006 first.

[Peace Patriot]

13. We have a job to do--restore our right to vote, for ourselves and future

generations. So it doesn't much matter who Diebold and ES&S and their rightwing backers choose as our candidate. That person will have to at least pay lip service to progressive values. That's how we get it done.

The easiest and quickest way is by a bill in Congress--such as Russ Holt's HR 550, which will stop the corporate privatization of our elections, and reverse it, by (among other things) banning undisclosed software. I'd go for that, as long as it wasn't some kind of Trojan Horse that might disempower the states (prep to mandating electronic voting from the top--bad idea). Right now, there are active election reform movements doing great things in multiple states, and I'd rather see American Revolution II happen this way, at the grass roots level, with the American people freeing THEMSELVES. But the situation is so bad--with so many illegitimate office holders from the president on down, and so many corrupt election officials--that any chance we can get to reverse it quickly (provided state power and variety is preserved) should be taken.

Personally, I think Hillary has already made her deal to be the War/Corporate Democrat who will be installed in '08. They need her for a number of reasons (to get a military Draft, for one thing). We should stay focused on Priority No. 1: restoring our right to vote--and not permit a center/left split (which will be a sore temptation, I assure you). The main purpose of the fascists putting Hillary in for four years would be to fracture the center/left, create civil disorder, and place the blame for Bush's financial and foreign policy disasters on the Democrats, prep to an outright fascist dictatorship in '12. I think that's why they're putting all these extra-legal powers in place--spying, torture, the president inventing his own laws. Hillary may not use them, but she won't anathematize and disavow them and restore constitutional gov't. She's too far gone as a fascist herself. It's a perilous game she's playing. WE have to be smart, see it for what it is, and go all out for our last chance to restore transparent elections.

That's my read on it. I think we should fight like crazy for our ideas and candidates in the primaries, to keep the pressure on the War/Corporate Democrats, but try to be realistic and very strategic when we lose. Another thing that installing Hillary will do for the fascists is to take the steam out of the election reform movement. We. must. not. let. that. happen! Same for this year. I think they'll give us modest (very modest) gains in Congress to take the spotlight off this very fraudulent and manipulated electronic voting system. Beware!

[Greyhound]

14. Depends on who else i sin the running. Her nomination will

force millions of us to look at 3rd parties (maybe even a re:puke:)

[MoJoWorkin]

18. I will vote for her, but I don't want her as a candidate---

It is the same with Claire McCaskill here in MO. She ruined herself for me in 2004 by her use of false right wing talking points against then Gov. Holden, and her changing her stance on choice, as the election drew nearer(It is called pandering, I believe.) I will still vote for her against Talent--anyone but NO Talent.

In both cases (and it pains me, as I love to see women in office) I would much prefer another choice--no DLC'ers need apply. Boxer over Clinton, any day, for example. I have found that Boxer and I agree on many more of the issues, and she doesn't do that "pandering" thing.

[WI_DEM]

19. of course if she is the nominee, I'll vote for her, but I hope we don't

have to.

[ThomWV]

21. So Would I .... But I Would Not Be Happy About It

Yes I would vote. I will never not vote, but I would not vote for her with any joy in my heart and were she to win, something I seriously doubt is possible, I would be happy because it was not a Republican, at least not one in name.

[TriMetFan]

23. And I agree with you.

If I have to vote for her I will hold my nose and cast my vote for her.

[Norwood]

28. I'm with both of you, unless....

Her choice of running mate is someone like Lieberman, then I could not in good conscience vote for her.

[LSK]

24. of course in the General Election

But certainly NOT in the primaries.

[Catherine Vincent]

27. Same here.

Although I rather she run as vice president.

[Nikki Stone 1]

29. I'll vote for a gecko with a D after its name

Considering the Pugs have had THEIR lizard in there for 6 years and counting....

[Generator]

30. The biggest problem with the Democrats and Americans in general

is living in denial. I will not aid this state of denial by fooling myself, pretending, praying, hoping or whatever else you need to come up with to convince yourself Hillary Rodham Clinton has a chance in hell of being president. I would rather write in the name MoPaul first. At least I would be honest in knowing you aren't going to win but and I'd rather have you anyway. I'm sick of dynasties. I'm sick of those in denial that this country needs more than even one more Clinton in the white house to save it. New blood or more blood is really what it comes down to.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. I won't. I've never voted for a Republican. Even those with a (D)

after their name. Her pro-war stance makes even the run of the mill VichyDems look progressive.

[ronnykmarshall]

33. I'd like to watch Rush's head explode ....

if Hillary wins.

I'll be dancing in the street when ANY Democrat wins the presidency .... and party like it's 1992!!!

[DanCa]

35. Mopaul I am with you

she's not my first choice, i dont think she'll garner us one red state but I do believe that if the party nominates I'll fall on my sword and vote. Note I have nothing personal against Senator Clinton I just think that she is such a polarizing force she could do more harm than good.