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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 07:37 PM
Original message
Lt Col Kwiatkowski: I was actually against the war when I was in the ...
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 07:39 PM by understandinglife
... Pentagon, and the reason had to do with what I felt to be lies, not so much lies told to the American people, but lies, in fact, promulgated on us inside the Pentagon. I worked in Near East-South Asia Policy. Doug Fyffe was our boss, over me and 1,000 other people in Policy. The Office of Special Plans had been formed from our office, staffed with political appointees, and they were producing, in the fall of 2002 and ’03, and the winter and spring of 2003, talking points for us to use in our own papers, and those talking points did not match the intelligence that we had previously used to put together our papers and our work. So, I felt that we were being lied to.

Now, it was made worse when I saw the president and vice president
make speeches and heard what they were saying because it seemed as if they were also speaking from these same talking points. And so, that means, in my view, they were also lying to the American people.


And on this fax, it was a short, one-note thing, from Schultz to Rummy. Basically, we have to get together and talk about what we do after the victory in Iraq, and this was in the summer of 2002, long before even the president and the vice president had begun their round of why we fight-type propaganda speeches.


Oh, there’s a couple different levels, but I think, for guys like Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, a lot of the neo-conservatives, even George W. Bush and certainly Cheney, the vision is that we are not really a republic anymore. We’re certainly not a limited state. We are the world’s most important and all-powerful state, and that we have certain rights. Yes, we have certain responsibilities, but I think the rights are what drive them. And those rights include the right to do what we want, to get what we need, to have what we want to have. I think that’s what it is and, you know, we’ve built very massive mega-bases, permanent. These are permanent military bases in Iraq. We’ve done that in other places, as well, in the Middle East, but certainly these - this construction project in Iraq, in fact most of the money has been for military construction of - for our use. I think that’s a big part of it, shifting our footprint.

And certainly, even long before George W. Bush, the Pentagon has been interested in, from a global perspective, shifting and reshaping our global military footprint, and Mesopotamia is just absolutely, you know, wonderful. It is the most strategic location. I don’t care if you’re talking about water, trade routes, oil, our neighbors, our friends, people that may be threats in the future that we want to leverage. Iraq is perfect for all those things. And so, from their perspective, from the neo-conservative perspective, there is this geo-political reshaping that needs to go on, and Iraq is part of that. And so, we make the decision and we do the thing, and we did the thing. And we’ve built the bases, and we’re not leaving Iraq for the - you know, for all that.


Link:
http://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1069


'nuf said.

It is, indeed, January, 1775 - for those who actually value what America was supposed to mean.


If You're pro-Bu$h, You're not only Anti-America, You're a warmongering imperialist







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PerceptionManagement Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. She got promoted?
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The "Col" was shortform for Lt Col .. but, since it seems to concern ...
... you, I've edited the OP.
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cain_7777 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Breaking news! Bush lied, oh, wait, thats really old news. Sorry
I think more and more people will begin to jump Bushco's sinking ship.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. you might want to find out a little bit about her before you make
such silly statements
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Another military leader (Abu Garhib) speaks out:
One Woman's Army : The Commanding General of Abu Ghraib Tells Her Story by Janis Karpinski & Steven Strasser

I wonder if we could line 'em all up on a panel or in testimony to the Senate. Would be interesting to watch the neocons spin in the wind.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. She is one BRAVE female!!! I'm surprised she hasn't been gitmoed.
On the other hand, her story hasn't exactly flooded the CM (of course).

I've read many of her articles relating to the neocon coup. So disturbing were her experiences that she courageously spreads the truth,...without a doubt to her possible peril.

:patriot: I salute you, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski. Hope you don't mind if I call you Lt. Col. K. :patriot:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. link to the writings of Karen Kwiatkowski
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thank you, kindly, for posting that site.
She is one of the few heroes logged in my book. :patriot: I imagine, one day, she will go down in American History as a notable heroine advancing the rescue of a nation once recognized as a beacon of hope.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. A snowflake story (and K&R)
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 08:20 PM by troubleinwinter
A coal tit and a dove were sitting together on the branch of a tree.

"Do you know the weight of a snowflake?" asked the coal tit.

"Well!" laughed the dove. "Of course! It weighs nothing at all." And secretly he was thinking that, of course, even a coal tit ought to know that!

"In that case," said the coal tit, "I must tell you a surprising story.

"One cold night I was sitting on the branch of a fir tree, when it started to snow. I had nothing better to do, so I started counting the snowflakes as they landed on the twigs and pine needles of my branch.

I counted up to three million, seven hundred and forty one thousand, nine hundred and fifty two. When the three million, seven hundred and forty one thousand, nine hundred and fifty third snowflake dropped onto my branch, weighing, as you say, nothing at all, the branch broke off and I had to fly away."

The coal tit smiled at the dove and flew away.

The dove thought carefully for several minutes, and finally said to himself, "Perhaps only one person's voice is needed for peace to come to the world."

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That's a keeper.
I'll remember it in troubled times. :hug:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. "Perhaps only one person's voice is needed for peace to come to the world.
Perfect.

Thank you!


Peace.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. That reminds me of a story, with a much less edifying
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 11:05 PM by tblue37
conclusion.

A beech tree and a birch tree were arguing over a sapling that had grown up between them. The beech tree was sure it was a son of a beech. The birch tree insisted it was a son of a birch.

This argument went on for quite a while, until finally a woodpecker flew by, and the two trees asked him for his objective opinion.

The bird tested the little sapling, and then said, "This is neither a son of a beech nor a son of a birch. In fact, it's the finest little piece of ash I have ever stuck my pecker into!"

(Sorry.)


(BTW, I wish I knew how to make this entirely irrelevant but cool image actually show up in my post. Can anyone tell me how?)
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Found this on Google....




sent you a private message with the URL
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can't wait to see the documentary "why we fight"
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 08:52 PM by ShortnFiery
Have I confused personel or doesn't she have a role in this documentary?

http://www.thinkingpeace.com/pages/arts2/arts234.html
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. She is one of the people interviewed at depth in it
I read her stuff when she was sending articles to Col. Hackworth's site. I still have copies but I'd need her permission to make them availiable (copyright & fair use)

They make interesting reading and I really felt for her because she struck me as a traditional, straight-arrow republican and she was very uncomfortable with what was going on.

Bush is in for a real rough ride because I thin she's more typical of your average republican than Bushco will ever be.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. She has some special things to say about Col Hackworth, as well as, ...
... about her Republican "roots," in the CSPAN interview. It's all available at the link in the OP.

The more folk we can get to listen to her, the sooner we can begin rebuilding the Republic.


Peace.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I arose a little early this AM for The Washington Journal ...
(much easier if you're on the east coast) and caught Brian Lamb interviewing her. I was impressed, and I'm not easily impressed. She's the real deal - the genuine article. Unfortunately no opening of "Why we Fight" is close to my area yet, but I check often. :-)
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. If you have a free version of Real Player and a something other ...
... than dialup, you can download "Why We Fight" from this site:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8494.htm


Peace.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks! I have broadband.
You're very thoughtful and I appreciate. :hi: :yourock:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Glad to be of service.
:hi:

Thank you.


Peace.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. Wow, add my thanks to that. I just watched the film.
I really wish more people could hear, or read a transcript of, Eisenhower's farewell address. I remember when I was growing up the phrase "Military-Industrial Complex" was one that was associated with "hippies" and "radicals", and was often quoted mockingly. It was quite a number of years before I learned that Eisenhower had first used the phrase, and a few more before I realized the important context. A shame that the phrase thrived as a cliche so far outside that context that the deeper meaning was allowed to fade from our awareness.

If you want to go spreading anti-war propaganda, just print up some leaflets with the full text of Eisenhower's speech and spread them around.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. I often come to the same conclusion-
over,and over. It seems to me, it has everthing to do with resources. These resources we fight over change, but it is the same old, same old-war.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
19. She's been out there trying to expose the neocons
from the beginning. She's always had the inside scoop.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. Where were these OSP talking points originating? A foreign intel agency.
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 07:45 AM by leveymg
Some of them, according to the Indictment in the Larry Franklin OSP-APIAC spy case, were coming straight from the Mossad chief of station in Washington, DC. These "suggestions" were being funneled through agents in place, such as Franklin, and agents of influence at AIPAC to American decision-makers. See, Lawrence Franklin Indictment, pp. 23-24, para. 6., http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/FranklinSupersedingIndictment.pdf; also, see, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/15/12176/9231

The indictment portrays Franklin salting files with Israeli-provided information about alleged Iranian WMDS. Shades of the Niger yellowcake forgeries. This literally was a case of espionage. Considering the disaster in Iraq, the neocons can be fairly accused of treason.

Mark G. Levey
OSP-AIPAC SPY CASE REVEALS ISRAELI PLOT
Wed Jun 15, 2005 14:39
64.140.158.199
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:a9UJBZWZ6rgJ:www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_israeli_sp ying.html+Franklin+Indictment+Israeli+Plot&hl=en

OSP-AIPAC SPY CASE REVEALS ISRAELI PLOT TO PLANT IRAN WMD DATA

Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 09:17:06 PDT

Details revealed yesterday in the indictment against accused Pentagon spy Larry Franklin implicate Israel in a plot to illegally influence United States policy toward Iran. Counts in the indictment show that the Franklin prosecution is not a conventional spy case involving the passing of documents to a foreign agent. Instead, it appears that the OSP-AIPAC espionage conspiracy involved efforts by Israel to use American neocons to "cook the books" on Iranian WMDs, much as occurred earlier with false documents fed to the Bush Administration to justify the March 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Published details about the indictment unsealed yesterday against Franklin show that the FBI busted up a plot by an Israeli intelligence officer and two AIPAC lobbyists to advance the career of Franklin, get him "by the elbow of the President", and to plant information provided by Mossad in Pentagon documents about Iran.

The following article in the New York Sun was linked in Laura Rozen's blog, WarandPiececom. Rozen is a well-informed spectator on the emerging spy case. That case confims that the FBI has been investigating long-suspected espionage activities in the United States of persons associated with Israel's ruling Likud government. The indictment shows that Frankin, who was the Iran desk officer within Douglas Feith's now disbanded Pentagon policy office, secretly conspired with a contact at the Israeli Embassy to influence U.S. policy concerning an alleged Iranian nuclear weapons program. Rozen describes the article below as "the most comprehensive take I've seen on the unsealed Frankin indictment". See, in particular, the bottom five paragraphs in the report.

Details of a Plot Unveiled in Case Against Franklin

BY ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
June 14, 2005
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/15374

WASHINGTON - An analyst for the Pentagon, Lawrence Franklin, conspired to funnel classified information to Israel during a series of meetings with two lobbyists for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and a top diplomat from the Israeli Embassy, according to a grand jury indictment that was unsealed yesterday.

The indictment says Mr. Franklin sought the help of a senior lobbyist for Aipac in getting a job at the National Security Council; that he enlisted the Israeli diplomat to write a letter for his daughter to ease her travels in the Middle East, and that he discussed with that diplomat weapons tests for a Middle Eastern country. Coffees were sipped, sandwiches purchased, and at one point the Israeli diplomat gave Mr. Franklin a gift card.

The grand jury's indictment charges Mr. Franklin, who has served as a desk officer on Iran at the Office of the Secretary of Defense, with six counts, including mishandling classified information, communicating defense information to individuals not authorized to receive it, and, most serious, "a conspiracy to communicate classified information to agent and representative of a foreign government, without specific authorization."

The FBI probe into Mr. Franklin and two Aipac lobbyists, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, has attracted considerable press attention since the story was leaked in August last year. In April, Aipac terminated the employment of Mr. Rosen, who served as the organization's director of foreign policy, and Mr. Weissman, who was one of Aipac's top Iran policy analysts.

The 20-page indictment filed initially on May 26, 2005, in the U.S. district court of Alexandria, Va., details meetings Mr. Franklin had with two unindicted co-conspirators, not named in the court document but widely known to be Messrs. Rosen and Weissman. The indictment also describes a series of meetings with a foreign official, also widely known to be the
Israeli Embassy's chief political officer, Naor Gilon. Mr. Gilon remains to this day the embassy's point of contact with the Bush administration on Iran policy.

Despite a wealth of fresh details on the dates, times, and locations of those conversations, the indictment is vague on exactly what Mr. Franklin is alleged to have passed on to the Israelis and the lobbyists. For example, it refers to conversations about a "certain Middle Eastern country," widely known to be Iran. The indictment says that Mr. Franklin faxed one of the lobbyists a "classified appendix to the classified draft internal policy document defendant had previously discussed" with the two
lobbyists.

One source familiar with the document described it as a "list of horribles about Iran. The sorts of things most people knew already, such as Iran's sponsorship of Hezbollah." Mr. Franklin's attorney last month said the document did not contain classified material.

The indictment states that Mr. Franklin tried to enlist Mr. Rosen's help in getting him a job at the National Security Council. Mr. Rosen, referred to as co-conspirator 1, said on February 14, 2003, that he would see what he could do to get Mr. Franklin a job "by the elbow of the president."

That incident stands out because Mr. Franklin's defenders have said that Mr. Franklin sought out the two Aipac lobbyists in order to get threat information to the White House.

The indictment also alleges that Mr. Gilon may have influenced Mr. Franklin's work. In a meeting on May 23, 2003, at the Pentagon Officer's Athletic Club, Messrs. Franklin and Gilon, who was referred to in the indictment as "FO," for foreign official, discussed European views on Iran - referred to as the "Middle Eastern country" - and its nuclear program.

Following the meeting, the indictment says Mr. Franklin drafted an action memo to his superiors "incorporating suggestions made by the FO during the meeting."

All told, the indictment lists 14 times between August 15, 2002, and June 23, 2004, that Mr. Franklin met with Mr. Gilon. The frequency of the meetings and phone calls suggests that Mr. Franklin did not need Messrs. Rosen and Weissman to reach the government of Israel.

- Mark G. Levey


\\\\\\\\\

Larry Franklin's indictment made public
Jerusalem Post, Israel - Jun 13, 2005
Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin has been indicted on charges he leaked classified military information to employees of AIPAC, according to court papers made ...
Charges against Pentagon spy revealed ISN
Brosh: US seeks business advantage over Israel Globes Online
Pentagon official indicted for leaking classified info to AIPAC Ha'aretz

_________________________________________

(Response to: understandinglife (1000+ posts) Mon Apr-03-06 08:37 PM
Original message
http://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1069
Lt Col Kwiatkowski: I was actually against the war when I was in the ...
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 08:39 PM by understandinglife
... Pentagon, and the reason had to do with what I felt to be lies, not so much lies told to the American people, but lies, in fact, promulgated on us inside the Pentagon. I worked in Near East-South Asia Policy. Doug Fyffe was our boss, over me and 1,000 other people in Policy. The Office of Special Plans had been formed from our office, staffed with political appointees, and they were producing, in the fall of 2002 and ’03, and the winter and spring of 2003, talking points for us to use in our own papers, and those talking points did not match the intelligence that we had previously used to put together our papers and our work. So, I felt that we were being lied to.

Now, it was made worse when I saw the president and vice president make speeches and heard what they were saying because it seemed as if they were also speaking from these same talking points. And so, that means, in my view, they were also lying to the American people.)

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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Just ranting
We have an Administration heavily invested in the oil business. Cheney heads secret energy policy meetings and energy prices go through the roof, oh that's just a coincidence. The permanent bases being built will at some point be ceded to the Iraqi people. That point will come when the voters tell their Congressional representatives enough is enough, both in blood and tax dollars. The Iraqis live there full time, and will remain there long after we're gone. The same thing happened in Vietnam. The lost treasure and life will never be recovered. Our tarnished reputation will take years to be restored. The Greed Oil Pollution party will go back under the rock from which it emanated, and only then will this nation be able to invent an environmentally acceptable alternative energy resource. Until then, more of us will be forced to work for minimum wage. Corporate feudalism will reign supreme. The gap between the oil gangsters, their corporate cohorts and everyone else who has to work for a living will grow.
Bigotry, fear and appealing to the lowest instincts can only go so far. When the great mass of Americans realize they have been duped, the Mussolini remedy could be come into play. It all depends how desperate we the people get. Our history as a nation suggests throwing things into harbors. Let's start with the electronic voting machines. Envision the liars, crooks, losers, burnouts, crackpots and cheap opportunists in stocks in the town square where we can throw rotten tomatoes and assault them with the truth. Our President is a nut.:rant:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. IMHO, that's a realistic assessment and set of solutions, not a rant.
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 07:54 AM by leveymg
But, I bet it felt good to get it out in one long breath. Yes?

Welcome to DU, Wizard.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thanks
Thanks for the welcome. Yes it felt good, and less expensive than talking to a shrink while saving the trip and an hour on the couch. Yes It's environmentally sound policy to let it out at DU.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Ranting priviledges. Just one of the benefits of membership.
DU - don't lose your mind without it.:crazy: :toast: :+
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. "Our history as a nation suggests throwing things into harbors. Let's ...
... start with the electronic voting machines."

Excellent.

Welcome to DU!


Peace.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
23. In 2003 Lt Col Kwiatkowski had a fantastic a fantastic 3 part article that
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 08:04 AM by OmmmSweetOmmm
ran in all places American Conservative Magazine about the manipulation of Intelligence in the run-up to the war. Here is a link to the reprint in Military Week

In Rumsfeld's Shop

http://www.militaryweek.com/kk120103.shtml





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larryepke Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
24. I think there's a typo in this transcript.
"Doug Fyffe" should be "Doug Feith," who was the actual head of the Office of Special Plans.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Correct and correct.
Thanks. :thumbsup:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. I wish we could get her out front more...
She has a very important story to tell. And she was right in the middle of it all.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Her and others. We need a real news network.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
32. Traitor! Let's Swift Boat her Ass!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. Saddam purcasing plutonium - Sadamm-mushroom clouds...
Bush bullsh*t to go to war
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
34. She was in Why We Fight
And that was a great interview on c-span but it was on at the same time Amy Goodman was speaking on c-span 2
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. this is not a surprise.
At the time of BUsh's invasion and push for war, it had been reported that Rummy had to do a Putsch to get the generals to go along with Bush's war plans.
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. Lt Col Kwiatkowski interviews are sad but necessary window into what is
happening to the military that is supposed to protect the American people, not the war and oil profiteers and the sick, perverted Illuminati, Skull and Bones and PNAC anti-humans.

Did you read the sections of her interviews that talk about the women soldiers who died of dehydration??


We really do need to support our troops from the bushco cabal trying to destroy America.
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