When is Howard Dean going to talk about the Dem. vision?

[Quixote1818]

We have so many ideas to offer yet they never get talked about. Attacking Bush and the corrupt Republican congress is fine to a point but if we want to win big this year our leadership needs to start talking about our vision and drill it into peoples heads.

As of yet I am not very impressed with Dean, but I am reserving judgment based on how well he puts our ideas out their in the future.

[madfloridian]

1. He decided we don't have one.

:eyes:

[Quixote1818]

7. It sure seems that way

nt

[madfloridian]

8. Are you aware of the word sarcasm.

Just wondering. This is the lowest kind of attack to make on a week the Democrats are facing such pressure. They have all been fighting. There have been blogs all over about the DNC fundraising and organizing at state levels. If you don't keep up then you shut not gripe.

The meeting in Phoenix helped them start getting together the new agenda, and they are not ready to come out with it yet. Why don't you post about Hillary and when she is coming out with the DLC agenda called the American Dream Initiative? Why just Dean?

Ask Hillary if she and her cohorts in the DLC plan to coordinate with Dean and the DNC. Betcha not.

This is kind of low blow when they have such big fights coming up. Keep up with what he is doing, then you don't need to post flamebait.

[madfloridian]

2. On 2nd thought there are a lot of folks I am not impressed with.

But I don't start threads saying so. Our Democrats have huge battles coming up this week...Alito hearings start Monday, and more.

But if you want to play a game of "guess who doesn't impress me", I am ready.

I think it is childish, but I will play that game.

[sandnsea]

3. Hell just froze over

We agree on something. :rofl:

[madfloridian]

5. LOL

Good night. Time to sign off on that one.

:rofl:

[Quixote1818]

9. You are only saying that because you love Dean

had I said I am not impressed with Hillary Clinton or some other unpopular person on DU everyone would be chiming right in patting me on the back. I think it's childish to subdue debate by calling someone who disagrees with you childish. The fact is you attack anyone who ever has ANY tiny amount of criticism of Howard Dean.

Look, Dean likes to play the "We can't win in Iraq" Democratic Debby Downer card but that backfires every time with the American People because it's not leadership. Mithra on the other hand comes up with a plan and gets respect.

If you don't want to debate what leadership is then fine but don't say something is childish just because you walk in lock step with Dean no matter how average he is.

My question was simple: "When is Dean going to talk about our vision"

Can we discuss that rather than name call?

[madfloridian]

10. Your post was flamebait.

This is not right.

[Quixote1818]

13. No, my post was in response to this article

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles?id=n20060107021709990001

and this paragraph specifically:

"If the Democrats had any leadership or any message, they could be poised for a good year," Bond said. "But in the absence of that, they have not been able to capitalize on Republican woes.

It rang true to me. Dems are all over the place and it's up to Dean to bring a united message much like the Republicans did with the contract with America back in 94. We can't win by only attacking the Republicans we have to have a vision.

Vision, vision, vision, vision, vision!!!!!! Thats what wins elections!

[madfloridian]

15. Well, read up on who you are quoting.

Those are right wing talking points right now. There is an agenda coming, and I think Dean will present some very unique ideas that will flip some DLC type wigs.

But I resent posts like this very much. They are not necessary, and if you read anything here or kept up with the mails from the DNC, you would know they are working on the 06 agenda while being undermined by the right wing of the party.

That said...I am not happy with Clark's stance on Iraq. I do not think we can win there as he advocates, and I read about his casual attitude toward white phosphorus...just about like he denied depleted uranium was harmful.

So I never start stuff like this, but I will be glad to contribute my thoughts and research. Tit for tat.

[Quixote1818]

16. I know that and I agree with them 100%

I also heard this talked about on Air America and Randi Rhodes show several weeks ago. It's a personal observation of mine and I think it's a Democratic weakness. I watched Dean on Meet the Press and when Russert gave him a chance to talk about our vision he declined. All he had to do was touch on a few things but instead he looked clueless. When it comes to Iraq, Dean only criticizes Bush but never seems to give any plan or ideas about what should be done. The American people see right through that kind of thing.

Sure Dem's have ideas but compared to Republicans Democrats suck at getting our message out! We simply suck at it!

As far as Clark's plan, he doesn't claim we can win in Iraq. He is looking for a way out in which we can save face. It's a very complicated situation with a lot of players who have influence over the region. If it doesn't work then we just get out. I agree with you about depleted uranium. White phosphorus is supposed to be used to illuminate the area but not as a weapon.

[madfloridian]

11. I "love" my husband. I appreciate Dean and other Democrats.

It is very childish to say things like "you love Dean and can not stand criticism."

It is trying to get people mad, and it does not work anymore.

You apparently are not reading all the things they are doing, so I am backing off.

[sandnsea]

12. I see it like this

Here's a post with some key Democratic issues, where the poster is wondering why the Democrats don't have a message. Well how does the poster think he listed the key Democratic issues, if there's no message. He has a list to post because it's the message he's been hearing. These kinds of posts are flat idiotic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2355219

Now, I see you have a Clark avatar. I have to conclude that means you listen to the good general an awful lot. The General is talking about Iraq. So perhaps you're basing your conclusion that the Democrats have no message on who you are choosing to listen to. It is not Dean's job to formulate policy. Everybody pretty much agreed on that when he went in as DNC Chair. He was to raise money and organize. That seems to be moving along, not as rapidly as I would like, but moving along just the same. But as for a message or vision or whatever you want to call it, it's out there. You have to listen to a variety of Democrats, and be willing to hear what they have to say.

[madfloridian]

14. If you continue along these lines.....

then I will be freer to post some things I am thinking about someone and I doubt you want to hear them. I never start things like that, but stuff like this raises my hackles.

[Horse with no Name]

4. You are mistaken

Dr. Dean talks about the Democratic vision.
It just is never reported by the *cough cough* mainstream media.
The message is out there and obviously some people are listening.
Polls have shown that the majority would prefer a Democratic-led Congress.

[KharmaTrain]

6. Do You Give Out Your Game Plan Before You Know The Players?

We don't know whose even running in the elections in 2006...the primaries will tell a lot about where the party is and the electorate is. Which issues are the ones that get the most traction? The war? Economy? Corruption? And then that's the flavor of the moment...moods can change before November.

For the past year, Dr. Dean has been working on building up state and local parties...a very much needed change from McAuliffe. Many parties that had financial and organizational problems in the past are able to overcome them this year (which will pay off) and also has left Dr. Dean with a bunch of political chits that he can play later.

The Repugnicans would love for Dean and the DNC to come out with some platform right now. It's far enough out from the election that the spin and hate machines could distort and confuse the issues. Right now the GOOP is starting to unravel, why give them something to rally around?

If Dr. Dean is smart, he'll come out with a strong national platform/campaign during the final stretches of the election...September, October...when people are starting to pay attention and the "winning" issues are easier to define.

I'm no DFA'er or shall be, but I have been following what Dr. Dean is doing and the man deserves credit for the job he's done so far...and to give him time to transform enough of the party to show some very positive results in November. Stay tuned...

[rucky]

17. What vision are you searching for?

that's really vague.

[bklyncowgirl]

18. I believe they're still working on building a consensus within the party

Howard Dean, as we all know, is a man who has alot to say on the issues. By all accounts, he's been working on trying to forge some sort of consensus within the party on a series of issues but that is not an easy task.

Let's say Dean, on his own, says--we're going to push for universal health insurance--a single payer system. He is immediately be attacked by fellow Democrat, Senator A, whose state is home to one of the biggest HMOs. The story of the day becomes not "Democrats to Push for National Health Insurance" but "Senator A Chides DNC Chairman for Reckless National Health Insurance Statement" reiterating the concept that not only do the Democrats not have a plan but that they can't agree on lunch.

It sounded to me like he was trying to get a compromise going when he made that statement about the US not being able to win in Iraq. He plan was sort of a compromise between Murtha's six month withdrawal and other more vague strategies. It backfired because Democrats who support the war struck back at him for saying we aren't going to win this thing (I agree with Dean, by the way)

Donkeys are independent, stubborn beasts.

[sandnsea]

19. Independent stubborn beasts

Ya know, that is a whole campaign that could just revitalize our image in just the right way. We have divergent opinions because we're independent stubborn beasts. We're mule-headed and will never concede on your right to live your life, independently and privately. Education, jobs, small business, so you can be independent too. Universal health care so our businesses can be independent and free to compete globally. It could have just the right mix of giving ourselves cover on our cat herding problem and redirecting the party to things people really care about, their right to independently control their lives. That is really what all those cultural issues are about, (except for the most extreme fundie), people feeling squeezed by the government and lashing out in illogical and unhelpful ways.

Ya think?

:shrug: