At the Library today - -Grrrrrrrrrrrr

[Minnesota Libra]

I went to one of my favorite places today – the library – and came away with the feeling that I’m living on a totally different planet than most everyone else.

I checked three books out, one of which as was a small book entitled “Uniting and Strengthening America By Providing Appropriate Tools Required To Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA Patriot Act) Act of 2001”

During my inquiries as to whether they had the “New and Improved Patriot Act” as I put it to the librarian I was told, “That is in the reference department. We prefer you read that here at the library.” My comment to that was, “Why? What’s wrong ith taking it home to study it?"

The woman standing in the line next to me checking out her books butted into the conversation uninvited of course and said, “If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.”

Well, I’ve got a cold, I fel like a warmed over peice of ...., and I’ve heard that statement just one too many times.

I turned to the woman with a voice absolutely dripping with :sarcasm: and said, “Lady I don’t know what country you’re from but the country I remember was nothing like this. In my country if a person was suspected of doing wrong the government had to go to a judge and get a court order to start gathering evidence. With a court order and not before, they could tap my phone, search my residence, search my records, gather information from other people and sources, and even search me. In the country I was from my government then had to charge me with a specific crime in a court of law, I as given legal representation, and 12 of my fellow citizens listened to the government’s evidence and in the end either found me guilty or innocent. Apparently I’m in the middle of one horrible nightmare though that I can’t seem to wake up from because in your country things are totally different. I feel like I’ve gone back in time to Nazi Germany. This government of yours can search my home, search my records, search me, put me in jail for absolutely no reason, deny me legal representation, and keep me incarcerated for as long as they darn well feel like it, without ever bothering to charge me with a crime. They can torture me for absolutely no reason and to get away with all this all your government has to do is label me an enemy combatant. Now, until you can tell me how to wake up from this nightmare and get back to my own country where I was innocent until proven guilty why don’t you get back to doing whatever in the crap you were doing and leave me the f*** alone.”

No one else in earshot said a word but there were 10 or 11 people that could hear my voice and the majority were nodding their head.

Question to everyone. Was I too over the top?? In a way I wish I had held my tongue and just walked away from her but that little tirade popped right out there before I knew what was happening.

[wakeme2008]

1. good come back... Long but good

:)

[electropop]

82. Maybe you scared some sense into her.

I doubt it, but maybe you at least gave a bit of courage to the 10 or 11 who were nodding with you. Most people don't realize that we are in the majority, a stronger majority every day. We feel isolated and scared, and hearing a voice in the wilderness is so encouraging.

[Iris]

122. It was a Julia Sugarbaker comeback! We need to bring those kinds of

comebacks back!

And, btw, some libraries take precautions on behalf of their patrons - they might not want to check the Patriot Act material out to you so that way they won't have your name in a database. Also, I've heard some libraries like you to return books as soon as possible and pay fines so that those records can than be purged.

[Mad_Dem_X]

145. Julia wouldn't have dropped the F bomb; however..

great comeback nonetheless. People need to wake the hell up.

[Iris]

157. Even Julia might be tempted to drop the F-bomb these days!

[efhmc]

2. Great job. I wish I had been there. Love It!!!!

[Beaverhausen]

3. Over the top?

:toast: :applause: :woohoo:

[monktonman]

4. right on!

[liveoaktx]

100. Made this into an Audio Podcast (MP3) with Minnesota's permission

because it was such a great smackdown

[fooj]

5. Libra...I think your response was perfect. Kudos.

Many of us feel the same way that you do.

Peace.

[donco6]

6. Well, you're REALLY on the list now.

But I'd say it was worth it.

[BR_Parkway]

7. That is exactly the right way to handle it - silence would imply consent

(but make sure you get the books back on time, surely the fines could be piled up quickly if someone were wanting to get back at you)

[bluerum]

8. Bravo. We got your back. nt

[MuseRider]

9. Think of it this way,

you either pissed her off so much that she will stew over it for months and get a well deserved ulcer from it or she will think about it and re-evaluate her position.

No you were not over the top, you were honest. We have to speak out while we still can.

Well done. :applause:

[MadMaddie]

10. No...you were not over the top...

We have been to polite and silenced way too long....people like this women feel that they have the right to but into your business (your discussion with the librarian)and it's none of their damn business.

Good for you....I along with others will continue to speak out and call these facist supporters out-They Hate America and they hate the American way of life....

Here's to you and all of those people that are stepping up to the plate!!:toast:

[Whoa_Nelly]

11. You were AWESOME!

Am bookmarking and memorizing your rant!

Perfect! Just perfect! :hug: and mega :woohoo:

[T Wolf]

12. Nowhere near the top.

If everyone who felt like we do would take the type of assertive stance that you did, maybe some of these braindead Bushbots would pause for a second to question themselves.

I applaud your response.

[400Years]

13. You rock! You should feel good about what you said.

I hate when people say stupid shit like that lady said.

It's funny because republicans go around saying how bad the government is at doing things and then want to turn around and give it all of this power over our lives.

[Nutmegger]

14. Good for you! Damn people. . . . .

Just like that fools who say "oh, oh, oh they can wiretap me! I have nothing to hide!" - sickos. Sure, pad me down every time I walk on the bus because I have nothing to hide. Check my bank / library records, I sure as hell don't have anything to hide! Oh, just a note on that, I checked the the Communist Manifest for a school report I was working on but there's nothing wrong with that. Turn this whole effing country into a police state because we don't have anything to hide.

Sick bastards.

[AllegroRondo]

15. "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"

my standard answer has become

"well, then you wont mind if I look through your purse."

[T Wolf]

24. I like that. nm

[ClayZ]

56. Perfect! I will keep that in my box of tools!

[redwitch]

73. excellent ( said in her best Jon Stewart voice)

I hop I get an opportunity to use that one, it's a stunner!

[Minnesota Libra]

75. I like this idea of suggesting I go through the persons purse/pockets.....

.....it's much nicer and puts the issue right back on them. Good going!! I'll keep this one for future use. :hug: :bounce; :toast: :hi:

[electropop]

83. Thanks for that! I'll use it!

:woohoo:

[bleedingheart]

116. that is a superb reply...

[Sydnie]

120. That is a great response too

I will use that myself, if you don't mind.

[CountAllVotes]

16. No you spoke the truth!

I had a similar experience. Some old man was saying that the reason we were in Iraq was because of "those towers falling". I went off the deep end and said, "Didn't you hear your GOD * say that Saddam Hussein had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11?!!!"

He said, "Now don't get me going now!"

I just walked away after that. Stressful times and much ignorance is to be found in good old USA sadly. :(

So, no I don't blame you one bit and I hope you are feeling better soon!

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!

:kick:

[Marymarg]

17. Uninvited comment

When one injects herself into a highly charged conversation, she takes her chances.

It is my opinion that she was asking, no, begging for it.

Good job!

[BOSSHOG]

18. I think you were totally out of line

and way too meak. You should have bitched slapped the whore and held a gun on her and ordered the librarian to call the police to take the fine upstanding "conservative" off to the gulag for fucking with your constitutional liberties. That is the only "communications" these neanderthal motherfuckers understand.

However, I think ya done good! Thanks to "conservatives" I am no longer civil in such circumstances. Now take care of that cold.

[Minnesota Libra]

22. OK, I feel better now. Thanks!! ......

....I was shaking the whole way home, I figured "Home Land Security" would make sure I never saw home again.

But thanks!!:hug:

[BOSSHOG]

34. You stop shaking

"Conservatives" have changed the tone in this country. You continue to look em in the eye, poke em in the chest, kick em in the ass. You ensure they are shaking after you get done with their sorry worthless, constitution hating asses. Truth to a "conservative" is like water to the wicked witch. OOOOOH I'm melting!

[electropop]

84. Or look 'em in the chest, poke 'em in the eye...

;-)

Truth is our most powerful weapon, and we are fighting an unarmed enemy.

[mcscajun]

143. Maybe the adrenaline rush you got from your "outburst" cleared

your cold. :)

Ya' never know...

[motocicleta]

32. once again, Bosshog

took the words right out of my mouth.

Actually, I was thinking of something really harsh, but BH's solution is much more civil.

[BOSSHOG]

36. "Civility" We don't need no stinking civility!

"They" (who know me) avoid any chit chat about politics.

[wicket]

153. Let me just say that....

Bosshog you rock!!! :D

:yourock:

[BOSSHOG]

156. I get by for an old guy

and thank you very much. I used to rock pretty good, now its more like a teeter. Oh, and by the way, it really doesn't matter whether I have anything to hide or not. So take that whomever is spying on us.

[sui generis]

19. Oh she's just lucky it was only you there

she needs to thank her lucky stars and garters.

The simplest answer is I don't have anything to worry about - I just want to check out a public domain document that anybody with a second grade education can download from the internet but apparently public libaries think are the equivalent of the blueprint for Fort Knox and stupid people at the library think are there to catch commie pinko fags.

I would have finished with a verbal demonstration that colorful descriptions of certain anatomically impossible acts with readily available body parts can be used as both a noun and a verb in the imperative form, which she could also research in the reference section if she didn't have anything to worry about.

rarrrr.

[LostinVA]

102. I would suggest you rephrase your opinion on librarians

As a profession, we are the most pinko, Leftist people you will EVER find. Because of us, Michael Moore's book got published. Because of us, the Patriot Act's force re: libraries has been completely watered down. Becaus eof us, literature on gay families, feminism, etc. are available to everyone. etc, etc. etc.

There was probably a very good reason what you wanted was in the reference section: because it's a high-use reference source. The same reason you can't check out dictionaries, study abroad serials, Who's Who, etc.

Yell about the nut case Freeper who snotted you... but not the librarian. Because odds are the librarian at the Circ desk is more liberal than most people on this board. Because that's what we are: pinko commies. Sweater vests and all.

[Minnesota Libra]

109. I was questioning why the copy was in reference which has been.....

.....explained here and I understand the situation much better now. I hope it did NOT come across that I was even attempting to attack or put down the librarian. I LOVE LIBRARIANS - they are very knowledgeable people and very helpful too!!:grouphug:

[sui generis]

144. say what?

did you mean to reply to me? I wasn't knocking librarians. You must have had the wrong reply or read mine wrong.

[AnneD]

151. We're on the same page....

Librarians have faced down FBI and HS defending people's rights. Who would have thought those sweet little ladies (no offense intended) would be tough as nails when weaker folk wet their pants and comply. The fact that you couldn't check it out may have been a blessing in disguise.
I :loveya:librarians.

[Ufomammut]

20. Outstanding response, and warranted

We've all had those encounters with media's jive-swilling, non-critical sheoples, and even if you throttle their shit with facts, all they're going to do is roll their eyes ...because, afterall, you must be crazy for believing something that isn't put forth in our mainline press.

Good for you! That should give you a bit of a pepping up from those pesky cold symptoms.

[Coexist]

21. you did good.

It was none of her business, and last time I was there, you could check books OUT of the library.

[Neil Lisst]

23. You did good! Way to stand up and represent!

Folks, these little simple steps of speaking up and verbalizing what many are thinking is the way to go. It's freeing as well as effective.

Just say it!

It's amazing how many people out there feel like we're slipping into a police state, and want to hear someone else say so.

[PA Democrat]

25. No, not over the top. Maybe she'll think twice before butting into other

people's business with her right-wing talking points. You didn't ask for her input, so she should have no objection to your response.

Boy these people are stupid aren't they? There have been quite a few people, some US citizens who have been spied on, questioned and even detained unlawfully despite having done nothing wrong.

[Lochloosa]

26. Since when in this country did

speaking the truth make you wonder if your "over the top"?

Nice rant. I bet she still doesn't get it.

[Minnesota Libra]

27. THANKS to each and EVERYONE OF YOU yes I........

.....do feel much better now. :grouphug:

[LiberalinNC]

28. LMAO!!!! You were great!!!

No way were you over the top, you were right on mark!!! Great job! I probably would have been a lot worse!

[atommom]

29. I think your answer was not over the top.

As far as the new Patriot Act being in the reference section, I don't think that has anything to do with the library trying to keep track of/inconvenience dissidents. Most libraries keep recent reference books in the reference section, especially if they are in high demand. This is to increase the chances of the book being there for the next person who wants to see it. It's inconvenient, but it's much less inconvenient than finding out that the book is checked out, and that you must wait several months for your turn to check it out. (That's not an uncommon scenario with new, popular books.)

[Minnesota Libra]

33. I never thought about that - but now that you mention it you.....

.....are probably right. It's in reference for the most circulation. OK, I can handle that. :hug:

[Kurovski]

30. You still have a long way to go before you're as "over the top"

as BushCo.

Even the "F" word is used by Cheney on the Senate floor...but that is the only omission I would have made, perhaps replacing it with "hell".

K&R.

[kaygore]

31. She was over the top...NOT you!!!!

I hope when they raid her house they do a body cavity search!

[suffragette]

35. You said exactly what needed to be said

and you gave the people who were nodding in agreement with your points something they can respond with in the future.
Well done.
:applause:

[pitohui]

37. haha good for you

i think it but i don't say it, someone has to tell the asshats where to get off

[MountainLaurel]

38. About the reference thing

The current issue is probably in reference because:

A: the likelihood that someone will steal or deface it (you'd be surprised how many books get "lost" up above the ceiling tiles in the restroom).

B: it's a frequently used item

C: most people aren't going to read the whole thing; they just want to use it to look something up. So, there's less of a need to be able to check it out.

D: it's expensive, and therefore they want to reduce the chance that someone's kid will use it as a coloring book (yes, the federal government can charge you for buying their publications).

E: The older versions are in the circulating collection.

Oh, and if I had been the desk worker at that library, I would have applauded. Which is probably why I shouldn't be working with the public anytime soon.

[Minnesota Libra]

41. Yes, someone else suggested that it might be in reference for........

.....the most circulation opportunities, which I hadn't thought of. In the future I will watch questioning something like that just in case there is a perfectly good explanation like this.

:hug: thanks :grouphug:

[trixie]

64. Librarian here

:hi:

The current issue is probably in reference because

That post with the header above is correct.

It is a new item. It is expensive. Usually at our library we will have 1 in reference, 1 in circulating and 1 in RR which means ready reference but we refer to call it "really reference".

In this political climate, the chances of it going missing or being defaced is very great. Keeping it in reference allows us to keep a closer watch on the material. It also insures that it won't be checked out and never returned. If you discussed this at the circulation desk then you were talking to a non-librarian. She/he should refered you to the librarian. There could have been a circulating copy in the regular stacks.

I don't want people to misunderstand. Being in reference is good. It means that the library values the materials as historical documents and wants to preserve it whether it is good or bad in your political views.

[Minnesota Libra]

74. I now understand the reference department thing - I just wish..........

.....the lady that checked me out would have explained that in that much detail. She explained it was in the reference department but didn't go on to explain it was considered "highly politically charged" and so they were simply protecting the copy/s they had for everyone's use. I would have understood that instantly!!! Now that I do understand it, I will be more than willing to go to the library and read their copy without further complaint.

Thanks for this explanation!!:hug:

[MountainLaurel]

99. Very few people want that sort of detail

Most patrons barely understand the difference between reference and circulation. :evilgrin: Also, if you were checking things out, those workers are paraprofessionals (as opposed to librarians, who usually have a master's degree) or even a volunteer and may have no idea why something might be put in reference as opposed to circulating. So, I'm guessing that's why he or she didn't go into much detail about the whys.

[LostinVA]

103. Have to stick up for our paraprofessionals: they ARE professionals

just without the MLIS. Their duties, everytghing... they run the library, not the professionals... not with budget cuts. The majority of the professionals stray two years or so and leave... the staff stay there forever. Our Circ and Reference staff know their info...

[MountainLaurel]

111. No disrespect intended

Trust me, we would crumble without our paras. I just meant that they are often not the folks who get to decide whether a new item will be reference or circulation.

[LostinVA]

118. Ah! Understood -- sorry!

[MountainLaurel]

115. Holy Dupe, Batboy!

:bounce:

[madmunchie]

92. Reference books are never allowed out of the library

I would have wondered what makes a book a reference book. When I had that answer, then I would have said something. You can also copy reference materials. I know that it is probably a large book and inconvenient, but that is standard on reference books.

Go back to the Library, do not stay away, if you do, they will have won.

[ohtransplant]

39. Over the top?

I know it's a library but if I had been there and heard you, I may have applauded or broken into song, :applause::applause::applause::applause::woohoo:

(wistfully)"My country 'tis of thee, great land of liberty..."

You did great. Many of us hope to react as eloquently when it's our turn - and our turn will come.

[timber84]

40. Bravo

Did the woman have anything else to say to you?

[Minnesota Libra]

45. No - she was darn near crying by the time I got done with her, I.......

....sort of felt bad for her and that's why I wish I had held my tongue. But the whole thing popped out there without me even thinking about it. :shrug:

[timber84]

65. Next time she will think twice before she butts in a

conversation. She learned a good lesson today. Don't feel bad someone has to be the teacher sometimes.

[progressoid]

131. She's probably never heard anything contrary to what Sean and Rush

tell her.

It may be more than just the public tongue lashing, but the realization that she's part of the fringe and not mainstream amurica.

Edited to add: You did the right thing.

[IsItJustMe]

42. Sounds like you pretty damn articulate. I wish I had that gift. I always

think of an articulate answer three days later.

[Minnesota Libra]

46. I'm usually the same way but with this head cold and a little bit.....

....of sinuses mixed in for good measure, I just let loose. In a way I felt bad for her because by the time I got done with her she was darn near crying. :shrug:

[IsItJustMe]

79. No way. We've had to edure over 5 years of insanity.

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. What the hell did her uninvited comment have to do with the private

conversation that you were having with the Librarian anyway? Sounds like she was just waiting for the opportunity to parrot that stupid line of crap. Probably was the first time she had the chance, probably thought you would cower and not say anything and she would feel superior and all :patriot:. Hopefully you stopped her from harassing anyone in the future with her ignorance. Good Job!

[CrazyOrangeCat]

44. You ROCK !!!

[Raine]

47. As far as 'reference' goes

libraries have reference books of all kinds that cannot be checked out. The reference section is for materials that are used by many, expensive and have information that can be used right there and don't need to be taken home.

What you told that woman though was ... :thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Over the top? Hell no. You win today's prize for "best comeback"

and you get a 10.0 for thinking on your feet while sick. :thumbsup: :yourock:

[Minnesota Libra]

53. That is just it I DIDN'T THINK it all just popped out there. Oops nt

[Warren DeMontague]

98. Well, however it happened, well done. I'm usually the one who thinks of

the good comeback about 15 minutes too late.

[Lex]

49. I guess those people don't mind "peeping Toms" in their neighborhood?

I mean, seems to me if they aren't doing anything wrong, and they don't care if someone eavesdrops or invades their privacy, then they shouldn't mind "peeping Toms" looking through their windows either.

That's the question I always pose to them when I hear that tired old "if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind . . . "

[DUHandle]

50. I too am a big fan of the library

as well as being outspoken.

[centristo]

51. well put

the attitude that of "if you've done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to hide" is not just ignorant of human history, but incredibly dangerous. you did the right thing.

[glitch]

52. You were perfect. I wish I could see her face, all pinch and disapproving

and sanctimonious.

[BlueEyedSon]

54. Right On, Minnie!

[Lisa]

55. I showed this to a librarian friend of mine, and she says "Right on!"

You were asking the staffer a perfectly reasonable question, when that nosey parker butted in.

As other posters have already suggested, the document could have been put in the "reference" section for availability reasons ... I bet the feds were too stingy to hand out multiple copies, since Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales (for starters) probably think it's "communist" to give away free books! Especially in library systems which allow patrons to put holds on material, there can be waiting lists which are a couple of hundred names long, making it virtually impossible to get the book within a reasonable period. And unfortunately, popular items can also go missing if they're out in the general stacks. (I just received the bad news that a $200 metalworking textbook which I donated to the library last year has been stolen. My friend apologized, saying that if they'd put it in the Reference room, it would have been a bit less vulnerable, since most thieves aren't adept enough to razor the magnetic strips out in full view ... but I wouldn't have thought that it would be theft-worthy either. The Fahrenheit 9/11 DVD I also gave them has disappeared too, though that couldn't be helped ... it wouldn't be practical to keep DVDs in Reference where nobody can see them.)

I would not be surprised if the rest of the librarians at your branch hear about this, and the vast majority totally support you.

Speaking of stuff popping out, my friend greeted me at the information desk last week with "did you hear what that little dictator wants to do now?" Even the children's section librarian, who isn't much into politics, is irritated with the administration thanks to their lack of support for science education. My friend says that, when she's on the job, she has had to bite her tongue when telling various right-wingers why the library carries books on homosexuality, Cuba, and other "controversial" topics (thinking: "why don't you just go over and enjoy our selection of Left Behind books, which cost an exorbitant amount and make Harlequin novels look like profound humanistic literature?") But since you aren't a library staffer, say whatever you like -- and more power to you!

[Minnesota Libra]

60. That's one of the things I love about the library - everyone.......

.....regardless of religious, political, or other views can find something of interest.

BTW, I read the entire "Left Behind" series just to know what the neocons were thinking and believe you me they parrot the "Patriot Act" and what is currently going on in Guantanamo much more than most people think. Very scary!!!!!!!

[Lisa]

66. it still boggles my mind, Minnesota Libra ...

... that SOMEBODY would actually sit down and think up a name for a piece of legislation, so it came out spelling "USA PATRIOT ACT". The time they must have had to spare!

My librarian friend joked that she was tempted to misfile it -- on purpose -- in the consumer tips section, next to the books on "false advertising". (But in the end, she decided to obey the requirements of the Dewey Decimal System.)

p.s. Way to go. You made my day!

p.p.s. I agree -- it's wonderful that there is stuff to please (and displease!) everybody, in a well-stocked public library! (I also gave them a CD copy of medieval English passion play music, along with the political stuff ... I suppose the "Left Behind" fans can enjoy the "Doomsday" tracks, while they read about the Rapture.)

[MountainLaurel]

101. Just one point

I doubt very seriously this document was "handed out" to begin with. Very few bound, book-like items from the federal government are free. Hell, when I worked as a contractor in the Justice Department, there was a charge for any document over about 20 pages. As a librarian, I've ordered books from them (including the 9/11 Commission report), and they sure weren't free.

Just a PSA from your friendly, neighborhood librarian.

I think I would adore working with your friend. She sounds like my kind of librarian. (In our office, at least four staffers out of 20 went to the September anti-war protest here in DC.)

[Lisa]

114. it's almost as if they don't want people reading their publications....

In the case of the Patriot Act, that's very convenient for them!

Thanks for the info, MountainLaurel. I'm in Canada, and until fairly recently, our feds gave out quite a few freebies to major libraries and also some college and universities. I even lucked out and got some educational videos from the provincial environment department ... on the condition that I passed them along to the library when I was done with them. (Data from the weather service used to be free, too ...) Of course, that changed with the cost-cutting of the 1990s (and with the Conservatives in power, I don't think it'll shift back anytime soon). Those were the days!

[ClayZ]

57. Bravo and Whoo Hooo! It was great in the saying...

and will be great in the repeating!


Thanks for speaking out!

[underpants]

58. No

Over the top would have combined F*** with B**** and/or C***

[Minnesota Libra]

62. Ouch!!!!! Oh you are bad!!!! and good too!! nt

[liveoaktx]

59. Excellent comeback!

[helderheid]

61. You are my hero!

:applause:

[Individualist]

63. Bravo!

More people need to speak truth to power the way you did. :applause:

[moc]

67. But here's what I want to know.

What did the woman do? Did she look stupefied? Shocked? Did she walk away in tears?

How I wish I were a fly on the wall. :popcorn:

I'm just in awe that you actually had such a snappy comeback. Invariably, when I'm in those situations, I get tongue-tied and don't say anything (that makes sense at least). It's always later when I figure out what I SHOULD have said.

:yourock:

[Minnesota Libra]

68. The woman didn't say a word, in fact.........

.....I think she was too :wow: to say anything. She just looked like if I'd have said just two or three more words to her she might have burst out in tears. That's why I felt sorry for her later.

On the other hand, I can hold my tongue at times but I'm also known as someone who can and regularly does open mouth and insert both feet.

I'm not at all sorry for what I said, but instead I'm simply sorry I got so sarcastic about it. I could have made the same point much nicer.:hide:

[BlackHeart]

69. I don't get the ladies comment

What does her comment about "nothing to worry about" have to do wth you wanting to take it home?

BTW- did you ever get an answer about why you weren't allowed to take it home? I would assume it's because it was listed as a reference book or else they didn't have enough copies.

[Minnesota Libra]

87. Actually it was explained right here on this thread that.........

.....the new patriot act is such a "politically charged" item and probably expensive to buy too that they have to protect what few copies they have. So to make it available to the most people they keep it in reference. I may not like that idea but I can certainly understand it.

[BlackHeart]

94. Still confused.

Yep, I read all the replies and see the comments saying that the reason that you couldn't take the book home is because it was a reference book. Makes sense.

What still has me confused is the ladies comment to you. It only makes sense for her to say that if you were refusing to want to sign for the book. But you wanted to sign for it so that you could take it home.

[Minnesota Libra]

95. Don't look to me for an explanation on that one, I'm.......

.....just as confused as you are by her butting in with any comment much less the one she made.:shrug: I can only assume she thought I was totally disagreeing with the patriot act as a whole.:eyes: I really have no idea though.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

158. It doesn't have to make sense, the lady just watches a lot of FOX news and

listens to a lot of Rush, and hears that talking point a lot, so as a good German, felt the need to repeat it to this stranger.

[mmonk]

70. !

Wish I had been there. :rofl:
That's what I call square between the eyes.

[sinkingfeeling]

71. I would've loved to have been there and seen her face!

[peacefreak]

72. I would have been interested in hearing why

she wanted it to remain in The Reference Dept. I think it's important to remind folks that librarians & booksellers (me) have stood up strongly & resolutely against the Patriot Act. When you come to the counter I don't care whether you have a copy of Charlie & the Chocolate Factory or Lolita or Turner Diaries or Barely Legal. It is not up to me to judge your taste or needs. I proudly put my name on the line for your freedom. I stand by the First Amendment on a daily basis.

[Minnesota Libra]

80. According to a few suggestion here the new patriot act is........

....kept in the reference department because essentially it's a "politically charged" item and it's expensive so they want to protect it for the viewing of everyone. I may not like it but I understand and can see their reasoning on it.

[LostinVA]

104. Oi... those Turner Diaries freaks

I remember them from when I worked at a bookstore...

:scared:

[peacefreak]

123. Yeah.

flat foreheads & yellow eyes.:evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

127. And asking if they HAVE to give you contact info

And what do you do with the info...

[Hekate]

76. Applause from this corner!

Normally I'm like you -- I don't really want to cause a scene in public. But This Has Gone Far Enough.

If I'd been a witness to your eloquent rant you would have gotten an "Hallelujah! A-men!" and thumbs up from me.

Hekate

[im10ashus]

77. Over the top?

Hell no, honey. This administration is over the top and its our DUTY to question them. I sure hope your cold gets better. You deserve a toast!

:toast:

:hug:

[C_U_L8R]

78. Right on ! Stick it to the man (or lady in this case) !!

the only way to defeat these evil bastards
is to shame em back into their dark caves.
Publicly.. without hesitation or politeness.
There is no such thing as being too soft
on this sort of corruption.

[Arkansas Granny]

81. Not over the top. Seems like it was right on the mark to me.

I'm envious. I can't think that fast on my feet.

[AndyTiedye]

85. Sounds Real Good to Me

:yourock:

[mimitabby]

86. i have librarian friends

they cannot stand the new rules! they don't make them, they just have to do their jobs.

[baby_mouse]

88. You were not over the top.

Something like 85% of the necessary level to get through to these pigs.

[SeattleGirl]

89. I say BRAVO, Libra!

And kudos to you for speaking out. I don't think you were over the top at all. What's over the top is the stuff you talked about in your comeback to that woman. Extreme times sometimes call for an extraordinary response, and you sure nailed it! Bravo, I say! Bravo!!!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Canuckistanian]

90. Civil disobedience at it's finest

If no one stands up to these people, it'll be too late.

Question Authority!

K&R

[peacebird]

91. Excellent response!

:yourock:

[Ilsa]

93. Yeeeee- haaawww! TAKIN' MY COUNTRY BACK!

(You did great.)

TAKIN' MY COUNTRY BACK

country music's got mamas and daddys
we got bar rooms and old heartbreak songs
but i 'm here today to stand up and say
how i feel about my home sweet home
what's left, what's right and what's wrong... and

i’m takin’ my country back
son, you ain't been doin’ her right
oh i been watchin’ you and i don’t like
how you've been treatin’ my stars and stripes
you took our jobs and sent ‘em overseas
now we owe billions to the red chinese
you blew the budget and you botched iraq
so i’m takin’ my country back

we had a bundle in the treasury drawer
more than there had ever been before
but every day we're drownin' deeper in debt
maybe four years should be all you get
then you gave tax breaks to the millionaires
and tried to make the workin’ man pay
but you can’t tax a man when his jobs not there
now look at where we are today…hey

i’m takin’ my country back
son, you ain't been doin’ her right
oh i been watchin’ you and i don’t like
how you've been treatin’ my stars and stripes
you got too many fancy friends for me
the saudis treat you like you're royalty
you blew the budget and you botched iraq
now i’m takin’ my country back

now i can understand why you were hot
'cause bin laden never did get caught
so you said we had saddam to blame
tried to tell us it was all the same
but now the years roll by and our kids keep dyin'
you don't even have a plan to bring 'em home
and those w.m.d. you promised on t.v.
hey admit it, you figured it wrong... so i'm takin' my country back

now you don’t know my name, but you know who i am
i'm your everyday work hard, play hard
raise kids and pray hard common man....
and lord knows i love this land...that's why

i’m takin’ my country back
son, you ain't been doin’ her right
oh i been watchin’ you and i don’t like
how you've been treatin’ my stars and stripes
you say "unite" but you divide us more
cussin' each other on the senate floor
ain't we supposed to be above all that ?
hey i’m takin’ my country back
i got my family and my church and flag...
now i'm takin' my country back

brought to you by
HONKY TONKERS FOR TRUTH
http://www.takinmycountryback.com/main.htm

[Minnesota Libra]

96. This is GOOD!! nt

[opihimoimoi]

97. YOU were AWESOME

You Shocked and Awed her...LOL

Hope she goes back to her mentor who gave the talking point and said::: Its not working anymore....

[Bassic]

105. I think that come back was called for

I think the only way we have to even begin to have a chance at recovering lost liberties is to make it a habbit to speak out. In the beginning, a lot of people will think you're from the looney left, but eventually, as fredoms are eroded, people will hear and understand.

[immoderate]

106. I don't fault her for butting in.

In other circumstances, it's called striking up a conversation. You didn't chide her for not minding her business. You reamed her for being mindless, and offering a stupid, right wing talking point, and being ignorant of American traditions.

You did the right thing, and very well I might add, but not because she said something, because she said something extremely stupid! Well done, Libra.:patriot:

--IMM

[Minnesota Libra]

113. OK, you get it then!! I didn't mind her butting in at all, I'm usually...

.....very friendly and will strike up a conversation with most anyone. It was what she said that just set me off. The fact that my head feels like it's going to explode with this cold along with some sinus problems mixed in for good measure and it didn't take much to have me in an uproar. That comment of, "If you don't have anything to hide there is nothing to worry about" thing that did it.

I don't think the woman was a Minnesotan by birth or real choice because Minnesotans that truly like being Minnesotans just aren't like that, they are very mannerly. It's called "Minnesota Nice".

[immoderate]

117. Yeah, I always talk to people standing in line.

I just hope that I don't say something stupid. Her remark sounded like a non sequiter to me. I keep coming back to mindless. Was her tone judgmental?

Hope you feel better.:hi:

--IMM

[KAZ]

107. I think I'm in love. :)

If I'm ever confronted in such a fashion, I hope that that I have the internal fortitude to lay out a so perfectly worded screed as your's.

[Geek_Girl]

108. Great Come Back

It sounds like something that should be in a movie.

[tom_paine]

110. No, not over the top. People need to speak out.

Good for you. As we all have learned, stand and be true or wear the chains of slavery.

You stood and were true.

[Toucano]

112. Not over the top.

You did a fantastic thing.

Bush bots have to be CHALLENGED! They only hear the stupid things repeated over and over.

Keep up the good work and don't feel down. You should feel proud.

[Ian David]

119. If Al Qaeda has over-due books, we want to know about it

[Glenda]

125. lol!

:rofl:

[Sydnie]

121. You did swell!

You sound like me. I can't stop myself either.

[Minnesota Libra]

124. THANK YOU to everyone for your support.........

......I wouldn't have spoken out that forcefully had I not been feeling like crap. At the same time, I bet the woman thinks twice before she does her next Bush party line on anyone. Oh well, tomorrow I'm staying home to rest up and hopefully start recovering from this cold.

:grouphug: :hi: :loveya: :grouphug: :hi: :loveya: :grouphug: :hi: :loveya:

[BigBearJohn]

126. You were MUCH nicer than I ever would have been.

[adigal]

128. You ROCKED!!!! I have been calling this administration

on every single thing they have done in the last few weeks, and I think we are getting to be the Conventional Wisdom, which makes the hangers-on and scaredy-cats in the middle jump on.

Keep plugging away - I do, every day!!

[Fovea]

129. I count that a measured response.

Firm, fair, and no doubt cathartic.

[kineneb]

130. not over the top at all

I am afraid I would have been rather short with her and would have said something like:
"Shut up, you fucking Nazi."
Your reply was excellent and eloquent. Thanks.

[lildreamer316]

132. HELL yes!!

YOU GO!!
Nice balls you have there!!
Proud to know you!!

[proud patriot]

133. You are a patriot and the lady needed that wake up call

I hope she learned from her encounter with a patriot today .

[Media_Lies_Daily]

134. It's time every American should reply like you did. Well done.

[specimenfred1984]

135. Fantastic!

Speaking up is the absolute best thing we can do IMO.

[Hissyspit]

136. She is using false logic, too. The cliche is a fallacy & false dichotomy.

"If you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about" is a fallacy of affirming the consequent, probably with a bit of straw man thrown in there, too.

And people who use the statement usually know this, too. They just say it anyway. So she was being willfully ignorant AS WELL AS rude.

[Lisa]

154. plus she changed the topic of the conversation ...

As you point out, not only was that statement flawed in terms of logic, but it didn't really relate to the original question (why that particular document was in the Reference section and not in general circulation). But of course, changing the topic so one doesn't actually address the question is used quite a bit by those who are unwilling/unable to talk about the main point (as Bush himself shows by example!).

[NMMNG]

137. Over the top?

Not at all. You kick a$$! :applause:

I highly doubt that woman will be butting into random conversations with ridiculous talking points any time soon. :rofl:

[Senator]

138. GrrrrrrEAT !! n/t

[DarkTirade]

139. Some people live willingly in their little dreamworld...

others might have a chance of being awoke by a verbal/logical/truthful slap in the face like that one.

[Burried News]

140. Toyota - she asked for it - she got it. Angry ? They ain't seen

nuthin yet.

[foreverdem]

141. YOU ROCK!

I can imagine how pissed off you must have been and you were able come back at the bitch with an articulate answer, and a great one at that.

[mcscajun]

142. Over the top? Hell, No! You were dead on target.

Every person who mouths that pabulum "If you're not doing anything wrong..." should get that very same speech. Every. Single. One.

:applause: to you for being so quick-witted and sharp-tongued. :)

[raccoon]

146. Great comeback.

I can't stand buttinskys like that woman.

Reckon she'll think twice before butting in uninvited again.

[chefgirl]

147. Oh, I'm right there with you!

“If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.”

Horseshit!! Most of us AREN'T doing anything wrong and still we have plenty to worry about with the little idiot in the peoples' house.

Great comeback, btw. :applause: :yourock:

-chef-

[jdadd]

148. Bravo!

:patriot:

[ProfessorGAC]

149. I Have A Simpler Comeback

In case this ever happens again:

I'm insulted by the spying BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE!

That shuts up the idiots, since there is no logical retort.
The Professor

[Minnesota Libra]

150. Good reply - thanks for that one. nt

[emdee]

152. Not at all "over the top"

Congrats to you for speaking out. It is the only way to "wake up" the country. So many people are afraid of speaking out, which is exactly what the Right Wing and PNAC-lovers strived to accomplish. We all have to start speaking out before we can even begin to get back to normal.

Especially since this is an important election year - we all have to speak out, loud and clear. Thank you for doing so. I'd absolutely love to here that Right-Winger tell the story! LOL

I hope that I will be able to remember enough of that to repeat if I'm put in the same situation.

Way to go!
emdee

[walldude]

155. Over the top? Ha!

Problem is we have been too nice to these people. In spite of what they say we are not the party of smear and hate, as a matter of fact we won't debate unless we have the facts behind us. Unlike the person that you encountered in the library who gets all their news from O'Leilly and Rush.