Path to War (HBO)

[H2O Man]

HBO is showing their 2002 historical drama, about LBJ's experience in getting our country deeply involved in Vietnam in 1965. It features Michael Gambon, Donald Sutherland, and Alec Baldwin.

Has anyone seen it before?

I think it is intense, and it is extremely disturbing in light of today's press conference.

[rusty_parts2001]

1. Its good..

if you can get over a Brit playing LBJ. Pretty accurate from all the history I remember and read.

[MADem]

2. He's a bit hit or miss on the LBJ "Big Texas" accent

But for those who didn't have a history of actually seeing the real guy on the tube, with his "Mah fella Amuricans..." speeches, that bit is probably less important.

It was well done, and would have been perfect had the dialogue coach been a bit more of a taskmaster.

[H2O Man]

3. LBJ's nightmares:

Arthur Schlesinger writes about LBJ's terrifying dreams, several of which the ex-president would recount to Doris Kearns. One, which was rooted in his grandfather's tales of cattle stampedes in the old days, found LBJ alone in a chair, in the middle of a vast field. He tries to get up and run, but suffers a paralysis:

"I felt I was being chased on all sides by a giant stampede .... I was being forced over the edge by rioting blacks, demonstrating students, marching welfare mothers, squawking professors, and hysterical reporters. And then the final straw. The thing I feared from the first day of my Presidency was actually coming true. Robert Kennedy had openly announced his intention to reclaim the throne in the memory of his brother. And the American people, swayed by the magic of the name, were dancing in the streets." (page 931 of Schlesinger's "Robert Kennedy.")

[im10ashus]

4. WOW!!!

That's an anxiety-riddled dream if ever I heard of one.

[leftchick]

5. I have seen it a couple of times

It is very intense. It is very disturbing to compare LBJ, a man of conscience, with he the raving lunatic, sociopath bush.

[H2O Man]

6. Oh I agree.

To borrow a phrase my father borrowed from LBJ, "Bush ain't a pimple on that good man's ass."

I'm not comparing them as men or as president's. The paranoid decline, however, offers some interesting comparisons.

[leftchick]

7. I was doing the comparing

I was not suggesting you were. :)

I couldn't help it. The contrast is simply amazing and utterly depressing.

[H2O Man]

8. Okay ....

then we agree that George W. Bush made even Richard Nixon, in the final days before he resigned in disgrace, look sane, stable, and honest? (grin)

Today's presentation was sad. I'd like Bush to either resign or be impeached. I do not want an out-of-touch, unstable fellow holding onto the reins of power. LBJ had some sane people around him. Even Nixon had a few rational people advising him. It seems that Bush has no good influences -- the "grey beards" suggested at the press conference.

[leftchick]

10. unstable?

I was thinking insane! :scared:


Give me your professional opnion about his condition and if you think he is medicated? He is certainly a sociopath who should be locked up!

[H2O Man]

11. Two opinions:

A close friend who is a practicing psychologist believes Bush is a sociopath. He lists things reported from his childhood and youth, on to adulthood. He makes an interesting case.

I think that he has a number of antisocial characteristics, as well as unresolved substance abuse issues. As an antisocial fellow, he displays some loyalty to his "group," which is Texas oil. They are, for all practical purposes, his gang of thieves, and his relationship with them is not significantly different than those of a bank robber with other bank robbers.

I see no evidence of his using prescription, OTC, or illegal substances in recent years. Of course, anything is possible.

His childhood included having competition with Dad, and a Mom who convinced him from the crib that he has never made a mistake. The time a reporter asked him to list some errors he made as president, he was stunned, because it simply never occured to him that he has made a mistake. Add to this the wishing he was more manly than Dad, who wore a uniform and flew missions in war, and we have a tragicly flawed fellow in the White House.

When he quit drinking and drugs, he had an experience not unlike many others. However, Billy Graham instilled in him a messianic delusional thought system. Thus, he believes that he isn't ever wrong; is doing God's will; and is proving he has bigger balls than Dad.

Those who question him are marginalized immediately as being "wrong" because they oppose the Lord's will. This black-and-white thinking is common in a group of personality disorders that often includes anti-social folk.

Rigid things don't do well under pressure. They snap. I think the president seemed odd today, even for a strange guy. His inappropriate laughter, his need to "control," and his difficulty arranging his thoughts -- note how giddy he was when he could deliver a pre-packaged answer -- which seemed extreme even for a non-gifted speaker, struck me as unsettling.

There is something pathetic about an adult who can never admit they might be wrong, or who lacks the capacity to change. It reminds me of LBJ's being paranoid that people would view him as "weak." The tragic thing is that many people, including American soldiers and all Iraqis, are at increased risk for severe injuries and death because of his shortcomings. I am increasingly concerned about his choices for dealing with Iran.

[leftchick]

12. thank you

Regarding Iran I am concerned as well. There was a discussion of preemtive war on NPR this afternoon and the speaker seemed certain that an Iran strike would not happen because it was not logical in this situation. Like logic has anything to do with what bush does! :(

[demosincebirth]

9. He did more for civil rights than any president. He just happened to be

President at the time when stopping the "red hordes" at any cost, was the politics of the time.

[catmandu57]

13. I saw the last thirty minutes or so

and could feel the ptsd returning, a very accurate depiction, there are some things I shouldn't watch but can't help it.