I've almost converted a Repub cop to become a Dem. Can you help me finsh?

[eeyore]

So I know this regeistered Republican cop who I swear is a closeted Democrat. He liked Greenwald's Wal-Mart movie and F-9/11, supports gay marriage, is adamantly pro-choice, and usually supports local taxes for schools, parks, and libraries.

I asked him when he was going to come out of the closet and admit that he's a Democrat.

His response: When the Democrats acknowledge the real threat that terrorists pose to this country. The war on Iraq, while not popular, has other reasons for being than oil. When they acknowledge that, I'll consider it.

So, how the hell do I respond at this point?

Anyone have any great ideas?

It's time to close the deal!

thx-
eeyore

[bpilgrim]

1. tell him to read this book...

N.Y. Times Book Review of "American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century"

Phillips identifies three broad and related trends . . . that together threaten the future of the United States and the world. One is the role of oil in defining and, as Phillips sees it, distorting American foreign and domestic policy. The second is the ominous intrusion of radical Christianity into politics and government. And the third is the astonishing levels of debt — current and prospective — that both the government and the American people have been heedlessly accumulating.

Phillips fully supports an explanation of the Iraq war that the Bush administration dismisses as conspiracy theory — that its principal purpose was to secure vast oil reserves that would enable the United States to control production and to lower prices. ("Think of Iraq as a military base with a very large oil reserve underneath," an oil analyst said a couple of years ago. "You can't ask for better than that.") Terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, tyranny, democracy and other public rationales were, Phillips says, simply ruses to disguise the real motivation for the invasion.

more...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/books/review/19brink.html?_r=2&incamp=article_popular&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

peace

[eeyore]

9. Cool, thanks bpilgrim....

I'll check it out. Sounds like a great book.

[bpilgrim]

11. the best part is that it is written by a republican ;-)

:hi: eeyore

peace

[Bozita]

30. ... who was on with Lou Dobbs on Mon -- replay on CNN later tonight

Guaranteed good stuff!

from CNN:

American Theocracy


Kevin Philips, author of "American Theocracy" and former political strategist for the Republican Party, tells us why he says the party is consumed by greed, catastrophic fiscal irresponsibility and extremism.

Plus, a roundtable of political experts joins us.

[SpiralHawk]

2. Iraq invasion has other reasons beyond oil?

In his view, what are they?

In my view, the Iraq invasion and occupation is immediately suspect because of PNAC and the web of deliberate lies and obfuscations that led us into it, and also because of the incompetent way it has been conducted.

I think power, oil, and misplaced fear are the driving engines of the invasion and occupation -- and that the Crusade/Jihad pervo occult thoughtform is a big part of what LIES BENEATH. But this mutant darkside thoughtform need not be empowered, need not be played out. To me that is clear.

[upi402]

3. Pay to take him to see 'V is for Vendetta'

Maybe tell him it's a mafia movie... buy dinner...:shrug:

[Rincewind]

4. tell him

Just remind him that Bill Clinton caught the terrorists that bombed the WTC the first time, and the ones that attacked the Cole, and a bunch more. It was the repubs who ignored the threat the terrorists posed, not the Democrats. And the two main reasons for invading Iraq were to enrich his friends, and do something that his dad couldn't do, get rid of Rummy's good buddy Saddam. Oh, and to stop people from saying W has a really small dick.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

5. Too tired to help . . . bedtime for this boy.

BUT. With a good Democratic name like Eeyore, I know you can do it! :patriot:

[Extend a Hand]

6. Maybe someone has a link to the military service records

of democrats and republicans in congress. Since our military is presumably fighting terrorism...Maybe he would be interested to know which politicians actually serve in the military.
I can't find the link but I've seen it here a number of times.

[eeyore]

13. Great idea..

I'll see what I can track down. I think that could be helpful.

eeyore

[LynnTheDem]

38. Who served;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5058411

Who served? Who didn't?
Prominent Democrats

Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. More facts about Gore's Service
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat
Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.
Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam
Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star
George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII.
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force
Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student deferments; in the autumn of 1969, Clinton entered the draft but received a high number (311) and was never called to serve.
Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy. "Except for his fellow service-academy graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent more years in uniform than Carter." (New Yorker Magazine)
Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953
Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea; extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.
Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V."
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.

Prominent Republicans

Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve.
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
VP Cheney - several deferments, did not serve, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; received seven deferments to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve, too busy being a Republican.
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments
Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him.
Former Senator Bob Dole - served
Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations
Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986
Colin Powell. Hmmm. Served.
Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.
Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve
Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve
Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve
Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did not serve.
Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve, had a "bad knee"
Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve
Jack Kemp, did not serve (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years)
Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity
Eliot Abrams, did not serve (however, played a key role in subverting democracy in South America)
Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve
Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve
Richard Perle, did not serve
Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani, did not serve
Michael Bloomberg, did not serve
George Pataki, did not serve
Spencer Abraham, did not serve
John Engler, did not serve
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service.
Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve
Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition
George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; was lone survivor out of airplane
Tom Ridge, Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam
Representative Sam R. Johnson, combat missions in both Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973
Senator Ted Stevens, R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic of China.
Sen. John Warner, R-VA - Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3
Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served in the Air Force 1978-1989
Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII
Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent Lott,served.

The Shrills:

George Will, did not serve
Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
Paul Gigot, did not serve.
Bill Bennett, Did not serve
Pat Buchanan, did not serv
Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst'
Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve,
John Wayne, did not serve
Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer."
Bill Kristol, did not serve
Sean Hannity, did not serve.
Kenneth Starr, did not serve
Antonin Scalia, did not serve
Clarence Thomas, did not serve
Ralph Reed, did not serve
Michael Medved, did not serve
Charlie Daniels, did not serve
Ted Nugent, did not serve
Radio Host Phil Hendrie, did not serve.

[Lasher]

41. I think this is what you're looking for

Who served in the military?

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

Edit: Oops, LynnTheDem beat me to it and did a better job too.

[noamnety]

7. port security? Iran Contra?

The dems HAVE been talking about taking real steps to prevent terrorism. For decades.

Port security is the most current example, but does he know about Kerry shutting down BCCI, Iran Contra, and money laundering to terrorists? Please stick that photo of Rumsfeld and Saddam in front of his face.

[NanceGreggs]

8. 'Terrorists', as we've been told by this Administration ...

... are those who would seek to destroy American freedoms.

Should we NOT fear those in government who, at every turn, have sought to do EXACTLY THAT?

Osama Bin Laden/Al Qeada/the 'terrorists' had absolutely NOTHING to do with warrantless wire-tapping of US citizens, laws by which US citizens can be seized and held without charge or trial, or access to legal counsel, rendition to foreign countries, secret prisons around the world - the list is endless.

Tell him that while the Republicans are busy looking for threats to our democracy around the world, the Democrats have had their eye on the 'terrorists' right here at home.

If they don't represent 'the real threat' to this country, I can't imagine what does.

[understandinglife]

10. Give him a copy of this:

http://missionnotaccomplished.us/WTPv17n.pdf

And, have him read what Republican Congressman Ron Paul has to say about "why we fight" in Iraq:
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2005/cr090805.htm

That should take care of it.


Be The Bu$h Opposition - 24/7

[eeyore]

19. Thanks!

I'll check those out. Thanks for the info.

eeyore

[MnFats]

12. Is he a union member? most cops from departments mid- to large...

...are union members and depend on their union locals to keep them from getting screwed on a number of issues.
appeal to him that way --- Bush and his croneys are trying their damndest to stiff the unions, including public employees unions that your cop friend likely belongs to .... look how Bush and his minions went to the mattress to see that no union would infest the Dept. of Homeland Security....appeal to his best interests --- so damn many people voted against their own best interest in the last election it's tragic.

[Clarkie1]

14. Ask him to read "Broken Engagement" - A Wes Clark Classic

It's a good article to use with "Reagan Democrat" types.

Broken Engagement
The strategy that won the Cold War could help bring democracy to the Middle East-- if only the Bush hawks understood it.
By Gen. Wesley Clark
May 2004

"During 2002 and early 2003, Bush administration officials put forth a shifting series of arguments for why we needed to invade Iraq. Nearly every one of these has been belied by subsequent events. We have yet to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq; assuming that they exist at all, they obviously never presented an imminent threat. Saddam's alleged connections to al Qaeda turned out to be tenuous at best and clearly had nothing to do with September 11. The terrorists now in Iraq have largely arrived because we are there, and Saddam's security forces aren't. And peace between Israel and the Palestinians, which prominent hawks argued could be achieved "only through Baghdad," seems further away than ever.

Advocates of the invasion are now down to their last argument: that transforming Iraq from brutal tyranny to stable democracy will spark a wave of democratic reform throughout the Middle East, thereby alleviating the conditions that give rise to terrorism. This argument is still standing because not enough time has elapsed to test it definitively--though events in the year since Baghdad's fall do not inspire confidence. For every report of a growing conversation in the Arab world about the importance of democracy, there's another report of moderate Arabs feeling their position undercut by the backlash against our invasion. For every example of progress (Libya giving up its WMD program), there's an instance of backsliding (the Iranian mullahs purging reformist parliamentarians).

<snip>

This rhetoric is undeniably inspiring. We should have pride in our history, confidence in our principles, and take security in the knowledge that we are at the epicenter of a 228-year revolution in the transformation of political systems. But recognizing the power of our values also means understanding their meaning. Freedom and dignity spring from within the human heart. They are not imposed. And inside the human heart is where the impetus for political change must be generated.

The neoconservative rhetoric glosses over this truth and much else. Even aside from the administration's obvious preference for confronting terrorism's alleged host states rather than the terrorists themselves, it was a huge leap to believe that establishing democracies by force of Western arms in old Soviet surrogate states like Syria and Iraq would really affect a terrorist movement drawing support from anti-Western sentiment in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and elsewhere.

Perhaps most fundamentally, the conditions of the Middle East today are vastly different from those behind the Iron Curtain in 1989. And the fact is that the Soviet Union did not fall the way the neoconservatives say it did.

<snip>

We can't know precisely how the desire for freedom among the peoples of the Middle East will grow and evolve into movements that result in stable democratic governments. Different countries may take different paths. Progress may come from a beneficent king, from enlightened mullahs, from a secular military, from a women's movement, from workers returning from years spent as immigrants in Western Europe, from privileged sons of oil barons raised on MTV, or from an increasingly educated urban intelligentsia, such as the nascent one in Iran. But if the events of the last year tell us anything, it is that democracy in the Middle East is unlikely to come at the point of our gun. And Ronald Reagan would have known better than to try."

more...

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.clark.html

[The Straight Story]

15. Tell him Clinton and Gore were dems and the believed it

And spoke about Iraq, and a lot about Iran as well.
Gore wanted Saddam out, said he had to go. Clinton railed about Iran.

Dems knew about it - they just kept it away from us better than bush.

[chefgirl]

16. Have him read this article

Then ask him what HE thinks the truth is:

New York Magazine covers the 9/11 truth movement.

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/news/features/16464/index.h...


The article does a good job, IMO, of acknowledging the fact that there are many people who shy away from the subject because of the perception that its all just conspiracy theory.
It then goes on to list many FACTS that cannot be disputed and leaves it up to the reader to decide where the truth is to be found.

Anyone who can absorb all the facts that are laid out in that article, and still believe that 'the terrorists' are anymore of a threat to the US than they were before 9/11, is nowhere near ready to leave the Republican party.

-chef-

[eeyore]

23. Sounds great, but I can't open the page...

For some reason your link doesn't work.

:shrug:

[chefgirl]

31. Sorry

Try this. Hope it works. WELL worth the read.

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/news/features/16464/index.html

-chef-

[eeyore]

33. Thanks chef!

I'll check it out. Looks really interesting, and well worth the read!

-eeyore

[hwmnbn]

17. ask this repug cop what exactly ......

is the real threat terrorists pose to this country.

Can they take away our civil liberties? can they bankrupt our economy? can they neglect and ignore our poor and elderly? can they export our jobs overseas? can they lie us into an unjust and immoral war? can they steal our tax dollars and put us and our children into debt for the next 50 years?

can they fucking emasculate americans to be so afraid that we'll give up our long cherished bill of rights and accept a lying lawbreaking administration?

WTF can the terrorists do to hurt us!?!?

demand an answer from this brave cop.

[eeyore]

21. Lol!

Great ideas. I'll have to think through how he'll respond, beacause he loves to argue.

thx
eeyore

[abluelady]

51. You said exactly what I was Going To Say!

But I would add Roosevelt's words about fearing fear.

[cynatnite]

18. Show him how badly bush has protected us

He can start by reading Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. He's been at the terrorist game for a long time and it'll show how much bush screwed up. It'll show that terrorism was never a priority for bush or his minions.

Also, remind him of what Kerry said about the ports during the 2004 elections. Kerry said this was a big weakness and bush's dumbass move proved it. Kerry had a much better handle on all this than bush ever could.

Show him how many terrorists have been arrested and convicted under the bush administration. Zero. If he wants to count the 9/11 guy currently on trial, go ahead. He's the only one who had a role that's been caught. Bin Laden is still free and roaming around. He's playing hero as is the others of his ilk.

There's plenty out there to show bush has failed and there is plenty to show the dems have a solid understanding of the terrorist threat.

Hope this helps.

[hopeisaplace]

20. Ask him to look into the future, what shape does he see his country

in with Repubs in power? versus what shape does he see his country in with Dems in power?
If he is so confident that republicans are doing a bang up job, and has his children's/grandchildren
tomorrows in mind, then hey..vote repug. If it worries him, then there's nothing further
to consider.

[eeyore]

28. He hates the way Republicans are running the country.

Great suggestions. Thanks!

[hopeisaplace]

29. :), thanks too...

[ChristianLibrul]

22. Closet Dem cop

Tell him to face one fact no one is willing to say out loud: There are no terists. If there were, they'd have hit us again since 9-11. But the reality is, no attacks have happened, no attacks have been attempted, and no terists have been convicted of being, well, terists. People are afraid of an enemy that doesn't exist.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Suggest that he reads Gen. Wes Clark's book, "Winning Modern Wars".....

And if he does, he'll finally realize that Dems are just smarter than the GOP when it comes to National Security.

Also Mention that Woodrow Wilson won WWI, FDR and Truman won WWII, and Kennedy averted a nuclear crisis during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Remind him that all three were Democrats, and no one's pussies.

[eeyore]

26. Great!

Thank you.

:-)

[FrenchieCat]

44. Actually, that's 4 Democratic Presidents.....

Wilson, FDR, Truman, and Kennedy....my Bad!

Johnson was no pushover either...and had enough "Gumption" to choose not to run for a 2nd term when he realized how he had screwed up Vietnam....

[Amonester]

25. Maybe this one could help:

BUSH REFUSED TO LISTEN TO LOCAL FBI WARNINGS-Could Have Stopped 9/11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x710549

Or this one:

'Iraq was awash in cash. We played football with bricks of $100 bills'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1734939,00.html


Or this one:

Rewriting The Science
(Page 1 of 3)
March 19, 2006
(AP)
Quote

"In my more than three decades in the government I've never witnessed such restrictions on the ability of scientists to communicate with the public."
James Hansen


(CBS) As a government scientist, James Hansen is taking a risk. He says there are things the White House doesn't want you to hear but he's going to say them anyway.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/17/60minutes/main1415985.shtml

Or that one (since the AWOL Coward-of-Crawford couldn't care less...):

Inside The NYPD's Anti-Terror Fight
March 19, 2006
(CBS)
Quote
(CBS) No American city has done more to defend itself against a terrorist attack than New York. Its police department, 37,000 strong and larger than the standing armies of 84 countries, has transformed itself from a traditional crime-fighting organization into one that places a strong emphasis on fighting terrorism. A thousand cops have been assigned to work exclusively on a new "terrorism beat." And, in an unprecedented move, New York has even stationed its own cops overseas.

These changes are all based on New York's belief that having suffered two devastating attacks while the federal government provided for its protection, the city had to take more responsibility for its own security — and that from now on, New York’s first line of defense is not the military, the CIA or the FBI: It’s the NYPD.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/17/60minutes/main1416824.shtml


Bonne chance. (These 'Conversions' R not easy to make...)

[eeyore]

37. Wow, that 60 minutes link is really interesting...

Thanks for the help!

-eeyore

[EarlG]

27. Tell him to watch

the BBC documentary "The Power Of Nightmares." I think you can download it, not sure where from though.

[eeyore]

32. Wow, EarlG, that sounds fantastic!

Why have I never heard of it? I just read a bit about it. I'll go out and find it for myself right away, and will get him a copy as well.

:toast:
eeyore

[LiberalAndProud]

34. What makes him think the Republicans are concerned about security?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=710549&mesg_id=710549


Port security funding - defeated by Republicans 3 years running.

Republicans are not strong on Homeland Security. They do not CARE! The FBI spends its time policing PEACE groups as potential terrorists. This makes us safe? I don't think so.

Rove's masterfull illusion vs. cold hard facts.

[LynnTheDem]

35. Ask him WTF did IRAQ have to do with any TERRORISTS???!!

How is it keeping us safe to IGNORE THE REAL TERRORISTS by attacking a nation that hadn't been doing anything to anyone and was NOT involved with terrorism, thus CREATING terrorists that DID NOT EXIST. And ad to that losing the world's desire to lift a finger to help/warn us in future.

HELLO!

[hopeisaplace]

36. Print this thread out and give it to him (maybe not!) J/K !!

:)

[countmyvote4real]

39. Port Security among other things.

As others have noted, the Dems have been trying to put forth legislation that would bolster our port security screening. The Republican majority in the House and the Senate have repeatedly overruled these amendments because they are too costly. In short, the Republicans have put a price on our safety, welfare and everything it is to imagine that government will do for us.

They’ve naturally made some exceptions for our billions when it comes to a few that will benefit from shutting down the Iraqi oil fields. Remind him that the oil fields were supposed to pay for it all. Instead, the production has been reduced dramatically below the Sadaam era. Be prepared for insurgencies and other unanticipated problems. Respond that if the real intent of the illegal, unprovoked invasion and occupation was any of the revolving justifications, we would have secured and optimized the oil production. Of course, it didn’t happen. The * objective was to diminish the Iraqi oil flow so that it could not compete with the OPEQ price.

I know, it sounds stupid and like political suicide to raise the price of oil and all subsequent goods and services. But Saudi friends and investors do come a calling. That’s not to suggest that Saudi oil interests were the only agenda on the plate. But it gives a broad-brush explanation for the origination of the 9/11 plot and the real agenda to invade Iraq. It provides a motivation to invade/occupy that moved way too quickly and without proper justification.

WTF are we still there after the presumed mission had been “accomplished.” That’s easy. We were told and sold the wrong mission. (Several times.) We are there to control their oil fields and flow. And it’s not about getting it out. That would make the cost at the local pump go down.

That also raises the price of all goods and services that are transported by this fuel. Higher prices without exponentially higher wages can only mean higher crime.

Hello Mr. Policeman. Your job is secure.

Hello Mr. Policeman. Do you need this extra aggravation on your job?

All things considered, it sounds like he just needs a good tipping. Wait until he’s asleep and turn him over like a cow. J

[Bozita]

40. Trash pick-up was once a municipal function. No more.

Think Waste Management.

Same thing could be done with cops.

[Bozita]

42. Trash today. Teachers, cops, and firefighters tomorrow

State and local governments are strapped.

Charter schools .... hmmm.

[LibDemAlways]

43. If he's still not convinced, tell him to

take a look at the eye-opening PNAC website in which the neocons lay out their strategy for American domination of the Middle East. The January 1998 letter to Clinton, signed by Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, and Bolton, among others, urging Clinton to invade Iraq way back then, ought to dispel him of the misguided notion that the Iraq War had any ties to 9/11 or that we're there to fight terrorists.

Somewhere on that website is the infamous phrase "a new Pearl Harbor" - the incident that would be required to launch the PNAC plans.

I think the best course is simply to provide him with as much information as you can, and let the details speak for themselves.

[democrank]

45. Ask him why, if Bush is so big on protecting this country

he`d dismantle the COPS program so he can give tax cuts to millionaires in his latest budget.

[XanaDUer]

46. Ask him why NYC is so blue

if they thought chimp could protect them after 9/11?

[NNN0LHI]

47. If you are not also a cop save your breath

I have known plenty of cops and the only one thing they all had in common was that they believed that there are only two kinds of people. Cops and shit heads. So if you are not a cop be forewarned which one the cop considers you.

Don

[baby_mouse]

48. Clinton tried to warn Bush about terrorists.

It was the 'pubs who fucked up on 9/11, not the dems.

[CJCRANE]

49. Just tell him

where the hijackers came from and where the funds for 9/11 came from. Then point out that these countries are Bushes "allies".

Then point out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

[eeyore]

56. He already hates Bush

He wants to see that Dems believe in protecting us from terrorism. I'm still trying. :)

[Minnesota Libra]

50. From experience let me help you out here .......

......because like your friend I was one who straddled the fence between republican and democrat and on a couple of issues I still do. So this may get a tad long but this is what convinced me.

Hope some of this helps - keep us posted on your progress

PLEASE concentrate on 9/11 and the fact that Saddam had nothing to do with it. Being a cop he has that legal mind set and to us nothing but the law matters until it starts messing with people's lives in ways that violate the Constitution.

I did a google search on Constitution and Home Land Security and got this
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=ohK&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=Constitution+and+HomeLand+Security&spell=1

Google search on Jury Trial and Home Land Security
http://www.google.com/search?q=Jury+trial+and+HomeLand+Security&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

I know there is an article showing an FBI agent tried to warn the US about 9/11 before it happened and was shut up.

"The end of the petrodollar" article should help too http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=530827 also this

"Agent who caught Moussouri blasts FBI" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11923151

"Voting" http://69.13.2.49/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=240

DailyKos has a lot of stuff on all sorts of issues http://www.dailykos.com

How government uses terror to control us http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_277.shtml

This is a google search result for PNAC http://www.google.com/search?q=PNAC&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Dubia deal http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1171773,00.html

[cap]

52. there's a podcast by general. zinni

about the war...

[DemReadingDU]

53. Good articles here

Thanks for sharing!

[Brewman_Jax]

54. Force him to think for himself

that's why the repubs win--don't worry, we'll think for you. (and they whine about the democrats and the "nanny" state? :eyes:) Ask the hard questions: Where are the WMD's? Why are people dying over there by the hundreds? What has Bush's* policies actually done for you? Why can't the "administration of honor" accept ANY responsibility without saying, "Clinton did it!"

He'll either wake up and not vote repub (at least this time), or he'll turn his brain off and become a lost slavering freeper zombie.

[Vogon_Glory]

55. Team Shrub, Oil, and Terror

You might consider letting your policeman friend know about Richard Clarke's Against All Enemies, which recalls his experiences in the Clinton and GW Bush administrations in the war against al Qaeda. Dear Leader decided to become so fixed on removing Saddam Hussein from power that he allowed Iraq to become a terrorist playground and fumbled the war against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Ask him if he thinks that beefing up seaport security is a worthwhile goal, and why Team Shrub and their Banana Republican allies in Congress are doing so little about it.

You might also point out that developing reliable renewable energy sources not only lessens US and world dependence on Middle Eastern oil, renewable energy also means that much less dough flowing into al Qaeda coffers through Islamic "charities" and extremist Islamic madrasses. What we have had for the last six years is less a defense of America's interests than those of the petroleum industry. That has HINDERED, not helped US national security.

[blm]

57. When he hears that BCCI was the first terrorist bank and being protected

by Bush1 while Kerry was working to uncover the financial networks of the terrorists from 1985-92, The Reagan and Bush administrations put up every obstacle they could and labeled him a conspiracy theory nut.

Kerry wrote in his 1997 book, The New War, about how the terrorist funds are funneled through official banks through moneylaundering, drugrunning and armsdealing ventures and facilitated and protected by high-powered financiers. He was writing the book as Al Qaeda was forming.

UAE was the largest owner of BCCI, and the Bin Ladens had money there. Salem Bin Laden was arrested for his dealings in BCCI - btw, Bush2 made ALOT of money off his dealings with BCCI and with Salem Bin Laden. Usama lost millions when Kerry finally got BCCI shut down.

Ask your friend to do a search on BCCI - Bin Laden - Bush - Kerry. For extra points throw James Bath's name in there, too.

Your friend will soon open his eyes the rest of the way.

[leftchick]

58. quick show him the moron giving a press conference right now

that should seal it!