Bush BROKE THE LAW. Feingold wants to hold him accountable.

[NoodleyAppendage]

Feingold is a true American hero. I look up to him and yet I'm being told tonight that it's his fault that other Senators are not joining in upholding our Constitution. What happened to our principles?

J

[PuraVidaDreamin]

1. What happened to our Country

We are on a fast track to total distruction of democracy.
Just last week Mr. Feingold read the constitution on
the senate floor. His collegues ALL OF THEM act like
it was written on fucking toilet paper.

[journalist3072]

2. And the way to hold him truly accountable

Is to IMPEACH him, not censure him.

When a President has committed "treason, high crimes, or other misdemeanors" (which Bush did) that President is IMPEACHED.

Censure is not good enough.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

3. you are correct and Russ started the dialogue,but his democratic

counterparts don't want to talk. That leave one
conclusion. They are with the excuse of a president
on the issue of illegal wiretapping

[Erika]

11. What facts/stats do you base that conclusion on?

Do you have info I don't?

[PuraVidaDreamin]

17. look how they supported him today

what other fact do you need

He should change his party affiliation to Independent
And I will work very hard to make him the next
president. He is independent. He is altruist.
Everymove the dems make lately prove to me that
all they want it money to be re-elected. They don't
work for the people anymore. Russ Feingold does.

Actions speak louder than words my friend
Peace

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

26. Would you care to explain yourself

because I certainly do not understand what you
are implying

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

35. You still didn't answer the question. How did they "support him today?"

NGU.

[JohnnyCougar]

7. Censure is not good enough.

But it is a start.

[journalist3072]

10. But as I stated in another thread

Here is my worry:

IF the censure move were successful, I worry that it would kill any move for impeachment.

If Bush were censured, I think a lot of Representative in the House would take the view that "We've punished this President already. We are on record as punishing him" and they would say there's no need for impeachment; Bush has been held accountable by the Congress.

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. Conversely, if censure fails

They will say "See? There is no support for impeachment because not even a majority of the Senate agreed that wrongdoing had been committed."

I just don't see anything real coming out of this, sorry. :shrug:

[JohnnyCougar]

14. This is a moot point.

Because if censure fails, impeachment will fail also, wouldn't you think?

[WildEyedLiberal]

19. Yes, but

Let's say the vote for censure is held now, and fails.

We win a majority back in Congress - a more impeachment friendly Congress.

Republicans will do everything they can to block the vote by claiming that the Senate already voted on this issue, and that rehashing it is just playing politics. I do not know if you can resubmit a censure that has already been voted down - maybe you can, but it would be easy to twist such a move into partisan politicking. Yes, impeaching Bush is the right thing to do regardless of public opinion, but if public opinion is NOT in favor of impeachment, then it would be a disaster that would have electoral reverberations.

Bottom line: Dems need to make the case that Bush has committed not just one but many high crimes and misdemeanors clearly and forcefully and demand that he be held accountable. Americans will support an impeachment initiative if they are armed with the truth.

[JohnnyCougar]

22. Americans are not to worry

Over half of them support impeachment already. Failed censure is not going to change their minds adn make them backtrack. If anything, censure makes impeachment seem like a more legitimate issue. But the public needs little more convincing. The people who really need convincing are our representatives. They need to be convinced to grow a spine, because the public is behind impeachment.

Censure has a much better chance at succeeding than impeachment, anyways. And it does not exclude impeachment afterwards, as Feingold said on the Senate floor today. I don't see how this can hurt Democrats at all.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

24. Of course it will fail, This highlights the point that the repugs

all march lockstep. At some point they will need to
break away from this assholes policies or they risks
their seats. I like that Feingold is bringing this up
now! If only the dems would support him, perhaps this
could lead to action like civil resistance on the part
of legistlators- freezing government to fight for
democracy.

[Erika]

15. Held accountable for wire-tapping but not for killing our kids

in an unnecessary war. Censure on one, impeach on the other.

Remember, this is a GOP controlled Congress with a GOP president.

[ClassWarrior]

27. Al Capone was arrested for tax evasion. You think they should have...

...let him go free, since it wasn't for murder or racketeering?

NGU.

[JohnnyCougar]

16. If censure was successful...

It would completely marginalize Bush and tar him for the rest of his term. It would make him easier to impeach, rather than harder. Any mark on Bush's record is a good one right now.

[ClassWarrior]

25. The only one who's sure to fail is the one who doesn't try.

It's not like there's any sort of groundswell for impeachment at the moment. And if our Reps jump to the conclusion you suggest, we're just going to have to educate them once more. The price of freedom is, was, and will always be eternal vigilance.

NGU.

[rodeodance]

39. well, we have a Censure res. in Senate now (Conyers has on in House)

God, it is slow going.

[rodeodance]

40. Repugs have to bring impeachment to floor and vote yes.

Censure is what CAN happen--if we have a few more votes.

[C_U_L8R]

4. what's really disgusting

is how the republican cabal circles
and protects their benefactor... even
though he clearly broke the law.
These shitheads should ALL be incarcerated.
They are breaking their oaths.. and the law.

I'm so disgusted I could spit.

[ClayZ]

8. Me too!

[NoodleyAppendage]

34. Strength in numbers...something we could stand to learn.

For once I would love to see the Dems "circle the wagons" around an issue that is RIGHT, but not politically popular or safe. I think the respect quotient would rise among the lemming public if Dems stood firmly on a position regardless of the consequences.

J

[ClassWarrior]

5. Who says other Senators are not joining him?? It's been like, what...

...seven hours since the speech?? :eyes:

NGU.

[KittyWampus]

6. If Feingold wanted him held accountable, he'd be for IMPEACHMENT

or, more fully, an investigation and then IMPEACHMENT and then, if the impeachment failed, he might want to SETTLE for a censure.

[JohnnyCougar]

9. He is for impeachment. He said that on the floor today.

He thinks that censure is the least people can do. He thinks that censure is a start.

[i miss america]

13. Only the House can formally impeach. Feingold can only introduce a

resolution to censure.

[still_one]

18. It tells you why the democratic party is where it is today

[PuraVidaDreamin]

20. yup, for every Bush shot himself in the foot today

the democrats shoot themselves twice-
once in each foot

[still_one]

21. ain't that the truth

[wisteria]

29. He choose a bad time to make this move, it could have waited IMO. n/t

[ClassWarrior]

30. Till when? 2009?

NGU.

[magellan]

32. Not to be snarky, but could have waited for what?

If you catch a thief in the act, do you wait for the police before calling him a criminal?

If the Dems keep waiting for a "politically correct" moment to execute the law they may suddenly find there's no law left to execute.

[NoodleyAppendage]

33. Waited???? What for? The institution of the fascist coup??

Feingold was tired of waiting. That's why he stood up for democracy. We should be proud to have him as party leader.

J

[rodeodance]

42. He waited till Roberts said there would be no investigation --it was time

to act as the Intell committee sided with Bush--they will make revisions to the NSA that is all.

[cascadiance]

43. And if Roberts is found later to have facilitated a judiciary coverup...

... then he's now also on the list of potential folk to impeach too later in 2007 as well. It's good that Russ waited until Roberts played his hand too. Might help us restore the SCOTUS to some balance after the damage that * has done to it!

[gordianot]

36. What happened to our principles?

They went away after the 2000 election. Many here at DU realized that, many are just now figuring that out. It was bound to happen, Republics are fragile.

[rodeodance]

37. and his Censure petition site is:

http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/page/petition/nsa0206

[ClassWarrior]

38. Ask your Senator this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2512789&mesg_id=2512789

NGU.

[rodeodance]

41. that is a thought stopped. uh uh uh.

[rodeodance]

44. all should hold him accountable. But will we?

[BlueEyedSon]

45. That Bush broke the law is a matter of opinion. Sorry, that's the spin.

The AGUS and the Senate Majority's OPINION is that Bush did not break the law.

[cascadiance]

46. I guess they find for the corporations vs. the people now don't they!

Those self-appointed judges they. I know they would be the judges in the impeachment trial, but it hasn't got to that, nor have they heard evidence in a true trial setting yet either. Would we like judges that rule before they actually see the full evidence of cases too? Oh, I forgot, we have Reggie Walton working out there as one don't we!

I guess we can have preemptive wars now. The senate must feel they can preemptively make a decision on an impeachment as well I guess...