A My Space exchange with Colorado student Sean Allen

[republicansarewhores]

It will be interesting see if Sean really has the courage of his convictions to follow through won't it?

RAW



----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Jerry
Date: Mar 6, 2006 2:59 PM
Subject: Hey Sean!

Will you be enlisting anytime soon? It would be a great way to REALLY show your support for President Bush and the war in Iraq!

You're of age, and they need new recruits. Come on, show your patriotism!



----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Sean Allen
Date: Mar 6, 2006 9:22 PM
Subject: RE: Hey Sean!

I'm 16, and yes im considering going into the marines when of age. I would consider it a great honor to fight for my country and I hope you feel the same.


-Sean Allen



----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Jerry
Date: Mar 7, 2006 2:14 AM
Subject: RE: RE: Hey Sean!



Don't "consider" it. Follow through on your convictions and enlist.

I am 40, already disabled and although I do consider it an honor to serve this country, I do not support wars based on lies and consider it a DISHONOR to our armed services that the President has violated a sacred trust and sent our troops into harms way in Iraq where it was not necessary.

I'm wondering if you felt your teacher did not offer an alternative point of view in your class, why not prepare a presentation for the entire student body citing the successes of the Bush presidency for the past six years and support your position with facts and other data so that the other side is presented instead of possibly costing your instructor his job for sharing his opinion which he clearly stated he did not expect everyone to share?

You might want to educate yourself regarding the Constitution also instead of spending so much time celebrating your "victory" with Sean Hannity:

Amendments available to U.S. citizens:

1:

Religion (free exercise, establishment)
Speech
Press
Assembly
Petition

4: Search and seizure

5:

Double jeopardy
Self-incrimination
Just compensation

6: (protection has been diluted)

Speedy trial
Public trial
Jury trial
Impartial Jury
Notice of charges
Confrontation
Compulsory Process
Counsel

8: Cruel and unusual punishment

Good luck with your life, I think once your 15 minutes of celebrity are up and you get older you may look back on this episode a little differently in how you have turned another man's life upside down because he committed the "crime" of stating an OPINION you did not agree with.

[LiberalPartisan]

1. 'Liberal' professors and teachers are the new 'Communists'

The McCarthyites on the Right are now poised to attack 'liberal academia'. It's happened before but now they're better funded and more focused.

This country really does suck these days.

[donheld]

2. Kick and Recommended.

[republicansarewhores]

3. Heh. Couldn't help sending him this P.S.

I'll let everyone know if he responds.

To: Sean Allen
Date: Mar 7, 2006 2:42 AM
Subject: P.S.

When you enlist, remember those who send you to Iraq didn't think it was their patriotic duty to serve. You can bone up on these details if you'd like. it might be a real education.

[donheld]

8. Good job

Maybe the kid will get some sense.

[wakeme2008]

4. K&R good read

but IMHO the chickenhawk will not have time for a silly tour in the military :grr:

[Skittles]

5. tell Sean the Marines do not like snivelling, snitching little weasels

Sean is a COWARD

[republicansarewhores]

6. If he writes me back...

I will offer to pay for a limousine to take him to the recruitment office when he makes up his mind.

RAW

[BR_Parkway]

7. Sean, Marines have an excellent Delayed Entry Program - you could start

now in preparing your way

http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?pageId=/page/SubSection-XML-Conversion.jsp?pageName=Delayed-Entry-Program&flashRedirect=true

[MadHound]

9. So are you happy? Are you proud of yourself?

Convincing an impressionable teen-ager to go get pulled into the meat grinder. Good show, not:eyes: I don't care who the kid is, I don't care what he did, rather than boisterously feeding him to the war machine, which anybody can do with almost any kid, you need to be persuading him to stay home, learn about what he knows so little of, and perhaps change his politics, rather than his entire life. You had a chance here, albeit a small one, but still and all, you blew it.

This sort of double dog dare you kind of talk is all fine and dandy when you're dealing with a grown up. But feeding this line of bull to an impressionable kid is a crime. What the hell did you expect to accomplish? Do you feel like a big man now that you've thrown another kid into the meat grinder.

Sorry friend, but I find what you did reprehensible and immoral. I'm glad you're not talking to any of the gung ho kids I know, I'd be really pissed. Luckily it is me that they're talking to, and so far I've gotten all I've talked to staying away from military service.

Congratulations pal, here in a couple of years you will be responsible for another body being torn to shreds in the meat grinder. Still feel like the big man:puke:

[kevinbgoode]

10. Excuse me, but the poster here isn't the one who sent troops overseas

it was the Republican Administration and the Republican President and the Republican Congress. And this isn't an "innocent" child - he's old enough to protest his teacher, and nearly old enough to enlist in the armed forces and is somehow already convinced (without any help from DU) that any war a Republican chooses is a just and fair conflict "defending" this country. That attitude didn't come from here - it came from his OWN little Repuke environment.

[MadHound]

21. So rather than try and convince the kid the error of his ways

It's ever so much easier to just send him into the meat grinder, and we can all bask in our moral superiority and schadenfreude:eyes:

We're trying to stop a war here, sending more kids into the meat grinder seems counter-productive to that effort, don't you think?

Excuse me for wanting a kid who is alive and learning valuable lessons than dead and we can all be smug about it. "Damn we sure showed up that kid for daring to hassle a teacher didn't we, he'll never hassle anybody again, har dee har har":puke:

[TheModernTerrorist]

87. don't you think

that if he they WERE "feeding him to the meat grinder" they'd leave out all that stuff about dishonor and illegal war and constitution? :-)

[republicansarewhores]

12. Do you ACTUALLY think he will go enlist MadHound?

:nopity:

I'm proving a point.

This kid's going to bluster he is "thinking" of enlisting to save face and act like the little Republican patriot he projects he is, but he won't do it. He wants to bask in attention screwing up his teacher's life after baiting him in class and recording him and sharing that with the public to get publicity for himself and become 15 minute neocon celebrity.

I'm just returning the favor by sharing with others what he wrote, so we can watch and see if he actually has the integrity to follow through on what he's been "thinking" about. Are you high? He doesn't need me to convince him one way or the other. People should see what a phony he is like the rest of the chickenhawks egging him on and gloriifying him for what he did. I think I gave him plenty of guidance in what I wrote him about standing up for his convictions and what constitutional rights are all about. As much as I was going to waste time doing anyway.

If you want to give him some guidance and help "convince" him how misguided he is, you can look him up on My Space yourself and drop him a line. Something tells me his brainwashing isn't reversible but it only goes so far as screwing around with other people's welfare, like his teacher's. Like Bush, he's all hat, no cattle.

RAW

[MadHound]

23. Ooo, aren't you the expert in adolescent psychology

Puhleeze. Most kids that age will do anything that you double dog dare them to, including going into the meat-grinder. Going into the army not only will win him approval of his parents and peers, but by God, it will show those spineless libs out there, especially those folks badgering me on MySpace. A win-win for him friend, and a loss for all of us, another life wasted in this senseless war.

And my, how you give up so easily, thinking that his brainwashing isn't reversible. The kid is fucking sixteen! Yeah, some notions are indeed set in stone, but the vast majority, including what to do after high school aren't. But hey, just go right ahead and nudge him a little further towards that cavernous maw of death. Good show:eyes:

Sorry, but I still think what you did was reprehensible. We're trying to stop this goddamn war here, and throwing more bodies at the problem won't solve it, quite the opposite. But hey, it's all good right, you got your little rush of schadenfreude, and can now feel morally superior to a sixteen year old kid. Aren't you the big man:puke:

You had better never, ever come on to my nieces or nephews with your bullshit. So far I've convinced three of them to not enlist for this war, and I've a few more to go. Thanks, but I don't need your sort of help.

[republicansarewhores]

29. That's great MadHound

I'm sure you provided a good influence to educate them in their choices.

I don't get the impression you're the type to goad them into recording a teacher and then validating the stunt by helping them shop it around to conservative talk show outlets for attention.

That's the difference between your skills giving guidance and theirs.

I could care less what you think of what I did. I wasn't trying to be a "big" man. I was asking a punk if HE was man enough and adult enough to stand by HIS convictions given his beliefs and what he wrote back could hardly be taken very seriously.

And I didn't offer to "help" you with your nephews and nieces, you might want to chill out a little and quit projecting your judgements on me.

RAW

[MadHound]

34. Even your wording gives you away

"I was asking a punk if HE was man enough. . ." He's not a punk, he's not an adult, he's a fucking kid who is open and impressionable, and boy howdy, I guess you impressed him:eyes:

Look, I don't condone his actions on taping his teacher, but you know what, we all do stupid things when we're kids. However it was the very adult principal, who is taking this way too seriously, who should be shouldering a good deal, if not the proportion of the blame in this matter. This kid didn't suspend him, doesn't hold this teacher's future in his hands, or is taking this entire situation out of context and blowing it out of proportion. That would be the principal. Why not lay into him, write him a letter, you know, something that actually might accomplish a good end. No, instead you're trolling around MySpace harassing a kid and challenging him to prove his manhood(a challenge that most young men that age will take up, you know that as well as I do)

Sorry, but I find nothing redeemable in your actions on this matter, I find it all quite reprehensible. You may be proud of yourself, and you may get slapped on the back by other like minded people around here. But there are many out there who see your actions for what they are, and are repulsed.

So I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, though I hope the next time you pull a stunt like this you pick on someone your own age and maturity level.

[republicansarewhores]

60. Yes, he IS a punk.

"My wording gives me away".

Save the analysis Mr. Spock. I think my message to him was pretty clear in suggesting he grow a spine and really stand up for what he believes in instead of snitching on other people to make a name for himself.

RAW

[Laurab]

85. I wasn't sure if it was against DU rules to call bullshit

but I see someone else has so I join them. This "impressionable kid" has obviously got the support of his parents, or would not have caused the teacher the problems he did. He's proud and bragging, not being punished - and you HONESTLY believe an email from an anonymous myspace poster is going to send him to war? That's really a bit of a stretch.

The emails sent were actually educational - if he's so "impressionable", maybe he'll figure out what's actually going on. Since he's underage, you've got plenty of time to email him and save him from being sent to the meat grinder if you actually think he'd choose to go into the military and fight *'s illegal war. Maybe YOU can save him.

I do think you're being a little overzealous in attacking the op though, and accusing him of sending this innocent child to his premature death....actually a LOT overzealous. The op told him the truth, and if he still supports *, he SHOULD go into the military and let one of the many who DON'T believe in what they're doing, come home.

[timtom]

99. William H. Bonney was about 16

when he killed his first victim. He was not a punk, he was not adult, he was a fucking kid who was open and impressionable, and boy howdy, I guess Pat Garret impressed him.

[Kingshakabobo]

67. Who's the expert in child psychology now?

You have an anonymous internet poster "Convincing an impressionable teen-ager to go get pulled into the meat grinder".

And: nudging "him a little further towards that cavernous maw of death"

And: "here in a couple of years you will be responsible for another body being torn to shreds in the meat grinder" :rofl:


I always love these internets threats.

You'd better not...( insert ridiculous never gonna happen action )......or what?

Get over your self and save the chest thumping, momma bear. No ones gonna come near your children on DU. What are you going to do "cyber" whip his ass?:rofl:

[TankLV]

90. You don't support this war, hence your nieces and nephews are safe.

If you had a hard-on for this ILLEGAL war like the repukes to, then you'd be a hypocrite, and I'd be urging EVERYBODY to go to your home to urge them to enlist, unless THEY also didn't support this ILLEGAL war.

There is nothing that poster has done that is in any way unseemly.

In fact, it should be encouraged.

[sendero]

17. Your opinion is pure bullshit...

... this punk wants to call out adults like an adult, he can act like one.

Better for him to join up having full access to the actual FACTS of the Iraq war than the tens of thousands who joined the military or even worse the National Guard thinking they were going to be actually defending the country.

Fuck this little douchebag - if he wants to go get let Darwin have him.

[MadHound]

25. Of course the kid wants to call out adults like an adult

And quite frankly the rest of we adults should fucking act like adults, instead of acting like little children double dog daring him to needlessly give up his life. Grow the fuck up and smell the carnage! How in the hell are we going to stop a goddamn war if we keep feeding more bodies into the meat grinder?

But hey, you got your little rush of schadenfreude, you can now feel morally superior to a . . . child. Ooo, yeah, that's a real intelligent and adult thing to do:eyes:

[sendero]

26. First off..

.... a 16 year old is hardly a child. Second of all, he cannot join until he is an adult.

Adults who still support this stupid, disastrous war should FUCKING JOIN UP and releive the innocent soldiers who SIGNED UP TO PROTECT AMERICA FROM REAL THREATS.

Schadenfreude my ass MadHound.

[MadHound]

28. A sixteen year old is hardly an adult either

And what happens to him now will influence his later decisions, including whether or not to join the military.

And I agree, adults who are of age and physical condition who support this war should sign up to fight it. Key word, ADULT. This kid isn't one of those yet.

But what he takes in now, what is spinning in his head now will influence his decisions later. Nothing is set in stone in an adolescent mind, but if all he has coming in is a message to enlist, either to please his parents and peers, or to piss off those liberals, that's what he's going to do. Don't you think that it would be better served if he heard a moderating voice, one of reason and logic, rather than somebody double dog daring him to enlist, like a little goddamn kiddies' game?
How the hell are you going to stop this war if you keep stoking the fires with the bodies of our youth?

And yeah, schadenfreude, that's about all I see here. A bunch of people patting themselves on the back because they got a brainwashed kid to throw himself into the fire.

[republicansarewhores]

30. LOL

Yeah. I see Sean Allen "throwing himself on the fire" and "jumping into the meat grinder" because of my "double dog dare" to him.

I think you are acting a little FRAGEELEE over this situation.

RAW

[sendero]

31. All we are arguing here..

.... is at what point a person starts being responsible for his opinions and actions.

I claim it is well before 16. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[MadHound]

38. No, what we're arguing here is whether or not it is morally responsible

To double dog dare a kid to throw his body onto the pyre of war. And yes, legally, physically, psychology and emotionally, this is still a kid we're talking about. His actions in taping the teacher show that if nothing else, that's a disgruntled kid's stunt(not to mention he isn't legally allowed to join the military until he's eighteen). But instead of folks around here acting like adults, and actually contacting the people who matter, the ones who can take action, ie the principle and superintendant, no, we're out trolling MySpace, goading this kid into sacrificing all to this immoral war, just so we can feel superior. Gee, it all seems pretty damn childish to me.

So yeah, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[sendero]

44. MORALLY RESPONSIBLE..

... now you've gone and pissed me off.

Folks like you, folks who think they can fight a corrupt regime happy to send thousands to their deaths for NOTHING get all misty when some PROPAGANDA PUNK is taken to task.

If all Dems were like you we might as well roll over and let the neocons do whatever they want, because you are not going to stop them ever within your ridiculous idea of what constitutes "morality".

Fuck this dumbass kid, fuck his most likely equally dumbass parents, and thank god that some people are willing to call bullshit when they see it without roiling themselves into a piss-bucket of self-hamstrung inaction.

THIS IS A PROPAGANDA WAR. THIS DOUCHEBAG IS AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT. IF YOU THINK A DOUBLE-DOG DARE OF BEING ASKED TO WALK THE FUCKING TALK IS EXTREME THEN YOU ARE HOPELESS.

[MadHound]

50. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

What fucking good does it do to goad this kid into throwing himself into the bonfire of war? All it does is prolong the war, kills the kid, and gives people like you a five second thrill of feel good superiority.

If you want to make a fucking difference in this case, a real difference, then you should go after the ones who will make the decisions in this case, you know, the adults. The principal and the superintendent. Hell, write a LTTE to their local paper, call in on their local radio shows. But going after this kid achieves absolutely fucking nothing.

And you think that this regime is corrupt for sending thousands off to die, and you're right. But how damn corrupt is it to goad a kid into following? Rather than cementing his fucked up viewpoint, why not change it? Gee, coax him into becoming a liberal, or at least not a Bush-bot. How much more of a burr under his family's and the RW's saddle would that be. But noooo, it's so much more fun to goading him into dying:eyes:

You want to pull this with an adult, fine, I have no beef with that. But going after a kid is morally wrong, it is something done for your own feel good, not to effect real change. And it just might get the kid killed. You might be able to live with that kind of blood on your hands, but I certainly can't.

And you can get pissed all you want, I frankly don't give a rat's ass.

[sendero]

83. Nobody..

.... is going to go to war because they were "goaded". Least of all another self-righteous, as long as someone else dies "conservative".

People who lie to instigate wars have blood on their hands. People who ask others to walk their talk owe no nod to your misguided "morality".

[Yuugal]

72. are you channeling H. Thompson?

"thank god that some people are willing to call bullshit when they see it without roiling themselves into a piss-bucket of self-hamstrung inaction."



Say hi to Hunter for me. :)

[sendero]

84. Hey there..

.... I read a Thompson book over 30 years ago. So sue me.

[Inland]

56. I agree I wouldn't have dared a kid.

Will it cause him to enlist? Probably not. But when I interact with impressionable young dolts, I mean, with the future leaders of our society and the hopes of our nation, I usually don't deal with odds when it's their future, and I wouldn't have done it for the purpose of scoring points on a high school sophomore on the internets.

[Catrina]

94. The kid is a brownshirt!! My sympathies are with the little blown to bits

Iraqi babies, their mothers and fathers and the tortured children, remember those? Let him go see it all for himself, if he wants to be such a smart ass, but I would bet anything that this sneaky little informer, (he did go directly to the Nazis, didn't he?) will NEVER be seen anywhere near a recruitment office.

If he meant what he said, if he wasn't just a little coward (and sorry, but at 16 most people I know, were pretty much the way are now, they either had integrity and courage then, and have it now, or they didn't) he'd already be signed up. Don't worry about him, he's a dime a dozen among the fascist types that don't think for a minute about the dead children of Iraq. Just like the chickenhawks he so looks up to.

And if any one of my children ever did such an underhanded, sneaky, disgusting and cowardly thing, he would not need to hear from people on an internet board ~ but I don't have to worry about that ~ it wouldn't happen, because they'd know better.

No doubt he's a rightwing radio fan. Those people are dangerous ~ and no decent parent should allow their children to listen to them. This is the result of cowardly, blowhard, chickenhawk, hateful speech 24/7 that children are exposed to.

[roguevalley]

95. So, we can't call bush out on his shit? Cheney? ANy of the other

warmongers who monger with the blood of everyone but their own. I believe if you are going to do these elective wars, you should be LAWFULLY BOUND to put your own into the fray. Maybe there wouldn't be wars if it cost the mongers something. Any little fucker like this taping me in my class and then going larking around with the tapes SHOULD put his money where his sorry ass is. There are people dying because his sorry ass views are prevailing here. How is his sorry ass exempt. I don't know a single person in my range of acquaintances that are in Iraq and Afghanistan who want to be there. Not one. If this fucker is so gung-ho, then go. Either that or shut the hell up. Bullshit be damned!

RV, who taught this age group and younger for 27 years

[Democrat 4 Ever]

80. Isn't it amazing how a repug puke can pull a stunt like

this and there is always a camera or recording device available for the media? He is now on every news station that will give him two minutes to crow about how he has punked a teacher who was doing nothing but giving an opposing opinion to this asswipe. This IS the problem -there are thousands of little Nazi youth just like this kid waiting in the tall grass to out another liberal. This is mother's milk to this regime.

And, yeah, I agree with the OP that encouraged this guy to get himself to an enlistment center. If you don't get to these kids young and early we end up with another whole generation of people like Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rove, Chimpy, and every other corrupt Young Republican clone they can churn out who won't serve but send others. We need to stop these guys in their tracks. How on earth will they ever know how horrible war is if all they see is Faux news clips and video games? Do I like war? Hell no. Do I hate this war? Double hell yes. But this guy has opened himself up to a challenge to put his sweet little ass where it can do some good. If he is mature enough to ruin a man's life and livelihood than I say he is mature enough to take fight for his country.

[FearofFutility]

22. I highly doubt that this kid will be influenced to enlist based on

an email exchange with someone on the internet.

[MadHound]

27. No, probably not completely

But it is another brick in the wall. His parents give him approval and good attention for doing it, his peers think it's the great gung ho thing to do, and by God, he's showing those godless liberals out there on the 'Net that he's a man of his word*grunt**snort*.

And meanwhile, he's not getting any sort of moderating voice, anybody who's presenting the opposing point of view, giving him advice and counsel about what's really going on over there, what the horror is really like.

Just a bunch of people circled around him, goading him to do it, Do It, DO IT!

Goddamn fucking pathetic:puke:

[republicansarewhores]

32. MadHound...

Have you completely forgotten the fact HE WAS GETTING THAT MODERATING VOICE WITH AN OPPOSING POINT OF VIEW IN CLASS?

And look what it got his teacher.

I'd love to live in your world. It seems all pretty and sparkly over there :toast:

RAW

[MadHound]

40. And now you are thinking that two wrongs are going to make a right?

And no, my world isn't pretty and sparkly over here. My world looks out over vast vistas of absolute idiots, on all sides of the political spectrum. Adults acting like kids, children forced to be adults, blood, death and totalitarianism all around. Not pretty at all.

[Inland]

45. he could have had another moderating voice, but you chose another way.

Apparently, you think it's because he deserved a little smackdown and maybe a little facetime with combat. Pretty big judgment to lay on a sixteen year old, that he only gets one moderating voice and then faces whatever some guy on the internets wants to dish out. Not the way I would have chosen to speak to a sixteen year old.

[republicansarewhores]

62. Well it's a rough world Inland.

Grow up and live in it.

RAW

[Inland]

70. And you're making it just a little rougher.

I don't have to approve of you. "Grow up and live with it" might impress the sixteen year olds, but not me.

[Catrina]

97. This punk is afraid to go to school in case someone calls him a snitch

and you're worried he'll he'll put his precious body in harm's way in Bush's war? :rofl:

He's a YOUNG REPUBLICAN, a Hannity/O'Reilly/Rush chickenhawk protege!! THEY don't fight in the wars they start, they send YOUR KIDS. So stop worrying about him. Wild horses wouldn't get him to Iraq! And if he goes, great! He supports this garbage and was willing to cause untold harm to his teacher because of it. I won't shed any tears if he goes. That's who shoudl be there, the blowhards who think war is great.

He's 16 not 6 for god's sake. Stop babying these kids. In ten years he'll be running for Congress! But he will NOT go to war. He's a coward. He's already proven that ~ so relax .... although personally I hope he does go. He obviously needs an education and if he survives, maybe that'll toughen him up.

This is what David Horowitz was promoting, like the Nazis who had the Nazi youth spy on their teachers and classmates! This country is gone to hell and I have not one bit of sympathy for nazi youth, not then, and definitely not now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. This kid isn't going to enlist

Think about it for a minute. He is going to go off to college and join the young republicans on campus and listen to rush and exchange letters with Sean about how blessed his life is. Then he will graduate, get married and live a charmed life.

He ain't going to enlist. I am willing to put money on it.

[MadHound]

46. You don't know that, I don't know that, but what I do know

Is that if you feed into a kid like this, double dog dare him to do this kind of shit, set up an antagonzing situation in which the only way he's sees he can rebel against it is to throw his body onto the pyre of war, well then, he'll do that, in a heartbeat.

Besides, this kind of stunt serves absoutely no useful purpose. Yeah, the kid got his teacher into hot water, but the one we should be going after are the ones who hold that teacher's fate in their hands, the principal and the superintendent. They're the ones who can effect change, not this kid. All that this sort of action is good for is a quick fix of schadenfreude and moral superiority. And sadly, that quick fix could very well come at the cost of this kid's life.

[republicansarewhores]

47. MadHound 20 20... what the Cheney is your obsession

With the word "schadenfreude"?

Give it a rest already. We get that you know how to use a German word.


RAW

[MadHound]

55. Hey, if the word fits, I use it

And judging from your posts, and the posts of others around here, I would say it fits quite well. Stop taking delight in sending a kid to a possible death, and I'll stop using that word. Until then:shrug:oh well.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. He is a coward

He's too scared to enlist. If he had any courage, he would have confronted his teacher instead of secretly taping him. That was the chicken shit way to solve this problem. So I seriously doubt he will enlist.

[MadHound]

59. We'll see.

I do know one thing about teenagers, if people keep confronting him like the OP, he most likely will enlist, just to "show them damn internet liberals".

[republicansarewhores]

58. "You don't know that, I don't know that, but what I do know"

Are you by any chance related to Rummy?

"There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know."

I'll tell you what I know. This little punk is a fascist in training who can talk the talk, but will never walk the walk (he's too afraid to go back to school now because his peers thinks he's an asshole for what he did.) Waaaaaaaaahhhhh. Your energy would be better spent on someone worth the concern instead of coddling a little asshole whose only interest was publicity and attention at the expense of a well meaning teacher's position.

And as far as pointing the finger at the principles and school supervisors... your attitude is exactly part of the problem. When are you goign to hold an "innocent" 16 year old (and a devious one at that) responsible for the consequences of his actions? He started the ball rolling, he ought to be adult enough at 16 to deal with the fallout.

As I re-read what I originally wrote to him (which was pretty direct and compared to some of the shit here, very cordial) and read your bullshit and consider where this country is at with President Asshole screwing things up on an hourly basis, I feel even more like I am in Bizarro world.

RAW

[MadHound]

73. Ooo, more class eh,now I'm related to Rummy?

Now I understand why you're trolling MySpace, it seems like it's about your speed.

First off, why is talking with the principle and superintendent part of the problem? Seems to me that they are the ones who can currently make the most difference in the fate of this teacher. Writing some LTTEs to local papers, perhaps getting a spot on the local radio, that all seems much more constructive than getting on the 'Net and berating a child. Yeah, his partents have probably indoctrinated him into this fascist sort of thinking, but reinforcing it with your little stunt certainly isn't going to change minds or influence people.

Your action is counterproductive, to say the least. I've had nieces and nephews, born into the same sort of RW fundy fascist family as this kid, gung ho set on going into the military. And each family reunion, or Christmas, or other get togehter, I've pulled one or another aside and given them the straight scoop. Not talked down to them, not berated or belittled them, nor double dog dared them. Just lay the facts out there straight for them to see. And all three who are now of age have now changed their minds, are not going into the military, and are well on their way to being liberals.

But sadly, you did what you did, and reenforced this kid's fucked up thinking and persecution complex. Good fucking show:eys:

[republicansarewhores]

77. Okay Grandma.

You do whatever floats your boat over there.

RAW

[roguevalley]

96. this sort of cracks me up a little. When there's a thread about a

16 year old doing his teacher, he's 'old enough, it isn't abuse or rape' but this? He's a child??

He's a cunning little bitch. Its hard enough to teach well without some little asshole taping you and then giving it to the nazis. Its rather like the little fuckers during ww II who turned in people to the nazis because of what they said and believed.

You have NO IDEA the hell this kid has done to this teacher's career. I saw him on tv this morning and the teacher is one smart man, articulate and good. His explanation of his points and plan was sound and I have done this for 27 years. This kid put the school district and admins in the position of having to cut the teacher's head off or facing the wrath of assorted assholes from all over.

This was a calculated, evil-minded assault not only on that teacher but freedom of speech and academic freedom. That teacher is marked, his career short-circuited. Anyone who doesn't think so doesn't know academia now. Fuck the kid. His parents are a disgrace.

[SPKrazy]

89. If He Is, It Won't Be Because Of The OP!

Surely you don't think the OP has any influence on this person's life?

[TankLV]

92. Oh, I would BET my entire life savings on it that he won't enlist!

You can take that to the bank.

[Inland]

49. Willing to bet his life on it?

Because the wager has already been made, IMO, without your cash.

[republicansarewhores]

63. Hey like I said...

I'll spring for a limousine for him to the recruitment office "when" he makes his decision.

It's the least I can do.

RAW

[Inland]

64. It is. The very, very, very least you could do.

What a huge recommendation for your course of action.

Well, not really. The very least would have been to not take the risk of harm and fueling the war by daring a kid to enlist.

[republicansarewhores]

69. Well last time I checked, the limit for "kid"...

Ended at 12.

Then they become TEENAGERS. At 18, ADULTS. He's 16. And based on his deviousness, he's no babe in the woods.

RAW

[Inland]

75. Whatever. And innocence isn't a prerequisite.

You made your choice that this young man wouldn't get another moderating voice, at least not if you could help it. Just one per lifetime, then it's whatever the miltary and some stranger on teh internet dishes out, huh?

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. I am not betting anyone's life

That would be a tad arrogant in my book of rules.

[Inland]

74. Well, that's the terms of the wager, whether it was meant or not.

Daring a sixteen year old to enlist may not make a difference. But if it does, his life is risked. I don't think the taunting will have a lasting effect, but it would be more than arrogant for me to presume I know so much about him and I'm not willing to take the bet. Some are, thinking he deserves a little risk for squealing on his teacher.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. I didn't nor would I ever dare him to enlist

I say (and I am willing to bet on THIS) that he will NEVER serve in any military unit. He isn't going to enlist. That is certainly not a dare.

[libhill]

93. Not to worry -

I understand your point, but there's little to fear for this lad, I'm sure. He's just another of those Repuke blowhards, who spew forth propaganda about "troops fighting for freedom", while doing whatever they can to subvert freedom on the home front. He's off to a good start, too. I'm quite sure that when the time comes to put his money where his mouth is, he'll find that he "has other priorities". Not unlike one of his probable heros, "Deadeye" Dickhead.

[H2O Man]

11. A "useful idiot"

in the War on Dissent.

[zbdent]

13. Isn't it interesting that this "kid" is 16, and he will wait to see what

kind of President (dem or Repuke) will be elected in 2008 . . . when he's of "enlistment age" . . . hey, remember, didn't Georgie H.W. Bush lie about his age and enlist? Didn't a bunch of "The Greatest Generation" lie about their age to enlist to defend America from tyranny? Unlike today's "patriots" who claim that they're doing more to support the troops by staying in college while they "do shit" . . .

And, of course, this twerp will not enlist anyway . . .

[Inland]

14. I'm kinda wondering about the smacking around of a 16 year old.

It's not the tone I would have taken, and as for challenging him to enlist, well, his parents should keep him off the internets. That's all.

[republicansarewhores]

15. They're not doing a very good job policing his internet time

And by the looks of the support and egging on he's getting at his MySpace page, I think it's pretty clear he won't be running down to the mall to sign up anytime soon despite what he says. In fact, from what i've read of how proud his dad was of what he did "exposing" his teacher, I'd guess the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.

http://www.myspace.com/seanallencomedy


Some highlights:


***********************************

3/4/2006 11:56 AM

Kudos to you for exposing your anti-American socialist teacher. Please keep in mind that I will help you in any way I can with your efforts on my e-zine and newsletter, RepublicanVoices.org which is a driving force against liberal indoctrination in the public schools. We average with around 25, 000 unique visits per day. If you need any help with this effort, please feel free to send me an email at [e-mail] !

The Great Gatsby


3/1/2006 5:49 PM

hey i realize a lot of people are gonna give you shit for this so you need ANY help, hit me up
The Great Gatsby


3/1/2006 3:52 PM

SEAN, U GOT A TEACHER FIRED! I HOPE UR HAPPY, CAUSE I AM, THAT LEFT WING PINKO COMMY MOTHERFUCKER

***********************************

I guess you never encountered any 16 year old punks when you were growing up to wish someone set them straight and called them on their shit when they were getting away with it?

If he's old enough to take the heat for committing a crime, he's old enough to take some heat for a really stupid action that will probably cost a teacher his job. The kid went into class and set the situation up so he could make trouble. And he's being congratulated for it by jackbooters like Sean Hannity. It's disgusting.

RAW

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Did you see where he makes fun of Jehovas?

This little coward is also a religious bigot.

[adigal]

79. I just wrote an open letter to Hannity about what he is doing

last night on here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=591660&mesg_id=591660

He is, day after day, encouraging kids to secretly tape their teachers (after telling them to make sure their state is a one party consent state) and to send him their tapes. One young college student offered to sign an affadavit over what his teacher said, because he failed to tape his teacher. Some people here were even considering setting Hannity up by making fake tapes and calling him with them to shame him.

This is so "Hitler Youth": I'm sorry, but to tell kids to violate the trust between a teacher and a student is disgraceful. To tell a student to sneakily tape his/her teacher is so incredibly offensive, that I am sure Hannity, the dolt, does not even know of the historical precedents and how he looks by doing this. Hannity, and this Allen boy, need to start educating themselves so they can argue on the facts, because the propaganda machine is breaking down. They need to encourage smart, young republicans to go into academia if they have a problem with its being liberal. But as I said on the other thread, they have very few takers, because most republicans see it as easier to make money raiding Grandma's pension fund, rather than the pittance colleges pay.

This boy needs to be educated, but I think it is too late.

[mondo joe]

33. His parents have failed to supervise him, so it falls to the community.

In this case the internet community.

[Inland]

35. This is the rationale of discipline that also popped up.

As if this were some sort of adult mentoring or discipline. I sure hope not. It did look like a double dog dare to enlist, hardly the sort of thing that HS counselors do while the parents are disengaged.

[mondo joe]

37. HS Counselors are restricted in ways others are not, including both

parents and fellow community members.

[Inland]

42. "Community members" means the internet now?

We used to call them "strangers".

[mondo joe]

43. Strangers aren't people you share communications with, are they?

Between blogs and message boards, if you are participating you're not exactly a stranger, are you?

And this is a fine - though harmless - lesson for the young man. His parents can help them understand it, if they are involved.

[Inland]

48. Ummmm......yeah, I'm pretty much a stranger.

I have communications with strangers every day, and don't feel that because their parents aren't in the vicinity and I disagree with their politics it's an invitation to give lessons, and even if I did, it wouldnt' be the "lesson" of this particular smackdown. IT's not really a mentoring situation, or avuncular advice, and it's wrong to pretend it was.

[mondo joe]

61. It's wrong to pretend it was a "smackdown".

No harm was incurred.

[Inland]

86. You can use a different term.

I thought mine was good enough, and whether there was harm incurred, I don't really know. But whether there was harm done isn't the highest standard, and it's pretty clear from some of the postings that some think a little bit of harm served him right.

It's simply not the way I would have done it, no matter what one calls it.

[DS1]

18. Who the F is Sean Allen?

[republicansarewhores]

20. He was an unknown 16 year old comic...

And a modern day Hitler youth imitator when he passed his recording around and got his teacher suspended for expressing himself in class on Herr Bush.

RAW

[chancew]

19. On the TODAY Show,

They even said the kid/parents didn't send the tape to the school board but they took it to the local conservative radio stations and didn't stop looking until they found one that would air it. Seems like they were hungry for attention.

[republicansarewhores]

24. One thing's for sure...

I bet he's getting a REAL education now...

And experiencing the downside of that celebrity he was craving shopping the tape around to get his teacher in trouble.

RAW

[Maddy McCall]

51. Until they realized that the tide had turned against them.

Welcome to DU, chance! :toast:

[chancew]

88. Thanks...

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Really??

Well now I am even more pissed off.

If the kid wanted to meet Sean Hannity. I would bet a simple letter or email may have done the trick. Taping his teacher was kind of an extreme way to get his hero Sean's attention.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. How about teaching this kid critical thinking?

He could have gone to his teacher or to the principal and stated his objections to the teacher's lectures. Of course, then there would be no tape and he wouldn't be on Sean Hannity's buddy list.

This kid needs to learn some critical thinking AND problem solving skills. I am sitting here wondering how the hell he got into an AP class.

[republicansarewhores]

41. Simple.

Because he's a devious little shit that knows how to manipulate things and people.

RAW

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Did you see where a poster above said he didn't even take the

tape to the school board? He and his dad shopped around for a radio show that would play it.

Damn now I really am pissed off. What a devious little shithead and what a horrid role model his dad is.

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. Send the little NAZI THIS!

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/enlistment.pdf

:hi:

[MrScorpio]

54. A good number of 16 year olds are idiots

That pretty much proves it, right there

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. This one could very well damage the career of an

excellent teacher.

[fishnfla]

81. Cant compare bush to Hitler, cant confront the teenager on the internet

freedom is on the march, double quick goosestep.

[libhill]

91. I wonder -

if this guy would have turned in the teacher, had he been bad mouthing Clinton. I doubt it.

[republicansarewhores]

98. Well, one day later, and no response from Private Allen

I think he crawled back under his MySpace rock and was too chickenshit to respond.

Game over.

RAW

[opihimoimoi]

100. Pawns do not think...they are used and abused b y others....