They burned his uniform!!!! (Pat Tillman)

[wicket]

They burned his blood soaked uniform!!! :grr: :grr: :grr:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/22/AR2005052200865.html

The latest investigation, written about by The Washington Post earlier this month, showed that soldiers in Afghanistan knew almost immediately that they had killed Tillman by mistake in what they believed was a firefight with enemies on a tight canyon road. The investigation also revealed that soldiers later burned Tillman's uniform and body armor.

Even though it's been a year since this was first revealed, it still makes me blind with rage to think about :grr:

I feel so horrible for his family :cry:

[Hobarticus]

1. Had to destroy forensic evidence, like any other murderer...n/t

[Junkdrawer]

3. Powder Burns? Too close a range to be an "accident"?

:shrug:

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. Specifically, the bullet holes in the back of his vest, no doubt

Poor guy died a patsy while trying to be a hero. Shame on his killers.

[Hobarticus]

31. Bingo...you win a walk-on role on CSI Khandahar n/t

[fishnfla]

59. Witnesses report shot 3 times in forehead eom

[Cronus Protagonist]

65. What about all the other shots?

et tu brute and all that...

[EVDebs]

42. Same m.o. as during the JFK murder in Dallas '63

They destroyed the limo, replaced chipped curb (where bullet fragment hit), took the body out of state for autopsy (illegal), gave the brain (what was left) to family on the q.t. for disposition w/o documentation leading to speculation it was 'stolen', altered the Zapruder film and autopsy photos...

Check the Assassinationscience website's
http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/wound.html

info for a starting point. Also, Joan Mellen's new book on intelligence's role in the murder at
www.joanmellen.net A Farewell To Justice.

When the powersthatbe want to mess with catapulting propaganda, they will do just about anything and get away with it. But only for a little while. Blowback always is worse than if they just told the truth. Didn't they listen to their parents ?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

57. No right thinking DA would...

...view the burning of Tilman's uniform and body armor as anything but the intentional destruction of evidence for a homicide, and it would make any DA worth his salt very determined to bring charges.

[babylonsister]

2. There must have been some pesky evidence they had to

get rid of. :grr: :grr:

[Sequoia]

5. No doubt, plus he wouldn't star in their gun-ho hero poster boy role.

Their little plan backfired in the worst possbile way. Poor familes of all those killed.

[FlemingsGhost]

4. Our "hero" should have stuck with football. (n/t)

Flem.

[wicket]

60. He's a hero to me

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051024/zirin

[onecent]

7. but...but...but....*dipshit needed a hero...

[Tanuki]

8. Not just his uniform...

His personal journal also disappeared. Tillman had expressed opposition to the Iraq war, and was silenced. There is much, much more to all of this:
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/articles/Niman.JanFeb06.html

[Buck Rabbit]

11. Oh my, I knew none of this.

That article at your link was mind blowing. Have you seen any other corroborating material?

[Tanuki]

14. More here

from the San Francisco Chronicle:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL&hw=pat+tillman&sn=002&sc=993

[erpowers]

16. Speaking Out-No

For those who think Tillman would have come out against Bush that probably would not have happened. Tillman was in the Army and he would not have been able to speak out without being kicked out of the military.

[Career Prole]

41. He didn't enlist in the army for life,

and all indications are he would have been vocal against the war once he was out.

[erpowers]

70. Problem

The problem is he would not have been out in time for the election. From my count he had only been in the Army for three years. Unless he only signed up for three years he would have had another year in the military. Therefore, he would not have been out of the military in time enough to speak out against the War in Iraq and Bush being reelected.

[Career Prole]

71. There was more at stake here than just the '04 election.

An entire administration, its policies, as well as the party that put them in power are going down if the full truth ever comes out. That's what they're trying to protect...the whole shitaree, as it were. Otherwise they could have just stopped lying after the '04 election, no?
Hell, Pat Tillman might have been able to beat Kyl in Arizona in '06 if he wanted it.

[BuyingThyme]

29. ...

...What was covered up was the embarrassing reality surrounding the futility of his death-the wasting of an iconic American hero. What was fabricated was a fairy tale story of a heroic battle, one that would support the Bush administration's global war effort while not undermining its military recruiting...

http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/articles/Niman.JanFeb06.html

[Coexist]

33. Coulter's line in the original German...

"An American original-virtuous, pure and masculine, like only an American can be." (Max Blumenthal, blogging for the online Huffington Post, asked if we could have Coulter's line in the original German)."

...That is funny.

[EVDebs]

43. Jeepers. Wilson/Plame get retaliated on...now guys in country too ?

The right of every grunt to bitch about the mission is sacrosanct. The right to dissent at home is too !

[leftchick]

49. omg! Now it seems more likely it was an intentional murder!

no fucking friendly fire about it!

<snip>

As both wars droned on, Tillman, the picture perfect poster boy, evolved into something of a wild card. With a Chomsky meeting on the horizon there existed a very real possibility that Tillman, in the weeks leading up to the 2004 presidential election, might go public with his anti-war, anti-Bush views, dealing a critical blow to the very foundation of the Bush administration's propaganda pyramid. That day never came, however. On April 22, 2004, Tillman was killed while on patrol in Afghanistan by three American bullets to the head.

.... I had no idea about this! Thank you for the link.

[FreedomAngel82]

62. I'm sure they know where it is too

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. COVER UP! Plain and simply...

they are trying to cover up a MURDER.

[elfin]

10. Coverup yes, but why

would they want to murder Tillman? Confused here.

I suspect it was mistaken "friendly fire" - but when the shooters realized WHO had been killed, they covered it up to protect themselves, not to mention the potential use of his death for war propaganda purposes.

This STINKS.

I remember that he was reported to have felt that the Iraq attack was wrong.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. Saw something he wasn't supposed to see?

Then the shooter(s) or the CO didn't realise at the time that this was a high profile grunt that would be noticed if he died?

Just playing "what if?"

[erpowers]

15. Agree

I tend to agree with you. I think so regular soldier who may have had a family, needed a job, and did not have millions to fall back on. I am not trying to bash Tillman for being a pro football player and having millions of dollars. I just think some of the soldiers were just scare at the thought of what would happen if it was found that they had accidentally shot Pat Tillman of all soldiers. I think they were just trying to stay out of trouble for making a mistake. In addition, they may have thought what family would not want to have a hero in the family or on the flip side what family wants to know their family member died in a friendly fire accident

[rocktivity]

20. But why destroy evidence that would have SHOWN it was an accident?

If the crime is the coverup, then we're talking about possible conspiracy and obstruction, not possible negligent homicide.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. Yes but we don't know, do we? For all we know, someone in the

unit might have hated or resented the guy for his fame, money or politics, and decided to "frag" him out in the field.

Given that the first story we got was about the guy's heroic firefight, and that we know is completely false, just like Jessica Lynch rescue story, the only thing we know is that we don't know.

[EVDebs]

44. Google up stories on CNN and PsyOps , CIA and Hollywood etc.

The intel/psyops people said they were going to use Hollywood and p.r. spin during the eternal war we are now in. Now they just can't turn off the deception spigot, nor can they turn off the 'fear spigot' whenever * gets into a poll dip.

[DawgHouse]

13. This is horrible but not really surprising.

[malaise]

17. If they knew immediately

why did they use him to push their war and attempt to cover it up.

[bullwinkle428]

18. Jim Rome (sports-talk host) went on a rant about this today - he

practically worshiped Tillman, after having him as a guest on the show several times during his playing career, and was one of the speakers at his eulogy. His comments on the subject taken from his website:

"The Army is launching a criminal investigation into the April 2004 death of Pat Tillman. Initially his death was called an accident and the result of friendly fire, but the Defense Department has decided an additional step needs to be taken. Considering how badly the case has been mishandled to this point, why should we believe anything we’re going to hear now?

His family and the American public were told that he died in a firefight in April of 2004, yet a report by the Army later found that troops with Tillman knew at the time that friendly fire killed him. At the time of his memorial, officials were reportedly aware that the death had been caused by an act of “gross negligence” yet we were led to believe that he died in a completely different manner. . We were lied to then, but now you’re going to tell us the truth? The most appalling aspect of this is not how he died, but rather that the military misled everyone about the circumstances around his death and attempted a cover-up. Of course the cover-up, is always worse than the original incident and this is no different. There was nothing Pat Tillman abhorred more than dishonesty. The circumstances of his death don’t make him any less heroic, but the subsequent (cover-up) is appalling."

[wicket]

19. It's so freakin' infuriating!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[javadu]

26. I Love Jim Rome

I hope he keeps everyone updated on this. By the way, Jim Rome is not afraid to discuss politics on his show and he is clearly left of center.

[wicket]

27. He's great

And I too hope he keeps hammering this issue.

[bullwinkle428]

32. He's not extremely overt in expressing his leanings, but he certainly

does like to get his shots when he can - things like, "Have they found those WMDs in Iraq yet? Anybody?" :applause:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. Yes he smashes shrubco. Probably why they took him off the air here in

Dallas.

[CottonBear]

48. I like him too! I was trying to find non-RW talk radio & found Jim Rome.

and I was pleasantly surprised to hear a different poltical perspective on North Georgia AM radio which seems to be RW hate talk 24-7. (Air Atlanta doesn't have a great signal and we just got it last year.) Maybe sports talk is a "safe place" to espouse other poltical views.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. So much for not leaving a man behind.

[Lerkfish]

22. innocent accidents do not need to be covered up

[preciousdove]

23. They burn all blood soaked stuff. Bio-hazard. Not a smoking gun.

Family does deserve answers but lets not jump to hasty conclusions, that doesn't help either.

[wicket]

25. That's a bullshit excuse from the military

Blood soaked items are ALWAYS preserved from normal crime investigations, this shouldn't be any different.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

40. If they were investigating, they don't need to burn. Keep it in ziploc bag

[ProfessorGAC]

47. So, The Body ISN'T A Biohazard, But The Uniform Is?

That doesn't even make sense. Why would the blood soaked body armor being any more hazardous than the body?
The Professor

[Hobarticus]

50. Tillman's burned gear is minor, compared to the case as a whole

Weapons discipline and fratricide incidents are taken VERY seriously in the armed forces. If there is any chance that there was a friendly-fire incident in the field, according to the men reporting the incident, then there's an investigation.

The key there is the witnesses. And apparently some aren't agreeing with the offical account long after the fact, they've spoken up, and the Army is following up. This investigation is based on much more than just some burned bloody clothing, that itself wouldn't spark an inquiry.

[Minstrel Boy]

52. journals also

They're a well-known bio-hazard.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

55. LOL if it weren't so sad

[BuyingThyme]

24. It's amazing how poorly our "troops" are treated with the Chimp

in office. They're little more than propaganda cannon fodder for Rush Limbaugh. Well, nothing more, really.

Republicans are truly incredibly stupid people.

[spanone]

28. Shame on these bloodthirsty lying motherfuckers.

[negativenihil]

30. what in the hell is going on here?!?

This is just sad...

[napi21]

36. I want to know what they could possibly discover in another

investigation almost 2 YEARS after the fact? The forensic evidence is gone, what are they going to do, interrogate people again? If the military does THIS investigation, why do they think they'll get a different result this time?

I understand the parents looking for answers, I just do't they're possible to find.

[Yuugal]

37. Does the uniform have a flag on it?

Did they burn a flag?

[Strathos]

38. What would be the reason to murder him?

Because he was atheist? Because he was outspoken? I don't understand the motive.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

39. Sometimes people murder those they just don't like, or who anger them.

[Hobarticus]

51. A guy I went to high school with never made it out of boot camp

He died in a 'weapons malfunction', alone in a slit trench. He wasn't even supposed to have live rounds on him, but he had one, chambered and ready.

The official finding was that he had dropped his weapon, it discharged, and he was killed by the contraband live round.

His mother was an editor of our town's paper, and she was told off the record that her son wasn't very well-liked and it's possible that he was set up with live rounds to get him in trouble, and that what had happened was truly an accident. That's the "nice" version she was told. The other version is that someone else on the exercise had live rounds, and used them.

Scary stuff.

[Strathos]

63. Yes, VERY scary stuff!

WAR, what is it good for?

[Hobarticus]

64. War? Hell, this was peacetime!

Still, can't imagine it being any easier.

[Xithras]

67. Happens more often than most think.

There was a shooting when my sister was in bootcamp that killed a guy as well. They weren't supposed to be firing live rounds that day, so one soldier thought it would be "funny" to light up another soldier with blanks. Problem was, the rifle he picked up belonged to another soldier who HAD been firing live rounds, and the soldier was killed by 3 rounds to the back. The soldier who fired the shots did get several years in prison for it.

[erpowers]

73. Sucide

I know that a large amount of people do not want to hear things like this, but it is possible this kid committed sucide. I know that when someone is alone or goes off by themselves they are not supposed to be allowed to have weapons do to the possibility that they may commit sucide due to stress. This kid may have wanted out of boot camp and the drill sergants may have been forcing him to stay and he may have just decided to take his life just to get out of boot camp.

[SoCalDem]

75. From what I have been told...

Gung-Ho types who are in a lead position, often anger the guys they lead, who sometimes just want to keep their heads down, and NOT engage the enemy.. they get an idea into their heads that "lt.so-and-so" is gonna get them killed...and that's how we get fragging..

It happened all the time in Viet Nam, and probably in other wars too.. The forensics these days are a lot better though, and incidents are investigated better than they used to,.,.

[EFerrari]

45. The thing is, instead of first thinking about Pat, the first thoughts

were CYA, top to bottom.

The Cabal mocked him with their concocted story of his last words. What more does a man really have than his voice?

And while his buddies burned his uniform, where was he? In a body bag? Did they bother to cover his nakedness or did they just strip him and get to work, leaving him to lie there like so much meat?

This isn't "friendly fire" -- this is an atrocity.

That, kids, is how much your "ultimate sacrifice" is valued by these people. The soldier drag means nothing to them, and neither does your cold dead body.

[wicket]

54. "This isn't "friendly fire" -- this is an atrocity."

Amen Sfexpat, AMEN.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. The real truth: Tillman's parents should be greatful that the Army didn't

charge them for his missing uniform and body armor.

[WiseButAngrySara]

53. K&R. I'm sickened, saddened and stunned. ....n/t

[quiet.american]

56. "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat f—ing Tillman, dammit...."

I agree -- it is another enraging horror in a world of horrors championed by Bush -- who continues to dance, laugh and smile, while the good die young.... given the account below, no wonder a coverup was deemed necessary....

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL

Pat Tillman, according to testimony, climbed a hill with another soldier and an Afghan militiaman, intending to attack the enemy. He offered to remove his 28-pound body armor so he could move more quickly, but was ordered not to. Meanwhile, the lead vehicle in the platoon’s second group arrived near Tillman’s position about 65 meters away and mistook the group as enemy. The Afghan stood and fired above the second group at the suspected enemy on the opposite ridge. Although the driver of the second group’s lead vehicle, according to his testimony, recognized Tillman’s group as “friendlies” and tried to signal others in his vehicle not to shoot, they directed fire toward the Afghan and began shooting wildly, without first identifying their target, and also shot at a village on the ridgeline.

The Afghan was killed. According to testimony, Tillman, who along with others on the hill waved his arms and yelled “cease fire,” set off a smoke grenade to identify his group as fellow soldiers. There was a momentary lull in the firing, and he and the soldier next to him, thinking themselves safe, relaxed, stood up and started talking. But the shooting resumed. Tillman was hit in the wrist with shrapnel and in his body armor with numerous bullets.

The soldier next to him testified: “I could hear the pain in his voice as he called out, ‘Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat f—ing Tillman, dammit.” He said this over and over until he stopped,” having been hit by three bullets in the forehead, killing him.

The soldier continued, “I then looked over at my side to see a river of blood coming down from where he was … I saw his head was gone.” Two other Rangers elsewhere on the mountainside were injured by shrapnel.

[wicket]

58. His last words: "I am Pat f—ing Tillman, dammit!"

My god :( :cry:

[FreedomAngel82]

61. This is awful!

So what the hell is going on?! :mad: This is disgusting!! So something happened.

[AnnieBW]

66. Was He Fragged?

So, are they insinuating that Tillman was fragged?

[wicket]

68. kick

:kick:

[dogday]

69. Chapter 2: Burning the evidence

alway burn all traces of clothing etc so it cannot be examined and the truth cannot be found....

[RBHam]

72. Psy-Ops...

Propaganda.

For the Calyle-Halliburton Administration, Pat Tillman was a problem.

They fixed it.

They thought.

Will anybody finally understand that there are rogue elements WITHIN the US Army who take their orders directly from Bush's "SS" - Rummy's famous "Special Operations Branch" - and are loyal to their Fuhrer first, the American people second.

These units are also used in Iraq for false flag terror attacks to foment civil war. Which is the excuse the Miltary Industrialists need to keep making profits from an ever-widening, ever-lengthening, conflict in the middle east.

The PNACers are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Redneck Socialist]

74. Blood stained clothing = hazardous material

I believe they consider bloodstained clothing and equipment to be hazardous material and destroy it. Someone who knows more about military procedures could perhaps confirm this.