Abortion and Red States - your thoughts?

[trogdor]

My reaction to the recent trend in red America to pass the most onerous abortion ban possible to pick a fight with pro-choice people in the newly-realigned Supreme Court was simply this.

Fuck 'em. They voted for these imbeciles, and there is no greater fool than the person who follows one, so fuck 'em. They wanted this. They prayed for this. Now they've got it. Let them suffer the dire consequences; it's the only way some people wake up and start paying attention.

So what are your thoughts? Let 'em hang out to dry, or sympathize with them?

[kick-ass-bob]

1. I did? Oh nevermind, it's just another red state bashing thread.

:eyes:

[Sugar Smack]

24. Yyyyyyyep. Just another.

:eyes:

[havocmom]

2. Before condemning the entire populations of red states,

might wanna see how many providers are willing to preform abortions in big blue places. Legal restrictions aren't the only problems. Lots and lots of care providers won't do abortions in many areas now due to threats of violence, boycotts and protests at homes of those who do provide this care.

It is NOT just a RED STATE problem. Painting it as such will help us NOT win friends and NOT influence people :eyes:

[raccoon]

16. Ramen. nt

[DS1]

3. If it led to the eventualy moving of progressives to blue states

which allowed the blue states to secede from the union, then I'm all for it.

[Bridget Burke]

5. The "Red State" women who will have problems are the poorer ones.

Do you have lots of good jobs ready for them up there?

[DS1]

7. Sure, walling in the red states

[Bridget Burke]

10. Where would you draw the borders?

www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/election/

How sad that some people are still falling for the Red State/Blue State dichotomy. Divide & conquer works so well on the credulous.

[adigal]

27. LOL!!! We would need a BIG fence

to keep out all the people who finally realize they don't want to be stuck in Fundie Land!!

[trogdor]

6. FWIW...

...a migration of progressive people to already blue states would cede the Senate to the Repigs, and probably make secession, or the threat of secession, necessary to protect the rights of those states.

[Gato Moteado]

13. good point....

but it also might sway the congress and electoral college in the other direction sice blue states would grow in population and red states would shrink.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. You are assuming there are a lot of progressive

people willing to move for their politics, just to be in a state that votes blue. Personally, I wouldn't. It would be like moving to Canada. All that work and they elect conservatives. You can't get away from it. Best, to me, to stay and fight locally.

[Gato Moteado]

32. yes, it is a huge assumption.....

...it was more of an interesting scenario to ponder. i doubt anyone thinks it could or would really happen.

hell, even if we progressives did decide that it would be a good idea to do something like this, we're just not organized enough to actually get it done.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

34. You know what they say

working with progressives is like herding cats

[adigal]

30. Do you ever wonder how we can survive this?

It almost seems to me to still be the south versus the north with the midwest throwing in with the south and the west coast throwing in with the north.

I don't think I will see this resolved in my lifetime. I think this fight is going to go on forever, because these beliefs are rooted in religion. I think there might eventually be some kind of attempt at separation, perhaps when the right goes too far, perhaps overturning Roe v. Wade, and banning abortion federally or attempting to institute more and more restrictive laws with no overview whatsoever.

Personally, I would love to leave the south back in the 19th century, where much of their population wants to be, but I know there are many good progressives who live there. I don't understand why they still want anything to do with the northeast, except that they think that they are going to destroy us politically, but still get our tax dollars that flow to the poorer states, many of which are southern.

We might get back the House and the Senate, but the fundies and the corporations are not going to give up power, especially when so many Democrats are wedded to corporations (Joe Biden anyone??) also.

[Bridget Burke]

4. So, you'll fuck the women but leave them with the consequences?

Yeah, I'm sure you used "fuck 'em" as a figure of speech. Even the "Redness" of some states is questionable. And sizeable minorities did vote for Democrats.

Sounds like Nader, with his "things need to get much worse before they'll get better." Although I'm past worrying about an unwanted pregnancy, I feel for these women more than you do.

[Katherine Brengle]

8. This problem extends far beyond "red" states-----

When this hits the Supreme Court, it will have the potential to effect the entire country, not just so-called "red" states.

Also, there are a lot of true-blue folks in these "red" states who don't deserve to have their rights trampled on either.

[havocmom]

25. BINGO! It is NOT just an issue in 'red states'

They are gonna make it a Supreme Court Case via some red state law. When the Supreme Court (with the new appointees) get a case challenging some 'red state' law, EVERYBODY will find out bashing rural areas was pointless!

It effects ALL of us and it does so by putting a chip on a shoulder then daring somebody to knock it all the way to the SCOTUS for a little game called Overturn Roe.

People, stop the red state bashing! That is just a derisive diversion at best and bigotry at worst. We need to be better than that!

[MADem]

9. No one is forcing anyone at gunpoint to exercise their right to terminate

If ya don't wanna do it, well, DON'T. Otherwise, stay the hell away from the woman's uterus.

It's no one's business but the business of the owner of said uterus.

[adwon]

11. You know

it wouldn't hurt to check what an organization like NARAL has to say on the subject. Here's a link to their overview of abortion bans in the US.

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/choice-action-center/in_your_state/who-decides/maps-and-charts/map.jsp?mapID=16

It's not as though access to abortion is solely restricted to 'red' states.

[azureblue]

12. State's Financial responsibility?

I believe there is already a financial responsibility precedent set- if the state passes law that places the cost of complying with the law upon the state's citizen, then the state is required to pay for that incurred expenses. Happens all the time in real estate, & No Child Left Behind's costs are an example of this.
So the question is, & I'm not joking: if the State passes a law forcing birth, Is the state responsible for paying for all prenatal care, support of the mother through pregnancy if she is unable to work, and for care & upbringing of the child until he or she graduates from college or finds a job?

[Senator]

14. <deleted>

[pat_k]

15. Ins Co's will react if they must pay for flights and care out of state. .

About two-thirds of insurance plans routinely cover procedures to end unwanted pregnacy

For women who do not have local access to services, we must demand that such plans also cover transportation to and care in other states or locales that provide services.

When restrictions to services start eating into the profits, elected officials may find themselves under unexpected pressure from the powerhouse health insurance lobby (which currently gives about 60% of their dollars to Republicans).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. the non-thinking immediate gut reaction part of me says fuck em!

however the thinking and rational part of me knows that the people who will suffer for this are not the ones who voted for this administration....and even if they did poverty and ignorance can be pardoned...the bush administration cannot.

[Ava]

19. I'm in a redstate.

I'm in one of the worst of them, Alabama. I don't support bush and his cronies and don't think all of us should be punished for those who do. I didn't want this. I didn't pray for this, and I am not happy we now have this.

damn yankees ;)

:sarcasm:

[adigal]

31. Come live up here in NY!!

It's a little cold, but I love my state!!

[Hobarticus]

20. So, if my state went blue in '00,and red in '04, am I only half-fucked?

I can't keep up.

[katty]

21. I'm seeing alot of Red state defecters in LA lately

[bleedingheart]

22. It isn't just Red States --- PA is a Blue State where Abortion is being

challenged.

Our state legislature is controlled by republicans and a great many democrats are also very conservative...Abortion could easily be outlawed in blue states like ours...

[Heddi]

23. What about the under-18's in Red STates that *CANNOT* vote

but will still be affected by abortion bans.

Pregnancy doesn't start happening once you turn 18

Pregnancy doesn't care who your parents voted for

You're willing to allow 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18 year olds to "hang out to dry"? "fuck 'em?" "They wanted this?" "let them suffer the dire consequences?"

Wow. Pretty harsh. Tell that to the 15 year old who is contemplating suicide because she can't get an abortion. I'm sure she'll appreciate your views towards her and her health, especially since she had NO say whatsoever in the laws, the lawmakers, or the politicians.

What about the people who don't WANT abortion overturned? Are we so blind as to just take the death of women as "oh well. Fuck 'em. They wanted it"? How entirely heartless.

Remind me what state you're from so that I can place all blame of your state SQUARELY on your shoulders, regardless of whether you approve of the laws or not. I mean, fuck you. let you hang out to dry. Mabye YOU need to wake up and start paying attention.

Although I shouldn't be surprised by this sentiment. It's been on DU for quite some time. Funny how the question is generally always asked by MEN, who generally haven't the same stake in the abortion debate as women do. Strange, eh?

So which of YOUR rights are you willing to give up? What lack of rights are YOU willing to die for? Are you willing to be hung out to dry for? Be willing to suck it up and suffer the dire consequences for?

"First they came for abortion
but I didn't speak out because I wasn't a woman, couldn't get pregnant, didn't know the fear of having a late period, didn't have to worry about multiple methods of contraception when using antibiotics, not having to worry about my contraceptive prescription being denied by a pharmacist, didn't have to worry about the health consequences of a pregnancy, didn't have to worry about placental abruption, didn't have to worry about PID, didn't have to worry about equal access to maternal health care, prenatal visits, head start, free lunches, financial aid...."

[ripple]

26. So, should other countries just say 'fuck us'?

After all, from their perspectives (probably most, anyway), WE elected Bush. Granted, many of us do not feel he was democratically elected, but the same could probably be said for some state races.

On a national scale, we are all fighting desperately to save our nation from the corruption of a political administration that we did not elect. To concede the red states to the right-wing fundies is essentially the same thing as conceding our nation to the criminals at the helm.

As a blue voter in a red state, I resent the premise of the question.

[SmokingJacket]

28. they didn't ALL vote for him, for cripes sake!

Not even in Utah!

[Sparkly]

29. But it doesn't stop at those states.

They want it to go to the USSC, and if Roe is struck down, it affects all states.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. 100% Neocon Mentality, No Offense.

Or maybe some offense, I dunno.

But it's every bit as bad as killing the neighbor in iraq to get the so called terrorist next door too. Faulty selfish logic. It's no better than blaming katrina victims for living in new orleans to begin with, or a rape victim for wearing something provocative. All things that are just rooted in faulty selfish absurd logic.