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themaguffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:46 PM
Original message
N.C. celebrates confederate flag
N.C. celebrates confederate flag
Mar. 5, 2006 at 9:04PM
North Carolina marks Confederate Flag Day with a salute to the flag and the heritage many defenders of the flag say it represents.
Not everyone wants the heritage to be remembered as something to be proud of, though.
The Charlotte News & Observer reports hundreds crowded the state House chamber Saturday, sang "Dixie" and saluted the flag -- along with a Civil War-era state flag and the current U.S. flag.
The event -- which the newspaper described as all-white -- was sponsored by the N.C. Division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
Many Americans, black and white, see a link between the confederate flag and a pro-slavery, Jim Crow, white supremacy attitude, the newspaper said, but the flag is still honored in the south.
University of South Carolina history professor Clyde Wilson said the response to the confederate flag is only a mask for a hatred for the South.
-----------


I e-mailed the idiot "professor" at SC:

clyde-wilson@sc.edu

What an ass.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. This yankee sees ghettos as a symbol of white supremacy
and would rather see a hundred stars and bars then one more ghetto. The War Between the States occurred for many reasons. I would be proud to display the flag if my ancestors had fought for (our) independence in that war.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. the north flies that flag proudly. nt.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. No ghettos in Mississippi or Georgia?
The flag represents treason against the USA. I do not support it or any that do.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. treason is not allowing folks to leave a gang when they want to leave.
Is the USA like a group of friends, united together, under God? Or is it a thug like syndicate that you leave when you die?

I think that union members should be able to come and go as they please. I think that this war was fought over states rights.

The USA was born in treason to the UK crown.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Awww snap!
That "treason to the crown" is hard to refute.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Yes but since we gained our Independence it doesn't matter
If the South would have won then they could stand on the same ground as the US does with England. They did not and so they are considered Treasonous. It was about Slavery and your use of State's Rights is just a cover up for bigotry. The whole issue of State's Rights revolved around slavery. I would not want to associate myself with that sort of "heritage".:shrug:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
48. I think that there was a very strong racist movement in the north
and that the northern heritage of which I am a part of is equally rooted in disturbing situations. Part of my family (my paternal grandmothers side) has been here in America since the revolution. My heritage includes ancestors that betrayed "the white man" by living with the indians, and later betraying the indians by reneging on a deal, murder, and occupying stolen land, then selling this land for profit. No heritage is pure and noble.

Does it surprise you that Southerns supported the Confederacy and opposed slavery?

I abstain from really taking part in this argument (in real life, with southerners), as I feel it is a southern issue, to be dealt with by southerners.

All American civilization is built on the destruction of indigenous peoples. We must honor our heritage, but recognize our atrocities.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. sho'nuff
:kick:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. Think you missed the point.
The point is no more ghettos ANYWHERE.

That poster would rather see pieces of cloth flying than any more REAL rascism in the forms of ghettos - anywhere. The flag is just a piece of cloth, but poverty is a real existance.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Conservatives" in Mississippi love their flag
Edited on Mon Mar-06-06 01:52 PM by BOSSHOG
which is part salute to the confederacy. Many Mississipians also sport license plates and bumper stickers proudly stating "Heritage not Hate." Isn't that a perky slogan right out of a republican think tank? Like clear skies initiative and leave no children behind. The trickiest state flag of all is the Arkansas flag which carefully incorporates the confederate flag but its totally invisible. Its like hiding something on the front page of the paper. I would post a picture of it if I knew how.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I would like to see the Arkansas flag
some DU'er has a link. Holla!
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. adding an image is pretty easy
Just put the url in your post, and if it ends in jpg or gif (and maybe others?) the image appears. Nice trick with the flag:

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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks very much for the schooling
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I'm sort of curious as to the significance of the arrangement of
the 4 big stars inside the diamond, but not enough to google it up. Any idea what that's supposed to mean? Coming from Virginia, that flag looks sort of cheesey to me.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Here's an explanation. n/t
Edited on Mon Mar-06-06 02:39 PM by in_cog_ni_to
A diamond on a red field represents the only place in North America where diamonds have been discovered and mined. The twenty-five white stars around the diamond mean that Arkansas was the twenty-fifth state to join the Union. The top of four stars in the center represents that Arkansas was a member of the Confederate States during the Civil War. The other three stars represent Spain, France and the United States, countries that had earlier ruled the land that includes Arkansas.
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Thanks much!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. ditto
and thanks for the flag pic...
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Here's a pic for you!


A diamond on a red field represents the only place in North America where diamonds have been discovered and mined. The twenty-five white stars around the diamond mean that Arkansas was the twenty-fifth state to join the Union. The top of four stars in the center represents that Arkansas was a member of the Confederate States during the Civil War. The other three stars represent Spain, France and the United States, countries that had earlier ruled the land that includes Arkansas.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. IMO...Confederate Flags should not be flown...
Over Government institutions. In every one of these places a significant portion of the population finds the confederate flag a repugnant symbol. Made even more so by its adoption in the 50's and 60's as a symbol of anti-civil rights supporters in the south.

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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. agreed
but we must not vilify the heritage of the south, of the confederacy, imho.:kick:
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Let's all get together and salute the losing side's flag
Then we can raise our RC Colas in tribute to the president of that failed nation who was captured while wearing a dress.

TlalocW
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I love royal crown cola
:kick:
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. And just to be totally stereotypical...
Do you eat Moon Pies with it? :)

TlalocW
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yep, gotta celebrate those good ol' traditions
Of slavery, bigotry, treason and hate! Keep fannin' those flames boys, keep Americans hating each other so much that they will continue to ignore who's really screwing them.

Geez, what ever happened to Love Thy Neighbor?:eyes:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
43. I don't know - you tell me.
Edited on Wed Mar-08-06 07:10 AM by Clark2008
Not ALL of the South was EVER like that, yet, in your broad-brush statement, you believe anyone who salutes their heritage is pro-slavery or something. People in the US salute the US flag, too, and it's certainly not without sin (or the sin of what it represents). Do you call all of them torturers or Native American killers?

I think, judging by some of the remarks on this board regarding the South, that the professor may have a point when he says that hatred of the Confederate flag (a piece of fucking CLOTH) is used as a mask to hate all of the South. I realize the professor probably is a racist, based on his other actions, but, in this case, even a stopped clock is correct two times a day.

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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. "NC Celebrates Confederate Flag"...WTF
:wtf:

There are eight and a half million people in North Carolina. Your headline is very misleading. It should read:

"NC Confederate Sons sponsor Confederate Flag celebration"

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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. THANK you, marions ghost.
Thank you. The misleading title is only going to throw the fuel on us "red staters" because of where we live.
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NewWaveChick1981 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Yep, SugarSmack, kind of like when...
Jesse Helms was in the Senate, and just because we live in NC, everyone thought we were "Jesse Helms Republicans." Screw that---I never voted for the idiot, and I resented being labeled a Helms lover. :puke: Same goes for the Confederate flag nonsense.
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themaguffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. yet they still celebrate...
in NC and in many Southern states. In GA, the previous Gov (Barnes) got into controversy for changing the state flag. I


t's over. It's history and that's where it should remain.

This is ridiculous.

The South's population has grown steadily and rapidly over the past few decades and we are generations removed from the Civil War. Yet the Southerners that still cling onto this, are getting their way. 8+ million in NC - Let your voices be heard. End this nonsense. Same with GA. Same with MS and everywhere else.

Can't we be Americans for once and not Southerners first?
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. you missed the point ....
Edited on Mon Mar-06-06 07:54 PM by marions ghost
You implied that a large number of people in North Carolina supported this celebration of the confederate flag. That's just not true and you know it. It was a group of the usual Sons of the Confederacy zealots, hardly representative of the state or the South. But you want to argue Blue-Red /North-South stereotypes, so it served your purpose to present it like that. I can tell you only deal in Us vs. Them perspectives. You need to work on your own self. Go look for some Red Folks in your OWN backyard--you'll find them. Change their heads IF you can. That would be a real American perspective, instead of just sitting back and dissing the South. You're the one who's stuck in the Civil War era.

People like you make me say I am a Southerner first, and then an American. Exactly the opposite reaction. You might want to ask yourself, what approach works better to unite, rather than divide?
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themaguffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. I didn't imply shit
I simply pasted the headline. Blame the newswire. Yeah I could have rethought that, but I was pissed frankly at thos eassholes and what the dumbass professor had to say. I have no patience for that shit.

I call the South as I see it from my experiences. I LIVE in the South and have for many, many years. I don't say that someone is a Southerner first, American second - I am saying that is *their* prespective. These people need to grow up.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Bullshit. I live in NC.
And I can honestly say that the majority here do support that flag. I've lived here my whole life. I know the truth. How do you figure that that other poster is stuck in the Civil War era? Who exactly is flying the confederate Civil War era flag? Seriously, give it up already. The poster was just saying that we need to be American citizens first and worry about splitting hairs over north and south AFTER we solve a few modern day issues. I don't see a problem with their post.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
46. They support the HERITAGE of the flag - not slavery
Edited on Wed Mar-08-06 07:20 AM by Clark2008
And - let me tell you - if Northerners would STOP bitching about it, it would have gone away. It's become a "pride" issue. Southerners, if you are indeed one you'd know this, don't want people coming in and telling us what to do. It's just the way we are.

I don't support slavery, but I don't like being told what to do, either. It's a stubbornness and not a racist issue, if you honestly boil it down.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. Exactly.
See my post below.

No one I know celebrates these Confederate Flag or Robert E. Lee "holidays." They're "holidays" in name ONLY.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:07 PM
Original message
double post. nt
Edited on Mon Mar-06-06 02:07 PM by Marie26
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Confederate Flag Day"?
I had no idea there's such a thing. & I'm in NC. It's dissapointing to see there's still so much support for the Conf. flag here.
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NewWaveChick1981 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Same here.
There are some rural areas I've visited in the past few years that have houses with the Confederate flag outside, but that's been the extent of what I've seen. I don't ever recall Confederate Flag Day being celebrated before.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Starting to doubt this story
Edited on Mon Mar-06-06 04:35 PM by Marie26
There's no link at all for the story. I looked at the Charlotte Observer site, & there's no mention of this story. There's barely any mention of a "Conf. flag day" & those cites all list the day as occuring much later in the month. Unless there's a link, or some more corraboration, I'm thinking this might be BS. Why wasn't this reported in Raleigh papers, where the rally apparantly took place? It's sketchy.
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Thtwudbeme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I have lived here for the better part of 42 years
In the past two years, I can count the number of those flags I have seen on 3 fingers.

I live in a redneck, viciously racist town....

The support's not there; it's a few jerks gathering in Charlotte.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. We only salute one flag, that's what I like about the North. n/t
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. I see frigging pickup trucks with that damned flag in Seattle!
It's not only the Confederate states that have morons among the general population, after all.

As for me, my family wasn't even in this country during that war. I would say we didn't have a dog in that particular fight, but I do find it curious that a battle flag used during war against National troops - in other words, a symbol of treason - is permitted on official state flags, literature, etc. But flying the rebel flag to annoy others is certainly not limited to Secessionists.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. What is that? Lose a War Day? Ancestors Had Slaves Day?
Failed Economy Day? Arg.

I'm a Southern Gal myself and I promise you there are many many MANY ways to celebrate Southern heritage without invoking the Confederate flag. Even if we were to lie to ourselves by saying that flag does not symbolize slavery, what else does it symbolize? The Civil War, death, broken families, hunger, poverty, a nation divided...anything good? Anything?

Using the Confederate flag to symbolize Southern heritage is as ridiculous as using a picture of a broken levee to symbolize New Orleans. I, for one, will not hang on to a symbol that represents nothing but pain and suffering to define me, my family and friends.

Southerners deserves better than the Confederate flag.

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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Well said.
I like your way of looking at things much better than the way many of my other fellow southerners look at it. We do deserve better. Those flag waving people need to take the blinders off and do something about the poverty, racism, and other MAJOR problems here.
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. Probably the Stars and Bars, not the "battle" flag (racist)
They do fly the Confederate States of America national
flag on the NC capitol grounds a couple of times a year.
I believe they use the first flag design, the "Stars and Bars",
not to be confused with the widely displayed "battle" flag which
never an "official" flag of the Confederacy. There was a later
CSA design that incorporated a small battle flag on large white
background (later adding a single red stripe).

NC was one of the last states to join the CSA, well after all
its neighbors. The state was nearly split evenly, with the vote
to secede winning by only a few hundred votes.

Once in, NC was entirely responsible for raising, arming, and supplying
its troops for the Confederacy. At that point, most of those enlisting
probably viewed their first duty was to their State, not the CSA nor the USA.
NC provided a high proportion of the South's troops and suffered the greatest
casualties. (The generals were mostly from VA and SC often sent the NC units
into the worst of the battles, holding back their own troops.
(A recent book explored a lot of this.)

One thing to remember about the South is that, if your family were here before
World War II, they were probably here well before 1860 and probably before
1776. This means that nearly every family had casualties, both deaths and
an enormous number of amputees. As an example, while I am 57, three of my
great-grandfathers fought, and my grandparents were born just after the war
(e.g. grandmother in 1869). So all of this is still quite fresh in the
oral histories of families. And families often stayed in the same
location for generations. (I have inherited property in our family since
early 1700's.)

There were also a significant number of Tarheels (particularly from the
mountains) who enlisted in the Union Army.

This whole subject is so complicated and convoluted that it is nearly
impossible to fully comprehend in oneself, much less try to sort through
the misinformation, myth, prejudice, etc. found on all sides. When you
learn just unbelieveable the facts often are, you start to understand why
history books simplified and demonized (slavery, "states rights").

For example, how do you deal with:

While most blacks arrived here as slaves, many whites arrived as
indentured (nearly slaves, but for a fixed period) or were
brought from prisons, often because they could not pay their debts.

There were a significant number of free blacks in NC, particularly
in the trades and in shipping. A few of these free blacks were
themselves slave owners.

Most of the CSA soldiers from NC were not slaveholders. They were
typically yeoman farmers and fishermen.

There were free blacks who joined CSA army and they served in
the same units as whites. Blacks served in separate, segregated units
in the Union Army. It is a big surprise to our clueless redneck
brethern(?!) when they realize that a black can be a member of
the UDC and similar groups qualifying through a _black_ ancestor.

The relatively large Jewish population in the South actively supported
the CSA and served in its army.

At least one of the CSA generals was a Quaker -- a couple of stories there.


So here I am, one of those Chapel Hill liberals, and even I can't adequately
explain what it means.

So please try to understand that the Stars and Bars can be a symbol of respect
for ones ancestors and their sacrifices in a war they might not have
personally favored and might have even voted against.

The battle flag has become so tarnished by its continued use as a symbol of
the worst of racisim and bigotry over the last 50 years, I doubt it will ever
have a different meaning.


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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Thanks for trying to explain
the background of the war from a neutral perspective. I had relatives who fought in the war--one for the Union from NC and one for the Confederacy from VA. They were cousins and their families, believe it or not, remained close AFTER the war. You also mentioned the Jewish contribution to the war--although most of my family was Scottish, there is a Jewish connection dating way back. The South was more multicultural than we realize.

The confederate flag has been made into a symbol of hate. There's not much anybody can do about that fact. And therefore NO thinking person in the South displays it...proudly or otherwise. But this flag "debate" is also used to paint all Southerners as closet racists and stir up trouble between "red staters" and "blue staters." --which is my objection to the OP's perspective. The OP's perspective isn't about the confederate flag--this is about people looking for scapegoats for their own frustration. Let's look at the history of the REST of America--there are a lot of skeletons in that closet. If the OP wants me to act like an American "first"--then treat me like a PURPLE American--without accusations and
hostility.

Anyway, thanks for your voice of reason in explaining something of the history.
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. You are welcome -- interesting about your family
By the NC left the Union, it was faced either mustering troops for the Union (to fight SC and VA) or to also secede. Really sad all around. Another example of the extremist on both sides dragging everyone else into a war where leaders on each side expected a quick victory and most everyone else wanted to be left alone and in peace.

The large Scottish descendant population in NC were particularly irritated when occupied by largely Irish Union Army units from Ohio and elsewhere. About 10% of the Union Army were Irish, mostly recent immigrants. Scots and English could agree on little except for their low opinion of the Irish.

Being aware of just how complicated US history and politics are and how difficult it is to examine the many cross-currents pulling at us, individually and collectively, it should be obvious that it is nearly impossible for us to have any idea what is really going on elsewhere such as Iraq. From my view from NC, I have only a minimal understanding of even VA and SC politics.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
38. Clyde Wilson is a leader in the racist neo-confederate movement.
FYI: Clyde Wilson (quoted in the article) is one of the "idea men" behind the racist neo-confederate movement. A real piece of work...

http://tinyurl.com/mfayo

or URL in original length..

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=846#9
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
39. States Rights my ass...
I save the following info for whenever somebody tries to pull up the old "it was state rights not slavery" argument, When the Southern states tried to secede they issued their own declaration of independence. Surprise, surprise, guess what was the main reason most of them mentioned? SLAVERY and how the free states were trying to suppress the poor southern states rights to own other humans. Plus the CSA Constiutution specifically protected the "right" to own slaves, and CSA Veep Stephens said that the war was over slavery, and that the idea that all men were created equal was "an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the 'storm came and the wind blew.'"


Here are what some of the specific states said...

Mississippi

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/missec.htm
It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.
It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.
It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.
It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.
It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.
It has enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice.
It has made combinations and formed associations to carry out its schemes of emancipation in the States and wherever else slavery exists.
It seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better.

South Carolina
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/scarsec.htm
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

Georgia
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/geosec.htm
Northern anti-slavery men of all parties asserted the right to exclude slavery from the territory by Congressional legislation and demanded the prompt and efficient exercise of this power to that end. This insulting and unconstitutional demand was met with great moderation and firmness by the South. We had shed our blood and paid our money for its acquisition; we demanded a division of it on the line of the Missouri restriction or an equal participation in the whole of it. These propositions were refused, the agitation became general, and the public danger was great. The case of the South was impregnable.

The Presidential election of 1852 resulted in the total overthrow of the advocates of restriction and their party friends. Immediately after this result the anti-slavery portion of the defeated party resolved to unite all the elements in the North opposed to slavery an to stake their future political fortunes upon their hostility to slavery everywhere. This is the party two whom the people of the North have committed the Government. They raised their standard in 1856 and were barely defeated. They entered the Presidential contest again in 1860 and succeeded.
The prohibition of slavery in the Territories, hostility to it everywhere, the equality of the black and white races, disregard of all constitutional guarantees it its favor, were boldly proclaimed by its leaders and applauded by its followers.
With these principles on their banners and these utterances on their lips the majority of the people of the North demand that we shall receive them as our rulers.
The prohibition of slavery in the Territories is the cardinal principle of this organization.

Texas
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/texsec.htm
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?
The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate the amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holding States in their domestic institutions-- a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.
In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.


the following are from.. http://www.americancivilwar.info/pages/ordinances_secession.asp


Alabama

Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the constitution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and menacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security, therefore:

And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States,


Virginia

The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:


The other Southern states, including Florida, North Carolina and Arkansas pretty much said “we’re outta here” and mentioned the election of Lincoln.


Section 9.4 of the CSA Constitution…

(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

From the “Cornerstone Speech” delivered by CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, March 21, 1861.

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/corner.html
But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other -- though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.{emphasis added} Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."


and last but not least, a good Civil War quiz… http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/e/mebuckner/civwarquiz.htm

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
41. Here's some NC Civil War history to be celebrated
But I'm sure NC has no official day to celebrate these men!

http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncusct/usct.htm
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
44. And I'm betting those 100 are the only people in the state
who really paid attention to this non-funded "holiday" in which no one gets a day off work.

:eyes:

Whoopee.

Apparently, many Southern states also "celebrate" Robert E. Lee Day on MLK Day (their birthdays are near one another), yet I've never ONCE seen a celebration, of any sort, for Robert E. Lee Day. It's a "holiday" in name only - like this little Confederate Flag "holiday." Don't assume what you read is representative of the whole.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. In many states they are recognized STATE public holidays
Days such as "Confederate Day" "Robert E. Lee Day" and "Jefferson Davis' Birthday" are official state public holidays throughout the South. http://www.washingtondc.worldweb.com/TravelEssentials/HolidayInformation/8-145359.html
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Confederate Memorial Day - May 10
Why would there be a rally now?
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Not anywhere I've lived.
And Robert E. Lee Day is MLK Day, which is a NATIONAL holiday and state employees are off, anyway.
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