Am I still allowed to post at DU?

[SnoopDog]

Because, I don’t think I am a Democrat. And I know there are rules about that.

You see, I cannot imagine *any* real Democrat voting for the Patriot Act. Indeed, some did vote against the Patriot Act – ten real Americans I guess. But most did vote for it.

I thought all Senators and Congressmen/women swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. To vote affirmative for a Bill that directly violates the Constitution is indeed a violation of the Constitution. Moreover, this is a traitorous act.

And, I guess I am not an American either. The Constitution is the law of the land – it has been this way for over 200 years. And 89 Senators, Republicans and Democrats, voted for the Patriot Act.

And no true American would ever vote for a bill that violates the Constitution.

Is there a FDR/JFK DemocratUnderground.com? Because that is the type of Democrat I am, or better, the type of human I am.

[MadMaddie]

1. Why don't they stand up and fight....?

I just don't get it....

[hang a left]

2. IMO and my mindset at this time

There is only one party in this country right now...The Facist Party.

[Disturbed]

10. There is no requirement to be a Democrat here on DU.

I am a member of the Green Party. No I didn't vote for Nadar either times. I actually voted for A.Gore and then J. Kerry. I vote for Green Candidates on a local level and for House and Senate.

[joemurphy]

They're all afraid of being "soft" on terrorism. Pathetic.

Like our "Profiles in Courage" that voted for Alito.

[electropop]

33. Anthrax my friend, Anthrax.

Just like the first time around with the PieceOShit Act. Can you think of somebody with medical knowledge, access to Federal facilities, and the desire to ram through this unspeakable act? Need a hint? This guy's medical skills are so amazing, he can diagnose brain damage by teevee.

[SnoopDog]

34. We can fight fire with fire...

Beware the true American Patriot..

[LiberalUprising]

45. What is there to get?

The US is under one party rule:shrug:

[AlCzervik]

3. You're a democrat---they are not.

[SnoopDog]

Thanks, I guess I needed a little reaffirmation....

That I am still allowed here...

[TomInTib]

8. Well put. n/t

[kansasblue]

4. I feel your pain.......

I was so pissed the Dems didn't fight the election fraud, and those brave Greens fought so hard in Ohio and other states. It's tough. But hang in there. This is the place to be. Stay and help fix things best we can. Nobody is alway 100% happy with any party.

Stay with us Dog!

[sandnsea]

5. Is telephone wiretapping unConstitutional?

You know the kind of wiretapping that has been done for decades. Curious as to your thoughts on that, because 90% of the Patriot Act doesn't do anything more unConstitutional than that.

[Eric J in MN]

14. The FBI can write its own "Natioal Security Letters" to demand

any information it wants without a warrant, via the Patriot Act.

That is NOT the freedom from unreasonable searches mandated by the Constitution.

[SnoopDog]

15. That is a direct violation of the Bill of Rights....

You should read the Constitution - it is very moving!

[bananas]

22. Great reading if you're constipated!

Keep a copy in the bathroom next to the toilet.
(edit: that's supposed to be a joke on how "moving" it is)

[SnoopDog]

24. Ha....

In some circles, etiquette prevents these kinds of posts. But to each there own...

[sandnsea]

35. I asked about wiretapping, for starters

But in any event, those letters aren't new, they were created in the 1970s for espionage and terrorism investigations. In addition, that is one of the areas that has been changed, they've added judicial oversight. So no, it's not perfect and needs additional scrutiny, but it's not new. Just as telephone wiretapping isn't new, and extending some of those methods to cell phones and the internet aren't that big of a deal.

Point being, some people like to see themselves on the outside of government and will latch on to anything to further that view of themselves. The rest of us need to be careful to balance the rhetoric of the anarchists with the rhetoric of the fascists, and come up with the balanced legislatio we need to keep people safe. The Patriot Act still needs work, it's unfortunate the public wasn't able to hear those calling for it to be fixed because of the noise of the reactionaries and fascists.

[hippywife]

46. It never should have been enacted in the first place.

But thanx for the apologetics for the enablers in our own party.

[Eric J in MN]

47. An FBI agent being able to get a list of everyone you've ever

emailed, just by saying it's needed for an ongoing investigation, is no big deal?

Regarding National Security Letters, the supposed judicial oversight is that someone ordered to turn over information can eventually sue to be allowed to talk about it. The person whose privacy was violated doesn't know about it, in the meanwhile, and he or she is the one who is most affected.

[Clara T]

6. It's pretty basic stuff

9 Democrats and one independent had the courage to stand up to the Fascists. The rest sold the Constitution down the river. It's not too hard to see.

What they voted for was expanded wiretapping, surveillance and seizure powers. Is that the opposition?

You are in the surveillance nation now and may have been right from the start.

[Just Me]

7. You define yourself.

Period.

You still live in a relatively democratic nation *sigh* with mucho grande oppression and media manipulation. BUT,...

,...don't give up. Stay centered. There's a helluva' lot more folks who identify with OUR passion than that reflected on CM.

[UTUSN]

9. Eh, if you're a good human being, cut the crap n/t

[SnoopDog]

12. On the contrary,

Being a good human being is only half the battle. It is the team you side with and I side with FDR/JFK Democrats.

You need like minded people to succeed..

No crap about that - don't you know...and back at ya...

[Eric J in MN]

11. Let's not treat FDR as a civil liberties hero.

FDR establshed the Japanese internment camps in the western US, and got the Supreme Court to approve of trials by the US military of Nazis arrested in the US who should have been tried in civilian courts.

[SnoopDog]

13. I am not an expert but

I like the Social Security system and 3 terms of people wanting him says alot.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

18. I agree.

The guy was an optimist, a patriot, and brave.

And he helped the little guy get on his feet better than anyone ever had in this land. Before or since.

And yes, he made plenty of serious mistakes. BUT. My father's family, and thousands of other families, would have been scattered to the Dust Bowl winds, if in fact they even would've survived . . . without the New Deal.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

16. I don't understand why...

...even the most conservative Republican would consider voting for the Patriot Act, much less a Democrat voting for it---their homes can be entered without a warrant too---their phones can be tapped without a warrant too. Do they not understand this? It renders our Bill of Rights completely null and void and that's fuckin' ILLEGAL!!!

[stillcool]

17. whenever I find myself frustrated....

I find that reading about how we got here, goes a long way toward understanding the total fuckedupdedness of current events. While it may not bring any instant solution it sure goes a long way towards preserving my sanity. There really is method to the madness.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/7727/index.htm#Global
http://www.aliveness.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html
http://www.serendipity.li/cia.html

[radio4progressives]

38. wow...this is some resource material ..

i just read about Davos, and then an article on Vernon Jordan.

both mostly stuff i knew, but with a few vauge holes filled in.

will have to bookmark for later reading..

[stillcool]

42. no matter how many times I read about...

this shit...I never fully ingest the enormity, complexity, and lineage of it all. I am convinced that the answers are part of the problem...and addressing the symptoms of the problem is all we've been doing....or worse, debating fantasy.

[boobooday]

19. You ARE a Democrat

As we all are. Too bad so many of our leaders really aren't.

[Mythsaje]

20. I post here all the time...ask anyone...

I consider myself an Independent Populist Progressive. (IPP) :D

I generally vote Democratic, but that's because there are few, if any IPP candidates.

;)

[SnoopDog]

21. I guess I am really just a member of the Human party...

The one that survives, the one who respects the environment, the one who respects others, who contributes more than expected, and progresses with time, I hope.

[Nutmegger]

23. Some would say that you're attacking the "big tent"

Not me! :D

[SnoopDog]

25. I am not familiar with "big tent"..?

Please explain....

[Lorien]

26. Whenever someone claims a conservative position or endorses a (D)

who supports conservative positions, they and other DLCers claim that "the Democratic party is a big tent" in defense of holding such views or voting in a distinctly non-progressive manner.

[SnoopDog]

29. So, upholding the Constitution is against the 'big tent' stuff?

You violate the Constitution - you are, what I think, 'tearing down the Constitution'.

Why, all the sudden, the Constitution is not the rule of the land? It has worked quite nicely for over 200 years....

[Nutmegger]

31. To some, yes.

They will defend these sons of bitches who sold us down the river.

All about the "big tent". What happens when there's a fire? Are we all going to run out every which way or will we properly leave through the strategically placed fire escapes?

[Nutmegger]

27. Pretty much what Lorien said

It's the belief that the Dem Party is made up of all kinds of Dems (DLCers, Blue Dogs, etc).

If one criticizes one of these Dems, then that person is attacking the "big tent" philosophy.

My answer to that: PUH-LEASE!

[bananas]

28. Welcome to DU!

You should fit right in! Or close enough!

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[SnoopDog]

30. Well I have been here awhile...

But thanks for the welcome...

I just get confuse when big dawg Democrats in office, like the Senate and Congress, don;t vote like a Democrat.

I know, that 'tent' thing comes into play....

[mzmolly]

32. If you can abide by the rules in my sig line

yes

[LiberalUprising]

44. LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. I'm still wondering how they had the nerve to vote for it myself

We've not been holding their feet to the fire enough is the only reason I can come up with. If you want to see what happens when Democrats become complacent, look at Texas. If that's not enough to scare the living daylights out of someone then they're a republican.

The Patriot Act isn't a Democratic concept. Those in our party that voted for this turned their back on us, not the other way around. As far as I'm concerned we belong here and have a right to be VERY upset with those who supported this, no matter what party they are in.

[BigBearJohn]

37. What about the issue of the Constitution being ignored? I'm confused.

How can Congress pass an Act that bypasses the Constitution?
Aren't they supposed pass a constitutional amendment?
What piece am I missing?

[magellan]

39. 9/11. When "everything changed".

Including having to abide by the Constitution when the rights it protects present an obstacle to government desires...regardless of "good intentions".

I predict that the Dems who voted for the Patriot Act this time around are going to regret it deeply when they see what Bush** and Neocons do with it. Fix it later? Yeah...right.

[babsbunny]

40. I Think The Same things every day!

I am not a fan of The Democratic Party right now. I figure the Dino's will be punished for not doing what's best for America, and what they swore they would do. We The People will make sure of it!

[CrispyQ]

41. Democrats -- the opposing party that doesn't oppose.

Honestly, why did I send Ken Salazar money & put his sign in my yard? He hasn't voted much differently than Pete Coors would have. I'm sick of these DINOs calling themselves Democrats & running scared from the word liberal.

REAL PATRIOTS DON'T NEED AN ACT.

[MODemocrat]

43. Snoopdog, you're a real democrat

I must be too, because the senators and congressmen are really making me cringe. My loyalty to the constitution is unflappable, just as yours. There are a few in both parties who still live by the laws of the land, but mostly it's all about politics and polls with them now. It's really sad and frustrating for all of us who are true democrats. :thumbsup: :hi: